WB/DC: It's All Part Of The Plan

[Lestat74]

You know, reading some thread on Singer some minutes ago, I have the fear that given his sexual inclination, everything Berlanti will do, from casting to costume to story plot choices, will be tagged by forum trolls as "gay".
Said by people who enjoy reading stories about man in leotards.

Oh believe me, I'm gay and I notice this kind of stuff all the time. What's funny is that Singer's X-Men films are FAR more a gay allegory than SR, but since the majority of fans dug those films they chose not to focus on that. Now SR, love it or hate it, is never played up as any kind of gay allegory at all, and yet that one is labeled "gay" simply because why now?? Cuz Brandon Routh is hot and looks good in spandex? ( Both things that Superman should always be anyway) If anything, SR is Singer dealing with his issues on being adopted.

And you are right I'm afraid. Berlanti's sexuality will factor into anything negative when it comes to GL. I'm a lifelong Comic Book/Movie Geek, and yet I find so much homophobia amongst my fellow geeks, almost more than anywhere else online. I don't know if it's because so many geeks got picked on for not being athletic enough or what, or because they got picked on for reading stories about hot muscle studs in spandex, but it seems they like to make themselves feel more like "manly men" by labelling everything "gay" they don't like. Even when it doesn't apply.

I will say these here forums are not that bad in regards to this, but places like Aint It Cool? It's disgusting how the homophobia just drips off those talkbacks. ANY talkbacks.

 

[GreenKToo]

People try and act all big and bad hiding behind a computer screen. Truth is though, they say things there they'd never say in real life to someone's face. It gives them a sense of power I suppose.

As for me, I act no different here than in real life. Live and let live I always say.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Oh believe me, I'm gay and I notice this kind of stuff all the time. What's funny is that Singer's X-Men films are FAR more a gay allegory than SR, but since the majority of fans dug those films they chose not to focus on that. Now SR, love it or hate it, is never played up as any kind of gay allegory at all, and yet that one is labeled "gay" simply because why now?? Cuz Brandon Routh is hot and looks good in spandex? ( Both things that Superman should always be anyway) If anything, SR is Singer dealing with his issues on being adopted.

And you are right I'm afraid. Berlanti's sexuality will factor into anything negative when it comes to GL. I'm a lifelong Comic Book/Movie Geek, and yet I find so much homophobia amongst my fellow geeks, almost more than anywhere else online. I don't know if it's because so many geeks got picked on for not being athletic enough or what, or because they got picked on for reading stories about hot muscle studs in spandex, but it seems they like to make themselves feel more like "manly men" by labelling everything "gay" they don't like. Even when it doesn't apply.

I will say these here forums are not that bad in regards to this, but places like Aint It Cool? It's disgusting how the homophobia just drips off those talkbacks. ANY talkbacks.

Homophobia AND misogyny. Have you read those ScriptGirl Talkbacks?

 

[C. Lee]

Homophobia AND misogyny.

It's a never ending battle here at the Hype on both counts.....

 

[mojo-x]

Oh believe me, I'm gay and I notice this kind of stuff all the time. What's funny is that Singer's X-Men films are FAR more a gay allegory than SR, but since the majority of fans dug those films they chose not to focus on that. Now SR, love it or hate it, is never played up as any kind of gay allegory at all, and yet that one is labeled "gay" simply because why now?? Cuz Brandon Routh is hot and looks good in spandex? ( Both things that Superman should always be anyway) If anything, SR is Singer dealing with his issues on being adopted.

And you are right I'm afraid. Berlanti's sexuality will factor into anything negative when it comes to GL. I'm a lifelong Comic Book/Movie Geek, and yet I find so much homophobia amongst my fellow geeks, almost more than anywhere else online. I don't know if it's because so many geeks got picked on for not being athletic enough or what, or because they got picked on for reading stories about hot muscle studs in spandex, but it seems they like to make themselves feel more like "manly men" by labelling everything "gay" they don't like. Even when it doesn't apply.

I will say these here forums are not that bad in regards to this, but places like Aint It Cool? It's disgusting how the homophobia just drips off those talkbacks. ANY talkbacks.

First I am not homophobic. The only reason I would mention Singers sexual orientation is because I believe it clouded his judgment to the point that he put themes into his Superman movie that were never really meant to be there in the first place.
Secondly the reason it is not as a big of a deal in the X-men movies is because the X-men always dealt with themes of prejudice, not just gay but more of an “allegory” for all prejudice. I heard Singer based the scene where Ice-man tells his parents of him being a mutant off his own “coming out” experience with his parents. I also heard Singer was adopted, can any one confirm are denial this?

