WB/DC: It's All Part Of The Plan

[GreenKToo]

If the next Superman film is a reboot, the only way I can see it doing 300 mill + at the B.O. is if it has a slam dunk of a cast like TDK had, and a really, REALLY good director to go along with it.
I know a great cast will cost, but just look at the payout you can get. You gotta spend it to make it.
And for the love of God, please no more 10 mill dollar scenes left on the cutting room floor.

 

[Max Newlander]

If the next Superman film is a reboot, the only way I can see it doing 300 mill + at the B.O. is if it has a slam dunk of a cast like TDK had, and a really, REALLY good director to go along with it.
I know a great cast will cost, but just look at the payout you can get. You gotta spend it to make it.
And for the love of God, please no more 10 mill dollar scenes left on the cutting room floor.

I think $300m for a reboot is a bit optimistic IMO, Begin's was a kick ass almost perfect reboot with an extremely strong cast and only managed $205m.

Batman is every bit as popular as Superman, and arguable more. The Superman reboot has to be the dogs b*****ks so that the follow up to that movie will have the public floaking to it. If the first Superman movie (Returns) was outstanding and created critic and public positive buzz then I'm quite sure it would have been up there with Spider-man money.

Unfortunetly it missed its chance with a poor movie nobody particularly liked (non-fanboys) So it now needs to work extremely hard to get the public (non-fanboys) behind it and interested to see anything Superman related. Hence IMO similairly to Begin's no matter how good a Superman reboot is it won't do amazing numbers. Thats what the sequel will be for.

 

[Dark Knight]

What DC and Warner Bro's need to do its very quickly confirm they have ditched Singer, and explain the furture of the Superman franchise and their thought's going forward. (of course this won't happen)

Singer's name only darkens Supermans reputation. Yes many people liked Returns, some I'm no doubt loved it, but MANY truely hated it.

Now lets compare that to Begins, pretty much everyone LOVED it. Hence TDK is going to be the quickest movie to $400m by about 20 days. Now that is so impressive that its actually hard to believe.

Singers Man of Steel won't even scratch that number never mind get there in record time. Why..?! Cos only some loved his first installment.

Singers Superman sequel will have the same impact as Story's FF sequel, when people really didn't care or particularly like the first, its VERY unlikely they will give the second one a chance or even bother about it. DC and Warners need to reboot in a few years, make sure it absolutely ROCKS and reap the reward from the sequel of that movie.

Another thing, lets be honest Singers sequel (which I'm about 100% will NEVER happen) or a reboot are YEARS away, 2011 or 2012 at the earliest IMO. So will the general public still be hungry for Comic Book movies by then..?! Maybe by that stage they might just be a bit fed up by them.

I personally think Superman has missed its chance within the Comic Book boom thanks to a dreadful movie in the middle of it. Less than $400m for a character as well known as Spider-man after a 20 year gap tells us the public agree with me on the whole. Money talks and Superman making less than half of Spider-man movies is a joke. People didn't like Returns and said so with their wallets.

Singer's Returns wasted any chance of his sequel or reboot (if either happen) ever having anything other than average BO returns.

Thats not necessarily true. My feeling is that the only way to go is up when it comes to a sequel. WB's and Singer should know by now what improvments need to be made for the sequel to be a better movie overall critcally but more importantly to WB's financially. Budget discipline is needed, keeping it around 150-170 million and upping the action/fight and flying sequences and scenes. Bringing in villain(s) that we haven't seen before onscreen like Braniac, Metallo or Eradicator. Create some great visual scenes and make the movie more fun and uplifting. Of course there needs to be some tragedy or downer scenes, but overall the film needs to be visually stimulating, fun and exciting. Putting a solid release date out there like 4th of July weekend and making sure there are no other tentpole style big films that come out within a week of MOS (Unlike the dumb thing they did with SR and Dead Mans Chest). With those elements in place and by maybe having a cameo like Det John Jones aka Martian Manhunter working for the Metropolis Police Department and have the ending lead to a tie in or tease the audience to a bigger Earth threat that is out there (Darkseid). The audience and fans will love it.

