WandaVision WandaVision: season 1 Episode 9: “Series Finale” (Spoilers)

[Albert1981]

Well everyone's contracts will eventually expire, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be killed off. Chris Evans's contract has expired.

Even androids can die.

 

[RockSP]

When Vision was first activated in Age of Ultron, he was never cold or emotionless though. Even being reset to that state, he wouldn't be devoid of emotion. And since he does have the memories he wouldn't be at such a factory state.

Vision in Age of Ultron had the mind stone. White Vision doesn't.

 

[Lencho01]

 

[RockSP]

So you expect to see Billy, Tommy, White Vision, Agatha in an MCU film? or any other MCU series than Wandavision S2?

There is no season 2, so far. And yes why wouldn't White Vision show up again? No reason to leave him alive if they weren't going to use him.

Somehow I really doubt it. And they just used "returning sidekicks" that were recycled in lieu of being completely thrown away (see Darcy's absence in Ragnarok).

Not even sure what you're trying to say here. They chose to use some characters that already exist in the mcu. What's the issue?

If they do, I'll gladly eat my words. But this show certainly made it seem to me like they are gone for the foreseeable future. As in, until Wanda and Vision reunite and recreate them au naturel.

Re: the boldface quote, not sure how you can say that after seeing the last after credits scene.

Also, it isn't possible for Wanda & Vision to create them "au naturel", lol. Plus there is no guarantee that Wanda & Vision will reunite as a couple. I certainly hope that doesn't happen. White Vision isn't really the same guy.

 

[Dark Raven]

Even androids can die.

Yes but you seem to have a particular death wish for him.

 

[RockSP]

I have doubts that we'll see both Bucky and Sam back in the MCU following their show. Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan have nothing MCU related after Falcon and the Winter Soldier and if they did, it would have already been announced. I am of the opinion that whoever takes up the Captain America mantle at the end of the show between the two is likely to return. Now that could all change and Marvel could announce that Mackie and/or Stan are coming back for more adventures in the MCU, but right now, FATWS is the last thing they do with their respective characters. Based on the set photos of Hawkeye, it sounds like Renner is passing the torch to Haile Stenfeld.

I find this to be a strange assumption, and also highly unlikely.

 

[TheVileOne]

Just saying I think it would be boring to play "Data" in the MCU for the next couple of years. I think he would much prefer playing "goofball" Vision.

We don't really know how he's going to play it and what's next for White Vision. And how do you know it would be boring for him and he wouldn't enjoy it? Plus, it's work.

 

[Dark Raven]

Is Scarlet Witch A Villain After WandaVision? Every Hint

 

[TheComicbookKid]

2. Crime requires intent, and Wanda didn't actually know she was doing any of those things until the end. . . when she undid them. Even at the cost of causing her husband and kids to disappear.

Vision told her in episode 5 what she was doing to Norm and denied it.

He told her there were no kids in town and she denied it.

He asked her if she saw Agnes acting weird and she denied it.

 

[Iceman]

Regarding whether Wanda is 'innocent' or 'guilty'... I think the biggest issue those leaning towards the guilty side of the fence have is that it seems many of those on the other side of the fence feel Wanda has genuinely done nothing wrong.

I've come to the acceptance that she did something wrong... Unintentionally? Absolutely. But still wrong.
She is not an evil person but I personally think she is someone who should be somehow kept in check or monitored (somehow, I dunno haha).

But some really come across like her grief and lack of intention absolves her... Her mental state resulted in selfishness which caused pain to others, when she was initially unwilling to even investigate what Vision was talking about...

I didn't like the line Monica threw out at the end about sacrifice. Had Wanda replied something like "I should have stopped this sooner" or even as simple as "I don't blame them" would have fixed quite a lot.

Like Iron Man, Hulk weren't 'punished' for their bugger ups, I actually don't want Wanda to be... I want her to be a hero. And her feeling the guilt (even though it was unintentional) would go a long way...

