What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS*

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You wanna know what's odd? Now that I've seen the movie and didn't like it, I find myself going BACK and starting to rip apart all the things that should have clued me in to begin with. Things that - at first - seemed awe inspiring because of my anticipation and building hype... but now given context should have been dead give-aways about Snyder's mishandling.

Like Krypton. So, so unimaginative and void of feeling. It's like Snyder said, "Okay give me a sci-fi futuristic setting and throw as much s*** on the screen as you can." It just has no character. With Snyder, everything has to be over the top. Even the krypton armor has to be OVERLY textured and complex and mechanical.

I hate to draw the comparison, but you have to appreciate Donner's Krypton in retrospect. His Krypton didn't just feel futuristic, but it also felt cold and sterile. Most importantly, it felt mythical. Krypton bordered on heavenly.

See I don't fault Snyder too much. I fault mostly Goyer here.
 
See I don't fault Snyder too much. I fault mostly Goyer here.

Goyer's writing has nothing to do with Snyder's visual interpretation of Krypton or anything else.

I blame Goyer for a lot of things in this movie, but Snyder is the one who puts the picture on the screen. It's his job to immerse you in the story and the characters.
 
Goyer's writing has nothing to do with Snyder's visual interpretation of Krypton or anything else.

I blame Goyer for a lot of things in this movie, but Snyder is the one who puts the picture on the screen. It's his job to immerse you in the story and the characters.

See the Krypton portion of the film is the one I liked ..... because of the asthetics and Russell Crowe. I almost got Maximus vibes from him. It was a bit rushed though because the audience is shoehorned into developments of an uprising and at the same time a planet rotting from the inside out. I couldn't make out the timeframes occuring throughout that whole thing.

Goyer simply cannot write though. He can lay down concepts, but actually developing them is too much for him. I just rolled my eyes at so much of the dialogue and how he felt compelled to have characters keep re-stating central themes over and over.
 
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I would've loved to see more Kryptonian stuff. The cut from birth to 'Krypton's gonna go boom' was a bit rushed. Some more intrigue would've been sexy.
 
Goyer simply cannot write though. He can lay down concepts, but actually developing them is too much for him. I just rolled my eyes at so much of the dialogue and how he felt compelled to have characters keep re-stating central themese over and over.

It's like he thinks he's writing Shakespeare.

"YOU HAVE ABANDONED THE PRINCIPLES THAT HAVE BOUND US TOGETHER. YOU HAVE TAKEN UP THE SWORD AGAINST YOUR OWN PEOPLE. I WLL HONOR THE MAN YOU WERE ONCE WERE ZOD. NOT THIS MONSTER YOU'VE BECOME!"

It just doesn't work in a movie that has this tone.
 
I have been thinking a lot about the movie and what should have been changed. What do people think of this?

CHANGE 1 - KRYPTONIAN BIRTHS. The monkey skull with billions of people's DNA - accessible by anyone who can swim - was idiotic. I would make Kryptonians reproduce normally.

CHANGE 2 - ZOD V. JOR-EL. With the planet dying because of depleting resources, there were two questions raised: (1) whether those currently living would survive and (2) whether the race would survive. Jor-El wanted to send children and let those on Krypton die.

Consider this: the planet is dying in a matter of days, but could survive longer if they stopped accessing the core's resources. If they survived longer, arrangements could be made to send people to another planet and thousands of people could be saved.

But if they cut off the core in order to buy more time to prepare to leave, millions of people would die. It would have been a very tough moral decision, with Zod choosing to let millions die (not necessarily even kill them) and Jor-El holding firm that the future rested in a few children that could be sent to other planets and they could not let millions of people just die.

Zod tries to shut down the core, gets caught and sent away.

ZOD V. SUPERMAN. Without the monkey skull, Zod would need a new reason to hate Superman. Zod could find Earth because it was visited 18,000 years before and it contained life. The other planets he searched appeared to be dead. He finds earth and has NO INTENTION OF KILLING ANYONE. He wants a place to inhabit co-exist peacefully.

But Zod has seen what happens to entire planets when the people are left without effective leadership. He wants sole control over resources and decisions. He doesn't necessarily intend on killing people or making people slaves, but he will not have his decisions second-guessed.

