TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 2

[Audrey]

I don't get that complaint about the love story between Clark and Lois. The movie isn't about them, its about Clark/ Kal El/ Superman finding his place in the world and slowly building towards him becoming the iconic hero we all know and love. Too many superhero origin stories have a forced love story where they magically fall in love with each other by the end of the movie. That's not realistic at all, it takes time before people completely fall for one another and I am glad this movie is just showing the beginning stages of their relationship. I mean that's what sequels are for!! ha

Well for starters....Lois and Clark aren't just any superhero love story. They are THE love story of the genre and one of the most famous love stories in the world. The stakes are alot higher. People expect alot more.

The way in which Lois and Clark fall in love is a lot more unique and trickier than your average superhero romance.

And while it's not about them....it is. Like it or not, alot of people come into a Superman narrative expecting the Lois/Clark aspect to be a huge component.

There are some legit reviews out there saying outright that they would rather watch a story about Lois and Clark than a story where Superman punches stuff for 2 hours. It is what it is.

I personally think it's ok that this movie appears to lay the groundwork and saved the rest for the sequel. But there is a legit argument that a Superman narrative that pushes Lois to the sidelines is a failure because she's that central to the story. I'm not sure that actually happened here. I think they laid some groundwork. But I do get the complaints.

 

[Herolee10]

Also one question that I have that no one has answered. Is there any references or hints to a larger DC universe in this movie? Like is there a Daily Planet article talking about The Flash or referencing Gotham or anything or even a reference to Lex or other villains? How about an after credits scene?

Spoiler

When Zod and his company first approach Earth, they supposedly destroy a satellite belonging to Wayne Enterprises.

At leaset it's not Anakin & Padme from Epi.II. Floating food silly!

Oh god; that was just terrible in nearly every possible manner.lol Lack of chemistry between the actors, and it didn't help that the love story itself was doomed to fail as well.lol, and the poorly written dialogue and believable development between them was just hard to watch.

It feels like Natalie Portman can't catch a break at times in playing characters that have poorly written and rushed romantic arcs with another character.lol

 

[LordofhouseEl]

So they've gone a bit overboard with the last fight scene?

It's Superman for crying it loud how can it be overboard, you have multiple people on his level of course he city and landscape is going to suffer. I pray to God that all of this talk doesn't lead to Snyder toning things down for the sequel sadly it probably will.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Well for starters....Lois and Clark aren't just any superhero love story. They are THE love story of the genre and one of the most famous love stories in the world. The stakes are alot higher. People expect alot more.

The way in which Lois and Clark fall in love is a lot more unique and trickier than your average superhero romance.

And while it's not about them....it is. Like it or not, alot of people come into a Superman narrative expecting the Lois/Clark aspect to be a huge component.

There are some legit reviews out there saying outright that they would rather watch a story about Lois and Clark than a story where Superman punches stuff for 2 hours. It is what it is.

I personally think it's ok that this movie appears to lay the groundwork and saved the rest for the sequel. But there is a legit argument that a Superman narrative that pushes Lois to the sidelines is a failure because she's that central to the story. I'm not sure that actually happened here. I think they laid some groundwork. But I do get the complaints.

Okay I see what your saying.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Spoiler

When Zod and his company first approach Earth, they supposedly destroy a satellite belonging to Wayne Enterprises.

Oh god; that was just terrible in nearly every possible manner.lol Lack of chemistry between the actors, and it didn't help that the love story itself was doomed to fail as well.lol, and the poorly written dialogue and believable development between them was just hard to watch.

It feels like Natalie Portman can't catch a break at times in playing characters that have poorly written and rushed romantic arcs with another character.lol

Thanks for the info!

 

[Herolee10]

It's Superman for crying it loud how can it be overboard, you have multiple people on his level of course he city and landscape is going to suffer. I pray to God that all of this talk doesn't lead to Snyder toning things down for the sequel sadly it probably will.

Well regardless of whether he tones it down or not, he's going to have to find a new way to present the story and action in the sequel so it doesn't become repetitive in the sequel; especially since he doesn't have Kryptonians to use anymore, which are like the only beings (aside from Doomsday and Darkseid) that could provide Superman the type of fights that we'll be getting in MOS.

