TIH Sequel changes?

[bubbadoom]

They need to give the Hulk a hair cut. I saw designs by Aaron Sims with more of the classic Kirby "bowl" cut and he looked 100% better! The more they make him look like the real Hulk, the Kirby/Ayers Hulk, the happier I would be!

 

[Gamma Goliath]

No I like the long hair, it never made sense to me when banner has the longish hair and hulk had a bowl cut, I love the mike deodato jr. Design.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I'd have to agree, I thought the long hair look in TIH looked superb on the Hulk, hope they keep that for Avengers or any other movie he turns up in.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Actually, the couch, with Talbot on it went through the window, not the wall, then Hulk smashed the wall, there was no intent in trying to kill him, just teach him a lesson and incapacitate the soldiers, when Talbot hit the one soldier, neither of them flew off in any direction very far at all, Blonsky was flung god knows how far and would have gone further if not for the tree.

He was trying to teach him a lesson?....................Ok. How's this

When the Hulk kicked Blonsky he was just trying to teach him a lesson as well. You see, the Hulk did ask him in the factory to "Leave me alone" and when Blonsky was all in his face saying, "remember me" and "is that all you got" the Hulk was saying "no that's not all I got." So he kicked him, knowing that he wouldn't die because the Hulk could sense the SSS in him and knew that the tree Blonsky would roll into was a Soft Ash and would give a little when he rolled into it. So I guess in both cases, the Hulk was just trying to teach a lesson. SHEEEEESH!!!!

I'm talking the university scene, Blonsky wasnt killing people and wouldnt have survived without the serum, which hulk didnt know he had taken.

Even in the end fight though, Hulk incapacitated him without killing him, but only Betty stopped Hulk killing him.

But don't you see, the Hulk knows that Abomy will be back and more people will get hurt so he was just trying to save others from being killed. Now, because of Betty, 100's more will die at the hands of Abomy. Thanks a lot Betty.

^I'd have to agree, I thought the long hair look in TIH looked superb on the Hulk, hope they keep that for Avengers or any other movie he turns up in.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa we agree on something.

 

[Kirmit]

But Talbot couldnt have been killed, neither was the other soldier, because he wasnt thrown with enough force, Hulk just wanted to incapacitate them.



See my response to CJ, Abom was incapacitated and Hulk still tried to kill him, so in a way he was reasoned with, he was beaten into submission. This wouldnt happen with the dogs as they are mindless, and cant be reasoned with, big difference there.

Talbott couldn't of been killed? I watched it only last night, he was definately thrown hard enough that if he hit his head it would've crackd his skull, hulk didn't exactly place him gently on the floor. Besides Talbott was already incapacitated, he was laying on the floor, Hulk went out of his way to throw him.

Abomb was incapacitated yeah, so why didn't the hulk do the thing with the dogs? Simply incapacitate them, knock them on the head or choke them out like what happened to abomb, he just opted for an outright kill. There is no difference between the mindless dogs and abomb, neither one would stop their rampage and neither one could've been reasoned with, TIH opted for a choke out though whereas hulk opted for ripping them apart.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Poor puppy dogs just wanted to be loved

 

[Gamma Goliath]

They were looking for love in all the wrong places, I think hulk was trying to kill abomy knowing that was the only way he could truely be stopped.

 

[El Payaso]

Hulk definitely isn't innocent but it's supposed to be that "werewolf complex" where he can't control his anger.

Anger doesn’t equal killing necessarily.

That's the whole issue with the Hulk is controlling that inner monster in himself.

Again, moster doesn’t equal killer necessarily.

If I was that angry and people were trying to hurt me/mortally wound me and I had the power to fight back...you better f***ing believe it I'd fight back.

And luckily you’re not Hulk or the Army would have valid reasons to relentlessly chase you. And you wouldn’t be a heroic monster as Hulk is.

I guess I'm the only one that doesn't really get bothered by his murder? I think it only makes sense to show Bruce what he has become which makes it even more important to control himself for the sequel.

It is the potential danger people around him are in, not the certain danger that he could kill him on purpose as a reaction.

C'mon its Hollywood, how could you make a movie about a guy that becomes a monster due to his anger issues and not have him kill anybody?

Apparently it is possible. Any previous incarnation has been able to do it.

It makes no sense for him to run from every battle when his mind is going postal because everyone is chasing him.

It makes perfect sense as he has always claimed that “Hulk only wants to be left alone.” Hulk is angry at them but his main goal is not to fight but to be left alone.

I think it is more dramatic, more for cinema and creates more of an issue everytime Bruce looks in the mirror.

And it’s out of character all the same.

As I have said, I don't consider it murder, just collateral damage.

Tell that to the soldiers’ families.

Self- defense, not murder.