The people of Earth have no intention of handing over control to an alien, whether he's good-intentioned, correct, or not. Zod could get understandable frustrated and angry and simply assume control over the planet.

People would try and fight back, putting Supes in the middle.

CHANGE 3 - TIMELINE. The story would be linear, starting with Supes as a kid. MUCH, MUCH more time spent on pre-Supes. I would have him discover who he is long before Zod shows up. In fact, he could find the old ship himself, without the military or Lois, and his activating the ship calls Zod to the planet.

When Zod arrives, Supes has known who he is for some time, and has the suit, but has not revealed himself to the planet, and Zod knows only that the ship that visited 18,000 years ago was activated. He doesn't know by whom or why.

Zod then picks up a trace of another ship, the one that brought Supes to Earth. Zod then knows that someone landed 33 years prior.

CHANGE 4 - JOR-EL'S ROLE. An omnipotent "help" desk Jor-El was stupid. He should be a database, that's it. After Zod lands, Supes goes back to the ship to learn about Zod. As he's learning, Zod picks up the location of the ship once again, and Zod shows up. This is how Zod finds Supes, not by visiting the Kent farm that would reveal Supes real identity to the entire world!

Jor-El tells Supes the truth about Zod. But Zod tells a different story, and Supes is very suspicious of Zod from the moment they meet.

CHANGE 5 - JON PETERS **** TOTALLY REMOVED FROM THIS MOVIE!!! The lobster/spider ship with tentacles? Insultingly stupid.

CHANGE 6 - NO MASS DESTRUCTION. Showcase their power without leveling an entire city. That was an awful decision.

Essentially the Zod/Supes disagreement slowly rises. In the beginning, Supes doesn't know what to think, because Zod isn't killing anyone. But as Zod decides to take over control of the planet, Supes has to decide if he agrees with that. When people of earth fight back, Supes has to stop Zod.
 
It's like he thinks he's writing Shakespeare.

"YOU HAVE ABANDONED THE PRINCIPLES THAT HAVE BOUND US TOGETHER. YOU HAVE TAKEN UP THE SWORD AGAINST YOUR OWN PEOPLE. I WLL HONOR THE MAN YOU WERE ONCE WERE ZOD. NOT THIS MONSTER YOU'VE BECOME!"

It just doesn't work in a movie that has this tone.

Ya, that scene captures issues I often have with movies. When they forcefully "tell you" instead of showing you. When you have that important of a dichtomoy going on, it's just my personal preference to try to develop it more than verbally.
 
I stopped caring after the Kryptonians were stupid enough to make sure their most wanted criminals were safe and sound, knowing they were about to die.

Did they really know? Jor-El pled for the Ruling Council to do something about it and suggested that they move onto another planet. He was met with skepticism, and frankly that's not surprising, I mean imagine only one guy tells you that the world is gonna end, would you take him seriously? (I bet off-camera he suggested to move the Kryptonians to the Phantom Zone and the Ruling Council said "lolno").
 
Went to see it last night at the IMAX.

Unfortunetly the more I reflect and think about this film, the more I get annoyed and realise it just wasn't that good. In fact I'm slowly beginning to feel like I dislike this movie. It's Superman Returns all over again (even though they were completely different movies)

Things I hated...

Story

The millions the were plainly and obviously killed while Superman and the Kryptonites were smashing EVERYTHING around them. Superman just didn't really give a f#%k.

The appalling dialogue at times, I actually laughed a couple of times at the pure cheese of the poorly written script.

The flash back scenes didn't have the right pacing, and just didn't gel well enough.

The fortress of solitude/research ship was poor. All the Kryptonian ships looked terrible with very little effort going into the design.

FAR FAR too much action, and incomprehensible action. Mr Bay strikes again.. Oops sorry Zack strikes. Was far too loud as well, and the final fight was ridiculous OVERKILL. I do not want to watch 60mins of continuous CGI even in a comicbook movie. There is so much great material they could use from the Superman universe to flesh out real character development, real romance (in terms of film making and on-screen)

Superman kills Zod, sorry that's a NO.

No warmth about it, for too sterile IMO. I like Henry as Superman, but I just didn't think he was so super compared to Reeves (I don't mean his powers I mean how super protective, super helpful, and super interested he was in us)

Reeves truely cared about humans, Cavill's Superman didn't...clearly.

