TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 3

[tomoe]

I’m fine with critics prefer SR to MOS. But fans???!!! That’s just mind bogging.
SR does have the typical “superhero saving innocent scenes” and are beautifully shot.
But the main story of SR is totally wrong!!! And it heads to a dead end!!!

I actually didn't have much of a problem with SR's story, though I wasn't thrilled about it either. It was its slow as molasses pacing and unrelatability of all the characters that bored the heck out of me. MOS was much more entertaining overall, but nothing in SR pissed me off as much as certain scenes in MOS. I had no problems with the flashbacks and didn't think they were choppy at all. It was the events of the movie and how they were handled that made MOS less than perfect to me. That's why I don't want Goyer or Snyder back. One has craptacular ideas and the other doesn't know the meaning of subtlety.

 

[StarvingArtist]

Again, the polarization of opinions on these boards is fascinating.

 

[KalMart]

I actually didn't have much of a problem with SR's story, though I wasn't thrilled about it either. It was its slow as molasses pacing and unrelatability of all the characters that bored the heck out of me. MOS was much more entertaining overall, but nothing in SR pissed me off as much as certain scenes in MOS. I had no problems with the flashbacks and didn't think they were choppy at all. It was the events of the movie and how they were handled that made MOS less than perfect to me. That's why I don't want Goyer or Snyder back. One has craptacular ideas and the other doesn't know the meaning of subtlety.

I think they should definitely move on from Nolan/Goyer/Snyder if they continue with more movies. Nolan and Goyer emptied their superhero tank on TDK, and Snyder's just not right for this sort of movie.

 

[Micromind]

Originally Posted by batman1115
So much was wrong. Lois being told to stay in side cause it will be below 40 degrees. Two seconds later she is in rough terrain in the bitter cold with a hat and a scarf. Come on! No one knew what the hell was going on in this film.

You expect Lois Lane to follow orders ? Is she known to act by book ?

Originally Posted by batman1115
Why would Lois know more than Superman on how to save everyone?

Jor El had given her some instructions, to tell Kal El.

Originally Posted by batman1115
Why is Jor-El hanging around opening doors like a wizard? Did he die?

Did you watch the movie carefully ?

Lois Lane was guided by Jor El's hologram, the real Jor El was killed by Zod On Krypton.

Originally Posted by batman1115

Superman flopping around trying to learn to fly? Who is he, the great American hero? Did he lose the instruction booklet?

So, you wanted him to read an instruction booklet on how to fly ? And get mastery over his flight ? lol.

Originally Posted by batman1115
If the general knows Superman grew up in Kansas, Lois knows who he is, the kids on the bus know who he is...why he is still hiding? Everyone meet Clark, who is Superman, Superman this is everyone.

General had no idea about who Superman was till Lois provided some info.

Originally Posted by batman1115
Well not everyone in Metropolis....only Perry, the bald guy, and Jenny Olson seemed to live. And did Johnathon Kent really go out like that? He waved good bye as the Tornado gently carried him away? The town knows about Clark, why he still hiding his powers to save his Dad?

I don't think that everyone in Smallville knows about Clark's powers.

Originally Posted by batman1115

Oh, and the scene where Clark is wearing the red cape, running around the back yard...who is he pretending to be?

He was playing, maybe emulating some other fictionary hero like Flash Gordon, why does it needed to be explained in detail ?

Originally Posted by batman1115 Did anyone was to take a moment to discuss the fact that there were aliens? No one was shocked. No one cared that millions died? I thought Superman would have. We need to bury this one and hope someone and really bring Superman back better than this. We deserve it.

Millions died ? when ?

 

[sf2]

Bruce Begin, u r wasting your time obviously on batman1115's craps.

 

[Micromind]

The movie has many flaws, but some of the complaints are ridiculous, at least watch the movie carefully and then make some legitimate complaints.

 

[KingKane88]

I think they should definitely move on from Nolan/Goyer/Snyder if they continue with more movies. Nolan and Goyer emptied their superhero tank on TDK, and Snyder's just not right for this sort of movie.

