TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 3

[Rock Sexton]

I couldn't agree more with Mark Waid...
http://http://thrillbent.com/blog/man-of-steel-since-you-asked/

LOL when he said,

"Superman buys the humans enough time to sacrifice many, many of their own lives to bomb the Giant Machine themselves and even makes it back to Metropolis in time to catch Lois from falling (again), so…yay?"

 

[KalMart]

Tell Waid to go play with some zebras.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Spoilers ahead:

am i the only one who was bothered by the fact that
1. basically everyone knows clark is superman,
2. he was just some nomad with no education beyond high school(i'm guessing he finished high school). what qualifies him to be a reporter for a great metropolitan news paper like the daily planet? his poor fisherman skills, or bartending/busboy abilities? he basically only has some sort of employment for a few hours at a time, then just ditches out?

it would've been cool if they thought out the clark disguise a bit more, and if clark was a writer or journalist from the beginning.

people who are that lost would probably be more empathic to the struggles of society, and him being a reporter would write about it. more like a human interest reporter. take that and add in him covering his own feats, and the impact of them on the people that he's helped. that would be a good trigger for lois to see these articles by this clark kent, and try to find him, and in doing so find superman.

also it would've been more heartfelt if he did attempt to save pa, but wasn't in control of his powers. his lack of control on his abilities would result in his father's accidental death. not that he killed him, but that he couldn't save him. that would make his "exile" more meaningful.

It almost seems like nitpicking to even bring that up, but yeah add those to the list of stuff that makes very little sense.

And of course hes the most well know face in the world at that point, even if you assume there's no such thing as facial recognition software. The glasses are useless. And he's working for the paper that was at ground zero for the whole attack. So much for grounded in reality (Snyder's term not mine).

And why, after a long and elaborate prologue that lays out kryptons entire back story and zods motivation, do we need jor el to go over it all again on screen as if we hadn't already seen it? There were multiple ways for the filmmakers to convey the info to Clark without wasting screen time regurgitating it to the audience. I don't think the "show don't tell" rule is always true, but there's no good reason to show AND tell, especially when you just spent a large chunk of the budget and a quarter of the film laying it out.

 

[Sub-Zero]

It almost seems like nitpicking to even bring that up, but yeah add those to the list of stuff that makes very little sense.

And of course hes the most well know face in the world at that point, even if you assume there's no such thing as facial recognition software. The glasses are useless. And he's working for the paper that was at ground zero for the whole attack. So much for grounded in reality (Snyder's term not mine).

And why, after a long and elaborate prologue that lays out kryptons entire back story and zods motivation, do we need jor el to go over it all again on screen as if we hadn't already seen it? There were multiple ways for the filmmakers to convey the info to Clark without wasting screen time regurgitating it to the audience. I don't think the "show don't tell" rule is always true, but there's no good reason to show AND tell, especially when you just spent a large chunk of the budget and a quarter of the film laying it out.

i'm not nitpicking. i actually liked the movie. aside from the space jesus parallels. thats

 

[Joeyjojo72]

i'm not nitpicking. i actually liked the movie. aside from the space jesus parallels. thats

Actually his secret identity is supposed to be the "grounded in reality" part of the character. You know the whole mild mannered reporter who blends in with society?

And for the record I gave the film a 7.5 out of 10. Its not a great movie but I had fun and I'm looking forward to a sequel. Lots of room for improvement though.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

So...was that Batman Begins with a dash of Spider-Man origin slapped into a Superman movie?

That was just a really weird movie. I felt like I had seen it before, and it definitely didn't feel like a Superman movie. Like, at all, ever.

Jonathan Kent especially...what the hell? "Should I have let them all die?" "Maybe." MAYBE??? No. It is beyond ridiculous for Jonathan to say something like that.

Superman is cool because he protects people WHILE fighting the villain. It makes him vulnerable, but he does it anyway, because that's what he does.

 

[KalMart]

So...was that Batman Begins with a dash of Spider-Man origin slapped into a Superman movie?

That was just a really weird movie. I felt like I had seen it before, and it definitely didn't feel like a Superman movie. Like, at all, ever.