 

[Dark Knight]

Greg Berlanti is a writer/producer for LOTS of television shows, including Eli Stone, Dirty Sexy Money, Brothers and Sisters and other shows over the years, shows that are often praised for their characterization. And I actually think the Broken Hearts Club is a decent flick.

And remember, James Cameron had only made Piranha II before Terminator, Bryan Singer had only made The Usual Suspects and Apt Pupil ( which are mostly character pieces with no FX ) and even Chris Nolan's previous films before Batman were hardly action/FX driven. Special effects stuff can be learned; talent for writing with depth is inate, or at least a lot harder to learn.

Plus, Berlanti is a big GL fanboy..that should count for something.

Yeah but after reading his resume....I just get the sense the guy is more of a producer/writer than a director.

 

[Showtime]

First I am not homophobic. The only reason I would mention Singers sexual orientation is because I believe it clouded his judgment to the point that he put themes into his Superman movie that were never really meant to be there in the first place.
Secondly the reason it is not as a big of a deal in the X-men movies is because the X-men always dealt with themes of prejudice, not just gay but more of an “allegory” for all prejudice. I heard Singer based the scene where Ice-man tells his parents of him being a mutant off his own “coming out” experience with his parents. I also heard Singer was adopted, can any one confirm are denial this?

XXL FONT?

 

[Lestat74]

Homophobia AND misogyny. Have you read those ScriptGirl Talkbacks?

Oh yes....the misogyny is also rampant, I know. And I have not read those talkbacks because I'm scared to just for that reason....I know I'll get sick to my stomach.

First I am not homophobic. The only reason I would mention Singers sexual orientation is because I believe it clouded his judgment to the point that he put themes into his Superman movie that were never really meant to be there in the first place.
Secondly the reason it is not as a big of a deal in the X-men movies is because the X-men always dealt with themes of prejudice, not just gay but more of an “allegory” for all prejudice. I heard Singer based the scene where Ice-man tells his parents of him being a mutant off his own “coming out” experience with his parents. I also heard Singer was adopted, can any one confirm are denial this?

Yeah, but I just don't see where any of these gay themes are in SR. If you didn't already know Singer was gay would you even see any? The scene in X2 is obvious, even if you didn't know the director was gay it would "read" as an obvious gay allegory. I don't see anything like that at all in SR. And yes, Singer is adopted. Now all the stuff about Jason and whatnot could be seen as Singer working through some adoption issues, but I'm dying to know what the obvious gay allegory is in SR. Seriously.

 

[Crook]

It's not as overt as X2, but basically the theme of identity, loneliness, and isolation. It's not something exclusive to homosexuality, but it's certainly shared with the predicaments Superman endures both in and out of costume.

 

[SatEL]

Oh yes....the misogyny is also rampant, I know. And I have not read those talkbacks because I'm scared to just for that reason....I know I'll get sick to my stomach.




Yeah, but I just don't see where any of these gay themes are in SR. If you didn't already know Singer was gay would you even see any? The scene in X2 is obvious, even if you didn't know the director was gay it would "read" as an obvious gay allegory. I don't see anything like that at all in SR. And yes, Singer is adopted. Now all the stuff about Jason and whatnot could be seen as Singer working through some adoption issues, but I'm dying to know what the obvious gay allegory is in SR. Seriously.

How professional projecting self issues unto your work, If Singer has issues whether its been a homosexual or been adopted then perhaps therapy is the best option.

 

[Lestat74]

How professional projecting self issues unto your work, If Singer has issues whether its been a homosexual or been adopted then perhaps therapy is the best option.

Ummm.....name me a director of any note who doesn't do this? I mean, Close Encounters and ET are all about Steven Spielberg's parent's divorce, American Graffiti and the original Star Wars are about George Lucas' desire to get out his small town and do something significant with his life...the list goes on and on. Any director that doesn't bring his personal issues into his work at some point is pretty much going to always be regarded as a hack.

 

[SatEL]

Ummm.....name me a director of any note who doesn't do this? I mean, Close Encounters and ET are all about Steven Spielberg's parent's divorce, American Graffiti and the original Star Wars are about George Lucas' desire to get out his small town and do something significant with his life...the list goes on and on. Any director that doesn't bring his personal issues into his work at some point is pretty much going to always be regarded as a hack.

James Cameron mother must have been attacked by a machine from the future before he was born because he was going to direct Titanic, or perhaps his lover was on a cruise ship and it sank? Oh or perhaps his a spy and his wife isnt aware. Besides if your going to translate personal issues to film at least make sure its in relation to the character.

