TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 3

[danoyse]

Telling me to use the ignore button as if I'm not allowed to comment isn't?

I thought this thread was about MoS, not Rock Sexton.

Telling you to use the ignore button is someone's way of telling you that they would no longer like to engage in discussion with you.

From what I've seen, it's because you're being obnoxious and rude.

We can continue this thread without you interrupting if you'd like to keep this up.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Telling me to use the ignore button as if I'm not allowed to comment isn't?

I thought this thread was about MoS, not Rock Sexton.

Quit while you're ahead.

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

I thought this movie rocked. Had just the right amount of emotional depth, intelligent filmmaking, and entertaining fight scenes. It was one of the best superhero films I've seen in a while. I absolutely loved it. Henry Cavill was an astounding Superman.


I have never been a big Superman fan either, but I loved him in this. He was emotionally engaging and.....HE ACTUALLY FOUGHT SOMEONE. HE FOUGHT A LOT OF PEOPLE. Superman in past movies has been really boring, but here he was badass.


Good summer movie.

 

[Stephen K. Hone]

Couple of things I noticed on my third viewing. the first part is for 'Heretic'.

Spoiler

Tor-an was not killed by Superman. I pretty much knew this, but wanted to be 100% sure. He lobbed the locomotive back at Superman after Superman punched him into it. He then helped faora in to the Scarab shuttle thingy and off they went. Second thing I realized is, that although it looks like all of Metropolis destroyed, it is within a smaller area around the Daily Planet. A good size area for sure, but perhaps 10% (just a guess) or less of the actual city. They occassionally pull back, and you see a large relatively untouched part of the surrounding city. In the sequel I expect the Daily Planet from the last scene, is a new DP building they have moved into rather than being the old one rebuilt, and this one will probably have the iconic globe on the top when they show it in MOS 2. The rest of the city could be shown to be in a rebuilding process.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Couple of things I noticed on my third viewing. the first part is for 'Heretic'.

Spoiler

Tor-an was not killed by Superman. I pretty much knew this, but wanted to be 100% sure. He lobbed the locomotive back at Superman after Superman punched him into it. He then helped faora in to the Scarab shuttle thingy and off they went. Second thing I realized is, that although it looks like all of Metropolis destroyed, it is within a smaller area around the Daily Planet. A good size area for sure, but perhaps 10% (just a guess) or less of the actual city. They occassionally pull back, and you see a large relatively untouched part of the surrounding city. In the sequel I expect the Daily Planet from the last scene, is a new DP building they have moved into rather than being the old one rebuilt, and this one will probably have the iconic globe on the top when they show it in MOS 2. The rest of the city could be shown to be in a rebuilding process.

If Tor-An was that extremely tall Kryptonian, then no .... he didn't die. He carried Faora back onto the ship.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I thought this movie rocked. Had just the right amount of emotional depth, intelligent filmmaking, and entertaining fight scenes. It was one of the best superhero films I've seen in a while. I absolutely loved it. Henry Cavill was an astounding Superman.


I have never been a big Superman fan either, but I loved him in this. He was emotionally engaging and.....HE ACTUALLY FOUGHT SOMEONE. HE FOUGHT A LOT OF PEOPLE. Superman in past movies has been really boring, but here he was badass.


Good summer movie.

Well, fighting is a comic-book trait. You don't think he lifted islands and stopped earthquakes for all his 75 years, do you? :P

 

[Stephen K. Hone]

Have I posted my thoughs on this film yet?

I don't think so, but something tells me you are going to lol!

 

[TheBat812]

I like the story concepts, but I see decisions to abbreviate and shoehorn it in the final script being a major pitfall. Saw the same things in TDK, but in this we've got an even lesser director, too. And yeah, the action in the second half was bloated and to me a bit too monotone. I just don't see an editor changing the fact that there was yet another punch/throw/crash contest with Zod after having 40 minutes of it already. Don't know if cutting the before down would have helped much.....for example. Maybe help with the bloating.

A lot of it has to do with lesser direction imo. It's structured much like BB, but the transitions are so blatant and deliberate it's kind of hard not to roll your eyes. Hard to tell in which part of the process this would best have been remedied, but i'd imagine it's direction, since BB was just as deliberate in the way they moved from sequence to sequence, but flows so much better in BB.

Definitely agree that the action was pretty much numbing by the end, but I'm not sure much could've been done from continuity's sake with shortening the action.