Hate to brake it to you, but not only are you in the minority here, but Snyder and Goyer are both coming back like it or not.

MOS received a huge applause today after the movie, and my buddy kept saying when we came back to the house "that movie was so dope dude, it was so dope". My father couldn't stop raving about how excellent it was, and my 36 yr old brother loved it saying it was easily a solid 8 out 10 for him. The firstt thing my sis said to me when leaving the theater was "Wow that movie was really good". I brought a total of 17 people to see MOS in the 2 showings i went to and not one of these people feels as you do, I have gotton 100% positive feedback thus far. It's quite obvious people are seeing something differently then you, I know I sure am.

My first showing I didn't enjoy the movie as much as the second time cause I sat there over anylizing and nitpicking at every scene through the entire movie. Earlier today I went in simply to watch the movie and enjoy it, and man it really did blow me away after my second viewing not sitting there over thinking every scene this time around.

 

[sf2]

I think they should definitely move on from Nolan/Goyer/Snyder if they continue with more movies. Nolan and Goyer emptied their superhero tank on TDK, and Snyder's just not right for this sort of movie.

Snyder is not right??? who else is???

Synder has given us the most badass, macho superman ever on screen!

 

[KingKane88]

Snyder is not right??? who else is???

Synder has given us the most badass, macho superman ever on screen!

Agree. Goyer just needs to be a bit better next time. My only complaint with Snyder would be parts of the editing, but all in all Snyder did a great job bringing us an incredible Superman.

 

[KalMart]

Snyder is not right??? who else is???

I think Abrams, Vaughn, or even Favreau could have done better with even this same material. But I've mentioned before that I'd like to see a good relative newcomer director really make his name with these. Like Singer with Xmen or Nolan with Batman for that matter...or Cauron with Harry Potter, etc. Nolan/Goyer/Snyder feel superhero-ed out, if you will. I'd like to see more of a 'young lion' make a splash with it like it's basically always been with the better franchises. Heck...Donner with STM, too.

Synder has given us the most badass, macho superman ever on screen!

Compared to 70's camp and a moping, eavesdropping achy-breaky heart. Not saying a whole lot, y'know?

 

[tomoe]

Hate to brake it to you, but not only are you in the minority here, but Snyder and Goyer are both coming back like it or not.

MOS received a huge applause today after the movie, and my buddy kept saying when we came back to the house "that movie was so dope dude, it was so dope". My father couldn't stop raving about how excellent it was, and my 36 yr old brother loved it saying it was easily a solid 8 out 10 for him. The firstt thing my sis said to me when leaving the theater was "Wow that movie was really good". I brought a total of 17 people to see MOS in the 2 showings i went to and not one of these people feels as you do, I have gotton 100% positive feedback thus far. It's quite obvious people are seeing something differently then you, I know I sure am.

My first showing I didn't enjoy the movie as much as the second time cause I sat there over anylizing and nitpicking at every scene through the entire movie. Earlier today I went in simply to watch the movie and enjoy it, and man it really did blow me away after my second viewing not sitting there over thinking every scene this time around.

I'm all for bringing them back if they can for sure fix the problems of MOS in MOS2. I'm just not sure if I trust them to. After all, they should have been able to see the problems in MOS but did not. What's to say they don't create more problems while trying to fix these problems. My brother in law thought it was horrible by the way, so I've gotten 100% negative feedback so far.

 

[tomoe]

Snyder is not right??? who else is???

Synder has given us the most badass, macho superman ever on screen!

Anyone with a better track record. I really had doubts about Snyder when he came on board, because I've yet to see a director who's made mostly bad to mediocre movies turn around and make a really good movie. Great directors occasionally make bad movies, but it doesn't seem true the other way around. MOS wasn't bad, but it didn't convince me that Snyder could make a great movie

 

[KalMart]

Hate to brake it to you, but not only are you in the minority here, but Snyder and Goyer are both coming back like it or not.

