What can DC/WB do now to move forward? Is there hope?

[TheCommissioner]

I think more people want DCEU movies to be good not necessarily be like MCU, except in reception.

These current DCEU as constituted aren't hitting with everyone. If they are hitting with you, then you shouldn't complain about the other people and the critics.

If you want WB to make better DCEU which ironically would mean better received by more people and critics, then what's the issue? Being made better =/= being like Marvel.

Fans want validation

critical acclaim is a big part of that

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

not necessarily be like MCU, except in reception.

That's what I meant by be like Marvel. That and to also make their movies like Marvel such as have a seperate studio and have one guy dictating to everyone.

 

[TheCommissioner]

That's what I meant by be like Marvel. That and to also make their movies like Marvel such as have a seperate studio and have one guy dictating to everyone.

I don't think wanting a film to have critical acclaim is wanting "to be like Marvel"

like I said, fans want validation, that their time invested has meant something

critical acclaim is a part of that, to not only have people like the film but respect it

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

BvS had one of my favorite iterations of the Batmobile

that thing is badass, looks like the type of vehicle that humps other cars on the road just because it can

I never understood the draw of the Batmobile, I never understood why men wanted to drive and own it... Until BvS! That thing was awesome and everytime I see it I temporarily turn into a 13 yr old boy.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

It's not about Smith per se but the franchise. Our movie watching is geared towards franchises. That's why movie studios are obsessed with them. How many Fast and Furious, Jurassic movies, Potter and Star Wars movies are we seeing?

Your very right about that it's a sad truth. In the 90s it was about the star now today its about the franchise. I still think some stars can be successful with non franchise films, they may not be billion dollar makers but they can still pull in some cash. I know Tom Cruise has his MI franchise but he still makes single films that do fairly well. And Brad Pitt had a hit with WWZ if I remember correctly.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Your very right about that it's a sad truth. In the 90s it was about the star now today its about the franchise. I still think some stars can be successful with non franchise films, they may not be billion dollar makers but they can still pull in some cash. I know Tom Cruise has his MI franchise but he still makes single films that do fairly well. And Brad Pitt had a hit with WWZ if I remember correctly.

WWZ was a moderate success, IIRC

I enjoyed it, Im also a sucker for disaster movies

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Isn't that a big problem? Each movie should have built the DCEU. If you think the success of this is not important then there's absolutely no reason for this movie to be made.

The people in WB has absolutely no clue. Worse than the Sony people.

For DCEU it does nothing. For WB is gives them another movie that could also be just shy of another $1 billion. This "clueless" studio had their 2nd most profitable year ever in 2016 with movies like Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad, and Fantastic Beasts. A clueless studio would be one that wouldn't want to build on this success with proven money making movies and instead just muddle on with movies that may or may not hit. Do you really think Flash or Aquaman are going to be a bigger draw than Harley Quinn?

Yeah, I don't get the Ayer decision either. Furthermore, I don't get the Deadshot solo either. That's one movie I don't care to see at all.

Who pitched the idea for a GCS movie to WB? Who was her directer in SS? Who made a movie that made $745 million for WB this year?

instead of being selective to make great films, WB/DC are throwing stuff to the wall and see what sticks. Harley & Deadshot were the highlights of that piece of crap of a movie? yeah let's make movies about them. FFS, Harley & Deadshot are Batman villains, you should only make them villains and who feature in Batman movies mainly with not-so-big roles. Which leads me to the next point, Suicide Squad came too early, the same as BvS. We should have seen these villains in other movies, then gather them, that way we now they are really villains. BTW, an other version of Suicide Squad should have be done, not that garbage we saw.

Just because this is the sequence some people want to see happen doesn't make it any more valid than what the studio is planning. They have other things to consider than pandering to a select group of fanboy visions. Such as Harley Quinn is very popular and they want to make money of of her so they have money for other movie. Margot Robbie is very popular and they want to make her happy so she keeps making movies for them. The point of making movies is ultimately to make money.
Just because certain groups didn't like them doesn't mean millions of other people won't enjoy seeing more like them.

In the past 20 years, Smith has had 4 movies over $200M domestically and of those 4, 2 over $300M.

Also, 1 movie that received a certified RT score, although I'm sure Six Degrees of Separation should be added.

So I'm not sure he is a bankable star. Actually, I think movie stars have given way towards franchises.

Will Smith is still a huge star overseas. You can't just look at domestic box office when considering Will Smith. Suicide Squad made a bigger chunk of its money overseas than it did domestic, and that was without China. Almost $100 million more.

That's what I meant by be like Marvel. That and to also make their movies like Marvel such as have a seperate studio and have one guy dictating to everyone.

That was the point of Warner Bros. creating DC Films this past May and making Geoff Johns the president and Chief Creative Officer of it.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Yes but DC still hasn't gotten 50 million on rotten tomatoes and $1 billion at the box office so people here still think they aren't good enough. BTW what was WBs most profitable year?

 

[Erzengel]

Will Smith is still a huge star overseas. You can't just look at domestic box office when considering Will Smith. Suicide Squad made a bigger chunk of its money overseas than it did domestic, and that was without China. Almost $100 million more.