But damn, that Krypton sequence was stale and had so many unnecessary things in it, but once again, storywise, I'm not sure what they could've cut without the themes being completely incomplete without all the plants contained therein.

 

[sf2]

I can’t believe some fans trash MOS like a rotten tomato, just because MOS doesn't do more on the typical “superhero saving innocents and properties” scenes.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

Btw. Speaking of critics, (and specifically RT scores) instead of all those negative or tepid reviews cutting MOS off at the knees it could end up being a black eye to RT's future credibility, in that perhaps movie goers in the future won't put so much stock in what their ratings say.To be honest, I'm not so sure that the average GA member even does. Even someone high up at RT couldn't understand how MOS ended up being rotten, and actually mentioned it in the press.

The great thing is that we are pretty much assured of at least a MOS sequel, and perhaps this will encourage WB to finally fast track The Flash, who I feel should be the next hero up.

Considering Rottentomatoes is owned by Warner Bros it doesn't shock me to hear someone high up was shilling for Man of Steel to the press.

And if RT's credibility was going to be affected by tentpole summer films having success despite getting panned it would have happened a long time ago. For exampe, the Transformers movies were pure garbage but those movies were still financial successes with grade "A" cinemascores (which speaks volumes about the general audience).

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I can’t believe some fans trash MOS like a rotten tomato, just because MOS doesn't do more on the typical “superhero saving innocents and properties” scenes.

And kittens. http://www.stltoday.com/entertainme...cle_b45a44f0-acb0-5c58-abc5-5bee960933e0.html

75. Director Zack Snyder is a visually unimaginative, morally bankrupt hack who doesn't know a thing about humans.

Unimaginative? The most unique looking superhero film ever?-
Morally bankrupt? That's low, even for a critic. Every report and encounter people have had with him has been positive. He's a truly humble guy, saying that if the Watchmen movie didn't hype the GN, it was a failure.

The human parts of MOS are the BEST parts of MOS.

There are no clothes-changing scenes, but we get a gratuitous shirtless one.-That's not even a fair accusation. Superman:TM has superman MORPHING, not changing in a phone-booth. The black and white show was more plausible and effective in that sense.

 

[The Guard]

People keep whining about repetitive thematic words and ideas, etc...I'm pretty sure I heard the word "hope" twice, and I think Jor-El used the word "save" once. That's hardly excessive, and far more restraint than Goyer showed when writing BATMAN BEGINS.

And just reading some of the general comments here, opinions on quality aside, it seems a lot of people simply didn't pay very close attention to this movie. I keep seeing post after post of "What was the point of X or Y?", when the movie showed you the point of X and Y.

I don't really get the complaints about the editing/transitions being bad, either. Imperfect, perhaps, but transitions between time periods/sequences are motivated visually and thematically, and done about as well done as, oh, say, BATMAN BEGINS. Current trends in editing seem to be a bit choppier and abrupt than in the past.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Btw. Speaking of critics, (and specifically RT scores) instead of all those negative or tepid reviews cutting MOS off at the knees it could end up being a black eye to RT's future credibility, in that perhaps movie goers in the future won't put so much stock in what their ratings say.

Wait. Are you...serious?

So because MOS is getting poor reviews all of a sudden the entirety of RT's future is in jeopardy? Really? What if the critics had been supportive of MOS? Would that mean their credibility is intact? Riiiiggght. This is what annoys me about our fanboy community: sometimes our love of these characters blinds our ability to be fair and reasonable when our heroes/films get constructive criticism. So we just attack the critics and doom their futures.

Here's a thought: Is it not completely possible that critics had genuine reasons not to like the film? Doesn't Warner Bros. own the site anyway? If anything, RT should be bashing the Marvel films and only praising DC's stuff by your reasoning. But they're not. Here's what history has shown:

*They've lauded Marvel films like The Avengers and Iron Man.

*They've bashed Marvel films like Fantastic Four and X-Men: The Last Stand.

*They've lauded DC films like The Dark Knight series and...even Superman Returns.

*They've bashed DC films like Green Lantern and now, unfortunately Man of Steel.

So it's across the board. Maybe this film is simply not the critical success we were hoping for. It's a reality check and I know it stings but...damn, let's not take it out on Rottentomatoes.com. I mean, come the hell on!

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

People keep whining about repetitive thematic words and ideas, etc...I'm pretty sure I heard the word "hope" twice, and I think Jor-El used the word "save" once. That's hardly excessive, and far more restraint than Goyer showed when writing BATMAN BEGINS.