MOS received a huge applause today after the movie, and my buddy kept saying when we came back to the house "that movie was so dope dude, it was so dope". My father couldn't stop raving about how excellent it was, and my 36 yr old brother loved it saying it was easily a solid 8 out 10 for him. The firstt thing my sis said to me when leaving the theater was "Wow that movie was really good". I brought a total of 17 people to see MOS in the 2 showings i went to and not one of these people feels as you do, I have gotton 100% positive feedback thus far. It's quite obvious people are seeing something differently then you, I know I sure am.

My first showing I didn't enjoy the movie as much as the second time cause I sat there over anylizing and nitpicking at every scene through the entire movie. Earlier today I went in simply to watch the movie and enjoy it, and man it really did blow me away after my second viewing not sitting there over thinking every scene this time around.

Wasn't that way in my theater, there was a sort of polite applause at the end but pretty minor. You could feel a palpable restlessness throughout most of it until the big action...lots of people leaving and returning, etc. I could see how people are finding the action stuff fun, as they did in a lot of movies raging from Transformers to Batman to Pirates, and so on...good and bad films that all enjoyed great success and were entertaining. And to their credit, too either way. So majority/minority doesn't really mean much in that regard. But I can see how a lot of critics found it 'empty' feeling as well as a good number of viewers who were maybe looking for a bit more than just big (and kinda' monotonous at a point) action. It was solid entertainment, but as a film is was rather lackluster. But it seems a lot of viewers had fun, and that's a definite step up from the last Supes movie.

I know they're coming back if they want to, if the film does really well. Just ideally, I'd like it to take IMO a step up creatively.

 

[Asr]

I say keep Snyder but toss out Goyer. (I want to see Snyder's super slow-mo in the sequel!) I thought Snyder did a fine job directing but the writing in MOS just had too many holes. As has been pointed out many times, the tornado scene (for example) was ridiculous on too many levels, which I blame 100% on Goyer, not Snyder.

Btw, I just finally got around to watching the footage from the black carpet premiere in NYC and noticed that Goyer looks a lot like Stanley Tucci!

 

[KalMart]

I say keep Snyder but toss out Goyer. (I want to see Snyder's super slow-mo in the sequel!) I thought Snyder did a fine job directing but the writing in MOS just had too many holes.

Btw, I just finally got around to watching the footage from the black carpet premiere in NYC and noticed that Goyer looks a lot like Stanley Tucci!

I too kinda' wish that Snyder would go with his more stylized shtick....this felt like he was holding back a bit too much, or maybe trying to make someone else's film. I don't like all of what Snyder more commonly does, but at least it's more the 'real him' so to speak. It's like even if you still don't like the film, you respect the effort more.

 

[KingKane88]

Wasn't that way in my theater, there was a sort of polite applause at the end but pretty minor. You could feel a palpable restlessness throughout most of it until the big action...lots of people leaving and returning, etc. I could see how people are finding the action stuff fun, as they did in a lot of movies raging from Transformers to Batman to Pirates, and so on...good and bad films that all enjoyed great success and were entertaining. And to their credit, too either way. So majority/minority doesn't really mean much in that regard. But I can see how a lot of critics found it 'empty' feeling as well as a good number of viewers who were maybe looking for a bit more than just big (and kinda' monotonous at a point) action. It was solid entertainment, but as a film is was rather lackluster. But it seems a lot of viewers had fun, and that's a definite step up from the last Supes movie.

I know they're coming back if they want to, if the film does really well. Just ideally, I'd like it to take IMO a step up creatively.

I can see what you saying. My first viewing seemed like the audience was a little drawn out, second showing the crowd erupted afterwards. Its really struck me as being really weird how I had 2 totally different crowds that responded so differently at the end, it honestly felt like i was watching a different movie this time around, very positive environment this time around. The main thing I did notice though between the crowds was that my second showing had much less kids then my WalMart showing, it was mostly all adults, and this movie seems to be more geared towards the adults and older kids as apposed the the Donner Supermans from the 70's-80's.