 

[wellsy]

Indeed Lestat, you are quite right. Some of the best tales ever told are born out of the personal experiance of the director/story-teller. I remember watching Deep Space Nine once, and Jake says to Captain Sisko that he wants to stay on DS9 because he wants to experiance more things, and "that you can only write well about what you have experianced" (or words to that effect).

And just because he has issues with it doesn't mean it hurts him. It's something that Singer knows, and feels that the character can express. Superman IS adopted. He IS alien. How can Singer not find parallels between that and his own story?

 

[SatEL]

Indeed Lestat, you are quite right. Some of the best tales ever told are born out of the personal experiance of the director/story-teller. I remember watching Deep Space Nine once, and Jake says to Captain Sisko that he wants to stay on DS9 because he wants to experiance more things, and "that you can only write well about what you have experianced" (or words to that effect).

And just because he has issues with it doesn't mean it hurts him. It's something that Singer knows, and feels that the character can express. Superman IS adopted. He IS alien. How can Singer not find parallels between that and his own story?

Fair enough but when he takes it to far and makes Superman a loner and isolated individual I would say that's a bit to much. Singer might feel like an isolated individual who is perhaps a loner but Superman is not that.

 

[wellsy]

I don't think you quite get it - I'm a loner. In fact, I'm quite content to be in my own company. I'm quiet, restrained, and thoughtful (or so I think... which obvious means its false ). Superman is those things. He is indeed isolated and alone, in a way no human can ever truly be. If you were the last human alive, and lived on another world, then wouldn't you feel alone and somewhat isolated?

Superman feels that isolation, but in the end, he overcomes it. In the same way that Batman is about overcoming the demons of one's past and the darkness therein, Superman is about overcoming the loneliness of being somwhere that is not his home. He is an immigrant, someone who has to wrestle with being away from all that is truly his, even if he doesn't remember it himself. Kal-El is alien, and Superman is about overcoming that alienation that naturally occurs (whether we want to admit it or not).

I don't need to read comic books to understand the essence of a character (I just need to spend two years here... oh, the irony ).

 

[El Payaso]

First I am not homophobic. The only reason I would mention Singers sexual orientation is because I believe it clouded his judgment to the point that he put themes into his Superman movie that were never really meant to be there in the first place.

The only one having his judgement clouded by Singer's sexual orientation seems to be you man.

 

[SatEL]

I don't think you quite get it - I'm a loner. In fact, I'm quite content to be in my own company. I'm quiet, restrained, and thoughtful (or so I think... which obvious means its false ). Superman is those things. He is indeed isolated and alone, in a way no human can ever truly be. If you were the last human alive, and lived on another world, then wouldn't you feel alone and somewhat isolated?

Superman feels that isolation, but in the end, he overcomes it. In the same way that Batman is about overcoming the demons of one's past and the darkness therein, Superman is about overcoming the loneliness of being somwhere that is not his home. He is an immigrant, someone who has to wrestle with being away from all that is truly his, even if he doesn't remember it himself. Kal-El is alien, and Superman is about overcoming that alienation that naturally occurs (whether we want to admit it or not).

I don't need to read comic books to understand the essence of a character (I just need to spend two years here... oh, the irony ).

Indeed the irony, you state it yourself yet attempt to protect Singers warperd version. He overcomes it that been the key phrase, Superman is indeed an alien something he never tries to hide. Its part of his history and he embraces it but yet he feels like just one of us, his powers or abilities dont define or make him who he is in the end his Jonathan and Marthas boy from the farm. Clark Kent/ KalEl is not an isolated self pitying individual neither is he a loner, In Singers version his only contact with humanity was through Lois Lane and that simply is not the case. Batman is isolated and lonely not Superman, it seems spending two years on here just doesnt cut it.t:

 

[KaptainKrypton]

Indeed the irony, you state it yourself yet attempt to protect Singers warperd version. He overcomes it that been the key phrase, Superman is indeed an alien something he never tries to hide. Its part of his history and he embraces it but yet he feels like just one of us, his powers or abilities dont define or make him who he is in the end his Jonathan and Marthas boy from the farm. Clark Kent/ KalEl is not an isolated self pitying individual neither is he a loner, In Singers version his only contact with humanity was through Lois Lane and that simply is not the case. Batman is isolated and lonely not Superman, it seems spending two years on here just doesnt cut it.t:

To be fair...a five-year trip out to see your home planet in chunks may just change the perspective a tad. A tad, nahmeen?