Jonathan Kent especially...what the hell? "Should I have let them all die?" "Maybe." MAYBE??? No. It is beyond ridiculous for Jonathan to say something like that.

Superman is cool because he protects people WHILE fighting the villain. It makes him vulnerable, but he does it anyway, because that's what he does.

It was Superman Begins...basically.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

So...was that Batman Begins with a dash of Spider-Man origin slapped into a Superman movie?

That was just a really weird movie. I felt like I had seen it before, and it definitely didn't feel like a Superman movie. Like, at all, ever.

Jonathan Kent especially...what the hell? "Should I have let them all die?" "Maybe." MAYBE??? No. It is beyond ridiculous for Jonathan to say something like that.

Superman is cool because he protects people WHILE fighting the villain. It makes him vulnerable, but he does it anyway, because that's what he does.

In 2013 america there is such a thing as acceptable losses and collateral damage. Especially in Kansas. This ain't your daddys Jonathan Kent. Sigh.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

It was Superman Begins...basically.

Yeah, but that's my main problem with it, I guess. Superman Begins, should be completely different from a Batman Begins movie, since they are basically complete opposites. Literally night and day. Here we got Night(Batman) and now Dusk(Man of Steel).

It just felt too dark and bleak to be a Superman movie.

 

[Lily Adler]

I do have a problem with this film like I did with TASM, it feels like everything should have been explained in this film will now be relegated towards the sequel.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

In 2013 america there is such a thing as acceptable losses and collateral damage. Especially in Kansas. This ain't your daddys Jonathan Kent. Sigh.

I guess, but to me Superman is the guy who would rescue a cat out of a tree, and actually worry about collateral damage. There was almost none of that here(especially after he put on the cape).

 

[Senator Pleasury]

SPOILERS

am i the only one who was bothered by the fact that
1. basically everyone knows clark is superman,
2. he was just some nomad with no education beyond high school(i'm guessing he finished high school). what qualifies him to be a reporter for a great metropolitan news paper like the daily planet? his poor fisherman skills, or bartending/busboy abilities? he basically only has some sort of employment for a few hours at a time, then just ditches out?

it would've been cool if they thought out the clark disguise a bit more, and if clark was a writer or journalist from the beginning.

people who are that lost would probably be more empathic to the struggles of society, and him being a reporter would write about it. more like a human interest reporter. take that and add in him covering his own feats, and the impact of them on the people that he's helped. that would be a good trigger for lois to see these articles by this clark kent, and try to find him, and in doing so find superman.

also it would've been more heartfelt if he did attempt to save pa, but wasn't in control of his powers. his lack of control on his abilities would result in his father's accidental death. not that he killed him, but that he couldn't save him. that would make his "exile" more meaningful.

The parts in bold.

I don't get what kind of attempt is this in which they just get rid of part of the core of the main character and the dynamics of his and the rest. Lois knowing everything right from the start? And it's not like it was hard for her to find out. All Smallville knows it!

And yes, the journalist part of Clark was again lost. I wish they had taken more of Birthright.

And letting his dad die just like that was the opposite of what Clark was born being. What was the problem there? How was him NOT saving his dad anything in character for Superman?

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I guess, but to me Superman is the guy who would rescue a cat out of a tree, and actually worry about collateral damage. There was almost none of that here(especially after he put on the cape).

I was being glib. I don't think those are GOOD things. Just sad facts. Your point is well taken.

 

[Longshot777]

Saw it again for the 2nd time...

And all the flaws I seen on my first viewing was not that not that bad anymore.

I now love this movie.

It's up there now for me but still below Nolans Batman Trilogy, Avengers, and Spiderman 1 and 2, and probably Watchmen.

But this movie is great. I understand what Goyer, Snyder, and Nolan are trying to do now.


And ONLY Lois, MArtha Kent, Pete, that Priest, and probably that Smallville cop knows his secret identity.

And they are not telling anyone...hence even the government doesn't know who Superman is. The Daily Planet doesn't know either.

And Clark DID not save his dad because HE TRUSTED HIS DAD which he has been hurtfully carrying in his heart for a long time.

