TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 3

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What i liked best about this movie is the fact they approached it as first contact event. That is one glaring hole in Avengers and all the Marvel movies that followed. Thor being an alien that vikings once worshiped as a God like something like that wouldn't change science and religion, literally there should be people worshiping Thor somewhere. However back to the Man of Steel it was a great movie that seemed to blow by so quickly which I think is a great thing for a movie over 2hrs long.I will give this movie easily 9/10.

The difference to me is....no one but some government men and a few scientists know that Thor is an alien. The people in the New Mexico town weren't told that they were being attacked by an alien race. The Kryptonians showed up in a spaceship that travelled all around the world and announced who and what they were.
 
Just got back from watching it a 2nd time. Loved it even more. I was originally at 8.5, now bumping it to a 9. I have heard people say that when viewing it again the pacing felt better. I felt the same way, don't know why that is the case. The first time watching it, I felt that last fight with Zod to be a bit tedious, didn't feel that this time out. So many touching moments in this film that I found absolutely beautiful, more than any other comic book film. Zimmer's score is fantastic.

My only gripe is that there still needed to be a scene between Zod's death and Superman taking down that drone. Just one scene to acknowledge the destruction. Other than that, a glorious Superman film. Finally, Superman is back! Thank you Snyder and crew!!!
 
I saw it this past Saturday. Excellent. Gotta hand it to Cavill. He wears the suit with confidence and subtle intensity. A decided, young and powerful Superman without cheesy one liners. I disagree with lots of critics, there is humor in this movie but no comedy. As an origin movie, I think its on par with Batman Begins, maybe one notch higher. The drone scene is awesome because of what it implies. You dont have to see him take it down, you know he can do it after all the justified action that takes place before it. This is Superman saying he is an alien willing to eliminate a global threat in order for the greater good: eliminates zod and eliminates drone for the greater good wven though Americans dont approve of it. It just so hsppens that ge landed in Kansas. Also if they go for Justice League, the Batman role's bar has been doubly raised. You need some one as good as Bale was and as imposing as Cavill. In fact, Cavill's Superman has more presence than Bale's Batman.
 
Yeah, I never thought I'd be asking for a bit less action in a Superman film. I guess I'm still not, but if you're going to put that much in have more variety. One thing I loved though was how much he used his heat vision. :word:

Yeah. And I STILL think he should have used more! :)
 
The difference to me is....no one but some government men and a few scientists know that Thor is an alien. The people in the New Mexico town weren't told that they were being attacked by an alien race. The Kryptonians showed up in a spaceship that travelled all around the world and announced who and what they were.

The kryptonians did go independence day style like here we are mother****ers. However in this age of tech and internet there is no way you could contain a story that big.There would of been video captured on someone's phone,pad,tablet or camcorder that would of went viral. Perhaps if you had the men in black working for shield then you keep first contact on the hush or if they just killed everybody. I don't think they killed anybody nor do they employ a men and black like squad.
 
Man of Steel is a little bit of a mixed bag. However, after giving it some time to sit in my brain, my gut feeling toward the movie is very positive. When I hear criticisms, my immediate reaction is to defend the movie's (many) faults. It's strange because I understand how the movie failed in some regards, but it still connected with me on a more basic level.

I think a lot has to do with the cast. Henry Cavill sold the character 100%. It wouldn't be the same movie without him. He has an earnestness and innocent charm that really makes him sympathetic and some one you want to root for. I thought Amy Adams' performance redeemed the character of Lois from how awful she was in Returns. Instead of just being a mean person who Clark happens to work with, she is fitted perfectly into the story and balances being a good person with extreme savvy in her field. The Kents were nicely cast. Everyone really talks about Jonathan Kent, but I thought Martha was the better of the two parents.

Beyond getting the characters right for the first time in a very long time, the movie's visuals did a superb job bringing Superman and his world to life. The visual effects were phenomenal, particularly whenever Superman flew and the fight scenes with Faora, who really stole the villain's show. The action was visceral and raw, and I really appreciated that they didn't hold back this time.

However, I do acknowledge its flaws. For me, its biggest failing was the script. It was a very confusing and badly told story. It actually made me feel pretty stupid because at some parts I really didn't know what was going on. For example, I thought the codex was the control key, and I thought the test tube Kryptonian babies were an illusion that Jor-El's consciousness was showing Clark. These confusing elements would probably be alleviated by a second viewing, but I thought a simpler story, with more emotional complexity from the characters, instead of the other way around, would be better.

While I complemented the visuals earlier, the movie got too carried away. I didn't like Krypton. I didn't like seeing Jor-El riding a flying dragon or his chase sequence. I really don't think we needed to see that much of Kyrpton, to be honest. The timeline of its destruction was weirdly paced and it didn't start the movie on that great of a note. The fighting was a little to repetitive, and there was too much destruction with very little consequence. I was fine with the idea of flashbacks, but there was no narrative rhythm in which they would appear. Still, I prefer it to a chronological telling of his origin. Zod was a disappointment, aside from his speech before the final battle. I thought he was a little hammy at times. Faora was much better.

