The Dark Knight Two years later: Heath Ledger's performance

[Ace of Knaves]

What? He was caught on tape doing coke.

 

[Travesty]

There he confessed to smoking pot, not doing coke.

The segment shows a man[Heath Ledger] snorting what appears to be drugs off a table......"I'm going to get serious s--t from my girlfriend," Ledger tells his companions. "We just had a baby three months ago.

But you're right, he probably crushed up a multi-vitamin and snorted it, and decided to stay away from his new born, cause he was to busy getting healthy off all the vitamins he just took in.

​

 

[Brother Jack]

Crap, I don't know how I missed that. Sorry.

But that doesn't contradict what I already heard, that he experimented with coke but wasn't and addict.

 

[Agent Orange]

I don't care about how he conducted himself in his personal life, that was his business, bottomline, he was a stellar actor.

 

[jacobed]

So what he did coke, he's a young actor in hollywood with lots of money, everybody in hollywood has done coke at one point and time. That's not what killed him though, not even close. He didn't even overdose like everyone thinks, he took the wrong combination of PRESCRIBED medication pills for his insomnia that he was experiencing.

 

[heroesprincess]

still love his performance.

 

[Travesty]

Amazing performance, but it still doesn't feel like The Joker to me.

Same here.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

He was the definitive on screen Joker.

 

[Travesty]

He was the definitive on screen Joker.

Definitive? The most un-funny Joker we've seen, and you think that's "definitive"? When I look up who The Joker is, I don't think it should say, "a villainous combatant of Batman, who looks like a heroin addict, with scars on his face, doesn't tell that many jokes, and doesn't use any gadgets as jokes".

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Definitive? The most un-funny Joker we've seen, and you think that's "definitive"? When I look up who The Joker is, I don't think it should say, "a villainous combatant of Batman, who looks like a heroin addict, with scars on his face, doesn't tell that many jokes, and doesn't use any gadgets as jokes".

Yes definitive. He had me laughing in nearly every scene he appeared in. Throw out some examples:

- Mob meeting, the pencil trick, asking the mob did their balls drop off, his hilarious and blunt "Yeah" response to Gambol's outrage about taking their money and walking away.
- The party crash, where he was sampling the hor dourves, and taking people's champagne while issuing his threats, slapping people's faces saying "I need to talk to Harvey, about something very little", throwing Rachel out the window "Very poor choice of words"
- Bat Pod chase sequence, "Harvey Harvey Harvey Dent....excuse me I want to drive", going looney on his henchman that got electrocuted, "Can you please just give me minute" when Gordon intercepts him trying to kill Batman etc. Oh and the Slaughter is the best medicine truck was great touch.
- Clapping at Gordon's promotion
- Laughing hysterically when Batman beat him senseless in the interrogation room
- The whole Nurse Joker segment. Audiences wet themselves laughing at that one.
- Jokerizing his victims by painting them in his make up and giving them the cut smile. Even leaving his Joker cards at some of his crime scenes.
- Hanging Mike Engel upside with a painted smile to deliver his threat to Gotham

Unfunny my ass. He was hilariously brilliant, and also really menacing when he needed to be. The home movie of the phoney Batman, or telling the scar stories instantly spring to mind.

Perfect balance of humour and menace. Yes indeed the definitive Joker. The make up and cut smile were aesthetic that still delivered a creepy clown visual in a purple suit.

 

[Travesty]

I think the 'pencil trick' and "very poor choice of words" were the only things I found funny. Other then that, none of those. And I don't know where you saw the movie, but even those scenes I just mentioned, I didn't see "audiences wetting themselves" with laughter, and I saw the movie about 10+ times in different theaters and cities.

I mean, I don't care that you liked him so much, as I'm not trying to sway/argue with you on that, but he's far from "definitive". Even his aesthetics are so against the grain, that I can't even see why you would say "definitive". Sure, he may be your favorite, by I think he's FAR from definitive.

 

[The Joker]

I think it's a matter of taste in humor there, Trav. Maybe it was his delivery of his lines and antics that always made me laugh at Ledger's Joker. Even simple things like that facial expression he makes at the old guy who tells him that he's not intimidated by thugs at Dent's party. In the hands of a lesser actor, some of it may not have been as funny.

But the nurse scene always got big audience reaction in the cinemas I saw it in here in Ireland. I think that was a general consensus. I think that, the pencil trick, and the interrogation scene where the scenes that sparked the biggest audience reaction overall.

 

[Travesty]

I think it's a matter of taste in humor there, Trav. Maybe it was his delivery of his lines and antics that always made me laugh at Ledger's Joker. In the hands of a lesser actor, some of it may not have been as funny.

But the nurse scene always got big audience reaction in the cinemas I saw it in here in Ireland. I think that was a general consensus. I think that, the pencil trick, and the interrogation scene where the scenes that sparked the biggest audience reaction overall.