 

[kedrell]

http://www.batman-on-film.com/on-film_review_MAN-OF-STEEL_byJett_6-10-13.html

A from Jett.

Well if history has taught me anything it's never listen to Jett from BoF.

 

[Herolee10]

Okay I see what your saying.

Well, we can definitely look at the brighter side of things as well when it comes to the way the relationship was portrayed in this film:

1. First kiss between the couple where they were both conscious and didn't end with Lois forgetting her memories.lol

2. Lois was well established as an individual character.


On another note; I'm wondering if they'll actually make it somewhat of an major plot point somewhere down the line on how:

Spoiler

It was Bruce Wayne's company's satellite that was destroyed, ala made first contact with Zod, thus making the ever paranoid caped crusader to start spying on as much as he can globally and making him very reluctant to even trust Superman as being an legit hero at first when they meet later on.

 

[Gavan]

I personally think it's ok that this movie appears to lay the groundwork and saved the rest for the sequel. But there is a legit argument that a Superman narrative that pushes Lois to the sidelines is a failure because she's that central to the story. I'm not sure that actually happened here. I think they laid some groundwork. But I do get the complaints.

Well, the Birthright and Earth One versions of the origin story have Lois on the sidelines and there are barely any hints of the romance.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Well for starters....Lois and Clark aren't just any superhero love story. They are THE love story of the genre and one of the most famous love stories in the world. The stakes are alot higher. People expect alot more.

The way in which Lois and Clark fall in love is a lot more unique and trickier than your average superhero romance.

And while it's not about them....it is. Like it or not, alot of people come into a Superman narrative expecting the Lois/Clark aspect to be a huge component.

There are some legit reviews out there saying outright that they would rather watch a story about Lois and Clark than a story where Superman punches stuff for 2 hours. It is what it is.

I personally think it's ok that this movie appears to lay the groundwork and saved the rest for the sequel. But there is a legit argument that a Superman narrative that pushes Lois to the sidelines is a failure because she's that central to the story. I'm not sure that actually happened here. I think they laid some groundwork. But I do get the complaints.

That was an exceedingly reasonable post. Well said. But are you sure you're in the right place?

 

[jacobed]

What I don't understand about this movie and TDKR for that matter is people saying well its a great movie but it has flaws. Well yeah every movie has a problem or two so why not just say this was great. I don't hear that for any other comic book movie. I never heard Avengers oh yeah it's great but flawed, even though its riddled with flaws. It's something that just bugs me with me these past two films

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

It's Superman for crying it loud how can it be overboard, you have multiple people on his level of course he city and landscape is going to suffer. I pray to God that all of this talk doesn't lead to Snyder toning things down for the sequel sadly it probably will.

Calm down before you popped a vein..

It can easily be overboard/overdone...

If wanton destruction happens every 10 minutes in the movie,the action will ultimately lose it's impacts...nevermind if it's about Superman or Duff-man

 

[BH/HHH]

Jett from Batman on Film loved it

Spoiler

Author: Bill "Jett" Ramey (Follow @BATMANONFILM)
June 10, 2013

SYNOPSIS: A young boy learns that he has extraordinary powers and is not of this Earth. As a young man, he journeys to discover where he came from and what he was sent here to do. But the hero in him must emerge if he is to save the world from annihilation and become the symbol of hope for all mankind.

Before writing this review, I saw MAN OF STEEL two times. Trust me, it's a film that needs more than one viewing to process it. Before putting the final touches on what you are now reading, I saw it a third time in New York at the film's premiere. If you're counting at home, that's three viewings, and I think I've taken it all in by now.

So, what can I say about director Zack Snyder's MAN OF STEEL?

Well, it’s one of the best comic book superhero films ever. It’s an action film that never becomes a “spectacle.” It has a tremendous amount of heart. It makes you care about, and become emotionally invested in, all of its characters – good or bad. And, it’s a balls-out, non-stop, friggin’ thrill-ride from start to finish!

Good enough? OK, let me gush about it a bit more…

The filmmakers (director Zack Snyder, screenwriter David S. Goyer, and producer Chris Nolan – who also helped concoct the story along with Goyer) had the daunting task of making Superman – the granddaddy of all comic book superheroes – relevant to today’s audience. So, how do you make Superman “cool” without changing what makes him, well, Superman?

