The Flash Tom Cavanaugh IS Harrison Wells/Eobard Thawne/Reverse-Flash - Part 1

On the subject of Cavanagh's return and Real Wells

Every time someone brings up wanting him back, and having the Good Wells be the way to do it, I have to wonder do they really get what they're actually saying. We fell in love with his Eobard/Wells. That's who you actually want back people.

Real Wells was a gooey puppy, and it was tragic what happened to him, but just in those flashbacks you could tell he's ultimately a boring character. He's Barry's science love, and Eddie's to good for this sinful earth persona. Again he's boring. Who wants to see a whole season of that? Cavanagh is brilliant, but even he can't make that interesting. Everything we loved about his acting was poured into his Eobard masquerading as Wells. Again fandom you want him back.

Also Cavanagh himself only wanted to play Eobard/Wells/Reverse Flash. Even in his most recent interviews he keeps saying that.

My thoughts exactly. I want to see more of his Reverse Flash. I could care less about watching Tom play the real Wells. Not unless they make him into a far more compelling character.

More over - I want to see more of the Reverse Flash period. The younger version as well - I want to see the events that lead them to becoming adversaries. I want to see how it all begins unfold. And at the same time - I want Cavenagh to come back as the older RF. Hell - let's see Barry fight BOTH RFs at the same time! The younger one and the older one! That would be a helluva thing.
 
I'm fairly sure we haven't seen the last of either Eddie or Eobard.
 
I'm fairly sure we haven't seen the last of either Eddie or Eobard.

The producers have said they'd like to use Letscher in the future, and we know Cavanagh will be back (presumably as the real Wells), so it'll be interesting to see how everything plays out from here.
 
That never happened though. The finale showed you Eobard being erased.

Holograms could show that, too, and RF has already used holograms for deception.

Every evil mastermind needs a fake-your-own-death escape plan, just in case the heroes ruin everything.

Clearly he left no Eddie clone or other assurances that his lineage would carry on to eventually produce Eobard Thawne. There would be no time rift otherwise.

There could be more to it than what we've seen on-screen so far. The clone plan works as long as Eobard keeps Eddie's DNA blueprint safe and can set up the clone at a convenient point in the timeline to replace Eddie.

We don't know what event caused the time rift, or how it works. There's only supposition, some by characters in the show and some by fans.

I don't know if the writers will use the hologram & clone solution, but the plot tools are already in place.
 
Except the only thing that did stop him was Eddie's death. If he had a get out clause then he wouldn't need to fake being erased since he could simply have carried on beating up Barry. A clone as back up is just silly writing. It's never going to happen.
 
Except the only thing that did stop him was Eddie's death. If he had a get out clause then he wouldn't need to fake being erased since he could simply have carried on beating up Barry.

"Beat up Barry; maybe lose and go back to jail" doesn't sound ambitious enough to me. Eobard seems more like a "beat up Barry; hide; work toward big plans in secret; beat up Barry some more" kind of guy.

We don't know that Eddie's death caused RF to stop, just that RF stopped after Eddie died. If the writers are playing it straight with us, then the causality is there. I just like stories better when the narrator is unreliable, when "how it looks" isn't the same as "how it is".

A clone as back up is just silly writing.

Not at all, given what the show has established. It even makes sense of RF's "kidnap Eddie, humiliate him, tell him my secret vulnerability, and don't go after him when he escapes" plan.

As for why the ruse, maybe something about the future was still "wrong", or he hadn't finished his real mission in the present. Now that RF's cover has been blown, it's easier for him to get his work done if his enemies think he's dead and erased.
 
He wasn't losing though. He would have had no reason to stop if Eddie's death was already accounted for. That's one of the places your theory falls flat. It's great you like an unreliable narrator, but you shouldn't go looking for it everywhere. If your theory held any water then RF would not have even needed to fake his erasure since he was winning against the Flash (who he is currently more than a match for). He would have simply proceeded to kill the Flash at that point.

What we saw was pretty much cause and effect (and a paradox that gives it the middle finger at the same time lol). Eddie killed himself and we see his ancestor the Reverse Flash erased and then the rift reappears and threatens the world (and possibly the timeline). What you suggest is that they completely devalue Eddie's sacrifice and make it as though much of cliffhanger was a hoax.

A clone is an inherently goofy concept here. For one we're not shown anywhere that RF's device that turned him into Wells is actually capable of creating a living clone separate from himself. Not to mention that RF couldn't simply leave the clone to its own devices and would have to ensure the clone met the proper woman that they had the right child and that their offspring did the same and so forth until he was eventually born at the right time and under the right circumstances. Not to mention that simply trying to attempt to take Eddie out of the equation himself would more than likely result in the same paradox we saw with Eddie's suicide. It doesn't make much if any sense and it's so convoluted you may as well just call it magic. Flash may be a light hearted superhero fantasy show, but I think it's set the bar higher than that.
 
"Beat up Barry; maybe lose and go back to jail" doesn't sound ambitious enough to me. Eobard seems more like a "beat up Barry; hide; work toward big plans in secret; beat up Barry some more" kind of guy.

