What can DC/WB do now to move forward? Is there hope?

[The Joker]

What about Justice League?
We knew we were making a very serious, compelling, driving film with Batman v. Superman. Now the bell has been rung and the whole tone of the movie is lighter.

By bell being rung they mean the plethora of critcism it got. But still as clueless as ever. People were not clamoring for a lighter movie. Audiences have no problem with dark gritty serious movies. TDK trilogy proves that. It's piss poor executed movies that put people off like BvS.

If there is a sequel to Batman v. Superman or Suicide Squad, will the budgets be lower? They made less than the studio had hoped.
Suicide Squad made almost $750 million. Batman v. Superman did $873 million. Those two movies were huge hits.

To deny they were expecting BvS to make a billion is hilarious. Their last two Batman movies made a billion each. That's just Batman on his own. Batman and Superman together couldn't even get close to a billion here.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Now I want to see BvS with supes and bats learning to drive. Probably would've been more entertaining.

 

[hellblazer103]

Nothing. All hope is lost.

/thread

 

[Osiris-Rex]

OTOH I don't think anyone seriously expected Suicide Squad to make as much as it did and for as long as it did. Especially with it being denied release in China.
That's why I think sticking a few off the wall movies in here and there like Gotham City Sirens is better than sticking with a rigid schedule of movie A, the movie B,
then movie C no matter what. Because problems are always going to pop up and they need something to fall back on. So holding off movie B until later on and
putting in something like GCS instead could be better in the long run.

 

[Erzengel]

By bell being rung they mean the plethora of critcism it got. But still as clueless as ever. People were not clamoring for a lighter movie. Audiences have no problem with dark gritty serious movies. TDK trilogy proves that. It's piss poor executed movies that put people off like BvS.





To deny they were expecting BvS to make a billion is hilarious. Their last two Batman movies made a billion each. That's just Batman on his own. Batman and Superman together couldn't even get close to a billion here.

Did he just use the same thing Luthor said in the movie?

 

[MadVillainy]

By bell being rung they mean the plethora of critcism it got. But still as clueless as ever. People were not clamoring for a lighter movie. Audiences have no problem with dark gritty serious movies. TDK trilogy proves that. It's piss poor executed movies that put people off like BvS.

ID have to slightly disagree/have a minor gripe

I do think that audiences don't mind darker movies on the whole. What they don't like are "grim" movies, there's a difference. BvS is just this dour, grim movie that goes beyond being dark to just feeling like every character should be on Zoloft.
The same thing I hear about the Assassin's Creed movie. That it's just this joyless experience with miserable seeming characters. And if you're going to have a joyless miserable movie. You at least have to freaking bring it (Beasts of the Southern Wild, Foxcather to name to recent ones)

 

[ArkhamImperial]

At this point, just become more focused in their overall approach in storytelling.
Batman v Superman had a lot of great ideas that just got jumbled together, so it wasn't as hard-hitting as it could have been.

I don't feel like DC/WB needs to go lighter with their films, unless it's a natural change that compliments the overall story. I'm sure the Flash, alone, will bring humor, but it doesn't need to be forced. I don't want cheesy jokes, or dance-offs.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

ID have to slightly disagree/have a minor gripe

I do think that audiences don't mind darker movies on the whole. What they don't like are "grim" movies, there's a difference. BvS is just this dour, grim movie that goes beyond being dark to just feeling like every character should be on Zoloft.
The same thing I hear about the Assassin's Creed movie. That it's just this joyless experience with miserable seeming characters. And if you're going to have a joyless miserable movie. You at least have to freaking bring it (Beasts of the Southern Wild, Foxcather to name to recent ones)

I think the main thing is that you need entertaining characters that people care about. But when they are all dull and depressing (aside from Luthor who is a B&R-style cartoon character), people simply don't care what happens and you end up with a film that is "joyless."

It has little to do with being dark. Game of Thrones is widely popular and is way darker than BvS with the bad guys frequently slaughtering the heroes in gruesome ways. But it is also filled with great characters that people like (or like to hate).

BvS is more boring than anything.

Of course there are a lot of problems as well, such as the central conflict being very poorly written and being resolved in a ridiculously unbelievable way. The sort of stuff drags it down from the mediocre levels of something like Watchmen to a film that ends up being outright terrible.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

At this point, just become more focused in their overall approach in storytelling.
Batman v Superman had a lot of great ideas that just got jumbled together, so it wasn't as hard-hitting as it could have been.