The devastation on screen was more OTT than 2012!!! That's saying something.

Too many Alien things happening onscreen. It was too much. I did however enjoy Krypton. (3D as good)

Music, Hans Zimmer is NO Williams, not even close. He is a strong composer but def overrated in the comicbook movie world. Most of his scores are not memorable IMO. He doesn't have an ET,BTTF,INDIANA,SUPERMAN, STAR WARS etc etc in his 'we will remember that or hum it' back catalogue. I anted the score to make me feel inspired and to help me root for Superman. I wanted the hairs in my arms to stand on edge because of the combo of superman and soundtrack, it NEVER did. I came out the movie humming Williams as I did going into it. I appreciate the score was subtle and modern, but where was the BIG 'Superman' musical moments.

This Superman won't work in a JL movie, in fact at the moment I CANNOT see how DC can make a JL movie plausible at all.

Zack is a hack, he's a poor director in the bigger scheme of things. Watchman was terrible (you have to adapt scripts) Suckpunch... Please. 300 was above averge JUST... Butler made it memorable, not Zack. This didn't mean I had written off his movie before going in, not at all. I though Nolan could have really helped him develop as a director. Clearly not.

I'm so annoyed about it all actually. It's only a blinking comicbook movie don't get me wrong, but I was so excited. There probably is a happy medium between Singer and Snyder, action and romance. They should have nailed it this time, and again they didn't. Donner's still is the king of Superman directors IMO.


This. This. This.

You can't have Superman help in the destruction of a major city and then lose his **** when Zod is about to kill FOUR humans. I'm sorry but the 'preservation of all life' ship sailed long ago.

The fights went on for too long and caused too much destruction, in the end there were no stakes and I didn't care who lived or died. The very definition of Michael Bay action scene.

The characters were cold and sterile and did nothing more than throw exposition at me (Nolan trade mark is every there were).

Also the running length, you really, really feel it with this movie.
Has Nolan/Snyder killed their editor?

I really dislike this movie.
 
People have problems with the film. I've watched it three times with different people and the feedback is the same. Great film until the character development gives way to collateral damage and disaster porn.

Do your friends not understand how movies work?

This is a pretty standard and accepted practice of moviemaking.

AGAIN, WHY WAS LOIS LANE BROUGHT UP TO ZOD'S SHIP?

It made zero sense. No, it made negative sense.

Because she had knowledge of Superman and his activities on Earth.

I stopped caring after the Kryptonians were stupid enough to make sure their most wanted criminals were safe and sound, knowing they were about to die.

The Kryptonian Council didn't think they were actually going to die.

Like Krypton. So, so unimaginative and void of feeling. It's like Snyder said, "Okay give me a sci-fi futuristic setting and throw as much s*** on the screen as you can." It just has no character. With Snyder, everything has to be over the top. Even the krypton armor has to be OVERLY textured and complex and mechanical.

I’m sorry…really?

First you say it has no imagination…and then you say it’s overly designed and conceived?

Krypton looked incredible, was very well fleshed out, and pretty darned creative compared to a lot of sci-fi we've seen.

You can't have Superman help in the destruction of a major city and then lose his **** when Zod is about to kill FOUR humans. I'm sorry but the 'preservation of all life' ship sailed long ago.

Superman didn’t help in the destruction of a major city...he was trying to stop it.

If anything, the fact that he gets that upset over just four people is all the more powerful.
 
This. This. This.

You can't have Superman help in the destruction of a major city and then lose his **** when Zod is about to kill FOUR humans. I'm sorry but the 'preservation of all life' ship sailed long ago.

The fights went on for too long and caused too much destruction, in the end there were no stakes and I didn't care who lived or died. The very definition of Michael Bay action scene.

The characters were cold and sterile and did nothing more than throw exposition at me (Nolan trade mark is every there were).

Also the running length, you really, really feel it with this movie.
Has Nolan/Snyder killed their editor?

I really dislike this movie.


Agreed.

