Superman Returns Was it really THAT bad?

[mego joe]

Really? well, with time, you might change your mind. Who knows? Life is full of surprises that change the way we see life forever.



how self-centered. You know? The world doesn't turn around YOU. We are all different, what works for you, it might not work for others. Sheesh!

SUperman's characterization is not based on me or you. If you understand the character then you realize SR is wrong. You also realize Payaso's understanding of S:TM and SII is also wrong. It's not me centered, it's Superman centered.

The world is bigger than you or me.

 

[stargazer]

El Payaso is Wise.

 

[mego joe]

El Payaso is Wise.

Doesn't mean he understands S:TM and SII even if your opinion of him is true.

 

[stargazer]

^^But your opinions 'must' be true, just because you say and think so, right? .... Your opinion is just that, an opinion among the vast sea of opinions on these films.. yup.

 

[El Payaso]

IT's not because it 'didn't happen in the comics' that SR is wrong, it's because the characterization is incorrect.

Incorrect or not, consistent with SII's Superman.

Didn't think I was trying to intimidate anyone.

intimidation: to frighten or threaten someone, usually in order to persuade them to do something that you want them to do

You stop posting or you'll embarrass yourself.

It's time to be aware of your messages. To ignore what you do doesn't make your actions non-existent.

SOrry if you were feeling fearful or intimidated.

Wrong again. The fact you were trying to make me stop posting doesn't mean it worked at all.

 

[El Payaso]

SUperman's characterization is not based on me or you. If you understand the character then you realize SR is wrong. You also realize Payaso's understanding of S:TM and SII is also wrong. It's not me centered, it's Superman centered.

The world is bigger than you or me.

Much to your grief. Every sentence in that post is about what you think personally.

 

[mego joe]

Much to your grief. Every sentence in that post is about what you think personally.

Again, you continue to show how poor is you understanding of the character and SII. And by the way, no matter how you try to spin the events of Superman II, the characterization from the Donner films will never be consistent with Singer's Superman in Superman Returns. Sorry.

 

[El Payaso]

Again, you continue to show how poor is you understanding of the character and SII. And by the way, no matter how you try to spin the events of Superman II, the characterization from the Donner films will never be consistent with Singer's Superman in Superman Returns. Sorry.

Again, you continue to show how poor is you understanding of logic. I point out inconsistencies in your post, you fight back with statements lacking of a background and unrelated to the post you quoted.

But a Superman that abuses of his powers, destroys a taxi for fun, quits his mission for a girl and then manipulate his mind without her permission is consistent with a Superman that quits his mission for his commitment to his race and abuses of his powers to see what Lois' life is like without his permission.

 

[mego joe]

Again, you continue to show how poor is you understanding of logic. I point out inconsistencies in your post, you fight back with statements lacking of a background and unrelated to the post you quoted.

But a Superman that abuses of his powers, destroys a taxi for fun, quits his mission for a girl and then manipulate his mind without her permission is consistent with a Superman that quits his mission for his commitment to his race and abuses of his powers to see what Lois' life is like without his permission.

It's just not consistent. It's not.

 

[El Payaso]

It's just not consistent. It's not.

Too busy to reply to my paragraph of arguments with something else than a bare statement?

 

[mego joe]

Too busy to reply to my paragraph of arguments with something else than a bare statement?

Yes, I'm too busy to rehash all the same arguments over and over again and waste any more time with someone who is so obviously confused about the character of Superman and the Donner films. Exactly.

 

[El Payaso]

Yes, I'm too busy to rehash all the same arguments over and over again and waste any more time with someone who is so obviously confused about the character of Superman and the Donner films. Exactly.

Your constant Seinfeld-type posting* tells me you're not busy but just unable.



*posts about nothing

 

[mego joe]

Your constant Seinfeld-type posting* tells me you're not busy but just unable.



*posts about nothing

I know it's easier for you to believe that, but I've been helping my daughter with a project on the computer and I've had the hype running in the background. But if it makes you feel better....

 

[SuperDaniel]

It's the manner in which he becomes a parent that doesn't fit. Superman may become a parent but NOT in the way the movie depicts. That's the problem. That's what SuperDaniel is trying to show.

Example: WHatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow?
Son of Superman
Last Son

These are all stories from the comics in which Superman becomes a parent. But the way, the manner by which he becomes a parent are all completely different from the way he becomes a parent in SR. The situation is so totally out of character in SR, that it is clearly NOT SUPERMAN. Read these comic stories. You will see how wrong SR is in it's depiction of Superman's character.

Exactely!