There's a lot to pick apart, but the combination of the charming cast and top notch special effects definitely makes this a win in my books.
 
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after seeing it i can understand too much action complaints but to me there was'nt so much that it was too much action but that the action was'nt spaced apart enough

smallville and metropolis were maybe 30 minutes apart
 
The visual effects were phenomenal, particularly whenever Superman flew and the fight scenes with Faora, who really stole the villain's show. The action was visceral and raw, and I really appreciated that they didn't hold back this time.

I thought the same thing. I really think Faora was a far superior villian. I'd argue that she's one of the all-time top movie villians.

Mad Ones said:
It actually made me feel pretty stupid because at some parts I really didn't know what was going on. For example, I thought the codex was the control key, and I thought the test tube Kryptonian babies were an illusion that Jor-El's consciousness was showing Clark. These confusing elements would probably be alleviated by a second viewing, but I thought a simpler story, with more emotional complexity from the characters, instead of the other way around, would be better.


waitaminute. I thought the test tube babies weren't really there too. So if they were real then that means Superman aborted all those babies.:wow: So that's why Zod was screaming not to destroy the ship. I don't think I'm cool w/ that scene at all now. I mean, I understand that those embryos or whatever were 10s of thousands of years old but still that's awlful.
 
I thought the same thing. I really think Faora was a far superior villian. I'd argue that she's one of the all-time top movie villians.




waitaminute. I thought the test tube babies weren't really there too. So if they were real then that means Superman aborted all those babies.:wow: So that's why Zod was screaming not to destroy the ship. I don't think I'm cool w/ that scene at all now. I mean, I understand that those embryos or whatever were 10s of thousands of years old but still that's awlful.

There were no embryos in there, it was the machine that was important. With the DNA from the codex Zod could start recreating in the machine. The machine was empty as far as I could see.
 
There were no embryos in there, it was the machine that was important. With the DNA from the codex Zod could start recreating in the machine. The machine was empty as far as I could see.

Ah. Okay, got it. Thanks for clarifying. That scene still didn't make much sense to me though considering Zod was planning on killing Supes and removing the codex from his lifeless body. Seems a little silly to plead w/ him not to destroy the ship.
 
Ah. Okay, got it. Thanks for clarifying. That scene still didn't make much sense to me though considering Zod was planning on killing Supes and removing the codex from his lifeless body. Seems a little silly to plead w/ him not to destroy the ship.
Because destroying the ship is destroying the machine, which makes having the codex (Kal's blood) useless. In order to recreate the population of Krypton, Zod needed both.
 
Copied and pasted from the Rate and Review Thread:

To be perfectly honest, I thought this film was a mixed bag. On the one hand, I think the cast was top-notch; Henry Cavill mad for a decent Clark Kent/Superman, as did Amy Adams as Lois Lane, Michael Shannon did a great job as General Zod and, while still hammy, gave him a lot of depth. And Russel Crowe as Jor-El kicked all kinds of ass even as a hologram. As did Antje Traue as Faora. In terms of visuals and cinematography, it looks incredible (as if the trailers left any doubt) with some great special effects--particularly whenever Superman was in flight (and having him float up whenever he fell as opposed to just standing up normally? Brilliant!) And those fight sequences? Pure comic book goodness, which Zack Snyder delivered in spades. You literally could feel those punches and shock-waves as you saw them on the screen.

Unfortunately, when it comes to story and characterization, the film winds up being a complete and utter mess just like Smallville and Metropolis end up in the film.

For instance, that opening sequence on Kyrpton is gorgeous and very good sci-fi fantasy (even though it's basically Dune, Prometheus, the Matrix, and the Star Wars prequels mashed-up together) which I found to be quite intriguing and had good pacing. Problem is it's nothing more than a 20 minute prologue which could've been cut completely out of the film and you wouldn't have harmed the film in the least, especially since hologram Jor-El proceeds to explain and show Clark pretty much what we just saw at the beginning of the movie. To me, the film should've opened with Kal-El's ship crashing on the Kent farm, and we should've seen the scenes on Krypton and it's eventual destruction when Jor-El explains to Clark where he came from.