I don't feel like DC/WB needs to go lighter with their films, unless it's a natural change that compliments the overall story. I'm sure the Flash, alone, will bring humor, but it doesn't need to be forced. I don't want cheesy jokes, or dance-offs.

I think this is the reason that DC Films is doing a Gotham City Sirens movie. Obviously this is a movie intended to be a wacky caper movie to sort of prove that not all DC movies need to be
end of the world serious. Just three women out on the town creating mayhem.
I get the idea the original intent of Suicide Squad was to be an end of the world serious movie but when the negative reaction to Batman v Superman came out it was butchered up to make it into a fun romp.
But it was too late to change the tone enough and that is why it ended up being a mess.
I think a movie made as a fun romp from the outset may fare better.

 

[Greens]

If there are world-ending stakes in Gotham City Sirens I will burn every DC comic book I own.

 

[ArkhamImperial]

I think this is the reason that DC Films is doing a Gotham City Sirens movie. Obviously this is a movie intended to be a wacky caper movie to sort of prove that not all DC movies need to be
end of the world serious. Just three women out on the town creating mayhem.
I get the idea the original intent of Suicide Squad was to be an end of the world serious movie but when the negative reaction to Batman v Superman came out it was butchered up to make it into a fun romp.
But it was too late to change the tone enough and that is why it ended up being a mess.
I think a movie made as a fun romp from the outset may fare better.

I imagine that Gotham City Sirens will be the movie to break free from the high stakes and world-ending scenarios. It just needs to have substance, tell a good story and drive the DCEU forward; or, at the very least, give more of a backstory on Harley Quinn. There's a lot of potential here for a fun movie, filled with thrills and iconic moments.

 

[Godzillasaurus]

^GCS won't be able to drive the DCEU forward by itself. It's a group effort.

Not only would it be particularly difficult for ONE film to make or break a franchise, especially that far into said cinematic universe, but this film isn't even Batman or Superman. If Justice League fails, you can kiss GCS goodbye

 

[ArkhamImperial]

^GCS won't be able to drive the DCEU forward by itself. It's a group effort.

Not only would it be particularly difficult for ONE film to make or break a franchise, especially that far into said cinematic universe, but this film isn't even Batman or Superman. If Justice League fails, you can kiss GCS goodbye

I meant driving it forward story-wise; I just don't want it to be a random stand alone film.

I know there's only so much that can be done, but I'm sure WB won't let Justice League fail. BvS was one thing, but now they're putting all of their eggs into one basket: Batman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Flash and the resurrection of Superman all on the big screen.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

^GCS won't be able to drive the DCEU forward by itself. It's a group effort.

Not only would it be particularly difficult for ONE film to make or break a franchise, especially that far into said cinematic universe, but this film isn't even Batman or Superman. If Justice League fails, you can kiss GCS goodbye

By the time Justice League is in theaters they will likely have already started filming Gotham City Sirens, with is being set for an August 10, 2018 release date. They were already
talking about doing a Harley Quinn movie before Suicide Squad was in theaters. Now we have gotten a working title, a director, a writer, a lead actor, and the character the actor
is playing. All there is left to announce is the other characters and actors playing them.
If they are depending in JL to make or break the franchise likely all the other movies with later filming and release dates will be scrapped too.
If a film with three Batman characters can't do well, does Flash or Cyborg, or even Aquaman have much chance? Flash doesn't even have a director right now.

 

[kguillou]

Cut out studio interference. That is the #1 thing they need to do and we're already 50% of the way there. Dark tone and plot issues aside, the #1 thing that killed BvS and SS critically was that the products they put in theaters were incoherent frankenstein monster versions put together at the last hour by the studio not the directors or production team. Would Snyder and Ayer's original films have been received better? Who knows, but at the very least they could have been judged on their own merits instead of glaring editing and pacing problems being at the forefront.

Leave Jenkins alone for Wonder Woman, let her put out HER final edit in the theater and I guarantee you we'll get at LEAST a solid, coherent film.

 

[Luke234]

By bell being rung they mean the plethora of critcism it got. But still as clueless as ever. People were not clamoring for a lighter movie. Audiences have no problem with dark gritty serious movies. TDK trilogy proves that. It's piss poor executed movies that put people off like BvS.





