What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS*

[Boy Scout]

I'll just say that if you didn't think the film was the best movie in the world, or even the best Superman movie, then we probably have the same complaints.

 

[SuperWig]

My complaint would be we didn't get to see the explanation of flight. Ok so he absorbs the sun, we know this, but how does he fly. I also wanted to see Supes exploring his powers, especially flight before he puts on the suit. I know we saw him jumping around a little and falling through the mountain. It just felt too rushed with the powers.

 

[conan69]

but how does he fly

He defies our gravity. Notice how the world engine was altering gravity.

 

[SuperWig]

He defies our gravity. Notice how the world engine was altering gravity.

the science behind it though, just something.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

When those Doc Ock arms were reaching for Superman, it wasn't that clear as to what was going on.

 

[StarvingArtist]

When those Doc Ock arms were reaching for Superman, it wasn't that clear as to what was going on.

Totally agree, that entire sequence could have just been cut from the movie

 

[Marvin]

So I was trying to put into words how I feel about this film, when another poster asked me what Superman stands for to me.

...

I guess that's why it's devestating to me that an entire generation of kids just doesnt have that.

And they could have...[/I]

Not that I completely disagree with you, but I'm sure you are aware that there is a reason alot alot of people migrated over to the Marvel U over the past century.

Sometimes things need to change. But not to the point where the character isn't recognizable. But to the point where one needs to ask themselves if the things they ware are really really all that important. Is this still superman?

Well let's take a look at what it takes for Wolverine to cut off dead pools head and how he reacts afterwards, and what it takes for Superman to end his fathers killers life(who's in the process of killing more) and how he reacts after wards.

Just some perspective.

 

[Marvin]

That's pretty much it. People want video game sequences now from the looks of it. Fine. But that's not my Superman. Taking modern interpretations and a revamped interpretation into context I loved the film until he fought Faora and Nam-Ek. From there on it was disaster porn.

Interesting term. For me that sort of thing would require that emerich style of people in planes watching tidal wave's destroy cities while volcano's go off and highways fall apart. This was different imo, and not deserving of a throwaway term.

Then again there was that gravity beam.

If Superman's fighting the bad guys he needs to be shown still putting everything on the line to save the people of his adopted homeworld. Because when he does, it will cost him the fight. It will, without a shadow of a doubt, truly ground him. Because he can't be everywhere.

It's a fair opinion but, it's just that. Superman isn't just that to everyone. Jesus in fact, is.

No superhero film(beyond some of the really old ones) have had a character have to deal with level of threat to the immediate populace(excluding Green Lantern). Spiderman can catch people falling from a train but how many buildings full of people can he catch while being punched in the face?

But if he's just shown to ignore his enemy or ignore people in danger, then he's not Superman. He's just another guy in a cape no matter what's gone on before since in that moment, the film fails to convince you that he is Superman. It's where this film failed.

Here's what I see in that final fight.

After a clearly unstable Zod proclaims his new passion is a warpath and the whole planet is on his hit list. Superman engages with him, looking to put the man down as quick as possible. Probably looking for that one hit KO, looking for a finish like that would probably cause some sort of property damage(but let's postulate the alternatives an experienced superman would have some other time, like in a sequel). Next thing I know Superman somehow get's the fight into space, next thing I know Zod doens't let it stay in space. However the point is worth bringing up in light of all the complaints that superman didn't want the fight to leave the city. So ok we're coming back down so maybe I can hurt him and end this..
Maybe I should lay him down gently though...

Lastly, this idea that superman clearly was more concerned with Zod over the single life of a civilian. I seem to recall the fight ending on this very point! Superman did what he did to save that family.

mind you, unlike say batman who had been training his whole life...we have a hero here that's been in costume and fighting for maybe less than two days??????????

I just think they put the character in many tough positions and honestly the character in the books haven't had to make as tough decisions(well except for those few times when they did have to and pretty much made the same ones).

 

[Frodo]

I don't really get all of the complaints about the destruction in the action scenes. First of all we have superpowered beings fighting each other so of course thing are going to be destroyed. As far as Superman not caring, he was in a fight for his life it is not like he was using civilians as shields or something. The whole reason for fighting Zod was to protect people from him. Of course part of the issue is that a lot people want to see cool destruction just for the look of it. So I am sure sometimes the plot takes a back seat to trying to deliver what the audience wants. The way some people react around here it is like they really killed people in these scenes, it is a movie. I also think part of the problem is Superman is so ingrained into pop culture beyond comics, cartoons and movies and is considered the grand daddy of all of the other superheros that some just need to tear him down. I do think the movie could have been edited down less. The rumored original Snyder cut of +/- 3 hours would be even better I think, but they don't like to make movies to long because of the short attention spans of todays youth. I also would love a linear story instead of flashbacks but again no one wants to wait for the action. Everyone complained about the King Kong remake for it's long running time and time to we got to see Kong. For me my trilogy would be the first movie Krypton with it ending with the rocket leaving. Second movie Kents finding Kal and growing up in smallville and traveling the world ending with getting the suit and the last movie Superman year one. Pipe dream I know.