 

[Max Newlander]

Thats not necessarily true. My feeling is that the only way to go is up when it comes to a sequel. WB's and Singer should know by now what improvments need to be made for the sequel to be a better movie overall critcally but more importantly to WB's financially. Budget discipline is needed, keeping it around 150 million and upping the action/fight and flying sequences and scenes. Bringing in villain(s) that we haven't seen before onscreen like Braniac, Metallo or Eradicator. Create some great visual scenes and make the movie more fun and uplifting. Of course there needs to be some tragedy or downer scenes, but overall the film needs to be visually stimulating, fun and exciting. With those elements in place and by maybe having a cameo like Det John Jones aka Martian Manhunter working for the Metropolis Police Department and have the ending lead to a tie in or tease the audience to a bigger Earth threat that is out there (Darkseid). The audience and fans will love it.

Lets put Superman Returns into context, it made $390m with a budget of $200m+, now even the pile of poo Hancock is well into $500m WW.

If Superman Returns was an original movie and the character was brand new would they green light a sequel with that gross/budget ratio......I have my doubts.

The general public have NO idea what Darkseid is. So that name as a villain attached to a Superman film means nothing to them.

I just think Warner Bro's will be so cautious about throwing any massive numbers to a Superman sequel, never mind giving Singer anymore. With most big event movies having $150m+ Superman needs to have a big budget to stay with the pace and quality of productions. Having said this Watchmen is about $100m and looks the part, so you never know.

We will wait and see, I'm just not holding my breath waiting for a sequel or reboot cos I think they are years and years away.

I think we all on here have MUCH more faith in the Superman character than Warner's and the film going public in general, and thats only natural as fans. I have become a tad more subjective because of the sobering numbers of Returns made it clear the love of Superman is far from universal. (of course IMO the movie was awful which most certain didn't help), but even so it was still extremely disappointing numbers.

 

[GreenKToo]

To be honest, I expect we'll see a G.L., Flash, and possibily a W.W. film first before we see another Superman film.
I'm trying to keep the faith, but lack of any real news is killing what little I have left.

 

[SatEL]

To be honest, I expect we'll see a G.L., Flash, and possibily a W.W. film first before we see another Superman film.
I'm trying to keep the faith, but lack of any real news is killing what little I have left.

You can blame SR for that.

 

[Dark Knight]

Lets put Superman Returns into context, it made $390m with a budget of $200m+, now even the pile of poo Hancock is well into $500m WW.

If Superman Returns was an original movie and the character was brand new would they green light a sequel with that gross/budget ratio......I have my doubts.

The general public have NO idea what Darkseid is. So that name as a villain attached to a Superman film means nothing to them.

I just think Warner Bro's will be so cautious about throwing any massive numbers to a Superman sequel, never mind giving Singer anymore. With most big event movies having $150m+ Superman needs to have a big budget to stay with the pace and quality of productions. Having said this Watchmen is about $100m and looks the part, so you never know.

We will wait and see, I'm just not holding my breath waiting for a sequel or reboot cos I think they are years and years away.

I think we all on here have MUCH more faith in the Superman character than Warner's and the film going public in general, and thats only natural as fans. I have become a tad more subjective because of the sobering numbers of Returns made it clear the love of Superman is far from universal. (of course IMO the movie was awful which most certain didn't help), but even so it was still extremely disappointing numbers.

If the general movie audience showed up to watch a no name superhero like Hancock on the July 4th weekend then they will show up for a fun, intense, and kick arse Superman film. Plus did the general movie audience really know who the hell Hancock was? My point is they don't need to know who Darkseid is, it would be for the fans.

 

[SatEL]

If the general movie audience showed up to watch a no name superhero like Hancock on the July 4th weekend then they will show up for a fun, intense, and kick arse Superman film. Plus did the general movie audience really know who the hell Hancock was? My point is they don't need to know who Darkseid is, it would be for the fans.

LMAO Yes they knew who Hancock was, he was.....wait for it.........almost there...........................Will Smith.

 

[AragornKing1]

Yeah, I'm really tired of people saying that certain villains and characters can't be in a movie because the audience doesn't know who they are. What kind of excuse is that? How is the audience supposed to hear or know about any character if that character is not introduced to them in the movie. Look at Sandman in Spider-Man 3 or Iron Monger in Iron Man.

