Time to Discuss Race: The White Washing of The Shredder

Change a minority character into a White person? No one seems to care. Or, they offer up a bevy of excuses about "hiring the best actor for the job" or how "that character doesn't look/sound like a minority in the books." Change a White character into a minority, and the argument is suddenly "oh no, it's some P.C. bullcrap affirmative action" or "the studio has an agenda!"
You are surely kidding.
Unless you think there is no 'shredder is now white and we are all supposed to be pissed off,' controversy happening here and all over, I'd say you're wrong in what you see happening. Go to the comment section on the tmnt trailer on youtube to see this at it's worst. If you were making this same point about the nolan films, you'd have alot more truth in observation behind you but right here right now? No.

Secondly, changing whites to minorities might get some 'this is pc' detraction, but it also get's it's fair share of support. No one holds up a picket sign that reads "hollywood whitewashing" in those instances.

Just saying, it's not so simple.

Welcome to SHH 2014. That seems to just be the status quo. Everywhere you go, there can't be any reasonable displeasure whatsoever expressed. And if you do? You're a hater, a purist, a pessimist, you can't accept change/deviations, you're intentionally trying to not like it, you hated it from the start, etc.
It's been that way ever since a film or director has had time to develop fans. Try talking ill of X2 or the Raimi esque elements of spidey after those films dropped, you'd get opposing views and often times depending on how worn out an argument(see trendy popular criticisms on social media for $200 such as michael bay racism, nolan makes things too dark marvel makes things all jokes...), you'd get a louder more generalized response.

nothing new.
 
Either we as a society and culture need to be consistent with any disapproval of race changes, or these very selective detractors need to start owning up to their hidden prejudice and bigotry.
Lol, so what? I see no reason to be ashamed of admitting that I'm prejudiced when it comes to certain characters. It's a simple fact that there are chars I care about and chars I don't care about, or care less about. Of course I’m going to want the main characters to stay as close to the comics as possible because those are the characters I care about. Secondary characters or even lower characters are less important to me so creators can do what they want with them. Change their race, kill them off, I don’t care.
 
^At least he's/your honest. For better or worse.
I'm sure you can understand that not everyone is as forthcoming as you seemingly are. Often times they present their detraction is a far more righteous way.
 
Hey Arach, what are your thoughts on the race changing in our biblical and mythic roles.
From the white Jesus to the newest Hercules.

With 300 and movies like Troy, I guess the leads are still white, if not ever greek/Turks. I guess that's good enough for most.
 
Until proven otherwise (not likely) white washing Shredder changes who the character is, the TMNT story and potentially the dynamic of other characters, therefore it is stupid.

I'm adamantly against it.
 
Until proven otherwise (not likely) white washing Shredder changes who the character is, the TMNT story and potentially the dynamic of other characters, therefore it is stupid.

I'm adamantly against it.

Even if the change might be for the better?
 
Unless Asian Shredder was bad before, I don't see how white washing him would be a change for the better.
 
I like the story of Oroku Saki and his very traditional, very cultured rivalry with Hamato Yoshi/Master Splinter. If somehow that is still here, and made better by the racial switch it's very possible I eat my words. I won't say I don't doubt that will be the case. But I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if the time comes.

But even still, Saki is a unique character because he is a Japanese man seeking revenge against an old foe with an army of ninjas in Manhattan. Much like the turtles are out of place for being Turtles in a human world, Teenage in a world of adults, Ninjas in a Western world and Mutants in a "normal" world.

These are my opinions at least.
 
^At least he's/your honest. For better or worse.
I'm sure you can understand that not everyone is as forthcoming as you seemingly are. Often times they present their detraction is a far more righteous way.
I don't see what there is to be righteous about or why it is for better or worse. When I enjoy a fictional property I enjoy it for a specific reason, most of the times a good story and that includes characters.


As a writer myself I have a toolbox of tropes I use and the only important characters are the protagonist or protagonists and sometimes the antagonist. Other characters are mostly there to fulfill a certain role or function in the plot and are thus pretty much exchangeable.