When you’ve got that much power and lack of control you should really want yourself to have limits to avoid harming innocents, especially as an accident had already happened in the past in Civil War. I agree that a line from Wanda at that moment like you mentioned would have helped the situation a lot.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Not always. See: strict liability offenses

And I'd also argue that Wanda's level of awareness is at best kind of fuzzy, but she certainly isn't completely clueless about what's happening. The show itself actually seems confused on this point, as it varies from moment to moment.

The writing badly misses the line of what she knows.

In the argument with Vision she says “this is all for us” but also “ I don’t know how this started”.

One of those statements contradicts the other or calls into question whether it matters if she knows how this started. She kept it going by lying to herself and Vision. That was a choice on her part.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Tony Stark created a killer robot that tried to wipe out humanity and dropped a city out of a sky.

Captain America leaked out all of HYDRA SHIELD's secrets. Exposed HYDRA double-agents yes, but also leaked all their secrets into the hands of people like Zemo.

Those were choices made by the characters.

Stuff sometimes doesn’t go right even with the best of intent.

Wanda was just in a messed up state and reacting to what was done to other people she cared about.

She starts the show by wiping people’s minds by accident and ends the show by wiping a person’s mind.

So what exactly shows she understands that overrriding people’s minds against their will is wrong?

 

[scarlet-witch]

So what exactly shows she understands that overrriding people’s minds against their will is wrong?

When she and Fietro are talking on Halloween she asks him "You don't think it's wrong?" when he comments on it. That to me shows she knows what she's doing is wrong.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

When she and Fietro are talking on Halloween she asks him "You don't think it's wrong?" when he comments on it. That to me shows she knows what she's doing is wrong.

Plus she told her kids not to go near the street where the barrier was so she has some idea of what it means for them to be near the barrier so she does know what is going on.

 

[Donner]

Fietro, under Agatha's control, does a good job convincing Wanda that it's okay. Especially because he implies the townspeople are better off with her control. For someone who is grieving, it makes sense that she bought into his reassurance.

 

[Dark Raven]

When she and Fietro are talking on Halloween she asks him "You don't think it's wrong?" when he comments on it. That to me shows she knows what she's doing is wrong.

She was probably still in her denial stage of grief where she's rationalizing things and looking for others who will affirm her. By the next episode she was in a depressed stage. Maybe her guilt was catching up with her.

 

[TheVileOne]

so...i thought it was interesting that agnes said the scarlet witch is supposed to "destroy the world"...but it doesn't mention which world. maybe she destroys some other world and not the one we've seen so far in the MCU? maybe the world means the "world of multiverses?"

What if it's every world?

 

[Dark Raven]

In a way she has already destroyed the world: The Hex world and all that represented Wanda's whole world - Hex Vision and her kids. So the prophecy has already been fulfilled.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Fietro, under Agatha's control, does a good job convincing Wanda that it's okay. Especially because he implies the townspeople are better off with her control. For someone who is grieving, it makes sense that she bought into his reassurance.

But as soon as he displeased her she became okay saying he’s not her brother when she knew it was wrong from the start. That’s true of the series as a whole. Choking Mr. Hart cause he pressured them. The beekeeper. When Vision said something was wrong she rewound him or Monica bringing up Ultron she threw her through the wall.

The story is giving the message that she’s not responsible for her choices because of grief. That is was “ Agatha all along” but it wasn’t.

But in the end it’s heroic for her to punish Agatha.

 

[Donner]

But as soon as he displeased her she became okay saying he’s not her brother when she knew it was wrong from the start. That’s true of the series as a whole. Choking Mr. Hart cause he pressured them. The beekeeper. When Vision said something was wrong she rewound him or Monica bringing up Ultron she threw her through the wall.

The story is giving the message that she’s not responsible for her choices because of grief. That is was “ Agatha all along” but it wasn’t.

But in the end it’s heroic for her to punish Agatha.

The morality is grey. It's hard to know how much she knew or had control over. She couldn't tell Fietro how the Hex happened or why. All she knew was that one minute she was crying and the next Vision is there and she's living in her favourite sitcoms. And as the week went on, she realized she had control over her surroundings and could "rewrite" the story as she saw fit. It makes sense that she would react that way. She was completely, utterly alone and for a week, she had a family and friends and a life she always wanted. I don't see villainy in that.