Superman in SR is totally out of character. Singer tried to humanize him so much and put him in a different situation that he completely forgot that is Superman he was dealing with.

 

[IamProdigy]

I actually became a Superman Returns fan once again earlier this month by watching it...so, yes, I don't think SR is THAT bad anymore; it's not as great as Superman I and II, but it is still a great Superman movie and another great movie to connect with Smallville, as I'm a fan of also.

 

[Mutagen]

Well I didn't hate it, the perfect actors, music, and cgi saved it imo. But it could have been a LOT better. I was a little let down, but I don't hate it. I hate the kid idea tho, man that's garbage.

 

[stargazer]

I actually became a Superman Returns fan once again earlier this month by watching it...so, yes, I don't think SR is THAT bad anymore; it's not as great as Superman I and II, but it is still a great Superman movie and another great movie to connect with Smallville, as I'm a fan of also.

Nice to hear! Would you like to share your favorite scenes of the movie with us? I'd like to know. I love talking about this film, which I love. You can go to the Best Scene thread. Thanks!

Well I didn't hate it, the perfect actors, music, and cgi saved it imo. But it could have been a LOT better. I was a little let down, but I don't hate it. I hate the kid idea tho, man that's garbage.

I think Jason has potential. I think he brings more humanity and dimension to the character of Superman, who is so powerful that it's important for the people who watch these movies to relate to him to some level, otherwise he becomes this god that is too alien and far removed from us, IMO. Hopefully, the sequel will be more to your liking. Give it a chance. t:
And Welcome!

 

[herolee10]

was SR that bad? No, it wasn't. In my opinion, it was GREAT! However, was it the best that it could've been? Unfortunately no. I've already expressed on how much I've adored SR but I'm just going to list a few of my complaints with the movie:

Superman had very little dialogue here, and most of his character arc scenes were cut, a.k.a the Return to Krypton Sequence which would've made the movie better in my opinion had they NOT cut it out.

The color filter really brought down the picture of the film in my opinion. I've seen some of the footage and stills when they didn't have the color filters on it, and honestly, the film would've LOOKED better without them at all. If you had to put a color filter on it, make it something like "Blue" so it won't make the film darker.

Less CGI when it comes to Superman's flying and more real shots of Brandon when doing flying scenes. If Christopher Reeve could do it when he was filming Superman with the limited budget and technology they had that time, then no doubt could Brandon have done it, who esepcially was training for doing his flying shots, only to have it wasted and replaced by very bland cgi models.

Make Lex more complex and sinister. Instead of his goals being on selling beach front property, it could've gone so much deeper and better than that. Have Lex say something like for his plans, like how he thinks the world today is so "filthy" in his view, viewing that it would be best for humanity to start over, hence eliminate most of the worthless individuals on the planet and start over with hiim emerging as the new savior of the planet because of how he is the superior being on the planet.


Other than that, I enjoyed the film greatly. I liked the realistic take they went with Superman, since most of the other comic book movies feel too much like their comic counterparts. In my opinion, I feel that if you could convince the audience that the world they're seeing is much like our own, only with a superhero in it, than it makes the experience more believable and better.

I'm hoping that Singer realizes his mistakes and does better with MOS, along with including more action and a supervillain for superman to battle with physically

 

[Mutagen]

I think Jason has potential. I think he brings more humanity and dimension to the character of Superman, who is so powerful that it's important for the people who watch these movies to relate to him to some level, otherwise he becomes this god that is too alien and far removed from us, IMO. Hopefully, the sequel will be more to your liking. Give it a chance. t:
And Welcome!

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I see your point, but I don't see the need to add this type of humanity. I like the aspect of not relating to me (I know not all feel the same about this as me), because I go to see a movie to escape my reality. I like Superman, because he's impossibly good and just for such a strong being, as well as some of the best powers around.

Getting off topic, I don't like the superkid, just gives another complicated issue to needlessly unravel. That and it doesn't feel like Superman. I don't know a lot about Superman, but I know that Superman doesn't have a kid.

And I am very much looking foward to the sequel.

 

[Mutagen]

was SR that bad? No, it wasn't. In my opinion, it was GREAT! However, was it the best that it could've been? Unfortunately no. I've already expressed on how much I've adored SR but I'm just going to list a few of my complaints with the movie:

Superman had very little dialogue here, and most of his character arc scenes were cut, a.k.a the Return to Krypton Sequence which would've made the movie better in my opinion had they NOT cut it out.

The color filter really brought down the picture of the film in my opinion. I've seen some of the footage and stills when they didn't have the color filters on it, and honestly, the film would've LOOKED better without them at all. If you had to put a color filter on it, make it something like "Blue" so it won't make the film darker.