And just reading some of the general comments here, opinions on quality aside, it seems a lot of people simply didn't pay very close attention to this movie. I keep seeing post after post of "What was the point of X or Y?", when the movie showed you the point of X and Y.

I don't really get the complaints about the editing/transitions being bad, either. Imperfect, perhaps, but transitions between time periods/sequences are motivated visually and thematically, and done about as well done as, oh, say, BATMAN BEGINS. Current trends in editing seem to be a bit choppier and abrupt than in the past.

Yes. I hate to admit it, as I'm a fan of Nolan's film-making style, especially for the TDK trilogy, but critics have made Snyder a scapegoat for all the things they SECRETLY disliked about the TDK movies. Because, when all is said and done, people won't give death threats to someone who bashes a Zack Snyder movie.

 

[Rock Sexton]

People keep whining about repetitive thematic words and ideas, etc...I'm pretty sure I heard the word "hope" twice, and I think Jor-El used the word "save" once. That's hardly excessive, and far more restraint than Goyer showed when writing BATMAN BEGINS.

I paid extremely close attention. For example, Zod talks about his own purpose in the beginning to Jor-El ..... then again to Supes when they first meet and then AGAIN at the end of the movie after his cohorts were shipped back out to the Phantom Zone.

Pa Kent, Ma Kent, Jor-El, Perry White and even Supes himself speak multiple times about Supe's purpose and how the world wasn't ready yet for a person like him. It wasn't phrased in the exact same word(s) each time .... but the message was still there.

It was just one too many times for me personally. I would rather have gotten more actual reactions from people in Smallville or around the world and come to that conclusion myself instead of being told it routinely throughout the film.

 

[Stephen K. Hone]

If Tor-An was that extremely tall Kryptonian, then no .... he didn't die. He carried Faora back onto the ship.

Yes I believe that's who it is. Heretic was saying:

Spoiler

that Superman screaming after he broke Zod's neck was not because he was devastated that he had to take a life, but that he was really upset that he wouldn't be able to find out more about his heritage from Zod who was the last Kryptonian. In other words this Superman is selfish. He essentially said that Superman had already killed, (Tor-an) so there is no way he would be filled with regret for killing Zod ergo: This Superman routinely kills and it means nothing to him.

It's got to suck, when the lynchpin of someones hypothesis is so easily pulled just by paying attention to what's up on the screen.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I paid extremely close attention. For example, Zod talks about his own purpose in the beginning to Jor-El ..... then again to Supes when they first meet and then AGAIN at the end of the movie after his cohorts were shipped back out to the Phantom Zone.

Pa Kent, Ma Kent, Jor-El, Perry White and even Supes himself speak multiple times about Supe's purpose and how the world wasn't ready yet for a person like him. It wasn't phrased in the exact same word(s) each time .... but the message was still there.

It was just one too many times for me personally. I would rather have gotten more actual reactions from people in Smallville or around the world and come to that conclusion myself instead of being told it routinely throughout the film.

And Ra's talked about Batman being a legend. And Alfred an incorruptible symbol, and Rachel about justice vs revenge, etc. And even the mob boss lectured Bruce on fear. There's a lot of philosophizing and lecturing, and less letting the story create the themes with the visuals.

To me, the shot of Zod's armor coming off seems symbolic of the unraveling of his mind. Also, the bent fence showing that Clark moved with the blow to avoid crushing the hand of the blow, a kind of reflection of a "bent" society. Or maybe I'm just over-analyzing.

 

[Stephen K. Hone]

People keep whining about repetitive thematic words and ideas, etc...I'm pretty sure I heard the word "hope" twice, and I think Jor-El used the word "save" once. That's hardly excessive, and far more restraint than Goyer showed when writing BATMAN BEGINS.

And just reading some of the general comments here, opinions on quality aside, it seems a lot of people simply didn't pay very close attention to this movie. I keep seeing post after post of "What was the point of X or Y?", when the movie showed you the point of X and Y.

I don't really get the complaints about the editing/transitions being bad, either. Imperfect, perhaps, but transitions between time periods/sequences are motivated visually and thematically, and done about as well done as, oh, say, BATMAN BEGINS. Current trends in editing seem to be a bit choppier and abrupt than in the past.

As you said lots of movies have bad edits here and there, but overall the editing, the flashbacks et al work very well in my opinion and there was plenty of exposition as to Clarks motivation his background etc. Nothing felt rushed to me, and I was happy with the pacing. I'll bet the average GA member now knows more about Superman's background than ever before.

