TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 4

[br0adband]

If all we did was bas---errr... criticize the movie, it would get old quite fast indeed as I noted the definition of criticize the other day as "Indicate the faults of (someone or something) in a disapproving way" which is the most accepted definition - yes the word also means "to form and express a judgment of" as well.

There are two words at work and most people (making an assumption here) would probably agree that:

criticize means to point out faults and negatives

praise means to point out merits and positives

So when most people (assumption!) hear a criticism it's implied that the criticism is itself a negative (even when it's being used in a positive way to point something out), just as praise is a positive by default.

Hope that makes sense. When people critique things they're generally understood (damned assumptions!) to be telling us what's bad about something or someone, not what's positive even though the word (in its various usage forms) does basically mean to offer an opinion on something or someone.

I "gush about the movie" because I have discovered that there's far far more to like about it than not, hence I "gush" about those parts and since the majority rules, that means I like, even love the movie but I do point out issues with it when I have them.

Seriously, I do, I swear.

 

[Visualiza]

Broadband, my question to you is, why do you insist on reacting so harshly to those that criticize the film as opposed to those that praise it unconditionally? I see no difference, personally, and the unilateral praise has been far more monotonous than the criticism(it was awesome! Supes is so bad-ass! Cavill IS Superman! I loved it! Best movie EVAR!!!111 etc ad nauseum)

I have yet to see posters such as BlueLantern make an unreasonable or unintelligent observation regarding the film, and said observations have always been in the context of whatever discussion is going on at the time. So...what's the problem? I would argue that those with articulate criticism towards the film are passionate about the character and simply have certain standards that they would like a cinematic depiction to meet. This film meets that for some, others not.

I've definitely seen more mindless, unintelligible praise from sycophants than I have unreasonable negativity or trolling, but it seems that far too many people in this community are much more accepting of hysterical enthusiasm than they are even the mildest of criticism.

 

[br0adband]

I've definitely seen more mindless, unintelligible praise from sycophants than I have unreasonable negativity or trolling, but it seems that far too many people in this community are much more accepting of hysterical enthusiasm than they are even the mildest of criticism.

If only...

 

[Visualiza]

Is that supposed to be an answer?

 

[br0adband]

Is that supposed to be an answer?

To quote Kal/Clark:

"What do you think?"

 

[Visualiza]

Can't take you seriously.

 

[br0adband]

Can't take you seriously.

Thanks, but I don't need you or anyone else to "take me seriously."

If I offer any opinions, you'll offer yours, and it's obvious from your first post above that you have your way of seeing things and you felt compelled enough to say those things because of my opinions.

That pretty much covers it, right?

Someone praises the movie every chance they get, someone bashes the movie every chance they get, it's a balance of sorts. Yin, Yang, all that stuff.

It's discussion, simple.

 

[sf2]

I have question. Did jor el want clark to revive krpyton on earth? U know 'as the bridge for the people of krypton n the earth.'

 

[br0adband]

I have question. Did jor el want clark to revive krpyton on earth? U know 'as the bridge for the people of krypton n the earth.'

I think the intention - and this is just my own line of thought - for Jor-El wasn't specifically to rebuild the Kryptonian race completely, but more like after Kal has grown into the role Jor-El hoped he would fill and "learn what it meant to be human first so that one day, when the time was right, you might be the bridge between two peoples" that perhaps, just perhaps when that time was right he would discover a way to make use of the Codex information to at least create or allow some Kryptonians to be born and Kal wouldn't necessarily be alone anymore, and those Kryptonians - having been "born" here on Earth - would more than likely be able to coexist without all the problems we can consider might come to be.

I don't believe for a moment that Jor-El's intentions were anything like Zod was trying to imply during the dream sequence: that Earth and humanity were not worthy of existing with Kryptonians around trying to rebuild their own race and that this planet and the humans inhabiting it literally were going to be ground underfoot during the rebirth, if you will, of Krypton here on Earth.

It's pretty obvious that Jor-El (the real actual physically alive Jor-El) had no way of knowing that Zod would escape the way he did, chase after Kal and the Codex, let alone actually find him years later so... we don't know what the exact outcome of what Jor-El had hoped for might have worked itself out over time.

Interesting thing to consider, however.

 

[sf2]

I think the intention - and this is just my own line of thought - for Jor-El wasn't specifically to rebuild the Kryptonian race completely, but more like after Kal has grown into the role Jor-El hoped he would fill and "learn what it meant to be human first so that one day, when the time was right, you might be the bridge between two peoples" that perhaps, just perhaps when that time was right he would discover a way to make use of the Codex information to at least create or allow some Kryptonians to be born and Kal wouldn't necessarily be alone anymore, and those Kryptonians - having been "born" here on Earth - would more than likely be able to coexist without all the problems we can consider might come to be.