I understand that humor is very subjective, as I do stand-up two days a week, but that's not entirely my point. TDK-Joker isn't really that funny, aesthetically doesn't really look like the "true" Joker, and didn't really use that many pranks/gadgets. I mean, a definitive Joker would be perma-white, and again, I'm not trying to get into an argument of preference, but TDK-Joker is far from "definitive" as it gets, and I'm sure those were Nolan's intentions.

 

[The Joker]

I understand that humor is very subjective, as I do stand-up two days a week, but that's not entirely my point. TDK-Joker isn't really that funny, aesthetically doesn't really look like the "true" Joker, and didn't really use that many pranks/gadgets. I mean, a definitive Joker would be perma-white, and again, I'm not trying to get into an argument of preference, but TDK-Joker is far from "definitive" as it gets, and I'm sure those were Nolan's intentions.

Well, I don't like using the word definitive myself, when it comes to characters like Batman, or Joker, because they've had so many interpretations over the decades. Most of which I love, like West's Batman show, Burton's movies, BTAS, Nolan's movies etc. All different. All great.

Aesthetics is not something that I'd crucify the movies over either. For example, Batman of the comics wears grey spandex, and a blue cape. The movie Batmans are all black. Or Ra's in Begins had none of his grand costumes like his green cape, grandiose suits etc. He didn't even have a motive that was true to Ra's of the comics. No lazarus pits, no Talia, no plan to preserve the planet's ecological balance. He was a much bigger departure than the Joker. White face, red lips, green hair, purple suit....they were all there.

Heath's Joker was an anarchist, something Joker has been many times. Obsessed with Batman. Definite flair for the theatrical. The whole proving the point of people being like him when push came to shove is derived from TKJ, as was the multiple origin stories he told. And yes, he was funny. The nurse thing being the biggest example. The humor was there with the character. Whether it tickled your particular funny bone or not is irrelevant. As you said, humor is subjective. But your stance of him being unfunny is just not true.

But out of all the Jokers we've had, he seems to have had the biggest impact on the Batman fan base. That Joker costume thread, for example. Nobody dresses up as classic Joker anymore. Even two years later. It's still Heath's Joker. Either in the purple suit or the nurse outfit.

I don't think an unfunny version of the Joker could have such an impact on the fans. That'd be like an unsexy version of Catwoman being popular. Or an idiot version of Batman becoming wildly popular.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

A lot of people have complained that Ledger's Joker doesn't laugh that much or tell too many jokes. It's when the Joker isn't saying things like, "You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses, would ya," or, "Talk about a happy meal," and instead only laughing at the moments of the sadistic nature that shows me he's really off the deep end. Like that's the only thing he finds funny anymore. That's much scarier to me than someone using a joy buzzer to fry someone or a cyanide-laced pie to the face, which is Nolan and Ledger were going for in the first place.

 

[thejoker]

I think it was one of the best performances ever although I still like Jack Nicholsons joker a lot more his jokr was more original.

 

[Agent Orange]

I think it was one of the best performances ever although I still like Jack Nicholsons joker a lot more his jokr was more original.

What?

 

[Crook]

I understand that humor is very subjective, as I do stand-up two days a week, but that's not entirely my point. TDK-Joker isn't really that funny

I'm sorry, but you could say that for every single depiction of Joker so far. He is undoubtedly a joy to watch, and he'll have his moments of hilarity, but "funny" is not something I'd so readily attribute to Joker as I would a comedian.

Heath's Joker garnered just as many laughs and varying audience reactions for his performance as any Joker of a single story. I would be hard-pressed to find an instance where I've laughed significantly more.

I don't think an unfunny version of the Joker could have such an impact on the fans. That'd be like an unsexy version of Catwoman being popular. Or an idiot version of Batman becoming wildly popular.

Precisely. Joker has been a pop culture icon for several decades now. The audience is more than aware of what they like in the character. If Heath's portrayal was as drab and unfaithful to the source that some are suggesting, it would have never taken off with the masses. Joker as a character is too close to the mainstream to be f**ked with significantly. As it stands, it's quite likely the most popular on-screen comic book performance to date.

 

[Travesty]

I'm sorry, but you could say that for every single depiction of Joker so far. He is undoubtedly a joy to watch, and he'll have his moments of hilarity, but "funny" is not something I'd so readily attribute to Joker as I would a comedian.

Heath's Joker garnered just as many laughs and varying audience reactions for his performance as any Joker of a single story. I would be hard-pressed to find an instance where I've laughed significantly more.

Which was my entire point of saying it was subjective. I didn't laugh, but you did, again, which means it was subjective to the audience. Sure, you agree with Joker(SHH member), but I don't necessarily. I see where people like it, but I don't.

The audience is more than aware of what they like in the character. If Heath's portrayal was as drab and unfaithful to the source that some are suggesting, it would have never taken off with the masses

Please! Talk to people who are DIE HARD horror fans, and then see the new Twilight fans(vampires). It's a night and day(no pun intended) difference. One likes a more traditional characteristic(traditional), and the newer class likes a more "mainstream/boytoy" approach(Twilight fans). Both are totally DIFFERENT from the other, yet, they come from the same "source". Sure, you can like both, or you can like one or the other, but to say both are the 'same', is asinine. TDK-Joker is much more different than most Joker interpretations....sue me if I don't like one interpretation.