He is NOT the SUperman yet that we all know. He is STILL learning how to get there.

That is why the sequel will be awesome.

Nolan, Goyer, and Snyder's sequel will do to Lex Luthor what Nolan's The Dark Knight did to the Joker.

I can't wait!!

 

[Daybreak_st]

Spoilers ahead:

am i the only one who was bothered by the fact that
1. basically everyone knows clark is superman,
2. he was just some nomad with no education beyond high school(i'm guessing he finished high school). what qualifies him to be a reporter for a great metropolitan news paper like the daily planet? his poor fisherman skills, or bartending/busboy abilities? he basically only has some sort of employment for a few hours at a time, then just ditches out?

it would've been cool if they thought out the clark disguise a bit more, and if clark was a writer or journalist from the beginning.

people who are that lost would probably be more empathic to the struggles of society, and him being a reporter would write about it. more like a human interest reporter. take that and add in him covering his own feats, and the impact of them on the people that he's helped. that would be a good trigger for lois to see these articles by this clark kent, and try to find him, and in doing so find superman.

Great points! I thought the same thing. For such a "reallistic" take on the material they completely glossed over this part. What you described is pretty much how Mark Waid wrote clark in Superman: Birthright. It is imho the best Superman origin story in a modern context for basically the points you bring out. It also allows you to get into the character much more than a wondering nomad. It makes him eventually landing at the daily planet actually make sense. This is also what's hinted at on the show Lois & Clark. He often talks about his worldwide travels and I believe he was a reporter the entire time as well. And people can criticize that show all they want but it presented the most likeable and well rounded clark kent I've seen on the screen thus far. His version of Superman was obviously problematic but the show had it's merits.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I think you mean Heath Ledger. And there is no way to predict such a performance ahead of time. Consider the fact that there is nothing of its caliber (at least the villains) in any of the other Nolan Batfilms for clarity on this.

Nolan himself has clearly stated in interviews that Ledger created the role from the ground up and he had minimal input and that Ledger ad-libbed much of his dialogue. Give the guy his due ffs.

Luthor hasn't even been cast yet so I don't get what you're trying to convey there. Simmer down.

 

[Daybreak_st]

And ONLY Lois, MArtha Kent, Pete, that Priest, and probably that Smallville cop knows his secret identity.

And they are not telling anyone...hence even the government doesn't know who Superman is. The Daily Planet doesn't know either.

I'm glad you like it more with each viewing and I hope I have a similar experience when I see it again. On the above though...didn't Lois find Martha because of Pete...he's not exactly keeping under wraps. After seeing him as Superman maybe that changes but he really didn't have a very compelling reason to tell Lois, she's just some random reporter. We also don't get to see the exchange between Lois and Martha, and that's a conversation I would've love to see play out. Did Martha deny anything, did she explain things to Lois? If so why? And if not then how did Lois wind up at Johnathan's grave?

I think the complaint is that it would be insanely easy for the government to find out, even without that spy satellite He tells them he grew up in Kansas, the attack happened in Smallville...it doesn't take Scherlock Holmes to put that together. Additionally that cop in Smallville drops Lois off at the Kent's home and she yells "Clark" to Superman...so pretty sure that cop knows too.

 

[Daybreak_st]

SPOILERS



The parts in bold.

I don't get what kind of attempt is this in which they just get rid of part of the core of the main character and the dynamics of his and the rest. Lois knowing everything right from the start? And it's not like it was hard for her to find out. All Smallville knows it!

And yes, the journalist part of Clark was again lost. I wish they had taken more of Birthright.

And letting his dad die just like that was the opposite of what Clark was born being. What was the problem there? How was him NOT saving his dad anything in character for Superman?

Totally agreed on Birthright. It would've allowed for a more in-depth look at Clark similar to Bruce in Begins. What we got of the adult clark is so undefined imo. No dialogue exchanges with work mates, not look at much of his life other than wandering around. I get what they were going for but I just think it limited the character's depth.