Hawkeye lost his family and slaughtered people for 5 years so.

 

[Still Wynning]

I have to say, applying real world logic to the implications of the ethics and due process of superheroes’ actions in the MCU is kind of a fruitless endeavor. If you’re going do that, you might as well do it for every single major character in the MCU, like Black Widow, Hawkeye, Thor and Captain America, who have killed hundreds, thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people and committed so many atrocities before and during the events of the films they would have been put on death row so long ago. Hell, Hawkeye probably killed thousands of people alone within just five years post-Snap. With that perspective, Wanda, with her past actions and current ones in this series taken into account, like accidentally blowing up a small number of Wankandan ambassadors, and temporarily mindcontrolling an entire town in her grief for a week, starts to look pretty good by comparison.

Not to say that what she did wasn’t wrong, it was, but the show is more interested in and focused on how she deals with her grief and her journey throughout. By the end, she’s dealt with the loss of Vision, accepted who she is, and is a more complete person. She’s not a victim or subservient like she was in her earlier appearances in the MCU. She’s now her own person, and can make her own choices with a clear conscience.

 

[fan4stic]

2. Crime requires intent, and Wanda didn't actually know she was doing any of those things until the end. . . when she undid them. Even at the cost of causing her husband and kids to disappear.

She did know. Vision told her. She threw Monica out of Westview. She confronted the soldiers outside of it.

I am forced to make unkind comparisons with how people treat the Hulk, vis a vis "She should get consequences for his actions!" Where are all the people demanding that Banner spend the rest of his life in a cell?

Hulk is a a creature that comes out. Not what I call a similar case for Wanda. Banner also doesn't want to be the Hulk for the majority of his run. It's a curse, to him. He doesn't like it. He's never using the Hulk to get what he wants out of life for just himself. He's only like that, in a way, in Endgame. Wanda's actions reached a point where she knew she was doing something and kept on doing it to have what she wants, irregardless of others. She's not insane here, as far as I can tell. But continues with it.

And I'd also argue that Wanda's level of awareness is at best kind of fuzzy, but she certainly isn't completely clueless about what's happening. The show itself actually seems confused on this point, as it varies from moment to moment.

I think similarly. At least by the time we get to the Monica mentioning Ultron, and then she shows acknowledgment of the situation. And Vision confronts her with it in episode or so later.

The MCU's continued success has been a story of thoughtfully following-up on stuff, paying things off, not so much setting things up. I think they've earned a little benefit of the doubt at this point since we know it'll be revisited.

I don't trust them to. I don't think they've done that that strongly in the past.

Re: Ultron, I think we should reconsider how he was actually born, considering how the Mind Stone seems to have a mind(heh) of his own. After Ultron escapes from Avengers Tower, Tony tells Bruce they weren't close to developing an interface after Three days of failed experiments, so when the Stone's Power was integrated to the Iron Legion, it's likely that the Stone itself "decided" to do so at that point. So how much were Tony and Bruce actually responsible for Ultron and how much the Stone? Looks like that's certainly open to interpretation.

I don't know how much I'd put on them. But I think they were apart of it. With Wanda, as far as we were shown I think, she did it, and showed, at a point that she knew about it and kept doing it.

Tony Stark created a killer robot that tried to wipe out humanity and dropped a city out of a sky.

Captain America leaked out all of HYDRA SHIELD's secrets. Exposed HYDRA double-agents yes, but also leaked all their secrets into the hands of people like Zemo.

I don't justify what Tony did. I've preferred for Tony to have gone to jail.

For Cap, I see that as being more a consequence of his actions. A villain turning around and using something a superhero character did for their ends, isn't as similar to me as them doing that themselves.

But we are in the real world where a fictional god determines the rules of a fictional world

God is real and Jesus Christ is Way, the Truth and the Life. I've seen Him act in my life, and change my mind, heart and soul. I've prayed for help in understanding the Bible and in the same day, someone knocked on the door asking me if I'd like help in understanding the Bible. God is funny in that way.