Well, we get the answer to that last question in MAN OF STEEL. You don’t change anything in terms of the Superman mythos, but you offer up a fresh approach when it comes to how the audience sees Superman. What the filmmakers did is put Superman in the “real world.” Exactly how would the people of Earth react if a flying alien with extraordinary powers – who just happens to look like one of us – showed up out of the blue? We’d freak out, that’s how we’d react!

Also, if you were this super-powered alien, wouldn’t you feel out of place? Would you not feel like a freak? And how would you not use those powers to rule the world, instead of being a force of good?

Consequently, MAN OF STEEL is much more than a first contact movie. It’s also a film about finding yourself – a journey we all take during our lives. And that’s the true brilliance of MAN OF STEEL. Unlike any previous cinematic incarnations of Superman, we get to take that “finding yourself” journey along with Clark Kent/Kal-El (Henry Cavill). And by the time Clark figures out who he is and his role on this planet, savior instead of conqueror, we’re totally invested in the man, not just the super part of the man.

As far as the film’s story, it’s essentially a first contact movie as I mentioned previously. However, it’s not Clark who makes first contact with Earth. No, that would be General Zod (Michael Shannon) and his small group of Kryptonian warriors. I won’t spoil how or why they show up on Earth, but I will say that they don’t have good intentions.

The core aspects of Superman’s origin story – the infant Kal-El is rocketed to Earth from a doomed Krypton where he is raised by a kind and upstanding family in America’s Heartland – remain unchanged. However, there are a few wrinkles added to the tale that make it different than anything we’ve seen previously. Also, don’t expect to see the full-on Clark Kent, reporter for the DAILY PLANET, who is secretly Superman, the protector of Metropolis in this movie…well, at least not in 99.9% of it.

The review continues after the jump!

When it comes to the cast and their performances, topnotch work by all involved. If I were forced to pick a few standouts, I’d go with Henry Cavill as Clark Kent/Kal-El (and yes, that’s his role according to the end credits), Michael Shannon as General Zod, and Russell Crowe as Jor-El.

Would it be blasphemy to suggest that Cavill is the best cinematic Superman – err, Clark Kent/Kal-El – ever? Regardless, Cavill brings a real humanity to the role which allows the audience to connect to him as a regular person like we never have in the past. Plus, the dude really looks like Superman!

Zod. Wow. Yes, we dislike him immensely and look forward to Superman (sorry, Kal-El) beating the hell out of him. But, he has an innate and genetic reason to be doing what he’s doing – “saving” Krypton. Does Shannon steal the show? No. But his performance as Zod is definitely one of the best ever in superhero cinema.

What if I told you that MAN OF STEEL gives a Jor-El who kicks some major ass? Well, that’s exactly the kind of Jor-El we get in this film. Don’t think that Russell Crowe pulled a Brando here and mailed in a performance that amounts to a few minutes on screen. Crowe’s Jor-El is in the entire film. How? Well, I’ll let you find out for yourself. But let’s just say that he does a whole hell of a lot more than simply put baby Kal-El in a rocket ship and blast him off to Earth.

Any negatives? Well, if I had to nitpick, yes, a few…I guess. The action scenes are a bit CGI-heavy – but you have to expect that going in to be honest. It’s Superman (um, Kal-El) battling a bunch of Kryptonians with powers like his own. If we want the sort of action fans have been clamoring for in a Superman film, you got to accept the CGI. Also, Superman (sorry, Kal-El) saving Lois gets a bit clichéd by the end of the film. But on the other hand, isn’t that what Kal-El (got it right this time) does, save Lois? ANYWAY…

I loved this film. It was totally not what I expected to see – and that’s a good thing. People have been clamoring for Kal-El (I’m on a roll now) to “punch something” in a movie and that’s exactly what he does in MAN OF STEEL. In fact, he punches A LOT of stuff – so that should quiet the fanboys…at least for a while. (Speaking of fanboys, there’s one moment in the film that’s going to be a bit “controversial” and I’m quite sure many of ‘em will totally freak out over it. Heads up.)