To deny they were expecting BvS to make a billion is hilarious. Their last two Batman movies made a billion each. That's just Batman on his own. Batman and Superman together couldn't even get close to a billion here.

It's not my money so I don't care if they missed out on a couple hundred thousand bucks, but if the critics didn't find that it was no more watchable than a Mortal Kombat sequel it would have hit the billion mark.
I mean, I know it was divisive but that's just hating to have it comparable to that.

 

[Erzengel]

It's not my money so I don't care if they missed out on a couple hundred thousand bucks, but if the critics didn't find that it was no more watchable than a Mortal Kombat sequel it would have hit the billion mark.
I mean, I know it was divisive but that's just hating to have it comparable to that.

Transformers and Pirates don't seem to have a problem with getting over $1B with scathing reviews.

I think critics can sway some people but I think WOM is more of a deterrent.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Where is this Mortal Kombat thing coming from?

 

[Ghost_Rider]

I'm realizing WB/DC doing a cinematic universe may have been a poor move. They just don't have the right internal setup at WB to pull it off.

Instead, they should have just done a bunch of standalone DC franchises that reflect the true vision of the directors.

And eventually do a Justice League film that crosses over all these parallel Earths to unite the heroes together.

That way Nolan's Batman would remain as THE Batman. The Nolan films (especially TDK) will be an impossible echelon for the DCEU to top.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Transformers and Pirates don't seem to have a problem with getting over $1B with scathing reviews.

I think critics can sway some people but I think WOM is more of a deterrent.

Transformers and Pirates have been declining rapidly domestically, probably due to their quality. They have been getting saved because of the foreign market. This presents a problem for DC, as they rely far more on the domestic box office.

For example, the last POTC movie did 76.9% of its gross overseas and the last Transformers movie did 77.8%. Both were the lowest grossing domestically in their respective franchises by a wide margin. By comparison BvS did 62.2% overseas, and both Man of Steel and Suicide Squad did 56.4%.

This is a big problem because the domestic box office is far less likely to stay steady from one film to the next, and unlike POTC and Transformers the overseas box office isn't there to bail them out if the domestic BO does drop.

 

[Luke234]

Transformers and Pirates don't seem to have a problem with getting over $1B with scathing reviews.

I think critics can sway some people but I think WOM is more of a deterrent.

Well, another big factor is the dark tone ( which is one of the reasons many don't like it which is totally cool) . I really loved it but I wouldn't take a little kid to it . I don't personally think the ending is maybe a little too much for young eyes.
Regardless of what the critics said those Pirate movies sell tickets. That's the same time I see in Marvel flicks. It's obviously successful and I see they also get great reviews for almost all of them. It's just I see more of a dramatic story with MOS and BVS. I don't agree with the writing / storytelling criticisms but I understand how people did t get the depiction they wanted. I'm not a comic book guy so I just enjoyed the stories.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

It's interesting because look at BVS vs SS. They shared many big criticisms like bad editing, bad script, bad pacing, etc.

But boxoffice wise SS had better holds, and is considered a box office success despite its reviews and not opening in China.

The major difference is SS had moments of levity, moments of humor, and overall did not take itself as serious as either BVS or even MOS.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Suicide Squad was more of a crowd pleaser than BvS, allowing it better staying power. And the expectations weren't as high, so the box office was a success while BvS had been so incredibly disappointing.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think the big difference is that despite all the problems with SS, people seemed to like the main characters, particularly Harley Quinn and Deadshot.

Meanwhile, there was a ton of criticism of how Batman and especially Superman were portrayed.

Having characters people care about helps cover up a lot of other problems.

 

[2kt09]

It's interesting because look at BVS vs SS. They shared many big criticisms like bad editing, bad script, bad pacing, etc.

Right, but SS is where those criticisms really stuck given the time it took to get the script done and who they tasked to edit the film.

But boxoffice wise SS had better holds, and is considered a box office success despite its reviews and not opening in China.

The budget was much much lower, whilst it was promoting music that got played on air. Nothing new here.

The major difference is SS had moments of levity, moments of humor, and overall did not take itself as serious as either BVS or even MOS.

There is such a small difference in rating between the two, yet feels like a lot of hypesters are much more passive with Suicide Squad.
I interpret that as how much people actually care.