Less CGI when it comes to Superman's flying and more real shots of Brandon when doing flying scenes. If Christopher Reeve could do it when he was filming Superman with the limited budget and technology they had that time, then no doubt could Brandon have done it, who esepcially was training for doing his flying shots, only to have it wasted and replaced by very bland cgi models.

Make Lex more complex and sinister. Instead of his goals being on selling beach front property, it could've gone so much deeper and better than that. Have Lex say something like for his plans, like how he thinks the world today is so "filthy" in his view, viewing that it would be best for humanity to start over, hence eliminate most of the worthless individuals on the planet and start over with hiim emerging as the new savior of the planet because of how he is the superior being on the planet.


Other than that, I enjoyed the film greatly. I liked the realistic take they went with Superman, since most of the other comic book movies feel too much like their comic counterparts. In my opinion, I feel that if you could convince the audience that the world they're seeing is much like our own, only with a superhero in it, than it makes the experience more believable and better.

I'm hoping that Singer realizes his mistakes and does better with MOS, along with including more action and a supervillain for superman to battle with physically

Some good thoughts there, I especially like the Lex Luthor idea. Seems like he could be a smidge darker. But Spacey was perfect. Actually I find that the whole script could be improved, everything else seemed natural and a great homage to Supes.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Then you know he'd never leave Earth and screw Lois over like he did in SR. If you don't understand this, then you don't understand the character. If you can find a similar instance then please show it to me. (Hint= you can't b/c there isn't one.) This story should have played out like Chaykin's "Son of Superman." That's the way in which this type of story could happen, not Singer's deadbeat dad Superman.

If you can't see how that's being a deadbeat, then you don't understand the full ramifications of being a deadbeat dad- caring more about yourself than your responsibilities of being in a sexual relationship. Period.

No. Superman in SR is not the same Superman from the comics or the Donner films. There's nothing more I can do to explain it to you. Double period.

In Exile, Superman left Earth without saying goodbye to ANYONE, not even his parents, this not only left Earth open to attack from the likes of Luthor and Darkseid, but it also left his loved one's in complete incertainty and worry.

In For Tomorrow, Superman endangers the WHOLE planet by activating the vanishing device, despite not knowing what it does or what it leads to, just because he felt lonely, the risk he took was so great, Wonder Woman felt the need to fight with Superman to get him to stop. Superman activated the device on nothing more than "faith" that it would harm humans, no solid proof what-so-ever. Not to mention in the same story he starts taking orders from a war-lord.

In The Journey, Superman went missing for months on end, WITHOUT telling anyone were he was, including Lois, his WIFE at the time, which resulted in Lois nearly being shot by river pirates, had Superman not been listening at the time and saved Lois she may have been killed, along with Jimmy. Not to mention, had Lois not gone looking for him and knew the location of his new fortress (were he was staying and not saving anyone), and if a group of villains hadnt unleashed a newer, more powerful Blackrock on the planet, he may have been missing for longer, simply sitting in his Fortress rather than saving people.

In Kingdom Come, Superman abandons mankind, because, in simple terms, he loses a popularity contest. I know there is more to it than that and that Superman loses faith in humanity, but is that honestly a good enough reason to abandom humanity completely for YEARS on end without a word to anyone (yes i know Lois was dead, but he still could have addressed others)? Not in my eyes.

I think thats more than enough examples for now, showing that even in the comics, Superman is flawed. Triple period .

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

was SR that bad? No, it wasn't. In my opinion, it was GREAT! However, was it the best that it could've been? Unfortunately no. I've already expressed on how much I've adored SR but I'm just going to list a few of my complaints with the movie:

Superman had very little dialogue here, and most of his character arc scenes were cut, a.k.a the Return to Krypton Sequence which would've made the movie better in my opinion had they NOT cut it out.

The color filter really brought down the picture of the film in my opinion. I've seen some of the footage and stills when they didn't have the color filters on it, and honestly, the film would've LOOKED better without them at all. If you had to put a color filter on it, make it something like "Blue" so it won't make the film darker.

Less CGI when it comes to Superman's flying and more real shots of Brandon when doing flying scenes. If Christopher Reeve could do it when he was filming Superman with the limited budget and technology they had that time, then no doubt could Brandon have done it, who esepcially was training for doing his flying shots, only to have it wasted and replaced by very bland cgi models.

Make Lex more complex and sinister. Instead of his goals being on selling beach front property, it could've gone so much deeper and better than that. Have Lex say something like for his plans, like how he thinks the world today is so "filthy" in his view, viewing that it would be best for humanity to start over, hence eliminate most of the worthless individuals on the planet and start over with hiim emerging as the new savior of the planet because of how he is the superior being on the planet.