But MAN OF STEEL is MUCH more than Superman (Kal-El, sorry) “punching something.” It’s a movie with tons of heart and one in which we care about all the characters in it – good or bad. And hell, I’ll say it…

It’s the best Superman film ever. Trust me. - Bill "Jett" Ramey

http://www.batman-on-film.com/on-film_review_MAN-OF-STEEL_byJett_6-10-13.html

 

[Audrey]

Well, the Birthright and Earth One versions of the origin story have Lois on the sidelines and there are barely any hints of the romance.

Earth One, yes. But frankly, I thought Earth One was terrible and that was one of the reasons why. Earth One got poor reviews, in part, because it didn't treat Lois right.

Birthright? Lois is CENTRAL to Birthright. She's very important.

And there are several quiet moments between Lois and Superman in Birthright where he trusts her with information and he realizes that Lois is the only person who isn't afraid of him.

You also have that famous scene in the newsroom where Clark sees Lois telling off the bully for Jimmy and thinks to himself, "I think i'm in love." He asks her out at the end of the book. He's extremely attracted to her.

So while there isn't overt romance in Birthright...there are quiet moments between the characters. I think that's probably a legit criticism about Man of Steel. It does appear as though it could have shaved about 10 minutes off the destruction and allowed Lois and Clark to have a conversation that wasn't surrounded by impending doom and explosions.

But again...I can accept that this might be something we will get in the sequel. But...it HAS to happen in the sequel.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

What I don't understand about this movie and TDKR for that matter is people saying well its a great movie but it has flaws. Well yeah every movie has a problem or two so why not just say this was great. I don't hear that for any other comic book movie. I never heard Avengers oh yeah it's great but flawed, even though its riddled with flaws. It's something that just bugs me with me these past two films

That exact thing has been said about The Avengers over and over again by many many people. Try reading the thread in the Avengers section entitled "What People Didnt like about the Avengers..." for clarity. Or the hundreds of positive reviews on RT, the vast majority of which did indeed find multiple flaws in the movie. Bottom line: what you just wrote is whiney and devoid of factual content. Try and work on that.

 

[mace1]

by Jackothewacko
Yeah some of the reviews don't make sense, they kind of complain about the good stuff, which I assume is because for some reason, even though people have said over a million times by now that this is not the same superman as the 70's 80's, people are still taking points off they're review because it wasn't the donner superman, they're was no clumsy Clark kent, superman wasn't "witty" enough, and he was to earnest. They should have know not to expect donner superman, and shouldn't be taking points off they're review for not getting it.


AND

by Batman_Rises
The General audience will love it
They tend to love over the top action scenes, so I have no worries about people liking it or not. I guess some critics wanted Donner again, though.

 

[Herolee10]

So while there isn't overt romance in Birthright...there are quiet moments between the characters. I think that's probably a legit criticism about Man of Steel. It does appear as though it could have shaved about 10 minutes off the destruction and allowed Lois and Clark to have a conversation that wasn't surrounded by impending doom and explosions.

But again...I can accept that this might be something we will get in the sequel. But...it HAS to happen in the sequel.

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I was kind of disappointed that we didn't get a:

Spoiler

Scene between Superman/Clark and Lois after the final battle but before the final DP moment where they reflected on things.

Come to think of it, does anyone know if we actually get a scene with Lois in her apartment since I can't recall reading any posts where there could have been a moment to show her apartment within the film.

 

[Audrey]

That was an exceedingly reasonable post. Well said. But are you sure you're in the right place?

Haha.

Look, I'm the biggest Lois/Clark fan there is. I'm a huge, huge fan of their love story. I literally could watch a 2 hour movie that was just about their love story. I like them that much. I watched "Lois and Clark" all 4 seasons. I own the DVd's. I thought the final seasons of Smallville that explored Lois/Clark were the best seasons of the show. I love Lois and Clark.

But for me? I would rather have people come out of the movie thinking, "Geez, I really wish they would explore Lois and Clark more in the sequel" than come out of the movie already feeling like the movie (for lack of better words) blew their load.

Alot of people wanted more Lois and Clark from this movie. That's a legitimate complaint and critique. Ok. So let's get it in the sequel. I'm ok with that.