Self-defense against bullets that can’t hurt him?

Because he's the Hulk. It's not part of him.

Like Dchulk said I don't consider it murder, just collateral damage. I have less a problem with collateral damage than I do with outright murder. The Hulk would not deliberately kill.

But he did when he kicked a human being against a tree. Don’t come to me and say Hulk ignores puny humans are puny (“of inferior size, strength or significance&#8221.

What about killing an enemy, like the Abomination?

Would it have been out of character if Hulk did kill Abomination in TIH?

Well, he was about to kill him too. Betty stopped him. I guess if she thought killing Abom (a dangerous killing monster) was wrong, she would have been of a similar mind about human soldiers.

But killing humans is absolutely out of character for the Hulk.

Yeah this ongoing argument is getting annoying,

Luckily for you, nobody can force you to read or participate in it.

I pretty sure captain America has killed lots of people, and thor probably has as well.

I think I already refered to the "sure, I killed but he killed more" kind of defense/justification.

In this next movie it would be neat to see if he can gain some control.

Which is exactly my point in this thread.

 

[El Payaso]

I'm going to use the same argument that EP has made regarding the super soldier serum of Blonsky: the Hulk wouldn't have known if it would explode or not. He still threw the missle.

Throwing a missile to the tail of a helicopter instead of the cockpit is the equivalent of shooting a man in the leg instead of the torso. You want him to be hurt but not killed.

Hulk is an engine of destruction what do you people expect, but he isn't a murderer.

I expect he destroys things, not kill people. Hulk’s not any ‘engine of destruction’ he’s a specific character.

Now either Jamon or El Payaso said that Hulk in Ang's film wouldn't attack if you didn't attack him. So if you left him alone then he would do nothing to you.

Well what about when Hulk came outta the ground in San Francisco and then he picked up that chunk of concrete and was about to throw it at the helicopter but then he saw Betty was inside it so he didn't throw the concrete at the helicopter. So this shows that if Betty wasn't inside the helicopter then Hulk would have attacked it for no reason. He wanted to harm the people inside the helicopter.

First of all, it was the helicopters who were attacking him and buried him under a mountain. So it’s not like they didn’t do anything to him first. Your example fails.

Second, we didn’t see what Hulk did to the helicopter since, as you say, he did nothing to it. So if you’re implying he weas aboput to kill people that’s only your personal speculation. When I say he killed people in TIH, it is not speculation; it actually happened in the movie, see the difference?

And of course he wanted to harm people inside of the helicopter. But not kill them; that’s the thing.

He wasn't a murderer, but you gotta admit blonsky had it coming,

Many humans had it coming by the way they chase the Hulk without a break. But Hulk doesn’t kill them because of that.

Ross and his men ruthlessly chased a BEAST(what happens when you corner a dangerous animal ?) who had wronged no one.

Before the killing. After that, they’re completely entitled to chase the Hulk as a dangerous creature able to kill. After the killing it’s the Army’s legitimate duty to ansure people’s safety.

But even if he didn’t kill before they started to chase him, it is out of character for the Hulk to kill.

Blonsky attacked hulk first, hulk was just getting even,

You call being invulnerable to bullets and being almost dead, even?

and most of the other soldiers didn't die in the movie, if you look closely they all narrowly escape(except for the ones on the helicopter, but hulk was defending himself and Betty.)

Of course many escaped alive. It is the cases where they were killed as a direct consequence of Hulk’s action what concerns me.

And Hulk was already defending Betty when he covered her with his body. Killing the soldiers was unnecessary to keep Betty alive.

If anything Hulk exposed her to a bigger danger by having her in the middle of the helicopter’s crash and the subsequent fireball.

Even in the comics(remember WWH:Incredble hulk 110 ) it was made 100% clear that hulk can't really intentionally kill, but that's the comics.

The comics and every previous incarnation, which have always made sure that Hulk doesn’t kill so the concept of a misundewrstood violent but misunderstood monster is the center of the story.

I don't think it was implied that he was trying to kill blonsky, I don't think hulk was thinking "kill" when he kicked blonsky.

I have to ask what could he be possibly thinking when he kicked a human being o hard he was literally pulverized against a tree.

 

[El Payaso]

If people are going to use the blonsky kick as an example of why TIH is a killer then we should be able to use the scene in Hulk when hulk throws Talbott around like a rag doll at the house as an example of why Ang's hulk is a killer.

So you say Ang Lee’s Hulk is a killer because he threw away a man that... didn’t die???

*raises hand*

dcHulk: I know, I know.

Kirmit: Yes, dcHulk...

dcHulk: Because the Hulk didn't throw him hard enough!

Can’t argue when you speak the truth.

