Warner Bros. Reimagining Sherlock Holmes

[Doctor Jones]

Yeah, seeing it again it's still awesome. I want to see how Avatar measures up in the second viewing.

 

[Deaths Head II]

I just saw this recently. As a reader of the books, the new interpretation of Sherlock felt kind of weird for me. But in the end I got over it.

It was a very fun movie and Robert Downey Jr was awesome as usual. I also enjoyed the main plot more then I expected to, though they could have played it up more since the concept behind it was very interesting.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Is Stanley Tucci Moriarty? Didn't sound like him.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Wait, don't you mean Blackwood? Because Tucci looks like Mark Strong, who played Blackwood.

My brother said he looked like Andy Garcia.

 

[ultimatefan]

I just saw this recently. As a reader of the books, the new interpretation of Sherlock felt kind of weird for me. But in the end I got over it.

It was a very fun movie and Robert Downey Jr was awesome as usual. I also enjoyed the main plot more then I expected to, though they could have played it up more since the concept behind it was very interesting.

It takes some adjustement indeed, but that´s part of the thing about coming with up a new interpretation, it has to feel different enough to be fresh and interesting for those who´re not already fans of the books.

 

[ultimatefan]

Wait, don't you mean Blackwood? Because Tucci looks like Mark Strong, who played Blackwood.

My brother said he looked like Andy Garcia.

It´s Mark Strong really, sorry, he looked like Stanley to me and I didn´t stay for the end credits.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Strong, Tucci and Garcia all do look pretty similar.

 

[Abraham]

The Mystery of the Sherlock Holmes Sequel

Due to Avatar's box-office-domination of the past few weeks Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes has had little room to spread its wings. Avatar, mear weeks after its release has already taken the top spot for the year - with Holmes only earning about 1/4th of what Avatar has done in the same time.

Despite this, the possibility of Holmes continuing into a succesful franchise may not be entierly nixed. The film had a modest budget of $90 million and has earned upwards of 168 million. Word of mouth has also been relativley strong for the film putting it in a similar place as 2005's Batman Begins which despite a small box-office-return had strong enough word of mouth to justify a sequel, one which went on to gross, at the time, record breaking numbers - though nowhere near Avatars continued dominince.

Another point of interest is that Batman Begins cost $150 million - a much larger price tag than Holmes.

All together this could mean that a sequel is a strong possibility, as long as WB is able to secure a better release date with less week-to-week competition. Thoguh it is unlikely that Ritchie will return to the directors chair as he has both Lobo and The Competition lined up.

The directors most likely to be courted by WB in the event of a sequel would be David Yates, Shane Black, and Christopher Nolan. Each of which would no doubt bring a unique persepctive on the classic character.

THE HOLMES HATERS

Sherlock Holmes and Watson are engaged in a mad chase up the river Thames. Their quarry is on a boat ahead of them, and as they pass by the many bridges of London, Holmes screams down to the men belowdecks to put more coal in the fire, as they must catch up. Just as Holmes' boat is about to get the bad guy, a tug blunders between them and they have an exciting near miss. Finally, Holmes' boat pulls up behind the bad guy boat and he and Watson raise their pistols. When the bad guy raises his hands, they shoot him. After he falls they realize he had just shot a blowgun's poisoned dart at them, and it barely missed, passing just between the two friends.


This isn't a scene from the Guy Ritchie Sherlock Holmes but rather The Sign of Four, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's second Holmes novel, published in 1890.


There's a steady stream of Sherlock Holmes haters out there, and while I didn't find the movie transcendent by any means (I gave it a 7 out of 10), the complaints about the film's perceived lack of faithfulness to Doyle's creation kind of get on my nerves, especially when they come from folks who haven't seen the movie or folks who are obviously not familiar with the original stories.


Of course, being familiar with the original stories isn't necessary; I have read only a handful of Holmes stories myself. But coming out of Sherlock Holmes I found myself fascinated by what did and didn't come from the canon, so I began doing some research, and I found the film to be surprisingly accurate and faithful.


First of all, it's worth noting that Doyle himself didn't take the Holmes canon all that seriously. He wrote this things to make money, and his relationship with his creation was cantankerous enough that he killed Holmes off just to quit writing stories about him (Holmes, of course, came back to life when the fans complained enough. Every weird aspect of modern fandom - the continuity hounding, the fans making demands of the creators, fanfic, all started with Sherlock Holmes). The Holmes stories can be hard to reconcile, as Doyle never bothered keeping track of the details. For instance, Holmes is initially introduced as a guy who only studies stuff that would impact his criminal investigations, but as the stories went on he was retconned into being a connoisseur of the arts as well as versed in ancient languages, none of which would be of much use when tracking a murderer. In A Study in Scarlet Holmes goes so far as to say that he did not know the Earth revolved around the sun, as it had no bearing on solving a case.