I don't believe for a moment that Jor-El's intentions were anything like Zod was trying to imply during the dream sequence: that Earth and humanity were not worthy of existing with Kryptonians around trying to rebuild their own race and that this planet and the humans inhabiting it literally were going to be ground underfoot during the rebirth, if you will, of Krypton here on Earth.

It's pretty obvious that Jor-El (the real actual physically alive Jor-El) had no way of knowing that Zod would escape the way he did, chase after Kal and the Codex, let alone actually find him years later so... we don't know what the exact outcome of what Jor-El had hoped for might have worked itself out over time.

Interesting thing to consider, however.

Thanks. I like your explanation a lot.
It's sad that Clark has to destroy his kryptonian race in order to save humanity.

 

[br0adband]

Well it ain't over yet: the Codex remains inside Kal, the scout ship wasn't fully completely totally destroyed so the potential that something could be made from it still exists - perhaps Jor-El's consciousness was never fully deleted or terminated, who knows.

Also along my lines of thinking is that just because Zod and his crew had spent 33 years (I'm guessing they are implying Earth years because of Kal's age) searching for old colonial outposts and scout ships doesn't mean they found every single one of them.

Jor-El's consciousness tells Kal that "This scout ship was one of thousands launched into the void."

To me that opens a very large door for two possibilities:

1) Zod and his crew did find a lot of outposts and probably scout ships as well but certainly not every single one of them.

2) There could be a completely functional colonial outpost out there, somewhere, that's not only just an outpost but had been terraformed into a complete Kryptonian-style world full of Genesis Chamber bred beings.

Now, as for the second one there a lot of people will say "Wait, they had a Genesis Chamber on every scout ship, that much is pretty obvious, but they wouldn't have necessarily had a copy of the Codex itself to be able to engineer more Kryptonians with, right?" and to that I would say good job for catching that, however...

According to the prequel comic - which again I know not everyone has seen, not everyone has read, and certainly not everyone puts any faith whatsoever into with respect to it being the "new canon" of this tale of Superman - there's a panel were Dev-Em's character says the following:

"Once on the ground, I'll just activate the Growth Codex and grow some new Kryptonians."

Now, since I take that as canon (since Snyder and Goyer wrote the prequel comic), that would mean that while every scout ship has a Genesis Chamber and not the full blown Codex, it's entirely possible they had a small "sampling" of the Codex with enough information to kickstart the population on worlds deemed worth of terraforming in the first place. It wouldn't be logical to assume that a crew of 4-8 Kryptonians on a scout ship could then be expected to fully populate such a world any more than it would be to assume that once outposts were set up that Kryptonians from the home world itself would make the journey to said outposts.

Jor-El says specifically "Long ago, in the era of expansion, our race spread out through the stars, seeking new worlds to settle upon."

Two important words there: expansion and worlds - plural - meaning they weren't content with just being only on Krypton, they wanted to spread and populate other worlds in other systems and not just leave the home world behind.

So... Kal could kickstart the scout ship or maybe even be able to fix it up at some point (it's crashed on Earth twice now, somewhat tough I think) and perhaps do something along those lines, or it could be rebuilt and made space worthy so he's capable of going off in search of... whatever.

I just had another thought as well: since everyone is trying to speculate on the next movie and what might happen, consider this.

If LexCorp gets ahold of the scout ship (I think Kal will remove it and every piece of Kryptonian tech from Metropolis and anywhere else, personally) and the remnants of the Genesis Chamber, and if there's a small sampling of the Codex as mentioned in the prequel comic, that could lend towards Lex being able to create an engineered Kryptonian... perhaps as has been suggested, Doomsday ? Hrmmm?

All sorts of possibilities.

 

[Willi Berg]

Well it ain't over yet: the Codex remains inside Kal, the scout ship wasn't fully completely totally destroyed so the potential that something could be made from it still exists - perhaps Jor-El's consciousness was never fully deleted or terminated, who knows.

Also along my lines of thinking is that just because Zod and his crew had spent 33 years (I'm guessing they are implying Earth years because of Kal's age) searching for old colonial outposts and scout ships doesn't mean they found every single one of them.

Jor-El's consciousness tells Kal that "This scout ship was one of thousands launched into the void."

To me that opens a very large door for two possibilities:

1) Zod and his crew did find a lot of outposts and probably scout ships as well but certainly not every single one of them.

2) There could be a completely functional colonial outpost out there, somewhere, that's not only just an outpost but had been terraformed into a complete Kryptonian-style world full of Genesis Chamber bred beings.