I have always hated the idea that consequences and stakes have to be death. There are other changes that can greatly impact characters beyond completely removing them from the narrative. I am interested in seeing what is in store for TVA Loki, 2014 Gamora and White Vision.

There's the issue. They may not have to be. But the movies positioned it as happening and then have sidestepped it 3 times now.

 

[fan4stic]

It's hard to know how much she knew or had control over. She couldn't tell Fietro how the Hex happened or why. All she knew was that one minute she was crying and the next Vision is there and she's living in her favourite sitcoms. And as the week went on, she realized she had control over her surroundings and could "rewrite" the story as she saw fit. It makes sense that she would react that way. She was completely, utterly alone and for a week, she had a family and friends and a life she always wanted. I don't see villainy in that.

Hawkeye lost his family and slaughtered people for 5 years so.

She she showed she knew something by kicking Monica out of Westview and confronting the soldiers later, and when Vision told her what was happening. And she isn't shown to take any action against it. She hurt people to do it and she kept on doing it, even after being told that someone was in pain. She was hurting someone to get what she wants.

Yeah. I'm not into Endgame and how it handled some things, aspects of that included. But I think at least Endgame never had people trying to defend his actions.

 

[Donner]

She did know. Vision told her. She threw Monica out of Westview. She confronted the soldiers outside of it.Hulk is a a creature that comes out. Not what I call a similar case for Wanda. Banner also doesn't want to be the Hulk for the majority of his run. It's a curse, to him. He doesn't like it. He's never using the Hulk to get what he wants out of life for just himself. He's only like that, in a way, in Endgame. Wanda's actions reached a point where she knew she was doing something and kept on doing it to have what she wants, irregardless of others. She's not insane here, as far as I can tell. But continues with it.I think similarly. At least by the time we get to the Monica mentioning Ultron, and then she shows acknowledgment of the situation. And Vision confronts her with it in episode or so later.I don't trust them to. I don't think they've done that that strongly in the past.I don't know how much I'd put on them. But I think they were apart of it. With Wanda, as far as we were shown I think, she did it, and showed, at a point that she knew about it and kept doing it.I don't justify what Tony did. I've preferred for Tony to have gone to jail.

For Cap, I see that as being more a consequence of his actions. A villain turning around and using something a superhero character did for their ends, isn't as similar to me as them doing that themselves.God is real and Jesus Christ is Way, the Truth and the Life. I've seen Him act in my life, and change my mind, heart and soul. I've prayed for help in understanding the Bible and in the same day, someone knocked on the door asking me if I'd like help in understanding the Bible. God is funny in that way.There's the issue. They may not have to be. But the movies positioned it as happening and then have sidestepped it 3 times now.

Can you please keep your religion out of these discussions?

 

[fan4stic]

I have to say, applying real world logic to the implications of the ethics and due process of superheroes’ actions in the MCU is kind of a fruitless endeavor. If you’re going do that, you might as well do it for every single major character in the MCU, like Black Widow, Hawkeye, Thor and Captain America, who have killed hundreds, thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people and committed so many atrocities before and during the events of the films they would have been put on death row so long ago. Hell, Hawkeye probably killed thousands of people alone within just five years post-Snap. With that perspective, Wanda, with her past actions and current ones in this series taken into account, like accidentally blowing up a small number of Wankandan ambassadors, and temporarily mindcontrolling an entire town in her grief for a week, starts to look pretty good by comparison.

Not to say that what she did wasn’t wrong, it was, but the show is more interested in and focused on how she deals with her grief and her journey throughout. By the end, she’s dealt with the loss of Vision, accepted who she is, and is a more complete person. She’s not a victim or subservient like she was in her earlier appearances in the MCU. She’s now her own person, and can make her own choices with a clear conscience.

One is what Wanda does on purpose and the other by accident. She may not have intended to at first, but she kicked Monica out, was confronted by the soldiers, and told by Vision and she wasn't shown to take action against it, and did more, doing it to kids and even expanding her reach.

What the show is more interested in doesn't concern me. Snyder can be more interested in what he does in his movies, but that doesn't mean I think it's well done.