This is like Cruise. I've previously mentioned how some of these stars are still big overseas, but domestically there aren't really any movie stars anymore.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Yes but DC still hasn't gotten 50 million on rotten tomatoes and $1 billion at the box office so people here still think they aren't good enough. BTW what was WBs most profitable year?

probably the year Deathly Hallows came out?

 

[Erzengel]

Ironically, 2013 the year MOS came out at least domestically. Unless WB makes another $8M more this year.

 

[kguillou]

To add a little perspective, people should keep in mind a little franchise called The Fast and the Furious. The first four movies were critically panned, the first F&F got a mixed reception but gathered enough of a fanbase to keep making movies and made good money at the BO.....like Man of Steel. The following movies were much more panned by fans and critics and by the time the fourth one came out I think most people thought the franchise was dead and no one was even interested in another movie.

Then Fast Five happened. It breathed new life into the franchise. 5 years later F7 made as much as THE AVENGERS, and to top it all off, the critics loved it. Now, F8, despite its quality is going to make serious bank at the BO.

The point of this comparison? People have short memories and always love a comeback. People are saying "the DCEU is dead, bury it, even if JL is a better movie there's no hope. It's time to reboot." Wrong, all it takes is that ONE movie, that one movie to hit that mark critically and financially like Fast Five and you have yourself a flourishing franchise. Its never too late, folks.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Fast Five is the ultimate story in franchise overhaul/course correction

 

[Patchwork Man]

The point of this comparison? People have short memories and always love a comeback. People are saying "the DCEU is dead, bury it, even if JL is a better movie there's no hope. It's time to reboot." Wrong, all it takes is that ONE movie, that one movie to hit that mark critically and financially like Fast Five and you have yourself a flourishing franchise. Its never too late, folks.

Well said. That's the battle flag of a subset of fans who mostly populate comics-oriented message boards like SHH. They're the ones who want a retread of trunks-Superman. Remember the third X-Men film? It's an abomination, yet it made more money than the first two. Spider-Man 3 film performed similarly. While readers bemoaned those films, the general public did not. That's why Suicide Squad performed beyond expectations ("not going to crack 500M") and X-Men: Apocalypse, the latest film belonging to a franchise aged 17 years, slipped on a banana peel. The guys and gals who think Batman should disarm 30 Uzi-wielding commandos with a single Batarang are not the ones who dictate which movies get made. I think Wonder Woman may be the film that resonates most strongly with general audiences, though the action sequences of Justice League will no doubt be the DCEU's grandest yet.

 

[kguillou]

And, again, I wanna be fair, I put myself in the mindset of the detractors, not the trolls but the genuine fans who felt really let down by the films. I get it, I can understand just feeling so colossally deflated because the films didn't turn out the way you wanted after so much anticipation, I think that upset blinds them a little to where they think there's no coming back. If Wonder Woman and JL hit the mark next year, DC is back in the game and the sky's the limit. As long as the product is good and continues to be good, people won't care what came before, just ask all the new F&F fans who hated the first four films.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Patchwork, why do you think Apocalypse, as you said, slipped on a banana peel?

 

[brandeezy89]

Idk how you compare Sony to WB and say that Sony knows what they're doing more than WB. At least WB made big changes this year to change the narrative at the studio and didn't stick their heads in the sand like Sony. Everyone hates everyone over there, i wouldn't be surprised if they fumble SM:HC

 

[Erzengel]

To add a little perspective, people should keep in mind a little franchise called The Fast and the Furious. The first four movies were critically panned, the first F&F got a mixed reception but gathered enough of a fanbase to keep making movies and made good money at the BO.....like Man of Steel. The following movies were much more panned by fans and critics and by the time the fourth one came out I think most people thought the franchise was dead and no one was even interested in another movie.

Then Fast Five happened. It breathed new life into the franchise. 5 years later F7 made as much as THE AVENGERS, and to top it all off, the critics loved it. Now, F8, despite its quality is going to make serious bank at the BO.

The point of this comparison? People have short memories and always love a comeback. People are saying "the DCEU is dead, bury it, even if JL is a better movie there's no hope. It's time to reboot." Wrong, all it takes is that ONE movie, that one movie to hit that mark critically and financially like Fast Five and you have yourself a flourishing franchise. Its never too late, folks.

It may not be an apt comparison because F&F series took 5 movies just to break over $375 WW.

I've used the comparison before and I know fans don't like it but Pirates and Transformers so far. Both first movies maybe even like Man of Steel in terms of quality. Then poor sequels. BUT still making a good amount of money some even north of $1B.

There are multiple scenarios that can come up with this. The DCEU can continue with how they are doing. They could start slowly building up to a higher RT. They can get a high RT right off the bat, with varying BO totals.