Another point in question is how you define a killer, remember the dog fight in 'Hulk', Hulk killed the dogs, infact in a rather savage manner, ripping them in half.

I don’t recall that those dogs were humans, but animal monsters. And thje reason why the "exploded" was that they were "unstable," as David Banner explained later.

Another good point. I'm surprised PETA didn't jump on that one.

I don’t know about PETA being worried about gamma irradiated monster-dogs.

The power is not the matter at hand, talbott was still thrown in a way that he could've been killed, therefore does that not make Ang's Hulk a killer?

Exactl m,y friend. If the man’s not death then he’s not killed. Hulk is not a killer unless he kills, does that make sense?

Especially when you consider Hulk had already roughed Talbott up and he was just laying on the floor, Hulk went out of his way to throw talbott.

But he didn’t die right?

Abomination couldn't be reasoned with, infact he would be considered worse since he knew what he was doing, he had full intent, whereas the dogs were only doing as they were trained. Both were attacking hulk, Norton Hulk wanted to kill Abomb, Ang Hulk did kill the dogs therefore they should be considered just as much killers as one another.

Yet Leterrier shopwed us that Hulk shpouldn’t kill Abomination so he had us Betty preventing this to happen. Which emphasizes the fact that, previous to this point, he was a killer (and only learnt not to be one because of Betty). And that destroys what the Hulk is in his essence. He doesn’t kill, not because Betty tells him so, but because it’s not in his nature.

No but geting thrown threw a wall and then geting the Hulks foot in your back and pushed threw a railing into the street and then geting picked up and thrown like a rage doll is kind of, I don't know..........................what would you call it..................................Excessive!

Excessive, yeah. But not killing.

It's the intent Jamon.

In Fact, it is the actual result of his actions.

And clearly tossing around Talbot like that he was trying to A) Help him find his cell Phone, B) Let him know that there's a blue light special at K-Mart or C) trying to kill him.

D) Getting rid of him harming him but not killing him; what actually happened.

Blonsky was no longer human at that point and was killing people. Where's the difference?

Hulk didn’t know he was something else than human.

 

[Cracker Jack]

The comics and every previous incarnation, which have always made sure that Hulk doesn’t kill so the concept of a misundewrstood violent but misunderstood monster is the center of the story.

I think you might want to think that over again EP. The Hulk has killed, foes, before. And the Hulk has also been angered to the point to where HE thought he had killed his foe. So I think we are trying to romanticize our hero to much. We think he would never kill and we are right and wrong. He wont murder someone in cold blood or beat someone to death who only needs to be knocked out. But when push comes to shove the Hulk has and will kill to A) Prove he's the Strongest One there is. B) Portect Betty, Jarella, Rick, Cracker Jack, his friends C) save his own life.

Here we go round round round. Run Run around round round.....

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

He was trying to teach him a lesson?....................Ok. How's this

When the Hulk kicked Blonsky he was just trying to teach him a lesson as well. You see, the Hulk did ask him in the factory to "Leave me alone" and when Blonsky was all in his face saying, "remember me" and "is that all you got" the Hulk was saying "no that's not all I got." So he kicked him, knowing that he wouldn't die because the Hulk could sense the SSS in him and knew that the tree Blonsky would roll into was a Soft Ash and would give a little when he rolled into it. So I guess in both cases, the Hulk was just trying to teach a lesson. SHEEEEESH!!!!

Sorry, but trying to cut a guy in half with metal sheets bigger than him and then kicking him with MUCH more velocity than Hulk threw Talbot are not the same. TIHulk intended to kill blonsky, hell he even threw the bully in the factory with more velocity than Hulk threw Talbot. Sorry, but its just not the same to me CJ.

But don't you see, the Hulk knows that Abomy will be back and more people will get hurt so he was just trying to save others from being killed. Now, because of Betty, 100's more will die at the hands of Abomy. Thanks a lot Betty.

If Hulk knew this, he wouldnt have listened to Betty, and would have killed Abom, the fact that he stopped when Betty shouted indicates to me he wasnt thinking about people Abom could 'potentially kill.'

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa we agree on something.

Yay t:.

Talbott couldn't of been killed? I watched it only last night, he was definately thrown hard enough that if he hit his head it would've crackd his skull, hulk didn't exactly place him gently on the floor. Besides Talbott was already incapacitated, he was laying on the floor, Hulk went out of his way to throw him.

Talbot was incapacitated but the other soldier wasnt, he threw Talbot at the Soldier rather than something hard that would both of them. As I said above, TIHulk threw the brazilian bully in the factory a lot harder than Hulk threw Talbot.

Abomb was incapacitated yeah, so why didn't the hulk do the thing with the dogs? Simply incapacitate them, knock them on the head or choke them out like what happened to abomb, he just opted for an outright kill. There is no difference between the mindless dogs and abomb, neither one would stop their rampage and neither one could've been reasoned with, TIH opted for a choke out though whereas hulk opted for ripping them apart.