The Sign of Four is one of a number of times when Holmes uses a pistol. In that same novel Holmes' bona fides as bare knuckle boxer. He introduces himself to a prize fighter like this: "The amateur who fought three rounds with you at Alison's rooms on the night of your benefit four years back." McMurdo responds by saying, "Ah, you're one that has wasted your gifts, you have! You might have aimed high, if you had joined the fancy." (thanks to Wikipedia for pulling that out)


Watson also makes mention of Holmes' talent with a sword, although he never uses one in the canon. He does use martial arts; in The Adventure of the Empty House, the story in which Doyle resurrected Holmes, the detective tells Watson how he defeated Moriarty at the Reichenbach Falls - using the Japanese martial art of 'baritsu,' which is probably just a misspelling of the real martial art of bartitsu. It's fair to say that your familiar deerstalker cap-wearing Holmes (a note: he never wore a deerstalker cap in the books, although in Hound of the Baskervilles he does wear a hat with ear flaps) never busted out any karate.


Of course your familiar deerstalker cap-wearing Holmes fought the ****ing Nazis. Basil Rathbone is seen as the quintessential pop culture Holmes, but his Universal Holmes movies eschewed the stories' Victorian setting and moved the action up to the then-modern day, World War II. In Sherlock Holmes in Washington Holmes is essentially a spy, and he's all mixed up in a case about missing microfilm. Obviously other Holmes films took plenty of liberties, but most of those are dismissed as parodies; the Rathbone Holmes, though, is widely considered the Holmes, and most images you see of the character are based on this guy. Who fought Nazis in World War II.


Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes actually does a remarkable job of being in canon. You can pinpoint where in the stories it takes place, as it depicts Watson moving out to be with his eventual wife, Mary Marston, who met during the events of Sign of Four. Holmes' wardrobe and personal style are also closer to the original stories than any previous version; Holmes lived as a Bohemian given to depressions (and drug use) between cases, and he also dressed in the height of fashion of the day - he was something of a dandy. Rathbone's Holmes had a stodgy air, while Robert Downey Jr's has a more faithful anti-authoritarian vibe. Obviously this doesn't make the film good, but it's all part of the care that went into making it fit into the canon.


The place where Sherlock Holmes gets away from the stories is the scope of the adventure, as well as the tone of the tale. While Ritchie et al may have brought the characters back to the original vision, they've certainly been set into a story that has more to do with the pulps of the 30s than the penny dreadfuls of the previous century. I think this is a valid sticking point for those who are purists, although I don't think it's any worse than transporting Holmes to World War II or ignoring canon altogether to depict his CGI-enhanced adventures as a teen. Whether Sherlock Holmes works for you as a movie on its own is one thing, but the film's faithfulness to canon can't be faulted - only your knowledge of Sherlock Holmes can be.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Sherlock Holmes is already a hit and I do think that people like it but I don't think that this flick's word of mouth is as fantastic as some people are making it out to be. It's holliday season legs have been decent but nothing special.

I know some people are going to take this post as bashing it but I'm not bashing it at all.

 

[That-Guy]

I think the box office numbers have been very solid and just because Avatar is dominating doesn't mean that Holmes is doing poorly. Regarding the word-of-mouth thing... I'm not sure, really. People I know have been about 50/50.

I hope Richie does return for a sequel if it gets the greenlight; however, Nolan is also an intriguing possibility (obviously). Would he do it? No idea, but my guess is, if he did, the film would take on a more serious tone. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, since the stakes are usually raised in sequels.

 

[ultimatefan]

The Mystery of the Sherlock Holmes Sequel



THE HOLMES HATERS

Indeed the canon-obsessed fanboy is one of the great annoyances of modern pop culture, but it´s particularly ridiculous when they b*** about a character whose own creator didn´t bother to create a consisten canon to. And the b****ing fanboys themselves don´t seem to know that canon all that well, for, as this article points out, a lot of what appears to be "blasphemy" in Sherlock Holmes can actually be found in the books. Some people may have seen a couple Basil Rathbone movies and think they´re master Sherlockians.

I have a similar irritation with Star Trek fans, given that the original TV series had self-contained episodes and never bothered to build up a continuity, or with fans of The Simpsons who complain about continuity and timeline issues when the show never really bothered with that even in its golden years.

The article above that one puts the success of SH a little too down IMO, the movie is close to grossing 200m, which is a very respectable BO, especially for a movie that was made for under a 100m, is based on a property that doesn´t have grand sci-fi/fantastic elements, and is most likely the most successful SH movie ever,even with adjusted numbers. A sequel seems closer to being a no-brainer than just a possibility.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I think by the time a sequel gets the greenlight, Nolan will be doing Batman 3.