 

[KalMart]

I can see what you saying. My first viewing seemed like the audience was a little drawn out, second showing the crowd erupted afterwards. Its really stru k me as being really weird how I hax 2 crowds that responded so differently at the end. The main thing I did notice though between the crowds was that my second showing had much less kids then my WalMart showing, it was mostly all adults, and this movie seems to be more geared towards the adults and older kids as apposed the the Donner Supermans from the 70's-80's.

Mine was a thurs midnight showing...no real 'kids' that I can remember. But admittedly, NYC movie crowds can be tougher to please sometimes, especially if the movie doesn't have some good laughs in it.

 

[Lionbush]

I sometimes do wonder if some of the people complaining actually watched the film. Batman1115 for example, but then I think he is on some kind of wind up to be honest. Anyway, went for a second time last night so I could pick up on a few things that have been mentioned in here. Overall though I enjoyed it as much as the first time through. Its a good film and doesn't deserve some of the critic complaints. That doesn't mean it isn't without fault though, I'll put my thoughts down a little later.

I'll start with the scene in the Arctic regions. Lois was so clearly wearing cold weather gear when she was outside. No question. Also, why have so many people decided that it was -40 degrees? She was only told, 'be careful where you go at night as temperatures around here CAN REACH as low as minus 40...'. It wasn't a weather forecast. The sheer fact that she was outside means you can safely assume that she wasn't going to die of exposure. Besides it would have been a crap scene if she went outside, decided it was too cold and would go another night. This is a weak reason to slate a film anyway so enough from me on that.

I've also seen it asked how Clarke knew about the ship in the ice. The two army soldiers in the bar were talking about an object found whilst Clark was eavesdropping.

The fights and destruction were, for me, in line with the strength of the characters that were causing it. It's the first time I've seen a Superman film and felt that he is who he is. Thing is he was fighting against several others who were as strong as he is and who don't care about any collateral damage along the way. He's not really in a position to dictate matters. He just has to do what he can. Every person he saves (the soldier falling out of the chopper) means he is vulnerable to a counter attack.

The final fight with Zod was an impossible situation. Zod had lost the very reason for his being. His very programming was now useless as there were none of his people to protect. As he said, his soul had been taken. Superman was then fighting a super being hellbent of as much death and destruction as he could cause. He would never stop, until Kal-El was dead. It's pretty clearly stated. It had to end there and then one way or another, and the only way that could happen is by one or the other dying. Again, this is clearly stated. Superman was in no position to try to dictate the fight, even though on occasion he tried to take it elsewhere (punching Zod through the sky). Maybe there could have been a little more focus on Superman actually taking into consideration the damage around him, but to me that's all it could have been because of who he was fighting. At the end of the day Zod had tried to level the whole planet, so any destruction caused by them fighting was better than the end result should Zod have won. That part isn't my interpretation, it's clearly stated/shown during the film the consequences should Zod win with and without his machines.

My issues with the film are quite minor but stop this from being a great film in my eyes.

I'll start with the story. It was a good story but it felt crammed. There felt there was a lot not in it that could of, and probably should have been in it. The love story felt a little chucked in and rushed and a few things could have been explained a bit more. I really think that this film could easily have been an hour longer. The film was pretty much in two parts and it felt like he struggled to fit both parts in. It could have been two films, but with only one film scheduled he had to try get it all in. A difficult proposition, but it does affect the movie as a whole because so much was attempted to be accomplished.

My next complaint is regards to the score. I love the score, it another fantastic Zimmer production. But it was used far, far too much in the film. I felt at times like I was watching a film with music on the whole time. Music is supposed to add to scenes, not dominate them. And there are times when silence is more powerful. The scene when Superman is coming to terms with killing Zod for example. Just silence would have made that scene hit home a lot more than the music did. Silence, tears and the shocked look on Cavills face.

I will buy this on Blu Ray when it come out though and watch it with enjoyment. When this film hits home, it hits home as well as any other film I have seen. I really mean that. I welled up at least three times during the flashback scenes, especially the end when he is the little boy in the cape. Those moments are up there as some of the more emotional scenes ever. The little things that I mention above drag it down for me to a 7.5 out of 10 film.