 

[SuperDaniel]

SR killed the franchise for at least 2 more years...

 

[Dark Knight]

LMAO Yes they knew who Hancock was, he was.....wait for it.........almost there...........................Will Smith.

LOL....I was going to say that also.....

 

[Double Down]

From IGN.com:

(At Comic Con, Kevin Smith said,) "I think Superman deserves another shot."

The guy did X2," Smith says of Singer. "I mean, any guy who can make a set piece, a fight scene set in a gift shop [in the first X-Men movie] interesting, and action-packed, deserves another shot."

Following Singer's previous quote about how his next Superman movie will be more akin to Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Smith humorously compared Returns to the pacing and tone of the first Trek movie, with the hope that Singer will deliver on his promise of giving us, and Kal-El, an epic superhero movie.

And who does Smith think Supes should finally fight on the big screen? "Let Supes fight Darkseid or something."

Some people are saying that Kevin Smith changed his mind because he "has been bought off."
So the question is: Why would Warner Bros. "let" Kevin Smith trash the movie for two years, then pressure him to support Singer when they never bothered to do so before? They wouldn't, but let's say they did pressure Smith to support Bryan Singer. Why would they? The only answer I can come up with is that they were bringing Singer back and wanted someone with "geek cred" to support him. If they weren't bringing Singer back, why would they bother with Smith when they never did before. If they were replacing Singer, then it would not benefit Warner Bros. for Smith to vouch for Singer.

 

[Showtime]

Whaaaaaaaaaatttt?

 

[Dark_Lord]

Whaaaaaaaaaatttt?

Same thing I said when I read the post.

 

[Double Down]

I guess it makes more sense with the original article attached. Sorry about that.

:P

 

[X Knight]

hey showtime. did you reshuffle the MOS board topics over the weekend?

cuz....all of a sudden there are quite a few "new" thread titles near the top of the list.... lol.

 

[Nightwing1977]

Trying to stir up some new and fresh debate, this place is stale like yesterday's bread.

Have you ever try stale bread from that comment? Still taste good?

 

[Superman-Prime]

Here's the article that Tull talks about the sequel of SR.

http://weblogs.variety.com/thompsononhollywood/2008/07/snyder-reveals.html?query=legendary

He's also vested in making the next Superman installment, which is still years away, come to life. While Bryan Singer has been working on Valkyrie, Tull and the folks at Warners have been listening to various screenwriters pitch their solutions to how to make the next Superman work. "It's an iconic character," says Tull. "After everything that went into the first film, it's important to make sure that nothing is rushed and we come out with a fantastic second film." One thing they all agree on: Superman needs a powerful antagonist, a "worthy opponent," he says.

 

[Crook]

Perhaps they should have agreed with that sentiment from the very beginning, so we aren't in this predicament.

 

[The Batman]

WB should greenlight MOS, the sequel to SR...and the only people who'll give a damn that its a sequel are the fanboys who want to whine about SR for the rest of their damn lives...no, im not really much of a fan of SR, but making a sequel to it wouldnt be the end of the universe...and would be a much better idea than the idea of wasting years of time just to wait for a reboot so you can tell the 1,000th story of superman came to be

Thankfully, Singer and the writers have more imagination than fanboys who simply want to rehash the extremely overrated STAS and Bryne Superman for the bigscreen, so I have no doubt they can find a way to fix the mistakes of SR and downplay elements like the superkid.

MOS needs to take the ball from TDK and raise superhero movies to the next level. Singer's shown what he can do with X2, and he can do it with superman.
Nolan made a good film without throwing in useless comic book references, and so can singer. Singer and Wb will no doubt keep in mind that they're trying to create a blockbuster film, not a romance heavy one like SR...

 

[Rob-el]

After two years I think the writing is very clearly on the wall what needs to be done with Superman - reboot. I supported Singer through production and enjoyed many parts of Returns but in the end I must admit it was a let down and I do not feel that Singer has put inplace what is needed for a sequel that will meet what is needed - artistically, finacially or by any other measure. I think Routh was very good but unfortunately for him may have been cast in the wrong film that unfortunately will see him as a one shot Superman. Batman Begins put in place a very strong foundation for The Dark Knight - Superman Returns does not provide the same launching pad and I think WB knows this.