 

[Agent Orange]

I see a lot of the Kane/Finger/Robinson, Grant Morrison, Alan Moore and Denny O'Neil Joker in Ledger's performance. The Joker isn't supposed to be laugh out loud funny -- his antics should be funny to him alone.

I think that some people are forgetting that Jerry Robinson was the Joker creative consultant on The Dark Knight and he was there right at the beginning at the genesis of the character. I think that it's a very loyal and very true interpretation with some very creative tweaks/quirks thanks to Ledger's brilliant performance. Ledger makes you believe that this maniac could actually exist and in my opinion that hadn't been accomplished before.

 

[Crook]

Which was my entire point of saying it was subjective. I didn't laugh, but you did, again, which means it was subjective to the audience. Sure, you agree with Joker(SHH member), but I don't necessarily. I see where people like it, but I don't.

I know it's subjective, but audience response to each Joker has been near universal. They've been polarized around certain areas of his portrayal, but most definitely not about whether he was funny or enjoyable. But let's ignore that for a second, I'm curious as to what version of the Joker that you laughed significantly more with? And particularly, why?

Please! Talk to people who are DIE HARD horror fans, and then see the new Twilight fans(vampires). It's a night and day(no pun intended) difference. One likes a more traditional characteristic(traditional), and the newer class likes a more "mainstream/boytoy" approach(Twilight fans). Both are totally DIFFERENT from the other, yet, they come from the same "source". Sure, you can like both, or you can like one or the other, but to say both are the 'same', is asinine. TDK-Joker is much more different than most Joker interpretations....sue me if I don't like one interpretation.

No, they are not from the same source. Vampires are akin to the concept of the superhero, which has branched itself into a growing number of differing tales and interpretations over the years. The difference with your example is vampires have had their own varying audiences for each distinctive property (like Batman and Fantastic Four). I'm not going to name every single franchise and movie that featured them, but I'm sure you know how unique many of them were (however good or bad).

For argument's sake, Joker has had much more limited exposure on a grand scale. We can count Romero, Nicholson, Hamill, and Ledger. That's four different eras and interpretations, compared to the several dozen vampires have had. And unlike the vampires, Joker fans are pretty much united each and every time he comes into the public spotlight. The sparse moments we have gives less leeway for the creators. You f**k him up now, you've f**ked it up a good decade for everyone, until someone else picks up the pieces. You f**k a vampire movie up, at best you alienate an audience who can readily look to other properties that very same week. See the difference?

 

[Travesty]

For argument's sake, Joker has had much more limited exposure on a grand scale. We can count Romero, Nicholson, Hamill, and Ledger. That's four different eras and interpretations, compared to the several dozen vampires have had. And unlike the vampires, Joker fans are pretty much united each and every time he comes into the public spotlight.

And this is where your entire argument falls apart. I know a ton of people who don't like Nicholson's Joker, because it's too "Nicholson". I know people who don't like Romero, because it's too "campy". I know people who don't like Hamill's, because it's not live-action, etc. The very fact that we're even having this conversation about my own opinion of what I like in The Joker, should show you that there is no definitive consensus towards every portrayal of The Joker. Sure, you may like them all, but I know of a lot of other fans who don't like every interpretation.

You can spin this argument any way you want, but I stand by my opinion, and I feel like you're deviating from my original point. Either you see where I'm coming from or not, I'm not asking you to agree. Just know where I stand, and my point.

 

[Crook]

And this is where your entire argument falls apart. I know a ton of people who don't like Nicholson's Joker, because it's too "Nicholson". I know people who don't like Romero, because it's too "campy". I know people who don't like Hamill's, because it's not live-action, etc. The very fact that we're even having this conversation about my own opinion of what I like in The Joker, should show you that there is no definitive consensus towards every portrayal of The Joker. Sure, you may like them all, but I know of a lot of other fans who don't like every interpretation.

Knowing "tons of people who dislike ----" does not invalidate my statement. I know tons of people who dislike TDK, but their numbers pale into comparison with those who like/love it. Ditto for everyone that has played the Joker thus far. It is undeniable that in their time, their portrayals were HUGE favorites. The term "universal appeal" isn't meant to be taken literally.

You can spin this argument any way you want, but I stand by my opinion, and I feel like you're deviating from my original point. Either you see where I'm coming from or not, I'm not asking you to agree. Just know where I stand, and my point.

You misunderstand my intention. Truthfully I couldn't care less if our opinions coincide. I was merely stating my stance, while simultaneously asking you to elaborate on yours (which you have yet to do). If that's nothing something you wish to expound, then consider our conversation done. But please don't mistake me for a fan that's trying to "convert" you.

 

[CLARKY]

Amazing performance, but it still doesn't feel like The Joker to me.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[elgaz]

As with all the best actors, when Ledger is on screen you can't take your eyes off him. It was truly a fantastic, unique and at times, chilling performance.