It was like watching Transformers ALL OVER AGAIN. I'm getting on now, I'm in my early thirties. I find myself slowly getting less and less interested in the BIG budget CGI flag post movies these days. Man of Steel is different, I wanted to see this as I'm a fan of Superman (similiar with ST). It should appeal to young and old, also appeal to people that want an easy film to watch, but also people that might want a bit of gravitas (in terms of an intelligent script, character development, comprehensible action and entertainment) EVEN Disney movies made primary to entertain children manages this.

I see Hollywood for what it is now (in terms of the BIG recent releases) Summer blockbusters now need to be BIG, EXPLOSIVE, FULL OF CGI, and UNINTELLIGENT (I don't particularly mean the people who will enjoy it are unitelligent, not at all. I just mean the concept and execution is unintelligent) Film-makers plainly are losing faith that the general audience might actually want something more that loud CGI explosions for two hours.

What every happened to the good quality, well scripted, well developed idea's of the 80's and early 90's when it comes to big budget summer blockbusters. Has Hollywood just become lazy, or are the personnel just not up to it, has creativity ran out?

This movie had people involved who I though would have sat down watched the final cut, or watched the movie in process and thought, hmmmm this just isn't hitting the spot. There is a split of opinion on this movie, and after the horrendous SR (for different reasons) I thought the brians behind such a potentially massive franchise, and much loved character would have given it a bit more effort, or made sure that any 'haters' were few and far between.

I've had it was big CGI messes on screen, and losing faith in the blockbuster process. However before I'm lambasted by all the lover of this film, and told 'how can you have a movie without OTT effects etc'... I will concede, maybe I'm just growing up and that's why I can't sit and accept that this was anything other than average, or any other bloated summer blockbuster CGI mess.
 
Agreed.

It was like watching Transformers ALL OVER AGAIN. I'm getting on now, I'm in my early thirties. I find myself slowly getting less and less interested in the BIG budget CGI flag post movies these days. Man of Steel is different, I wanted to see this as I'm a fan of Superman (similiar with ST). It should appeal to young and old, also appeal to people that want an easy film to watch, but also people that might want a bit of gravitas (in terms of an intelligent script, character development, comprehensible action and entertainment) EVEN Disney movies made primary to entertain children manages this.

I see Hollywood for what it is now (in terms of the BIG recent releases) Summer blockbusters now need to be BIG, EXPLOSIVE, FULL OF CGI, and UNINTELLIGENT (I don't particularly mean the people who will enjoy it are unitelligent, not at all. I just mean the concept and execution is unintelligent) Film-makers plainly are losing faith that the general audience might actually want something more that loud CGI explosions for two hours.

What every happened to the good quality, well scripted, well developed idea's of the 80's and early 90's when it comes to big budget summer blockbusters. Has Hollywood just become lazy, or are the personnel just not up to it, has creativity ran out?

This movie had people involved who I though would have sat down watched the final cut, or watched the movie in process and thought, hmmmm this just isn't hitting the spot. There is a split of opinion on this movie, and after the horrendous SR (for different reasons) I thought the brians behind such a potentially massive franchise, and much loved character would have given it a bit more effort, or made sure that any 'haters' were few and far between.

I've had it was big CGI messes on screen, and losing faith in the blockbuster process. However before I'm lambasted by all the lover of this film, and told 'how can you have a movie without OTT effects etc'... I will concede, maybe I'm just growing up and that's why I can't sit and accept that this was anything other than average, or any other bloated summer blockbuster CGI mess.

To compare and contrast, in Spider-Man 2 there is a train fight and Doc Ock grabs 2 (TWO!!) innocent bystanders and you care whether or not Spidey saves them. You care if the train is going to go off the edge of the bridge.
In MoS thousands of lives are in danger and I didn't care and WORSE it looks like Superman doesn't care either. Look at Reeve's reaction when the Aliens are about to throw a bus, Cavil didn't look bothered when whole BUILDINGS were coming down around his ears.

Soulless action from a director who simply doesn't understand that less is more. Time for me to start avoiding Synder movies, he's burnt me too many times.
 
I can't speak for everyone, but I know I cared that a bunch of buildings with people potentially inside them were collapsing.

Weird, I know.

And Superman looked plenty bothered by it.
 
I’m sorry…really?

First you say it has no imagination…and then you say it’s overly designed and conceived?