Also the part about Johathan's death, I agree. I see what they were going for but the moments leading up to that crucial plot point are based on flimsy logic. Why couldn't Clark just get the dog? Even without powers he was faster than his dad. Clark is just standing their for much of the scene, his dad is delaying, why not go to him then. He hasn't been waved off, his death isn't unavoidable, and clark wouldn't have had to reveal anything. So why not run over there while there was still time? The distance didn't even seem that far. The scene just ignores basic logic.

A little restructuring and you could've had a scene in which everything made sense. Clark is busy helping people while his dad is doing the same (instead of just standing there). There is considerable distance. Clark is busy when he looks up and sees his dad won't make it there is no time and he would have to reveal himself. His dad waves him off. Same concept but at least give us a plausible reason as to why the characters are in that situation instead of several consecutively dumb decisions.

 

[sf2]

SPOILERS



The parts in bold.

I don't get what kind of attempt is this in which they just get rid of part of the core of the main character and the dynamics of his and the rest. Lois knowing everything right from the start? And it's not like it was hard for her to find out. All Smallville knows it!

And yes, the journalist part of Clark was again lost. I wish they had taken more of Birthright.

And letting his dad die just like that was the opposite of what Clark was born being. What was the problem there? How was him NOT saving his dad anything in character for Superman?

Maybe in character for a human. He wanted too. But his father stopped him. He hesitated. When he could any move. His father had gone. It happened so quickly N that's life.

 

[Longshot777]

Of course Heath Ledger was GREAT and his performance was the top of all villains in superhero films !!!

But it was Nolan's dialogues that also made Joker great.

And in the sequel, Luthor's dialogues will be a great psychological match for Superman in the way the Joker was a match for Batman in the Dark Knight.


And yeah, those military government guys does seem kind of stupid for not putting 2 and 2 together.

But in Smallville, I guess its still could be anyone...that cop probably has good Smallville morals that would not rat out the Kents.

Lois and now Pete would now keep it quiet. And Clark was so behind the scenes and wimpy when he was growing up that people just forgot about him. It was really ONLY Pete that was the connection to Superman's ID.

But yeah, i'm just aiming high here to cover up why the military can't figure out who Superman is. But it is possible.

 

[Tra-El]

I've been wondering about Kevin Smith's review of Man of Steel and what he thought. His podcast is up on Youtube and there's about 10 parts to it. About to have a listen and was wondering if anybody has heard it....

Part One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16AG7Tab7Vc

 

[Mr.?]

I've been wondering about Kevin Smith's review of Man of Steel and what he thought. His podcast is up on Youtube and there's about 10 parts to it. About to have a listen and was wondering if anybody has heard it....

Part One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16AG7Tab7Vc

I listened to this. The other reviewer with Kevin Smith is horribly annoying and basically bashes the movie because its not like the Donner movies.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Of course Heath Ledger was GREAT and his performance was the top of all villains in superhero films !!!

But it was Nolan's dialogues that also made Joker great.

And in the sequel, Luthor's dialogues will be a great psychological match for Superman in the way the Joker was a match for Batman in the Dark Knight.


And yeah, those military government guys does seem kind of stupid for not putting 2 and 2 together.

But in Smallville, I guess its still could be anyone...that cop probably has good Smallville morals that would not rat out the Kents.

Lois and now Pete would now keep it quiet. And Clark was so behind the scenes and wimpy when he was growing up that people just forgot about him. It was really ONLY Pete that was the connection to Superman's ID.

But yeah, i'm just aiming high here to cover up why the military can't figure out who Superman is. But it is possible.

I honestly hope it works out like you envision. cheers.

 

[Str8 Rippin]

I'm really starting to like the idea of Doomsday as the villain in the second movie. Superman's death would be such an interesting way to attack a comic-book movie in a different way. That I know of at least, the only one that sort of does it is TDKR, and that was the final film so they couldn't build on his "death" really in any way.

 

[Visualiza]

Just got back from opening night here in Beijing...and I think that this movie is awful, from start to finish. There's too much going on in my head right now to give a coherent review, and at almost 3:00 AM, I'm exhausted. Maybe I'll revisit this later, but I think that the character deserves much better than what we've been given here.