Also, while I believe Kevin Costner did a very good job as Jonathan Kent, I thought his depiction in terms of the script was awful. Granted, I get that Pa Kent wanted to protect his adoptive son and I do think his belief that the world would be more inclined to fear Clark makes sense, but the message he teaches Clark amounts to "It's better to keep yourself safe and protect your secret even at the cost of other people's lives" which is a horrible message for a parent to teach their kid. Not to mention it contradicts him also telling Clark that he was sent to Earth for a reason and that he was going to change the world, cause that means Clark revealing himself to the world eventually, doesn't it?And besides, Clark goes against his dad's very advice when he saved the workers on the oil rig. Oh, and don't get me started on Pa Kent's death scene with the tornado--not only did I think it was cheesy instead of poignant, the circumstances leading up to it do not make a lick of sense (seriously, who stops their car and gets out of it during the middle of a tornado? Especially since Kansas is tornado country?)

Likewise, while it's understandable that Zod wants to save the Kryptonians via the Codex, The World Engine really serves no purpose whatsoever other than to be set pieces for the climax. Think about it--Zod and the other Kryptonians, just like Clark, have superhuman abilities on Earth due to it's lower gravity, yellow sun, and atmosphere. By terraforming the Earth to be like Krypton, they essentially are giving up their opportunity to be literally a stronger race, are they not? Oh sure, there's initial pain and discomfort due to sensory overload, but we see they'll be capable of overcoming it in time, and any new Kryptonians who are born will become acclimatized like Clark did. (EDIT: Although, it was pointed out to me that the World Builder IS the most efficient and fastest way for Zod to get rid of the people of Earth, so there is that).

And as great as those fight scenes were, Superman really doesn't seem to pay much attention to all the collateral damage and the thousands of lives that are lost as a result. (Yeah, telling the people of Smallville to get off the street and seek shelter in buildings is going to do a fat lot of good while you're being punched and thrown around in the buildings there, Supes. And I sure didn't see you act the least bit upset over the fact that the town you grew up in was just virtually destroyed.) There's even a point where Superman and Zod are taken out of Metropolis and into orbit--thereby possibly preventing further destruction and loss of life--only to come right back down to Metropolis again.

That, of course, leads to the now infamous scene of Superman killing Zod. Sure, we're supposed to understand that he had no other choice and was in anguish about what he was forced to do. Problem is, Superman shouldn't have been in that position in the first place since, as I said, he already had Zod out of Metropolis beforehand only to come right smack down into the city again. Also, didn't he think about diverting Zod's face away from the family or covering his face? And how did Lois know exactly where Superman and Zod landed? Also, given the emotional gut-punch the scene had, having the next scene with Superman returning the drone be more or less light-hearted feels like emotional whiplash.

I know it seems like I'm really being harsh on this film, but again, there were parts of it I really liked. I think the idea of having Superman's origin be akin to a first contact/alien invasion story was clever, and I really liked how they told Clark's childhood via flashbacks. It's just once Clark put on the Superman suit, that's when everything about the film started to fall apart until logic and common sense was completely tossed aside for mindless spectacle. If the filmmakers had paid more attention on getting the script right as they obviously did on the visuals, this could've been a great film instead of an okay film with occasional, but far too few, moments of brilliance.
 
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Because destroying the ship is destroying the machine, which makes having the codex (Kal's blood) useless. In order to recreate the population of Krypton, Zod needed both.
:( why do we have to do so much explanation to them...

and after a day, the some branch of questions will resurface.
 
:( why do we have to do so much explanation to them...

and after a day, the some branch of questions will resurface.
:cmad:i know it is getting kinda of frustrating people bring up suppose flaws that were'nt there

all they had to do was listen nothing gets me more angry when people think certain things are plot holes in films when all they had to do was pay attention:doh:
 
Because destroying the ship is destroying the machine, which makes having the codex (Kal's blood) useless. In order to recreate the population of Krypton, Zod needed both.

What was the point and responding to what I wrote? Yes he needed both but he wasn't going to have both. He wasn't going to get Kal's DNA unless he killed him so pleading not to destroy the ship was pointless:huh:
 
What was the point and responding to what I wrote? Yes he needed both but he wasn't going to have both. He wasn't going to get Kal's DNA unless he killed him so pleading not to destroy the ship was pointless:huh:
:huh:did you miss the scene when jax ur took his blood
 
:huh:did you miss the scene when jax ur took his blood

Yes he took his blood. That's how he found out that the Codex was in him. He still needed to extract the Codex from Kal-El. That's why Zod had explained to Jor-el(Fake) that he'd extract it from Kal-El's lifeless body. So if you've just started to irraticate all humans on the planet and intend to kill Kal-El what point would it have been to plead not to destroy the ship. He should have had more success getting up out the chair and fighting to protect the ship.
 
:cmad:i know it is getting kinda of frustrating people bring up suppose flaws that were'nt there

all they had to do was listen nothing gets me more angry when people think certain things are plot holes in films when all they had to do was pay attention:doh:
The fact that so many people are unclear and confused by important plot points shows that the movie did a bad job telling a story.
 