At this point, it wouldn't have mattered what MOS film Nolan inc put out because fanboys are hard to please . You've pretty much had this same polarizing reaction to IM3 and STID , in which the fanboys think its the worst thing in the world and GA think they're great, entertaining films. The audience I saw the film with loved it , and ultimately their POV is what WB is using as a measure to judge whether there will be a sequel, not what a small segment of fans have issues it.

 

[Marvin]

I would be hard pressed to defend superman literally flying threw people to get to zod though. lol.

I am curious what people think Zod would get upto if superman took his attention off of him for say 1 minute, to go attend to other things.

 

[BigA]

the science behind it though, just something.

Jor-El stated that gravity on Krypton is stronger than on Earth, so Clark can defy the Earth's gravity based on his Kryptonian physiology. Vice-versa, humans probably wouldn't even be able to walk on Krypton without struggle.

 

[BlueLantern]

Interesting term. For me that sort of thing would require that Emmerich style of people in planes watching tidal wave's destroy cities while volcano's go off and highways fall apart. This was different imo, and not deserving of a throwaway term.

Then again there was that gravity beam.

It's a fair opinion but, it's just that. Superman isn't just that to everyone. Jesus in fact, is.

No superhero film(beyond some of the really old ones) have had a character have to deal with level of threat to the immediate populace(excluding Green Lantern). Spiderman can catch people falling from a train but how many buildings full of people can he catch while being punched in the face?


Here's what I see in that final fight.

After a clearly unstable Zod proclaims his new passion is a warpath and the whole planet is on his hit list. Superman engages with him, looking to put the man down as quick as possible. Probably looking for that one hit KO, looking for a finish like that would probably cause some sort of property damage(but let's postulate the alternatives an experienced superman would have some other time, like in a sequel). Next thing I know Superman somehow get's the fight into space, next thing I know Zod doens't let it stay in space. However the point is worth bringing up in light of all the complaints that superman didn't want the fight to leave the city. So ok we're coming back down so maybe I can hurt him and end this..
Maybe I should lay him down gently though...

Lastly, this idea that superman clearly was more concerned with Zod over the single life of a civilian. I seem to recall the fight ending on this very point! Superman did what he did to save that family.

mind you, unlike say batman who had been training his whole life...we have a hero here that's been in costume and fighting for maybe less than two days??????????

I just think they put the character in many tough positions and honestly the character in the books haven't had to make as tough decisions(well except for those few times when they did have to and pretty much made the same ones).

You make some very valid points, but the niggling problem is that in the flashbacks he's bemoaned wanting to save people and wanting to do something useful but has been held back.

Now that he's got the chance to do those very things, he doesn't stand up to his convictions very well. The issue of him not being able to stop buildings from falling whilst being punched in the face is exactly what Superman deals with regularly in the comics.

Even at an early stage in his career in Birthright and Secret Origin he's faced off with opponents going on a rampage but tries his very hardest to stop civilians from being harmed.

It's like what Mark Waid said. Superman in this film is shown saving people by defeating the World Engine/Black Zero/Zod/Faora/Nam-El but he does very little of protecting them.

They're both intrinsic qualities to Superman as a hero. Ignoring the latter means he's good at grand gestures but terrible at the little stuff. That's not Superman. Like I said, it's a guy in a cape. I hope they look into it.

 

[Wams]

I agree on the suit and I find it surprising very few others didn't have an issue with that part. The suit is important!

The suit was made the moment the house of El key was put into the ship.
Whatever Kryptonian who adds their personal key to said tech...
It becomes acclimated to them.
So the Jor-El construct of consciousness made the Superman suit the
moment that his son added the key to the ship.

Does that make sense?
It did to me the moment I saw it.

 

[Marvin]

Jor-El stated that gravity on Krypton is stronger than on Earth, so Clark can defy the Earth's gravity based on his Kryptonian physiology. Vice-versa, humans probably wouldn't even be able to walk on Krypton without struggle.

Less gravity means we can jump higher on the moon, it doesn't mean we can defy gravity.
Just saying.

 

[redhawk23]

Has anyone mentioned how god-awful the product placement film was? It was really obtrusive at times. I don't mind when things like cell phone brands are visible, but staging dramatic moments in front of Sears signs and lingering after Supes takes off, or repeatedly cutting to an IHOP just kind of took me out of the film.

 

[redhawk23]

Less gravity means we can jump higher on the moon, it doesn't mean we can defy gravity.
Just saying.

We also aren't aliens whose cells are absorbing the radiation of a foreign sun in a science fantasy superhero film.

Just saying.