Other than that, I enjoyed the film greatly. I liked the realistic take they went with Superman, since most of the other comic book movies feel too much like their comic counterparts. In my opinion, I feel that if you could convince the audience that the world they're seeing is much like our own, only with a superhero in it, than it makes the experience more believable and better.

I'm hoping that Singer realizes his mistakes and does better with MOS, along with including more action and a supervillain for superman to battle with physically

The highlighted ones i highly agree with .

 

[MARVEL-MAN]

Nothing, if you don't mind your male superhero having a female Gucci belt design

Amoungst the other feminine things Singer added to it, like womens cut panties. After all these years I still cant believe we have to argue with a few people over the obvious feminization that Singer did to that stupid SR suit that failed miserably. I mean, since it has been goofed on all over the web since it first came out, I just think we would be done having to argue over this craptastical suit with the minority who like it.

Totally agree with what you've stated here. Singer's sorry alteration of this "classic" suit was truly the beginning of the end for this ill-fated movie. What a boob!

 

[SFII]

ya know, when the movie first came out, i was all caught up in the hype like most people. i even saw it 2 times in the theater. and i really enjoyed it. i even bought the dvd.
but, as time has gone by, after watching it close to 10 times total, it has lost it's appeal.
last night i even tried watching it, and it just felt boring. it was too long, too somber, and a boring plot. ofcourse there were times within the movie that i found myself enjoy a little bit, but for the most part, i realized i just didn't like the overall feel of the movie. it was a sad, depressing movie. i wish it was a more uptempo, exciting, brighter, entertaining film. we need a feel-good film. hopefully the next one will be just that.
no more of this remorseful Superman stuff.
although, i guess i understand that this film probably had to be a remorseful Superman film. i guess. but then again, i don't see why we couldn't have a re-energized Superman come back to Earth with a new, restored focus on fighting the bad guys. a happy, confident Superman, please.

 

[mego joe]

In Exile, Superman left Earth without saying goodbye to ANYONE, not even his parents, this not only left Earth open to attack from the likes of Luthor and Darkseid, but it also left his loved one's in complete incertainty and worry.

Do I really need to show this picture of him saying goodbye to ma and pa and lana and matrix BEFORE he left in Exile to prove you wrong about it again?

In For Tomorrow, Superman endangers the WHOLE planet by activating the vanishing device, despite not knowing what it does or what it leads to, just because he felt lonely, the risk he took was so great, Wonder Woman felt the need to fight with Superman to get him to stop. Superman activated the device on nothing more than "faith" that it would harm humans, no solid proof what-so-ever. Not to mention in the same story he starts taking orders from a war-lord.

The difference is that his intention is to help mankind by creating the device and when it backfires he does EVERYTHING in his power to bring everyone back. In SR he chickens out of saying goodbye. DOesn't sound like his intention was to anything but saving his own feelings there.

In The Journey, Superman went missing for months on end, WITHOUT telling anyone were he was, including Lois, his WIFE at the time, which resulted in Lois nearly being shot by river pirates, had Superman not been listening at the time and saved Lois she may have been killed, along with Jimmy. Not to mention, had Lois not gone looking for him and knew the location of his new fortress (were he was staying and not saving anyone), and if a group of villains hadnt unleashed a newer, more powerful Blackrock on the planet, he may have been missing for longer, simply sitting in his Fortress rather than saving people.

But he was listening. And though that's one I haven't read- since they're married they have an understanding of sorts based on his multiple responsibilities as both husband and Superman. I'm sure it wasn't a complete surprise that he disappeared for a while. I'll have to check that one out so I can find out how you are wrong.

In Kingdom Come, Superman abandons mankind, because, in simple terms, he loses a popularity contest. I know there is more to it than that and that Superman loses faith in humanity, but is that honestly a good enough reason to abandom humanity completely for YEARS on end without a word to anyone (yes i know Lois was dead, but he still could have addressed others)? Not in my eyes.

By leaving out the 'more to it than that' you're trying to spin it into something cheap which it is not. And yes, the story gives a compelling reason for him having lost his faith in humanity. SR gives NO compelling reason why he would be so cowardly as to be unable to say goodbye to Lois.

I think thats more than enough examples for now, showing that even in the comics, Superman is flawed. Triple period .

Flawed, but not in the way he is flawed in SR. He's not cowardly in the comics, and he clearly puts Lois first in the comics, doesn't he.

I can't believe we're going around on this again. Quadruple period.