Love interest, best friends, working colleagues and even B and C-class villains are nothing more than means to elaborate on the main characters. That's why it is important to get the main characters as close to the source material as possible and that includes looks, everything else is negotiable though on a scale.


Example: A, say, black Dr. Doom would be okay, a female Doctor Doom no matter what skin color, nope, not okay. The less important a character gets the less I have problems with people mucking around with it. For example I have absolutely no problem with huge mucking when it comes to the character “Beetle” in a Spider-man movie. Could be Black, Hispanic, Asian, Man, Woman or both, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about it.


Then again there are rare instances where I think changing a character's race is change for the better. It all depends on the cultural context of a property. For example, Dr. Strange is choke full of Asian mysticism, therefore it would fit the whole property better if Strange were Asian.
 
Enter the TDKT paradigm.
I don't see a paradigm here. What did the TDKT change that made it better than what came before?
And how would a white washed Shredder make for a better dynamic in terms of the Turtles?
 
Changing a character's race doesn't particularly bother me. Kingpin and Nick Fury are two big ones that come to mind. Shredder's been portrayed as not even human, so there's more than enough precedent. With the reincarnation spin that could be a possibility here, he could be anyone. As long as the Japanese heritage isn't discarded, then it doesn't matter. Johnny Storm is one that bugs me. Michael B. Jordan May have turned in a great audition. Good for him. There just seems like there's going to have to be a significant enough change in the fundamental relationship with Sue, that a big core component of the character is being lost.
 
Changing a character's race doesn't particularly bother me. Kingpin and Nick Fury are two big ones that come to mind. Shredder's been portrayed as not even human, so there's more than enough precedent.

I believe that ultimately wasn't well received. I still remember when Leo fought him in the cartoon and actually decapitated him. And then he just picked his head up and walked away. My imagination ran wild with possible scenarios to how that was possible. Especially remembering him boasting about bringing castles to ground in ancient Japan.

Was he an ancient Warlord, that was cursed with immortality and survived the centuries, amassing wealth and power? What was his connection to the Utroms? Were they somehow instrumental to his seeming immortality? Oh, no, nothing of the sort. He's just an evil Utrom with a long lifespan, controlling a robot body. What a letdown that revelation was.
 
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I think something wild is going to happen. Fitchner has said that he goes through several changes...I'm curious as to what those changes are
 
Hopefully not another Super Shredder transformation.
 
I'm with you on that one
I'm afraid you will be disappointed. That ordinary size Shredder won't do much to those turtle hulks. I think there will be enhancements. Mutagen, technology and stuff like that. And this set picture hints on that a lot. Check Shredder's size here.

lair3.jpg
 
Hey Arach, what are your thoughts on the race changing in our biblical and mythic roles.
From the white Jesus to the newest Hercules.

Now we are straying into territory I hoped to avoid...and complicating the matter even further. But I digress. I'll attempt to keep this brief.

1) The misrepresentation of Jesus Christ of Nazareth is problematic and a well discussed topic. Jesus Christ was born in what is now referred to as the middle-east, and is more likely to have looked like a Tuareg than the European look that is often ascribed to the his person.

Despite any equivocation about Christ's deity, he was a real man that dwelt in a region of the world where people are darker. I am always against changing the appearance of actual figures from history. It would be like making Confucius a Taino or Uther Pendragon Japanese. In the case of real people, their ethnic and cultural affiliations are likely a factor in their story.

2) Mythic figures are a different territory and quite complex as an issue. Certain legendary figures are merely personified as mythical. I already listed Uther Pendragon, but there are other examples such as Sundiata, the great mansa of Mali. There is an epic poem all about Sundiata in which he has super human strength and encounters witches and wraiths etc. However, Sundiata is a real person despite the legend that surrounds him. The very nature of creating legends around figures that are confirmed to be real or believed to have been real makes it difficult to assert that there should be free reign with the portrayal of mythic figures.