There is a huge difference, what are you more likely to be able to negotiate with, a crazed human or a crazed Lion? The dogs were mindless, Abomb wasnt, and as David Banner said the dogs were unstable, so they were dying anyway, Hulk tried to beat them into submission, it didnt work, so he had no choice left but to kill them.




Also, El Payaso, superbly answered to these queries.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Jamon I was being facetious.

 

[Kirmit]

El Payaso, you say Hulk isn't a killer because Talbott didn't die yet you say TIH is a killer, was it actually ever stated in TIH that anyone died?

Jamon, Abomb may not of been mindless but neither could he be negotiated with, he would not have stopped, exactly like the dogs.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I was watching sm2 and I saw how spidey stopped the train in that movie, I wondered how would the hulk stop something like maybe a coal train from going into a dead end.
I'd have him run face to face with the train and have a head on collision with it and act as a break on the front of the train. It would be a great way to show exactly how strong the hulk is, a great way of showing heroism and his feats of strengh.
But of course we all know hulk would be blamed for it and later accused of being a murderer, even though no one died.

 

[Sarg92]

El Payaso, you bring up the example of Hulk throwing that metal sheet at the helicopter, causing it to explode and to be destroyed. I don't think that Hulk threw that metal sheet at the helicopter wanting to kill the pilot, it never seemed he had the intention to kill. It seemed that Hulk just wanted the helicopter to stop firing and the only way he could do that is if he threw the metal sheet towards it. It never seemed that Hulk aimed to have the sheet hit the blades, he just threw the sheet without real aim, just threw it towards the helicopter as he knew that it would cause the helicopter to stop firing by either the sheet hitting the helicopter or the helicopter dodging the sheet and flying off course.

 

[dcHulk]

I was watching sm2 and I saw how spidey stopped the train in that movie, I wondered how would the hulk stop something like maybe a coal train from going into a dead end.
I'd have him run face to face with the train and have a head on collision with it and act as a break on the front of the train. It would be a great way to show exactly how strong the hulk is, a great way of showing heroism and his feats of strengh.
But of course we all know hulk would be blamed for it and later accused of being a murderer, even though no one died.

I like the idea...awesome. Although it would be reminiscent of a certain Will Smith movie...

But I like the idea. But alas, you are also right. Someone would die on the train and Hulk would be accused of murder. *Sigh*.

 

[dcHulk]

El Payaso, you bring up the example of Hulk throwing that metal sheet at the helicopter, causing it to explode and to be destroyed. I don't think that Hulk threw that metal sheet at the helicopter wanting to kill the pilot, it never seemed he had the intention to kill. It seemed that Hulk just wanted the helicopter to stop firing and the only way he could do that is if he threw the metal sheet towards it. It never seemed that Hulk aimed to have the sheet hit the blades, he just threw the sheet without real aim, just threw it towards the helicopter as he knew that it would cause the helicopter to stop firing by either the sheet hitting the helicopter or the helicopter dodging the sheet and flying off course.

Excellent point Sarg

 

[Gamma Goliath]

There's just no hope for hulk.

 

[Sarg92]

And Hulk doesn't even kill the pilot! He ejects outta the helicopter when it is tumbling across the ground! Re watch the scene and you see a seat being ejected out.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Nice eye Sarge92, that further proves our point!

 

[dcHulk]

And Hulk doesn't even kill the pilot! He ejects outta the helicopter when it is tumbling across the ground! Re watch the scene and you see a seat being ejected out.

Can ya give me a clue of where to look?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Jamon I was being facetious.

It didnt work

El Payaso, you say Hulk isn't a killer because Talbott didn't die yet you say TIH is a killer, was it actually ever stated in TIH that anyone died?

Yes, at least one scientist and 2 hikers had been killed in the past, and, depeding on if you count them, in a deleted scene there were dead bodies on Ross's plane after the factory incident.

Jamon, Abomb may not of been mindless but neither could he be negotiated with, he would not have stopped, exactly like the dogs.

But he could be incapacatated, as he was, the Hulk tried and tried to beat down the dogs, it didnt work, so he had to kill them to get them to stop.

Anyway, maybe we should take this discussion to the "ang Lee Hulk thread" as this sequel thread is getting derailed.

 

[Obi-Ron]

Yes, at least one scientist and 2 hikers had been killed in the past

Banner/Hulk was wanted "in connection with" their deaths - there is not enough info to warrant the claim that he killed them.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Banner/Hulk was wanted "in connection with" their deaths - there is not enough info to warrant the claim that he killed them.

We see him kill a scientist and a soldier in the opening credits.