Now, as for the second one there a lot of people will say "Wait, they had a Genesis Chamber on every scout ship, that much is pretty obvious, but they wouldn't have necessarily had a copy of the Codex itself to be able to engineer more Kryptonians with, right?" and to that I would say good job for catching that, however...

According to the prequel comic - which again I know not everyone has seen, not everyone has read, and certainly not everyone puts any faith whatsoever into with respect to it being the "new canon" of this tale of Superman - there's a panel were Dev-Em's character says the following:

"Once on the ground, I'll just activate the Growth Codex and grow some new Kryptonians."

Now, since I take that as canon (since Snyder and Goyer wrote the prequel comic), that would mean that while every scout ship has a Genesis Chamber and not the full blown Codex, it's entirely possible they had a small "sampling" of the Codex with enough information to kickstart the population on worlds deemed worth of terraforming in the first place. It wouldn't be logical to assume that a crew of 4-8 Kryptonians on a scout ship could then be expected to fully populate such a world any more than it would be to assume that once outposts were set up that Kryptonians from the home world itself would make the journey to said outposts.

Jor-El says specifically "Long ago, in the era of expansion, our race spread out through the stars, seeking new worlds to settle upon."

Two important words there: expansion and worlds - plural - meaning they weren't content with just being only on Krypton, they wanted to spread and populate other worlds in other systems and not just leave the home world behind.

So... Kal could kickstart the scout ship or maybe even be able to fix it up at some point (it's crashed on Earth twice now, somewhat tough I think) and perhaps do something along those lines, or it could be rebuilt and made space worthy so he's capable of going off in search of... whatever.

I just had another thought as well: since everyone is trying to speculate on the next movie and what might happen, consider this.

If LexCorp gets ahold of the scout ship (I think Kal will remove it and every piece of Kryptonian tech from Metropolis and anywhere else, personally) and the remnants of the Genesis Chamber, and if there's a small sampling of the Codex as mentioned in the prequel comic, that could lend towards Lex being able to create an engineered Kryptonian... perhaps as has been suggested, Doomsday ? Hrmmm?

All sorts of possibilities.

Agreed. Good speculation of where they could go. I like the Lex idea and I like Kal using the scout ship to go into outer space.

And, yes, in the prequel comic it does say that Kara's scout ship had a growth codex to populate a world they were to terraform.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the Codex in Kal's body. Maybe tie that to Brainiac?

 

[br0adband]

It will be interesting to see what they do with the Codex in Kal's body. Maybe tie that to Brainiac?

Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again (even though I know I get some flak for doing it) - there's two words I have for you with respect to Brainiac:

Distress beacon.

If Zod and his crew picked it up, surely the potential for Brainiac to pick it up exists. There's nothing that directly says the distress beacon ever stopped broadcasting even after Zod took control of it - there's even the possibility that after it crashed in Metropolis (the second crash) that the distress beacon is still broadcasting as well. Also, there's reference in the prequel comic that the ship can self-repair too. We've got the easter egg in MoS, both Snyder and Goyer confirmed it multiple times over in interviews and podcasts, so my thinking would be something like...

In the next movie have a Lex + Doomsday type situation as I'd hinted at in that other post, and then perhaps, maybe perhaps in the next one (meaning after the second movie and into the third) Brainiac could make an entrance in some manner.

Hell, at the end of the next movie it would be an awesome end credits scene to show him picking up the distress beacon, if not the last scene just before the credits roll.

It just seems logical to me for this type of progression I suppose. It remains to be seen considering all the crap that WB and Legendary are going through right now, and Snyder won't be back here in the US for weeks to get a chance to do serious discussions over what's going to happen next because he and the others involved with MoS are all out on press junkets around the world hyping up the movie.

But it sure could get interesting as time passes.

 

[BlueLantern]

Because using the same plot device isn't silly at all. Not like they've not used plot devices from other films already.

 

[br0adband]

Because using the same plot device isn't silly at all. Not like they've not used plot devices from other films already.

Just curious: can you provide an example or two of a movie that's 100% original, with nothing - and I do mean nothing - that's ever been used before?

 

[mkilban2]

So, I didn't really know what to expect in this film. I've never seen a Superman movie or read a Superman comic book. Familiar with the gist of the character (sent here from krypton, has every super power ever, weak to green space rock ) but anyways I'll post my review or reactions I suppose

Overall I enjoyed the film, I'd give it like a 7.5/10. The action was a bit too fast for me but I assume that was the point in showing his and the others powers, I also thought the fight scenes got a bit stale and repetitive. I didn't understand how Jor-El was present throughout the entire movie and understanding/reacting to things currently going on but also dead. The final thing I didn't really like was Zod, I felt like there was nothing special about the character, he never once made me feel intimidated or that he was the higher power where as villains in past comicbook/scifi movies like Bane/Killian/Khan gave me the feelings that they could possibly defeat the hero.

