what innovative changes can you do to reinvegorate the spiderman mythos?

The Question said:
I really liked the totem stuff. I don't get the distain for it.

It's not so much the Totem as much as it's the way it's told and what it lead to.

Plus Spidey's origin was just fine the way it is, why does it have to go deeper than that? Now it takes away the commoness/randomness of Peter as Spider-man, he's no longer a everyday kid who happened upon his powers now he's some avatar.

It takes away the 'You could've been Spidey, had you been at that science exhibit.' thing about spidey.
 
Darthphere said:
Its not part and shouldnt be part of his origin. Peter is just some kid wo was at the wrong place at the wrong time who had to deal with these "gifts" by adding the mystical part, it kind of cheapens the everyman portion of Peter Parker's origin as Spider-Man.

Agree.

:up:
 
deemar325 said:
It's not so much the Totem as much as it's the way it's told and what it lead to.



Plus Spidey's origin was just fine the way it is, why does it have to go deeper than that? Now it takes away the commoness/randomness of Peter as Spider-man, he's no longer a everyday kid who happened upon his powers now he's some avatar.



It takes away the 'You could've been Spidey, had you been at that science exhibit.' thing about spidey.

Thing is, I never saw that as apart of his apeal. And the reason JMS dug deeper, from what I understand, is because he wanted to take Spidey in a new direction. It gets to a point where you have to take the character in a new direction to keep with the good stories.

Darthphere said:
Its not part and shouldnt be part of his origin. Peter is just some kid wo was at the wrong place at the wrong time who had to deal with these "gifts" by adding the mystical part, it kind of cheapens the everyman portion of Peter Parker's origin as Spider-Man.


How so? The reason he was chosen is because he was an everyman. He knew what it was like to be at the bottom of the barrel, so he'd assuredly always fight his way to the top. Besides, like I said, I wasn't aware that that was supposed to be apart of his apeal.
 
The Question said:
How so? The reason he was chosen is because he was an everyman. He knew what it was like to be at the bottom of the barrel, so he'd assuredly always fight his way to the top.


I dont know what else to say man. Spider-Man has always been a down to earth hero, to add this part that he has some higher calling other than being what he is just seems contrived to me. The fact that this whole part of his origin came out of thin air doesnt help the fact either. Spider-Man has always been street level, the only time he wasnt was the Captain Universe thing, but that wasnt messing with his origin.
 
The Question said:
Thing is, I never saw that as apart of his apeal. And the reason JMS dug deeper, from what I understand, is because he wanted to take Spidey in a new direction. It gets to a point where you have to take the character in a new direction to keep with the good stories.


You have to remember part of his new direction was having Gwen Stacy have pity sex with Norman Osborn and The Other. Quite frankly ill take everyman Spider-Man than New direction JMS Spider-Man.
 
Darthphere said:
I dont know what else to say man. Spider-Man has always been a down to earth hero, to add this part that he has some higher calling other than being what he is just seems contrived to me. The fact that this whole part of his origin came out of thin air doesnt help the fact either. Spider-Man has always been street level, the only time he wasnt was the Captain Universe thing, but that wasnt messing with his origin.


Yeah, he is street level. But, sometimes a writer feels that he has to take the character in a new direction, or otherwise he'll just be rehashing old stories. Putting Spider-Man in a new setting (magic and the like) didn't hurt anything for me. Besides, it's not like it was hist first fore into the worlds of the strange and unusual. I have two (rather good) Spider-Man graphic novels, one where he's on a vacation in Scotland and is confronted by ghosts, and the other where he is zapped into a mystical dimension by some weird little gitl. Both were quite good.

Darthphere said:
You have to remember part of his new direction was having Gwen Stacy have pity sex with Norman Osborn and The Other. Quite frankly ill take everyman Spider-Man than New direction JMS Spider-Man.

I was refering to the Totem stuff, not Sins Past. Sins Past was kind of ****ed up.
 