 

[jacobed]

There really isn't a love story which is definitely the more mature thing to do, its a lot like Thor. Comic book fans seem to not realize that these characters aren't in love with each other, they're just 2 ridiculously attractive people who like each other. It's not shallow not does it come out of nowhere, its how real relationships start. It's done perfectly here

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Well if you (Audrey)havent seen MoS yet, Id love to read your review on here once you do.

 

[Audrey]

There really isn't a love story which is definitely the more mature thing to do, its a lot like Thor. Comic book fans seem to not realize that these characters aren't in love with each other, they're just 2 ridiculously attractive people who like each other. It's not shallow not does it come out of nowhere, its how real relationships start. It's done perfectly here

Well, I have not seen the film yet. But a very close friend of mine has seen it and she's broken down the entire film for me.

What I gather is that the connection between Lois and Superman that is established is one of trust. There is absolutely a connection between them. Superman trusts her and she trusts him.

There is now room to grow into the love story we know and love in the future. And I'm fine with that.

I thought Smallville's version of Lois and Clark was one of the best versions of the story ever told. Smallville was a flawed show but I thought their Lois/Clark narrative was flawless. It was something they got very right. But they took their time. Sometimes, it was agonizing waiting for it. But because they took their time...the connection just kept building and was based on something more and real.

We know a sequel has been greenlit. So it becomes about taking some of the critique to heart and applying it wisely. It may be a very wise critique to say that they could have spent more time on some quiet character building for Lois and Clark AWAY from the destruction. So my advice to Goyer is...ok...take that to heart and make sure it's in the sequel.

 

[Autonet]

There is a connection. I could've done without [BLACKOUT]the kiss, just an almost kiss/longing look in the eyes.[/BLACKOUT] /shrug.

It's a believable connection that'll be interesting to see in the next movie. As you said Audrey, a lot of it is based on [BLACKOUT]her knowing who he is and being one of the only few people who do.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Mister J]

Most of the reviews that I glanced over seem to be in line with what I'd expect; largely dealing with the spectacle and weight of the film, viewed with differing responses. While I could have gone for a few more lighthearted moments sprinkled in, I never felt like I was being hammered with pretension or a lack of direction in any of the phases as some of them cite. Can't please everyone.

Also, I'm pretty sure I want to marry Faora.

 

[Audrey]

There is a connection. I could've done without [BLACKOUT]the kiss, just an almost kiss/longing look in the eyes.[/BLACKOUT] /shrug.

It's a believable connection that'll be interesting to see in the next movie. As you said Audrey, a lot of it is based on [BLACKOUT]her knowing who he is and being one of the only few people who do.[/BLACKOUT]

It's not a spoiler that they kiss---it's in the trailer.

I got the impression from a reliable source that it's more a moment of exploration and adreneline.

It's also pretty in-character for Lois and Superman. Lois and Clark kiss in one of the first episodes of "Lois and Clark." It doesn't mean they were madly in love yet. But I can see how in a moment of intense adreneline she might kiss him.

I view it more that there is a strange connection between them. There is something chemical. Sometimes you just go with it. I imagine the next film will be used, in part, to explore what they mean to each other and how they are dealing with working together at the Planet.

Frankly, there's a Lois/Superman scene that I've heard takes place near the very end after the incident with Zod that I'm shocked no one has talked about. It's been described to me as being very touching and an interesting look at how vulnerable he allows himself to be with her....

 

[Autonet]

It's not a spoiler that they kiss---it's in the trailer.

I got the impression from a reliable source that it's more a moment of exploration and adreneline.

It's also pretty in-character for Lois and Superman. Lois and Clark kiss in one of the first episodes of "Lois and Clark." It doesn't mean they were madly in love yet. But I can see how in a moment of intense adreneline she might kiss him.

Yeah that's why I don't mind it too much. [BLACKOUT]She had just fallen out of an airplane (the got destroyed too). Her shaking is actually pretty good acting in that scene, since her adrenaline must've been through the roof. Most of the movie you sense Lois really has a crush on him, moreso than he does on her, which adds an extra layer.[/BLACKOUT]