I loved Cavill in the role, as well as the girl who played Lois. I thought as an origin story that can tend to bore me it was well done and I enjoyed it throughout. I'm excited to see what the future holds for the Man of Steel franchise and the possible future DC inspired films.

 

[-JKR-]

I finally saw it aswell... A fun, exciting, yet touching action romp! The first Zack Snyder movie I REALLY liked.

More from me later, if you're interested!

 

[BlueLantern]

Just curious: can you provide an example or two of a movie that's 100% original, with nothing - and I do mean nothing - that's ever been used before?

No one's asking for 100% original. Just a refreshing take on the genre, tropes and all. But doing almost exactly what's been done somewhere else or it being eerily familiar is one step two far.

It should always be a case 'wow, that's awesome and just like in Star Trek' instead of 'bloody hell, that's already been done in Star Trek'. It's really not that hard. A lot of it is in the execution.

 

[kalhawj]

So, I didn't really know what to expect in this film. I've never seen a Superman movie or read a Superman comic book. Familiar with the gist of the character (sent here from krypton, has every super power ever, weak to green space rock ) but anyways I'll post my review or reactions I suppose

Overall I enjoyed the film, I'd give it like a 7.5/10. The action was a bit too fast for me but I assume that was the point in showing his and the others powers, I also thought the fight scenes got a bit stale and repetitive. I didn't understand how Jor-El was present throughout the entire movie and understanding/reacting to things currently going on but also dead. The final thing I didn't really like was Zod, I felt like there was nothing special about the character, he never once made me feel intimidated or that he was the higher power where as villains in past comicbook/scifi movies like Bane/Killian/Khan gave me the feelings that they could possibly defeat the hero.

I loved Cavill in the role, as well as the girl who played Lois. I thought as an origin story that can tend to bore me it was well done and I enjoyed it throughout. I'm excited to see what the future holds for the Man of Steel franchise and the possible future DC inspired films.

If you did watch the movie you would understand why he's in there. Jor-El is a hologram a computer program with all of Jor-El's memories (He play an important role in this movie and was the reason they were able to defeat Zod's army). It's basically it's Jor-El with out the the body... Once Clark uploaded the program Jor-El's program and memories hard programs itself to the ships mainframe, therefore is now apart of the ship and can hologram anywhere in the ship. The hologram Jor-El himself explain this to Kal-El if you were pay attention. I think you should watch it a second time.

 

[mkilban2]

If you did watch the movie you would understand why he's in there. Jor-El is a hologram a computer program with all of Jor-El's memories (He play an important role in this movie and was the reason they were able to defeat Zod's army). It's basically it's Jor-El with out the the body... The hologram Jor-El himself explain this to Kal-El if you were pay attention. I think you should watch it a second time.

Yeah, had his memories and personality. That doesn't explain how he can relate and react to situations in the present day. He would have no memory or possible way of having prior information of what was to happen. Not saying it ruined the movie or anything but it was a confusing part to myself and at least one other person I talked to. The first encounter made sense, that Clark activated the ship and finally got to meet his father and get some information, every time after that when Jor-El popped up it didn't make sense to me other than just being a way for Superman to cheaply get the information to defeat Zod. Unless I just interpreted the whole situation the wrong way I dunno, it's possible lol

 

[Jaxon]

Because Zod knows that Lois know Superman's identity and maybe where to find the Codex. Her information leads them to Smallville. Or am I wrong there. Not sure only seen it once.

and that's what he says? I thought it was "You love these people so much, you can mourn for them."

I believe it was for 2 purposes;

1) Information - Lois mentioned that they got information from her
2) Insurance - a way to ransom Kal-El if needed

 

[kalhawj]

Yeah, had his memories and personality. That doesn't explain how he can relate and react to situations in the present day. He would have no memory or possible way of having prior information of what was to happen. Not saying it ruined the movie or anything but it was a confusing part to myself and at least one other person I talked to. The first encounter made sense, that Clark activated the ship and finally got to meet his father and get some information, every time after that when Jor-El popped up it didn't make sense to me other than just being a way for Superman to cheaply get the information to defeat Zod. Unless I just interpreted the whole situation the wrong way I dunno, it's possible lol

The best answer is watch the movie again. Your answer is in the movie. It's all explain there.

 

[scatterax]

Just curious: can you provide an example or two of a movie that's 100% original, with nothing - and I do mean nothing - that's ever been used before?

1, whatever the first movie ever made was.
2, Avatar.

 

[Mad Love]

1, whatever the first movie ever made was.
2, Avatar.

Avatar?

Pocahontas and a whole bunch of other stuff

 

[HighFivingMF]

Avatar?

Pocahontas and a whole bunch of other stuff

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