Shane Black would be a great replacement.

Despite Avatar dominating, I'd say it's doing pretty well. I didn't expect this film to do over 300 mil. I think 200 is substantial enough. Like BB.

 

[MOVIELORD101]

I think by the time a sequel gets the greenlight, Nolan will be doing Batman 3.

Shane Black would be a great replacement.

Despite Avatar dominating, I'd say it's doing pretty well. I didn't expect this film to do over 300 mil. I think 200 is substantial enough. Like BB.

Btw, who REALLY played

Spoiler

Moriarty

in the film? The actor wasn't listed in the credits!

 

[ultimatefan]

Mark Strong, who I actually thought was Stanley Tucci seeing him on screen.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I think the DVD sales will be good and that will indicate a similar boost for the sequel. Of course, they'll probably cast a big name as Moriarty to get the bulk of headlines.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The movie isn't even a lock for 200mil though so I'm going to hold off on saying that it's going to do Batman Begins numbers.

I thought that anything over 150mil would be great and it's done that so I think that it has done very well for itself. It's a hit and there will be a sequel.

 

[MOVIELORD101]

Mark Strong, who I actually thought was Stanley Tucci seeing him on screen.

No, Mark Strong played Lord Blackwood, not Moriarty. I SWEAR Moriarty sounded VERY familiar, but he didn't sound like Strong. Are you sure?

 

[Alex The Great]

Saw the movie today. VERY good, DOwney was great, very good acting and all the Deductions were fantastic, I was really hoping that the movie has no magic crap in it and when Holmes explained every single detail, It made sense.

Not many nit picks with the film, I can't really think of any.



Can't wait for the sequel......Though it's going to be competing with Spider-Man 4 and Batman 3 (possibly)

 

[Jennifer Walters]

No, Mark Strong played Lord Blackwood, not Moriarty. I SWEAR Moriarty sounded VERY familiar, but he didn't sound like Strong. Are you sure?

Mark Strong was Lord Blackwood, Moriarty was intentionally left in secret. Some say it was Brad Pitt playing Moriarty though.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Yes, lets forget Moriarty when we say his name more than once and Holmes saying "Case reopened."

Yes, let's go with that!

Hey I didn't watch the movie so what do I know.

 

[Symbiotic]

Anything after the credits? I didn't stay. Great movie though. Really good performances.

 

[El_Citrus]

There's nothing after the credits, although if you want to stay until everyone else in the theater leaves, there's great Irish music to jig up and down the aisle to.

 

[BestGirl]

There had better be a sequel. [BLACKOUT]Moriarty[/BLACKOUT] was really threatening and memorable for the small amount of screentime he had. I'd love to see a whole movie dedicated to him squaring off against Holmes.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I still think there were times where I thought he sounded like Brad Pitt. Maybe it was enhanced. It's not a stretch. Ritchie has worked with Pitt before and wants to hold off until te sequel and not promise the most too soon.

 

[Lighthouse]

Indeed the canon-obsessed fanboy is one of the great annoyances of modern pop culture, but it´s particularly ridiculous when they b*** about a character whose own creator didn´t bother to create a consistent canon to. And the b****ing fanboys themselves don´t seem to know that canon all that well, for, as this article points out, a lot of what appears to be "blasphemy" in Sherlock Holmes can actually be found in the books. Some people may have seen a couple Basil Rathbone movies and think they´re master Sherlockians.

I have a similar irritation with Star Trek fans, given that the original TV series had self-contained episodes and never bothered to build up a continuity, or with fans of The Simpsons who complain about continuity and timeline issues when the show never really bothered with that even in its golden years.

The article above that one puts the success of SH a little too down IMO, the movie is close to grossing 200m, which is a very respectable BO, especially for a movie that was made for under a 100m, is based on a property that doesn´t have grand sci-fi/fantastic elements, and is most likely the most successful SH movie ever,even with adjusted numbers. A sequel seems closer to being a no-brainer than just a possibility.

I'm pretty mystified as to why so many consider the Basil Rathbone films as definitive. I absolutely love Basil Rathbone. He has a very commanding presence, and a perfect antagonist in Errol Flynn's films. He looks like he walked right out of Paget's illustrations, and he always turned in great performances for the Sherlock films.(I think it was a huge lost opportunity to have Sherlock Holmes, who in the books was an excellent fencer, played by Basil Rathbone, one of the most famous swordsmen of the silver screen, and not have a single fencing scene.) Yet, I find Rathbone's Holmes far too nice and polite. Add to that a completely ridiculous Watson, and moving Sherlock to the 1940s, I can't understand how a serious Holmes fan would consider them as anything other than mildly amusing.