There is one particular edit in TDKR that was a particularly "WTF was the editor thinking?" moment for me, but given the scope of these films and how sometimes they have to rush to get everything done I'm surprised we don't see more.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I can’t believe some fans trash MOS like a rotten tomato, just because MOS doesn't do more on the typical “superhero saving innocents and properties” scenes.

I think I see what you did there.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I think I see what you did there.

We just need more romance, more land schemes. It's sad that a thought-provoking, intense, and compelling movie gets panned because cat's don't get rescued from trees, there isn't any campy humor, and the undies are missing. There's more to it than that, but I honestly think that the main thing holding MOS back, is because there wasn't a Superman-Lives travesty to compare it with (like Batman had when BB came out).

Oh well. The critics can take Returns, I'll take Superman.

 

[sf2]

We just need more romance, more land schemes. It's sad that a thought-provoking, intense, and compelling movie gets panned because cat's don't get rescued from trees, there isn't any campy humor, and the undies are missing. There's more to it than that, but I honestly think that the main thing holding MOS back, is because there wasn't a Superman-Lives travesty to compare it with (like Batman had when BB came out).

Oh well. The critics can take Returns, I'll take Superman.

I’m fine with critics prefer SR to MOS. But fans???!!! That’s just mind bogging.
SR does have the typical “superhero saving innocent scenes” and are beautifully shot.
But the main story of SR is totally wrong!!! And it heads to a dead end!!!

 

[StarvingArtist]

I'm in total shock of how many people actually are liking this film in the slightest. I mean this is more than a bad superhero movie, it's a bad movie in general. Now, every film will have it's plot holes, but this is complete Swiss cheese. The editing was terrible. The effects were terrible. The acting was flat. Superman killed more people than he saved. "you can save them all......except the millions you just killed". I mean there was ZERO wonder in this film at all. The first two Reeve films had wonder. You got excited when he saved Lois from the helicopter and when he asked Zod to step outside. But in MOS...nothing. So much was wrong. Lois being told to stay in side cause it will be below 40 degrees. Two seconds later she is in rough terrain in the bitter cold with a hat and a scarf. Come on! No one knew what the hell was going on in this film. Why would Lois know more than Superman on how to save everyone? Why is Jor-El hanging around opening doors like a wizard? Did he die? Superman flopping around trying to learn to fly? Who is he, the great American hero? Did he lose the instruction booklet? If the general knows Superman grew up in Kansas, Lois knows who he is, the kids on the bus know who he is...why he is still hiding? Everyone meet Clark, who is Superman, Superman this is everyone. Well not everyone in Metropolis....only Perry, the bald guy, and Jenny Olson seemed to live. And did Johnathon Kent really go out like that? He waved good bye as the Tornado gently carried him away? The town knows about Clark, why he still hiding his powers to save his Dad? Oh, and the scene where Clark is wearing the red cape, running around the back yard...who is he pretending to be? Did anyone was to take a moment to discuss the fact that there were aliens? No one was shocked. No one cared that millions died? I thought Superman would have. We need to bury this one and hope someone and really bring Superman back better than this. We deserve it.

Yep

 

[BigThor]

Well here it goes, I thoroughly enjoyed MOS frrom start to finish despite quite a bit of problems I had with it. The acting, scale, and overall action in this film was top notch, there was couple moments where I felt like "HOLY **** THIS IS AWESOME". However the pacing was a little weird and the editing was strange as well with all the sloppy scene transitions. The script was also leaning on the weak side, the dialogue was still serviceable due to the quality of the acting.

The main cast gave strong performances, Kevin Costner, Diane Lane, and Crowe knocked it out of park as expected. Antje Traue's Faora is now one of my favorite CMB henchmen ever along with JBD's Eric Savin in IM3. Oh and I must say Henry Cavill is my favorite big screen version of Superman yet, definately up there with the greats in terms with embodying his character.


I give this a solid 7.5 and I wonder how they're gonna top the scale of this film in the sequel.

 

[KalMart]

Where did these folks plug their TV into...?

 

[Poeman]

The film gets better with every viewing for me...I did not have a huge praise for it when I saw it at midnight on Thursday...Gave it a 7/10...I have settled at 8.5/10 after viewing it many times and understanding the film overall.

I also think someone like Zach Snyder whose probably seen the film many times during the editing process probably didnt envision the pacing being a big issue as it appears to some. It seemed fine for me with every viewing actually. I honestly love the overall flow now, the past/present scenes make sense and the scenes with Henry as Superman are gold