Krypton looked incredible, was very well fleshed out, and pretty darned creative compared to a lot of sci-fi we've seen.

How did those scenes on Krypton make you feel? What could you tell about this civilization other than the fact that they're at war?

I really didn't think there was anything creative or original about Snyder's Krypton. It felt like something I've already seen in a Star Wars prequel. Weird tech, weird flying creatures, tons of things happening... but no character. There was no wonder.

And that is ultimately this movie's biggest problem. Things are told to you and things are shown to you, but it doesn't make you feel anything. And that is why there is no emotional investment in anything that's happening.
 
Because she had knowledge of Superman and his activities on Earth.
Did they ever ask for her knowledge once she boarded the ship?

(No, honestly, I forgot and was wondering if anyone knew. All I remember was
they locked her in the cell and then Jor-El helped her escape
so I wanted to double check.)
 
How did those scenes on Krypton make you feel? What could you tell about this civilization other than the fact that they're at war?

I really didn't think there was anything creative or original about Snyder's Krypton. It felt like something I've already seen in a Star Wars prequel. Weird tech, weird flying creatures, tons of things happening... but no character. There was no wonder.

And that is ultimately this movie's biggest problem. Things are told to you and things are shown to you, but it doesn't make you feel anything. And that is why there is no emotional investment in anything that's happening.

Agreed,

Krypton was not developed in anyway. The ships looked like crafts that Lucas decided against during the Phantom Menace pre-production. They just didn't look good.

There was no connection with Krytonians, Snyder didn't make us care about them, or their world. No explanation of anything particularly, completely rushed and poorly conceived.

Let's not even start about the editing, what was the timeline of events? The appalling editing continued till the end credits started to roll 2hrs later. It was chunkier than a Yorkie bar. Absolutely horrendous pacing.. In fact it was a 'Gold Star' poor editing performance.

Did they honestly watch this back after it came from the editing studio and think.... YES this is awesome.. I now know why the reviews came late for MoS, cos they knew it wasn't even close to being great. Or the editing overran and they just though, f#*k it, that's it done!!!! Go go go...

And to strengthen what has already been said, the poor character development, and Zack's inability to create people we cared about created the most amazing apathy in my part. I didn't even really care about Superman, but I suppose he didn't really care about humans after his grand gesture of surrender.
 
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How did those scenes on Krypton make you feel? What could you tell about this civilization other than the fact that they're at war?

I really didn't think there was anything creative or original about Snyder's Krypton. It felt like something I've already seen in a Star Wars prequel. Weird tech, weird flying creatures, tons of things happening... but no character. There was no wonder.

And that is ultimately this movie's biggest problem. Things are told to you and things are shown to you, but it doesn't make you feel anything. And that is why there is no emotional investment in anything that's happening.

I liked when Jor-el connected his hair to his toruk. :yay:
 
Let's not even start about the editing, what was the timeline of events? The appalling editing continued till the end credits started to roll 2hrs later. It was chunkier than a Yorkie bar.

Did they honestly watch this back after it came from the editing studio and think.... YES this is awesome.. I now know why the reviews came late for MoS, cos they knew it wasn't even close to being great. Or the editing overran and they just though, f#*k it, that's it done!!!! Go go go....

While I found some enjoyment in the Krypton portion of the movie, I will agree the timelines of it are confusing as we the audience are just rushed into this big uprising/coup and a planet deteriorating.
 
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While I found some enjoyment in the Krypton portion of the movie, I will agree the timelines of it are confusing as we the audience are just rushed into this big melee being and uprising and a planet deteriorating.

On first viewing, I was quite impressed by the Krypton scene's, the editing and pacing niggled a bit even at the time, but it's with reflection having seen the rest of the mess I realised, even the Krypton part was average.

Thought the 3D was really good in the first act though. At least that extra couple of quid wasn't completely wasted.
 
Agreed,

Krypton was not developed in anyway. The ships looked like crafts that Lucas decided against during the Phantom Menace pre-production. They just didn't look good.

There was no connection with Krytonians, Snyder didn't make us care about them, or their world. No explanation of anything particularly, completely rushed and poorly conceived.