We don't know that Eddie's death caused RF to stop, just that RF stopped after Eddie died. If the writers are playing it straight with us, then the causality is there. I just like stories better when the narrator is unreliable, when "how it looks" isn't the same as "how it is".



Not at all, given what the show has established. It even makes sense of RF's "kidnap Eddie, humiliate him, tell him my secret vulnerability, and don't go after him when he escapes" plan.

As for why the ruse, maybe something about the future was still "wrong", or he hadn't finished his real mission in the present. Now that RF's cover has been blown, it's easier for him to get his work done if his enemies think he's dead and erased.

RF was acting out of rage at that moment when Barry shattered his time ship. He wanted to kill Barry with his bare hands out of his seething hatred for him, simply to make him pay for preventing him from going home and condemning him to spend the rest of his existence in this timeline. He wasn't interested in making Barry live and suffer, otherwise if he were, he would have killed all his friends instead and left Barry alone. In the first place, all those years ago, he even wanted to kill young Barry himself, but settled for killing his mother to torture him as a consolation prize.

But right now, he wasn't thinking about some other master plan in that moment and how he could fake his own death by pretending to be erased from existence. He just wanted to rip Barry apart out of a primal urge for revenge. If he already knew that Eddie was going to shoot himself, then in the heat of the moment, he would've still proceeded to kill Barry and his friends. If he's killed them, then he has no enemies to think that he's dead, and he can get to work easily without any hindrance whatsoever. What's the point of leaving your enemies around and operating in secret, when you can operate normally when you don't even have any enemies who exist?

The whole clone theory sounds really reaching and as if it were simply pulled out of a hat. If the writers came up with an actual story like that, then we'd know that the show is going downhill.
 
Even with the resetting to the original timeline which inspires Eobard to change the timeline, it still results in a fatal paradox and not a causality loop. The alternate timeline (the one in which the show existed) is always voided. Hence the giant rift in space/time cliffhanger. That timeline likely can't exist in a persistent state and season 2 may be dealing with a broken timeline rather than a simply reset one (the pre-Nora's death timeline). Which could be backed up by Grant Gustin saying they will explore multiple timelines in the next season.

Your theory about one of Eddie's ancestors being killed to assure Eobard never exists to come back and kill Nora is a little off also. All you need is to ensure that Eobard doesn't exist in the original timeline also. Eddie (or any descendant pre-Eobard) dying in the original timeline would also ensure that. It's just that in the original timeline there is no cause or foreknowledge to make that possible.

Just copying this post ofmine from another thread, where I've acknowledged these points.

People said Eddie dies so RF can't exist to kill Nora. This creates what is known as a "Grandfather Paradox"

To explain, a GF paradox says if a Grandson was to go back in time and kill his grandad, he himself wouldn't exist. But if he doesn't exist, he can't kill his grandfather, meaning at some point in the future, he will still be born.

That's basically what would still happen to Reverse Flash lol.
He can't be born, he can't go back in time to kill Nora.
He can't kill Nora, she lives and Eddie doesn't have to make any sacrifices, meaning the Thawne bloodline will still thrive at some point in time, leading to the birth of Eobard in the future, meaning he can travel back in time and still do the deed eventually.
The Flashpoint Paradox events might play out, but still lead to the existence of Eobard Thawne.

If you think about it, if present day Wells/RF did get his speed, he could travel back in time to the night he killed Nora, meaning there would technically be 2 Reverse Flashes in one timeline.

It's why when Barry goes back in time, his future self will always be there. It's like BTTF part 2. Marty has to go back to 1955 AGAIN! When he goes there, the Marty from BTTF exists within that same period because he's already been to 1955, so that event still had to play out. Hence why I believe the murder of Nora Allen at the hands of The Reverse Flash WILL still happen.

As I said earlier, there are multiple timelines at play, it just depends on what happens. I still feel the BTTF2 explanation with the 2 timelines is the best in terms of sci-fi time travel lol.

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Another way to look at it is that if Eddie kills himself and doesn't have any heirs, RF doesn't get born. SOOOOOO maybe a paradoxical RF still exists at some point in time to commit the murder. I still believe it's the GF Paradox at play with regards to Eddie and RF.

If you think about it, while RF was marooned in "our" timeline, Eddie grew up not knowing that his descendant was inhabiting the same timeline. RF didn't keep tabs on Eddie to ensure that they both survived, he knew he would. Obviously Eddie's sacrifice means he died before he was meant to. IF Eddie had died when he was much younger (say before the night RF was meant to go back and kill Nora), I don't see how RF could travel to that night, if his ancestor had already perished. If he was too young to have any heirs, RF couldn't exist at any point in the future to attempt to come back and kill Nora. So this theoretical timeline would be where Barry has both his parents and Adult Eddie never existed.

The anomalies in all of this are the intervention of Future Flash plus Eddie's sacrifice.
 
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Yeah you dont need a master escape plan when you are winning. When did he set it up in he 2 seconds after Barry broke his ship? First he was getting what he wanted (to go home) and now he was about to kill Barry and his friends. (which he wanted more) He had no use for some elaborate scheme, he had already won.