This is not slamming Singer - I truely believe he tried and perhaps was blinded by his admiration too much of Donner's film. I have come to accept that it is time we take a break from the next Superman project for 3-4 years. Allow Smallville to wind up its run and then let's have a two year public break from Superman. In 2011 (not that far away really!) WB should start the process up again with a complete reboot that can eventually tie into a JLA unibverse but that first sets up the next phase of the Superman mythos on the big screen - and yes it will have to cost a very pretty penny to produce! Personally I would lve to see it done in the same style as Godfther II, with alternating stories between Superman and Jor-el. Superman facing off against his opponent in away that parralels Jor-Els battles with the Council. And at the side of both men the woman they love - Lois and Lara. I sometimes wonder if the same actors could play both roles Superman//Jor-El, Lara and Lois. Anyways I digress - reboot!

 

[SuperDaniel]

Also, i heard the Green Lantern movie is very close to come true.

A brazilian site OMELETE just spoke with the producer and things are going forward fast. I believe that WB will put a hold on Superman and will move on to other DC heroes.

 

[stargazer]

Singers Superman sequel will have the same impact as Story's FF sequel, when people really didn't care or particularly like the first, its VERY unlikely they will give the second one a chance or even bother about it. DC and Warners need to reboot in a few years, make sure it absolutely ROCKS and reap the reward from the sequel of that movie.

.

I totally disagree with this.

FF sequel is in no way comparable with SR.

FF2 made less $ than it's predecessor.
It has a rotten status at rottentomatoes, with a 35% rating by the critics, and a 53 % rating by the community. It is rotten.

SR, on the other hand, is certified fresh with a 77% rating by the critics (3 out of 4 people liked it), and a 74% rating by the community. The movie made nearly $400 mil ww, and sold well on dvd. The problem is that the production budget was to large. Lower it for the sequel, plus add more action and a powerful supervillain plus a decent story, and I'm sure MOS will do better than SR. That's what people really want to see, and the sequel CAN accomplish that. SR is a good movie and a lot of people liked it, it's just that some people like to bash it constantly.

 

[SatEL]

I totally disagree with this.

FF sequel is in no way comparable with SR.

FF2 made less $ than it's predecessor.
It has a rotten status at rottentomatoes, with a 35% rating by the critics, and a 53 % rating by the community. It is rotten.

SR, on the other hand, is certified fresh with a 77% rating by the critics (3 out of 4 people liked it), and a 74% rating by the community. The movie made nearly $400 mil ww, and sold well on dvd. The problem is that the production budget was to large. Lower it for the sequel, plus add more action and a powerful supervillain plus a decent story, and I'm sure MOS will do better than SR. That's what people really want to see, and the sequel CAN accomplish that. SR is a good movie and a lot of people liked it, it's just that some people like to bash it constantly.

Is that why is crawled to 200 million?, I have heard some people say that they liked returns during their first viewing of it. Only to hate it terribly the second time they saw it, I think people were just caught of guard by the Superman aspect but once they had time to digest what they had seen they agreed it was a pile of ****.

 

[KobiKai]

I totally disagree with this.

FF sequel is in no way comparable with SR.

FF2 made less $ than it's predecessor.
It has a rotten status at rottentomatoes, with a 35% rating by the critics, and a 53 % rating by the community. It is rotten.

SR, on the other hand, is certified fresh with a 77% rating by the critics (3 out of 4 people liked it), and a 74% rating by the community. The movie made nearly $400 mil ww, and sold well on dvd. The problem is that the production budget was to large. Lower it for the sequel, plus add more action and a powerful supervillain plus a decent story, and I'm sure MOS will do better than SR. That's what people really want to see, and the sequel CAN accomplish that. SR is a good movie and a lot of people liked it, it's just that some people like to bash it constantly.

Where exactly are the figures to say it sold well on DVD, here (England) it was in the bargain bin faster than the Ashley Cole book. Play.com even sold it as part of a one day sale for £1.50 and it never made it in to the top 100 sale of the day. IMO Superman has almost a purely American fanbase, the rest of the world don't give a ****. He's no Fernando Torres