 

[KalMart]

I sometimes do wonder if some of the people complaining actually watched the film.

On the flip side, I think some of us watch the film 'too much' and maybe expect too much out of it...especially superhero fans. So sometimes we all admittedly have to weigh things out a bit.

 

[KingKane88]

I sometimes do wonder if some of the people complaining actually watched the film. Batman1115 for example, but then I think he is on some kind of wind up to be honest. Anyway, went for a second time last night so I could pick up on a few things that have been mentioned in here. Overall though I enjoyed it as much as the first time through. Its a good film and doesn't deserve some of the critic complaints. That doesn't mean it isn't without fault though, I'll put my thoughts down a little later.

I'll start with the scene in the Arctic regions. Lois was so clearly wearing cold weather gear when she was outside. No question. Also, why have so many people decided that it was -40 degrees? She was only told, 'be careful where you go at night as temperatures around here CAN REACH as low as minus 40...'. It wasn't a weather forecast. The sheer fact that she was outside means you can safely assume that she wasn't going to die of exposure. Besides it would have been a crap scene if she went outside, decided it was too cold and would go another night. This is a weak reason to slate a film anyway so enough from me on that.

I've also seen it asked how Clarke knew about the ship in the ice. The two army soldiers in the bar were talking about an object found whilst Clark was eavesdropping.

The fights and destruction were, for me, in line with the strength of the characters that were causing it. It's the first time I've seen a Superman film and felt that he is who he is. Thing is he was fighting against several others who were as strong as he is and who don't care about any collateral damage along the way. He's not really in a position to dictate matters. He just has to do what he can. Every person he saves (the soldier falling out of the chopper) means he is vulnerable to a counter attack.

The final fight with Zod was an impossible situation. Zod had lost the very reason for his being. His very programming was now useless as there were none of his people to protect. As he said, his soul had been taken. Superman was then fighting a super being hellbent of as much death and destruction as he could cause. He would never stop, until Kal-El was dead. It's pretty clearly stated. It had to end there and then one way or another, and the only way that could happen is by one or the other dying. Again, this is clearly stated. Superman was in no position to try to dictate the fight, even though on occasion he tried to take it elsewhere (punching Zod through the sky). Maybe there could have been a little more focus on Superman actually taking into consideration the damage around him, but to me that's all it could have been because of who he was fighting. At the end of the day Zod had tried to level the whole planet, so any destruction caused by them fighting was better than the end result should Zod have won. That part isn't my interpretation, it's clearly stated/shown during the film the consequences should Zod win with and without his machines.

My issues with the film are quite minor but stop this from being a great film in my eyes.

I'll start with the story. It was a good story but it felt crammed. There felt there was a lot not in it that could of, and probably should have been in it. The love story felt a little chucked in and rushed and a few things could have been explained a bit more. I really think that this film could easily have been an hour longer. The film was pretty much in two parts and it felt like he struggled to fit both parts in. It could have been two films, but with only one film scheduled he had to try get it all in. A difficult proposition, but it does affect the movie as a whole because so much was attempted to be accomplished.

My next complaint is regards to the score. I love the score, it another fantastic Zimmer production. But it was used far, far too much in the film. I felt at times like I was watching a film with music on the whole time. Music is supposed to add to scenes, not dominate them. And there are times when silence is more powerful. The scene when Superman is coming to terms with killing Zod for example. Just silence would have made that scene hit home a lot more than the music did. Silence, tears and the shocked look on Cavills face.

I will buy this on Blu Ray when it come out though and watch it with enjoyment. When this film hits home, it hits home as well as any other film I have seen. I really mean that. I welled up at least three times during the flashback scenes, especially the end when he is the little boy in the cape. Those moments are up there as some of the more emotional scenes ever. The little things that I mention above drag it down for me to a 7.5 out of 10 film.