 

[StarvingArtist]

This: http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/06/man-of-steel-movie-review/

 

[Marvin]

You make some very valid points, but the niggling problem is that in the flashbacks he's bemoaned wanting to save people and wanting to do something useful but has been held back.

Now that he's got the chance to do those very things, he doesn't stand up to his convictions very well. The issue of him not being able to stop buildings from falling whilst being punched in the face is exactly what Superman deals with regularly in the comics.

The death toll when he fought Doomsday(the mindless kryptonian) was pretty grand. I think that's the point.

The flash backs are indeed about him wanting to save lives when he doesn't have to and is being told not to. I don't see how that's changed by the end of the film. He could have told everyone to piss of and peace out.

The question is weather he was saving those lives as a kid whilst fighting zod.

Even at an early stage in his career in Birthright and Secret Origin he's faced off with opponents going on a rampage but tries his very hardest to stop civilians from being harmed.

It's like what Mark Waid said. Superman in this film is shown saving people by defeating the World Engine/Black Zero/Zod/Faora/Nam-El but he does very little of protecting them.

When superman fights bank robbers, with big cannons he keeps the damage to a minimum. What exactly was he fighting in Birthright. I memory is faint but [BLACKOUT]I recall it being humans with weapons.[/BLACKOUT]. Still that's mark waids take, there are various others.

They're both intrinsic qualities to Superman as a hero. Ignoring the latter means he's good at grand gestures but terrible at the little stuff. That's not Superman. Like I said, it's a guy in a cape. I hope they look into it.

I too look forward to where they take him, perhaps he can grow into something similar in the comics.

 

[redhawk23]

They're both intrinsic qualities to Superman as a hero. Ignoring the latter means he's good at grand gestures but terrible at the little stuff. That's not Superman. Like I said, it's a guy in a cape. I hope they look into it.

He was protecting humanity on a global scale. Something that Superhero films have done quite well as of late have been showing that even in the context of a Superhero filled world, there is still a place for our already existing first responders and defense forces.

 

[Marvin]

We also aren't aliens whose cells are absorbing the radiation of a foreign sun in a science fantasy superhero film.

Just saying.

My point wasn't the he doesn't make sense, my point(and I think it's pretty evident), is that his ability to defy gravity doesn't come from some gravity differential.
Though I'm not sure that's why Big A was getting at..

 

[Glassjaw]

I'm still having a tough time with the Zod resolution. I get that in that exact situation he had little choice, but why write yourself into that corner in the first place. I hope when I see it a second time its not as uncomfortable as the first time. It's just so, so weird they wrote an ending where Superman saves the day by violently killing someone then breaking down into tears. It's so depressing lol. Hopefully it'll play differently to me on a second viewing.

 

[BlueLantern]

Marv, he was fighting humans decked out in advanced technology whilst a kryptonite shard released radiation into Metropolis thus weakening him.

They were still tearing a fair bit of Metropolis apart and Superman did a pretty good job protecting folk whilst fighting them.

Redhawk, you make a good point of making space for defense forces, but that begs the question of where the hell were they? You had the aerial strikes in Smallville and Metropolis but ground forces were non-existent in Metropolis.

It's something Mark Kermode said about the film. It starts exploring an idea or wants to explore one but the filmmakers lose interest and railroad into the next idea.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I'm still having a tough time with the Zod resolution. I get that in that exact situation he had little choice, but why write yourself into that corner in the first place. I hope when I see it a second time its not as uncomfortable as the first time. It's just so, so weird they wrote an ending where Superman saves the day by violently killing someone then breaking down into tears. It's so depressing lol. Hopefully it'll play differently to me on a second viewing.

This.

Going to see it for the second time tonight, with a bunch of friends. Gonna try and have a different experience and I think being with people who don't take it that seriously anyway will help

 

[T"Challa]

Mark Waid's review pretty much details my issues with the movie. He nailed it better than i ever could. very detailed stuff coming from a guy who knows the character inside out.

http://thrillbent.com/blog/man-of-steel-since-you-asked/

here's the concluding paragraph

Look, I know everyone involved in MAN OF STEEL went into it with the best of intentions. And trust me, there are not rivers or coastlines on this planet long enough to measure just how much I wanted to love this movie. If you don’t know me, you can’t imagine. And there were certainly things to like. But there was no triumph to it. None of Superman’s victories in this movie are in any way the kind of stand-up-and-cheer events you’d think necessary in a movie with Superman in it. Did it succeed in what it sent out to do? I think probably so. But what it set out to do, as it turns out, leaves me cold. With the exception of the first-flight beat–the smile Superman gets when he first takes to the air–it’s utterly joyless. From start to finish. Utterly. Joyless. And I just have no interest in relentless joyless from a guy who can fly.

 

[FN Spider-man]

So how would some of you handle the situation Superman was in with Zod?