Well said. That's the battle flag of a subset of fans who mostly populate comics-oriented message boards like SHH. They're the ones who want a retread of trunks-Superman. Remember the third X-Men film? It's an abomination, yet it made more money than the first two. Spider-Man 3 film performed similarly. While readers bemoaned those films, the general public did not. That's why Suicide Squad performed beyond expectations ("not going to crack 500M") and X-Men: Apocalypse, the latest film belonging to a franchise aged 17 years, slipped on a banana peel. The guys and gals who think Batman should disarm 30 Uzi-wielding commandos with a single Batarang are not the ones who dictate which movies get made. I think Wonder Woman may be the film that resonates most strongly with general audiences, though the action sequences of Justice League will no doubt be the DCEU's grandest yet.

Again, the TF and Pirates scenario. If you have no problem with the quality of the DCEU and it's making money, who cares what critics think. See X:TLS, Spider-Man 3, SS, etc.

But then don't complain about a critics bias or that it's not CB darling like TDK or TWS or DOFP is.

Idk how you compare Sony to WB and say that Sony knows what they're doing more than WB. At least WB made big changes this year to change the narrative at the studio and didn't stick their heads in the sand like Sony. Everyone hates everyone over there, i wouldn't be surprised if they fumble SM:HC

WB can't be like Sony or vice versa. Sony has ONE character that's it. Regardless of what type of universe they want/did want to build. Sony punted to Marvel to make the movie and let Sony distribute it. It's a smart decision on both their ends.

WB owns these characters, and they are too far down the road to make changes. But they can "try" and do the best they can.

However, UNTIL they come out with consistently good movies, they will get criticized for every move that they make whether you agree with it or not.

 

[dnno1]

Yeah, I kinda feel bad for Miller. The guy is a great actor but he faces an uphill battle because:

1. Some fans are loyal to the Grant Gustin version and therefore won't give him a chance
2. He doesn't look much like the comic book version of Barry (even though this is a common issue with a lot of superhero casting)
3. His solo film has already lost two directors
4. The DCEU is already off to a rocky start.

I wouldn't feel bad for him. At least he has a challenge as opposed to being handed a golden slipper in the form of a multi-billion dollar award winning, critically acclaimed franchise like, maybe, a Star Wars, or Harry Potter or something like that.

 

[Greens]

To add a little perspective, people should keep in mind a little franchise called The Fast and the Furious. The first four movies were critically panned, the first F&F got a mixed reception but gathered enough of a fanbase to keep making movies and made good money at the BO.....like Man of Steel. The following movies were much more panned by fans and critics and by the time the fourth one came out I think most people thought the franchise was dead and no one was even interested in another movie.

Then Fast Five happened. It breathed new life into the franchise. 5 years later F7 made as much as THE AVENGERS, and to top it all off, the critics loved it. Now, F8, despite its quality is going to make serious bank at the BO.

The point of this comparison? People have short memories and always love a comeback. People are saying "the DCEU is dead, bury it, even if JL is a better movie there's no hope. It's time to reboot." Wrong, all it takes is that ONE movie, that one movie to hit that mark critically and financially like Fast Five and you have yourself a flourishing franchise. Its never too late, folks.

Fast Five breathed new life into the franchise because it put the formula of the old F&F movies on its head. The basic skeleton was still there, but a whole bunch of new elements were added to make it a smash hit. Can the DCEU come back? Of course it can, but not if they continue on this course. They're gonna have to invest in better story telling to keep the show on the road.

 

[Consona]

Justice League vs Suicide Squad


Cannot wait for the internet to explode after this being officially announced.

 

[The Joker]

DC Movies Producer: 'We Haven't Taken Into Consideration If Something Goes Wrong'

Again hope seems even further away.

 

[batfreakforever]

One sentence from the producer and some peoples whole world comes crashing down.
He said it was also because of family reasons. He didn't want to be away too far from them.
But people just conveniently forget to mention that fact.
Every franchise reshuffles.
Don't make a big deal out of it.

 

[The Joker]

One sentence from the producer and some peoples whole world comes crashing down.

Totally. Christmas is ruined. I'll go rock in a corner and cry.

He said it was also because of family reasons. He didn't want to be away too far from them.
But people just conveniently forget to mention that fact.

Who cares what his reasoning for it is. Does it change the outcome or implications of what he's saying? No.

Every franchise reshuffles.

They usually take into consideration what can wrong when they plan 8 movies.

Don't make a big deal out of it.

WB could announce they are letting Michael Bay direct the rest of the DCEU and you'd say that's no big deal because he made movies that made over a billion.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

DC Movies Producer: 'We Haven't Taken Into Consideration If Something Goes Wrong'

Again hope seems even further away.

What the io9 article left out of the Hollywood Reporter interview:

"This year alone, Roven has produced three pictures that together have earned more than $2 billion at the box office: Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, Warcraft: The Beginning and Suicide Squad —
and in February, he'll also have the $150 million-plus Matt Damon starrer The Great Wall (which opens Dec. 16 in China)."

What about Justice League?
We knew we were making a very serious, compelling, driving film with Batman v. Superman. Now the bell has been rung and the whole tone of the movie is lighter.

If there is a sequel to Batman v. Superman or Suicide Squad, will the budgets be lower? They made less than the studio had hoped.
Suicide Squad made almost $750 million. Batman v. Superman did $873 million. Those two movies were huge hits.