The film was an hour longer, Snyder cut 57min out of the film for theatrical release. Snyders final cut was originally 3:20 long. Im really hoping he includes all this cut footage into the BluRay release!

 

[Lighthouse]

I too kinda' wish that Snyder would go with his more stylized shtick....this felt like he was holding back a bit too much, or maybe trying to make someone else's film. I don't like all of what Snyder more commonly does, but at least it's more the 'real him' so to speak. It's like even if you still don't like the film, you respect the effort more.

I noticed this too. Ironically, I think fanboy's big savior, Christopher Nolan, might be the very reason for this movie's problems.

 

[Lionbush]

On the flip side, I think some of us watch the film 'too much' and maybe expect too much out of it...especially superhero fans. So sometimes we all admittedly have to weigh things out a bit.

Maybe.

I didn't mean it in a sense of 'did they watch it because it's a great film how can they complain' though. What I'm getting at is that some of the complains are against things that are clearly explained/stated/implied in the film itself.

I've no issue with people not liking the film for legitimate reasons. Some of the points made by those who didn't enjoy it I can agree with. Not everyone likes everything! I hate Forrest Gump, detest it as one shining example but yet it is considered by many as a great.

 

[KalMart]

I noticed this too. Ironically, I think fanboy's big savior, Christopher Nolan, might be the very reason for this movie's problems.

I think TDK emptied his tank for this genre...and that's not to call him a wimp or anything his bigger interests obviously lie in making more films. But I don't know how much he was really 'into' this Superman thing when he hashed out a treatment or whatever....whether he really cared whether or not there was another Superman franchise, or more about building more power of influence with WB. But anyway, to me MOS suffered from much of the same hollowness via overstuffing info that TDKR did, so it really makes me wonder if he shodl just leave this stuff in someone else's fresher hands.

The film was an hour longer, Snyder cut 57min out of the film for theatrical release. Snyders final cut was originally 3:20 long. Im really hoping he includes all this cut footage into the BluRay release!

Man...if this is true then that must have been the most bloated thing in cinema history.

 

[KalMart]

Maybe.

I didn't mean it in a sense of 'did they watch it because it's a great film how can they complain' though. What I'm getting at is that some of the complains are against things that are clearly explained/stated/implied in the film itself.

I've no issue with people not liking the film for legitimate reasons. Some of the points made by those who didn't enjoy it I can agree with. Not everyone likes everything! I hate Forrest Gump, detest it as one shining example but yet it is considered by many as a great.

I got you. But to me, the issue of the film lacking things isn't so much that it wasn't there in words and actions, 'on the page' if you will. It's that it was there but the viewer didn't really feel it...it didn't immerse them emotionally when it was obviously supposed to be emotional, scare them when it was supposed to be scary, etc. I see that a lot of films...especially with a writer/director who's dead-set in love with their own words. And when a critic refers to the film as 'hollow' or 'soulless'...that's what they mean. It's like the things that you're supposed to feel are there in name only, so to speak.

I agree in large part and it disappoints me because I saw a lot of potential, but it needed to be told and experienced better.

 

[Lionbush]

I think TDK emptied his tank for this genre...and that's not to call him a wimp or anything his bigger interests obviously lie in making more films. But I don't know how much he was really 'into' this Superman thing when he hashed out a treatment or whatever....whether he really cared whether or not there was another Superman franchise, or more about building more power of influence with WB. But anyway, to me MOS suffered from much of the same hollowness via overstuffing info that TDKR did, so it really makes me wonder if he should just leave this stuff in someone else's fresher hands.

Or maybe if WB wanted him to have input they should have just asked him to direct it in the first place, rather than as you say, thrust his ideas onto someone who has a completely different ideology than him.

We can only surmise though, the only people who really know whose ideas were whose are those people involved.

I guess the comment above about an hour being cut make sense to me now. Maybe the Snyder uncut version would make the film make more sense. Maybe we didn't see the complete picture as intended. That's a shame whoever made the decision to cut it didn't show more balls to say 'no, this is how it is intended and this is how it is going out'.