Here is what I think, I think Barry travels to the future through the singularity which is where he meets Rip Hunter. (it may be a different timeline or Earth...in reality that is immaterial to my theory) Perhaps Hunter grabs him from the singularity because Hunter knows him dying will screw things up even more. Hunter explains that the singularity is actually time dealing with the paradox caused by Eddie's death. They will figure out a way to stop it, maybe even having Barry stop Eddie from killing himself.

What would be really cool though is if Barry travels to the "Post Paradox" future (their version of Flashpoint) through the singularity and sees how screwed up time is after it resets the timeline. Perhaps Barry never becomes the Flash and Central City is a mess. Nora is alive but his father is dead and Iris barely knows him and is married to someone else. Perhaps Oliver never becomes the Arrow or is some dark evil version of himself. (just in the episode, it need not cross over) As Barry realizes this world sucks he wants to go back and that is where Rip comes in and explains that the only way to go back is to fix the paradox. I am not sure how that will happen...

I dunno just some early morning fan theories I had, I am probably way off but it is fun to think of the possibilities :)
 
I get that some people don't like the clone and hologram idea, and I'm fine with that. There's no need for the demeaning tone, though, that these people are taking in their replies. I posted the idea because I like the RF character and hope to see the actor return in that role rather than as an alternate-timeline version of Wells. I'll be happy to discuss the limitations of this idea, such as the assumption about how the disguise machine works. I'll talk to people about the idea's internal consistency and about how it fits with the show; I won't reply to posts that criticize part of the idea while ignoring other relevant parts. I'll reply thoughtfully to reasoned criticism. Posts that insult the idea rather than criticize it will put their authors on my ignore list.
 
Just because I say the idea doesn't make sense or is silly does not mean I'm demeaning you.
 
Just because I say the idea doesn't make sense or is silly does not mean I'm demeaning you.

Agreed. The Infernal has disagreed with my ideas, with sound reasoning too, but I don't take it in a demeaning way. It's just fan/nerd debate, from what I've seen he hasn't attacked you, hasn't seemed malicious to me anyway.

That's the thing about communicating online and via text, without hearing the voice or seeing body language/facial expressions, things can be taken the wrong way. My ex was like that :loco: LOL!
 
Why does Reverse Flash keep up the constant vibration after his real identity is revealed?

I thought he was just using it as a disguise.
 
Maybe he simply thought it was more intimidating.
Or the showrunners thought it looked cool.
:shrug:
 
Maybe he simply thought it was more intimidating.
Or the showrunners thought it looked cool.
:shrug:

It does make him look scary and is cool, but unnecessary once Barry knows the truth - both from an in-universe and production expense perspective.
 
I thought he did it because he preferred it personally. He already thinks he's better than everyone maybe it's part of his god complex.
 
I honestly didn't know that Cavanagh was Canadian ! That makes him even cooler (although I'm biased, being from Canada originally myself).

Looking forward to seeing him back for season 2 of Flash !
 
I don't think we have seen the last of him, the show runners know how much people love him. And Eddie's body got sucked into the wormhole, it could end anywhere, like some place were he is brought back to life. He may even come back as the RF himself.
 
Alright I have a question, and it's probably already been brought up, or I'm just really blonde. If Eobard is from the future, like 130 years into the future, then how did he meet Barry just a decade from now? Is Barry like, immortal now? That doesn't sound right but otherwise I'm just confused.
 
alright i have a question, and it's probably already been brought up, or i'm just really blonde. If eobard is from the future, like 130 years into the future, then how did he meet barry just a decade from now? Is barry like, immortal now? That doesn't sound right but otherwise i'm just confused.

Time Travel.
 
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I get that so did he go back to 2024(ish) on a whim or just for the flash?

Well, they haven't shown the beginning of Eobard's feud with the Flash yet, since we haven't seen Eobard's first encounter with the Flash and why he hates him, in the comics he's an obsessive fan of the Flash and his powers and experiments on himself to get the Flash's powers so he can travel back in time and meet him. Since a whole lot of Time Travel shenanigans occur after that lets just say that things go more than a little haywire along the way and his being a psychopath eventually results in him becoming Reverse Flash and hating Barry Allen.

I assume the show will probably go the route of Eobard being obsessed with the Flash and going back in time to meet him, but we haven't seen Eobard's side of the story yet, which I imagine they may well go into in season 2 or 3 with Letscher as Eobard/RF.
 
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Well, they haven't shown the beginning of Eobard's feud with the Flash yet, since we haven't seen Eobard's first encounter with the Flash and why he hates him, in the comics he's an obsessive fan of the Flash and his powers and experiments on himself to get the Flash's powers so he can travel back in time and meet him. Since a whole lot of Time Travel shenanigans occur after that lets just say that things go more than a little haywire along the way and his being a psychopath eventually results in him becoming Reverse Flash and hating Barry Allen.

I assume the show will probably go the route of Eobard being obsessed with the Flash and going back in time to meet him, but we haven't seen Eobard's side of the story yet, which I imagine they may well go into in season 2 or 3 with Letscher as Eobard/RF.

Thank you that makes everything make so much more sense now.
 

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