Let's not even start about the editing, what was the timeline of events? The appalling editing continued till the end credits started to roll 2hrs later. It was chunkier than a Yorkie bar. Absolutely horrendous pacing.. In fact it was a 'Gold Star' poor editing performance.

Did they honestly watch this back after it came from the editing studio and think.... YES this is awesome.. I now know why the reviews came late for MoS, cos they knew it wasn't even close to being great. Or the editing overran and they just though, f#*k it, that's it done!!!! Go go go...

And to strengthen what has already been said, the poor character development, and Zack's inability to create people we cared about created the most amazing apathy in my part. I didn't even really care about Superman, but I suppose he didn't really care about humans after his grand gesture of surrender.

The movie refuses to linger on significant moments.
The Aliens have landed - hit the pause button - how do people feel about that?
Superman revealed - hit the pause button - get some reactions
Metropolis destroyed - hit the pause button - how do you deal with death and destruction on a city wide scale?

I'm just pushed from one action scene to the next with no chance to catch my breath so when the action starts and people die in their thousands I couldn't care less. The people don't seem to care about life changing events so why should I?

And before someone says the movie was too long as it is without pausing on moments, there was a lot of action that could and frankly SHOULD have been cut.
 
I liked the Kyrpton scenes when it focused on the people.

Once they went into FX wizardry mode, I agree it was too much, became distracting and kind of eyerolling annoying. I felt like I watching George Lucas go "Look at what I can do!" all over again.

AGAIN, WHY WAS LOIS LANE BROUGHT UP TO ZOD'S SHIP?

It made zero sense. No, it made negative sense.
I was going to say to keep Kal-El on his best behavior except he and Lois didnt really know each other well up to that point.

So yea... doesnt make sense really :)
 
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I liked the Kyrpton scenes when it focused on the people.

Once they went into FX wizardry mode, I agree it was too much, became distracting and kind of eyerolling annoying. I felt like I watching George Lucas go "Look at what I can do!" all over again.

I got an Avatar vibe there too.
 
The movie refuses to linger on significant moments.
The Aliens have landed - hit the pause button - how do people feel about that?
Superman revealed - hit the pause button - get some reactions
Metropolis destroyed - hit the pause button - how do you deal with death and destruction on a city wide scale?

I'm just pushed from one action scene to the next with no chance to catch my breath so when the action starts and people die in their thousands I couldn't care less. The people don't seem to care about life changing events so why should I?

And before someone says the movie was too long as it is without pausing on moments, there was a lot of action that could and frankly SHOULD have been cut.

Zack's should direct Video Games, and he should stop there. This making movies with depth and developments, or in fact with any level of comprehension is beyond him.

This movie was made to please the 'Transformers' generation, after all the revenue those cartoon like movies made is truly fantastic. It's a movie for blinkered fans, or 12 year olds. The critics got this right, even I was sceptable about what some of the critics were saying, surely it's not 55% on RT. I fell for the 'jumped up' fanboy (anything would be AWESOME) reviews. However the critics by in large got this spot on.

The film had more holes than the net on the fishing boat we absurdly cut to after the first act.

However I will concede, if you're into cartoon character levels of development, and mindless action provided through CGI then this really is... AWESOME.
 
Zack's should direct Video Games, and he should stop there. This making movies with depth and developments, or in fact with any level of comprehension is beyond him.

This movie was made to please the 'Transformers' generation, after all the revenue those cartoon like movies made is truly fantastic. It's a movie for blinkered fans, or 12 year olds. The critics got this right, even I was sceptable about what some of the critics were saying, surely it's not 55% on RT. I fell for the 'jumped up' fanboy (anything would be AWESOME) reviews. However the critics by in large got this spot on.

The film had more holes than the net on the fishing boat we absurdly cut to after the first act.

However I will concede, if you're into cartoon character levels of development, and mindless action provided through CGI then this really is... AWESOME.

I quite enjoyed 300 so Snyder does have character development in him or did he just take the comic and put it on the big screen without understanding the 'why'?

There were things that I thought he did well, the young Clark scenes were touching and heartfelt but just as you go to grab it the movie thrusts you into another action scene.

I think if Snyder wants to become a better director he should direct a drama so doesn't have the crutch of action to fall back on.

I will also say that better editing, I.e getting rid of repetitive action would help this movie a LOT.
 
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