A secondary issue is that many mythic heroes, even when not real, are distinctly linked to a culture at an ethnic level. Heracles/Hercules is half-god, but also a Greecian male. For instance, the real life Greek hero, Leonidas, claimed to have descended from Heracles. And yes, the Greek often frequented Africa (then generally referred to as Ethiopia) and it is entirely possible for there to have been Greek people that were not all pale of skin. However, that is an even deeper rabbit hole. So keeping in mind that Leonidas identified with Heracles, a Greek hero, it is difficult to approve of Hercules being played by someone that does not appear to be Greek. But that leads to a third issue.

3) America is distinct from every other country in that The United States of America is not a homogeneous population. American culture at its core is meant to supersede ethnic affiliation. This is part of the reason why it is so ignorant to assume that a non-White American must be a foreigner that speaks some other language. There is a great Youtube video called "What Kind of Asian are you" that explores that exact issue. Now, why am I bringing this up? Because in America, where we share a culture and see ourselves as one nation, we expect that anyone can fill in the role of any figure that is iconic in our culture.

In the American mindset, culture is far more liquid, from the ease at which we can dine at restaurants with foreign cuisine, to the fact that we make foreign icons our own. The story of Hercules then, to an American, is more about a powerful hero and his quest than it is about him being Greecian. So when Americans are dealing with characters and stories that aren't American in origin, it muddies the waters of how an adaptation is handled.
 
Lol, so what? I see no reason to be ashamed of admitting that I'm prejudiced when it comes to certain characters. It's a simple fact that there are chars I care about and chars I don't care about, or care less about. Of course I’m going to want the main characters to stay as close to the comics as possible because those are the characters I care about. Secondary characters or even lower characters are less important to me so creators can do what they want with them. Change their race, kill them off, I don’t care.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I couldn't live with a "black " batman, no more than I could live with a "white" Black Panther, or an Asian "Blade"
 
I'm very torn on this one. On the one hand, I really like William Fichtner. He's a great actor and I'm sure that he'll give a good performance. On the other hand, a non-Japanese Shredder just doesn't sit right with me. I can see this MAYBE working out in one of two ways, either:

1. They go with the reincarnation angle from the comics. Eric Sachs is the reincarnation of the Japanese Oroku Saki.
2. Eric Sachs is an American who was raised by Japanese people or grew up in Japan (or both). He became obsessed with the culture and Samurai/ninja philosophy and fighting techniques and now emulates them.
 
I'm afraid you will be disappointed. That ordinary size Shredder won't do much to those turtle hulks. I think there will be enhancements. Mutagen, technology and stuff like that. And this set picture hints on that a lot. Check Shredder's size here.

lair3.jpg

I just hope it's not some huge hulking thing like in TMNT2....cool for it's time, not so much now
 
I read somewhere on another site...

That Orooku Sagi and Eric Sachs are brothers, well half brothers, and their father is the original leader of the Foot. When he dies Orooku takes over as Shredder but Splinter defeats and kills him, so Eric Sachs takes on the Family Business and as the New Shredder.

It could be fake though. Who knows. Any thoughts?
 
I read somewhere on another site...

That Orooku Sagi and Eric Sachs are brothers, well half brothers, and their father is the original leader of the Foot. When he dies Orooku takes over as Shredder but Splinter defeats and kills him, so Eric Sachs takes on the Family Business and as the New Shredder.

It could be fake though. Who knows. Any thoughts?

hmmm....
 
I read somewhere on another site...

That Orooku Sagi and Eric Sachs are brothers, well half brothers, and their father is the original leader of the Foot. When he dies Orooku takes over as Shredder but Splinter defeats and kills him, so Eric Sachs takes on the Family Business and as the New Shredder.

It could be fake though. Who knows. Any thoughts?

Heh, isn't that how the rivalry started in the comics? Not over a chick, but that Yoshi killed Saki's brother.
 

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