 

[KaptainKrypton]

The only one having his judgement clouded by Singer's sexual orientation seems to be you man.

And not just in this thread.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Oh believe me, I'm gay and I notice this kind of stuff all the time. What's funny is that Singer's X-Men films are FAR more a gay allegory than SR, but since the majority of fans dug those films they chose not to focus on that. Now SR, love it or hate it, is never played up as any kind of gay allegory at all, and yet that one is labeled "gay" simply because why now?? Cuz Brandon Routh is hot and looks good in spandex? ( Both things that Superman should always be anyway) If anything, SR is Singer dealing with his issues on being adopted.

And you are right I'm afraid. Berlanti's sexuality will factor into anything negative when it comes to GL. I'm a lifelong Comic Book/Movie Geek, and yet I find so much homophobia amongst my fellow geeks, almost more than anywhere else online. I don't know if it's because so many geeks got picked on for not being athletic enough or what, or because they got picked on for reading stories about hot muscle studs in spandex, but it seems they like to make themselves feel more like "manly men" by labelling everything "gay" they don't like. Even when it doesn't apply.

I will say these here forums are not that bad in regards to this, but places like Aint It Cool? It's disgusting how the homophobia just drips off those talkbacks. ANY talkbacks.

IMO people who call Singer's sexuality simply because they didnt like one of his movies are childish, immature, and have NOTHING to offer in discussions, I personally am not gay, but think its ridiculous when Singer's sexuality is called into question in relation to the quality of one of his movies.

Besides, SR has no gay allegories in it, its more about lonliness and alienation, something not exclusive to gay's in the slightest.

James Cameron mother must have been attacked by a machine from the future before he was born because he was going to direct Titanic, or perhaps his lover was on a cruise ship and it sank? Oh or perhaps his a spy and his wife isnt aware. Besides if your going to translate personal issues to film at least make sure its in relation to the character.

Just to correct you here for a moment, The Terminator was actually based on James Cameron's nightmare's when he was seriously ill while making Piranha 2, while he has been obsessed with the story of The Titantic since he was small child, so both of those movies DO come out of his life experiences.

Indeed Lestat, you are quite right. Some of the best tales ever told are born out of the personal experiance of the director/story-teller. I remember watching Deep Space Nine once, and Jake says to Captain Sisko that he wants to stay on DS9 because he wants to experiance more things, and "that you can only write well about what you have experianced" (or words to that effect).

And just because he has issues with it doesn't mean it hurts him. It's something that Singer knows, and feels that the character can express. Superman IS adopted. He IS alien. How can Singer not find parallels between that and his own story?

EXACTLY.

Indeed the irony, you state it yourself yet attempt to protect Singers warperd version. He overcomes it that been the key phrase, Superman is indeed an alien something he never tries to hide. Its part of his history and he embraces it but yet he feels like just one of us, his powers or abilities dont define or make him who he is in the end his Jonathan and Marthas boy from the farm. Clark Kent/ KalEl is not an isolated self pitying individual neither is he a loner, In Singers version his only contact with humanity was through Lois Lane and that simply is not the case. Batman is isolated and lonely not Superman, it seems spending two years on here just doesnt cut it.t:

So Superman has never felt isolated and alone in his entire history? Thats bull Sat-El, there have been plenty of times when Superman has felt lonliness and isolation in his long history, hell read For Tomorrow, The Journey and Godfall for the most recent examples.

To be fair...a five-year trip out to see your home planet in chunks may just change the perspective a tad. A tad, nahmeen?

EXACTLY, the amount of times people forget this in relation to the story and behaviour of the characters in SR astounds me, perhaps the RTK sequence being added back in would have prevented this?

 

[Hunter Rider]

I have my problems with SR but to me they are directorial choices that he made as a film maker, none of the choices reflect his sexuality, i think it's a scapegoat excuse.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Well said HR, thankfully you and plenty of others can discuss your problems with the movie in a mature and adult manner.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

How professional projecting self issues unto your work, If Singer has issues whether its been a homosexual or been adopted then perhaps therapy is the best option.

....Someone hasn't heard of the auteur theory of film.

 

[Double Down]

People will see things where they want to. I didn't see anything "gay" in Superman Returns. But imagine if Lex Luthor gave Superman the choice of saving Richard or Lois and he chose Richard. What would people say if he didn't save the woman he loves, but instead saved her boyfriend? People would say that was "gay."
Somehow that never comes up with The Dark Knight, though, in a very similar scenario.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^You're probably right.