Yes he took his blood. That's how he found out that the Codex was in him. He still needed to extract the Codex from Kal-El. That's why Zod had explained to Jor-el(Fake) that he'd extract it from Kal-El's lifeless body. So if you've just started to irraticate all humans on the planet and intend to kill Kal-El what point would it have been to plead not to destroy the ship. He should have had more success getting up out the chair and fighting to protect the ship.
Maybe Zod didn't want the Genesis Chamber in the scout ship destroyed because it carried water or some fluid only from Krypton that was needed with the Codex to recreate the species. That's why he freaked out, especially after the glass broke and all the fluid leaked out after the crash. He knew it was all over.
 
Yeah, sure. :whatever: Or maybe the creative team made the plot more confusing and complex than it had to be in order to distract from the lack of complex character development.

But get used to people not understanding a lot of major plot points in this movie. A lot of it was unclear ergo confused people.
 
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Maybe Zod didn't want the Genesis Chamber in the scout ship destroyed because it carried water or some fluid only from Krypton that was needed with the Codex to recreate the species. That's why he freaked out, especially after the glass broke and all the fluid leaked out after the crash. He knew it was all over.


This is how I saw the scene. Zod is flying minding his own busy. Superman crashes into the ship. His eyes glowing red ready to go HAM. Zod's like "No, don't do it, you'll destroy Krypton's future!!" Supe's eyes go normal like he's actually for a brief second considering Zod's words. I was sitting there like wtf??? Krypton's future means the destruction of everyone Clark's ever known including his mom (Who he had just gone beserk to protect) and his new found hottie. Makes absolutely no sense and that exchange above everything else seemed pointless to me.

This is how the exchange could have gone better. Supes crashes into the ship and at the same time is doing his heat vision thing which causes the ship to crash and explode. Zod later emerges from the rubble w/ his speech of how his soul has been destroyed.
 
This is how I saw the scene. Zod is flying minding his own busy. Superman crashes into the ship. His eyes glowing red ready to go HAM. Zod's like "No, don't do it, you'll destroy Krypton's future!!" Supe's eyes go normal like he's actually for a brief second considering Zod's words. I was sitting there like wtf??? Krypton's future means the destruction of everyone Clark's ever known including his mom (Who he had just gone beserk to protect) and his new found hottie. Makes absolutely no sense and that exchange above everything else seemed pointless to me.

This is how the exchange could have gone better. Supes crashes into the ship and at the same time is doing his heat vision thing which causes the ship to crash and explode. Zod later emerges from the rubble w/ his speech of how his soul has been destroyed.

Your version wouldn't have made any sense at all.

The reason why Kal-El paused was because, for a brief moment, he considered the implications and gravitas of what he was about to do. If he destroyed the ship he was wiping out his entire civilization, their future, their history and their legacy. He would be the last Kryptonian. In that moment he was making the choice of whose side he was really on. Was he a son of Krypton, or an adopted son of Earth.

It's a defining choice for him and of course he probably would pause, because Zod's words would have make him realise what the implications of him destroying the ship really are. He chooses Earth and does what he does.

The point of that scene was to make you realise the impact of what he was doing. The scene with Zod and his 'soul' speech was Zod becoming just an evil character now his cause had gone. The transformation from a character who had a cause, to someone just out for revenge was at that moment.
 
Your version wouldn't have made any sense at all.

The reason why Kal-El paused was because, for a brief moment, he considered the implications and gravitas of what he was about to do. If he destroyed the ship he was wiping out his entire civilization, their future, their history and their legacy. He would be the last Kryptonian. In that moment he was making the choice of whose side he was really on. Was he a son of Krypton, or an adopted son of Earth.

It's a defining choice for him and of course he probably would pause, because Zod's words would have make him realise what the implications of him destroying the ship really are. He chooses Earth and does what he does.

The point of that scene was to make you realise the impact of what he was doing. The scene with Zod and his 'soul' speech was Zod becoming just an evil character now his cause had gone. The transformation from a character who had a cause, to someone just out for revenge was at that moment.


He knew all that while being held captive on Zod's vessel. There was no choice at that point. It was already made clear that Zod isn't to be trusted. Zod was already in the process of terra-forming Earth. Zod has already threatened Earth and the people he loves. Trying to have some dramatic pause in the conflict just didn't work for me because of what was already at stake. I don't believe Clark cared at all about Krypton or it's possible future. The reason I think he cried out after killing Zod was the simple fact that Zod forced him to take a life not because he killed a fellow Kryptonian that until recently knew nothing about.
 
Also, Zod was already an evil character and the codex was just an excuse. If getting the codex was the most important thing then he wouldn't have ordered baby Kal-El's ship destroyed. He wouldn't have screamed at Lara that he'd find her baby. To Zod Kal-El was an abomination and already wanted to destroy everything he cared about. This is why I always say it doesn't matter the motivations behind these villians. They are simply villians in their nature. When you try to relate or see their side and reasoning it never makes sense.
 
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