The Question said:
Yeah, he is street level. But, sometimes a writer feels that he has to take the character in a new direction, or otherwise he'll just be rehashing old stories. Putting Spider-Man in a new setting (magic and the like) didn't hurt anything for me. Besides, it's not like it was hist first fore into the worlds of the strange and unusual. I have two (rather good) Spider-Man graphic novels, one where he's on a vacation in Scotland and is confronted by ghosts, and the other where he is zapped into a mystical dimension by some weird little gitl. Both were quite good.


And out of continuity. Small stories like that dont bother me though. Messing with an origin does. What youre pretty much is saying is JMS did this for the sake of change. It really doesnt add anything to the character and IMO actually takes away from him. Im down for changes, im not impervious to change. But changing something for the sake of being different, edgy, whatever bothers me. And thats what I feel JMS did.
 
Zoken said:
Well I mentioned under the "OYL" thread that Peter, not Spider-Man but Peter, be invited/abducted by a "Think-Tank" headed by Doc Ock, the Mad Thinker, Dr. Doom, and Mr. Sinister. they would tell him that his test show the potenial for true genius intellect, and that they wish him to join them in creating a world without "Moronic, judgmental, false Champion" (They want to get rid of super-heroes). Peter prepares to say yes, just to spy on them, but then Dr. Doom instructs Otto to tell Peter the extremely interesting information they liberated from Osborne Industries. a memo regarding "Subject M.G.P" saying that "She is currently three years old and reading on a third grade level. the X-Gene has been detected, and they are proceeding with Mr. Osborne's instructions." Peter quickly realizes that "M.G.P." could very well be "May Gwendolyn Parker". Peter is given shown the possiblity that his daughter may be alive.

This generates more and more problems as Peter can't risk telling any of the Avengers about this, or even MJ, as These people mention that they have been watching him for some time. They don't yet realize he's Spider-Man, though Doom is dropping frightening hints that he may know. They also talk about other members such as Wilbur Day and Herman Shultz, but they are mentioned to be "Lower eschelon members." Otto seems to wish Peter to be there as an ally and a confidant. Even Otto realizes that he is in a room with snakes. He wants one person to trust.

I'm not feeling it Z.
 
Darthphere said:
And out of continuity.

Are you sure about that?

Darthphere said:
Small stories like that dont bother me though. Messing with an origin does. What youre pretty much is saying is JMS did this for the sake of change. It really doesnt add anything to the character and IMO actually takes away from him. Im down for changes, im not impervious to change. But changing something for the sake of being different, edgy, whatever bothers me. And thats what I feel JMS did.

I didn't say he did it for the sake of being different and edgy. I think it was more along the lines of, he wanted to tell the story with the totem stuff because he thought it was a good story. And it didn't fundamentally change the character. It just said that there was something he didn't know about. And really, it did make for a pretty sweet read.
 
Darthphere said:
And out of continuity. Small stories like that dont bother me though. Messing with an origin does. What youre pretty much is saying is JMS did this for the sake of change. It really doesnt add anything to the character and IMO actually takes away from him. Im down for changes, im not impervious to change. But changing something for the sake of being different, edgy, whatever bothers me. And thats what I feel JMS did.

Agree, at to the fact JMS seems to take pleasure in rubbing it in the fans faces, that he can get away with tarnishing Spidey.

Sins Past was totally uncalled for, it really spat on the legacy of Gwen and Stan Lee as a writer creator of Spidey and Gwen.
 
i truelly dont feel JMS changing his origins added anything to the mythos at all. it's just contrived writing. and deemar was right it really cheapened the whole appeal of peter recieving these random powers, and question, how could you not know it was part of his appeal, bad place the animated series focused on that a few times and stan has pointed it out.
 
GoldenAgeHero said:
and question, how could you not know it was part of his appeal, bad place the animated series focused on that a few times and stan has pointed it out.


I just never saw it. And didn't the animated series have this whole deal about how Spidey was "destined for great things"?
 
GoldenAgeHero said:
i truelly dont feel JMS changing his origins added anything to the mythos at all. it's just contrived writing. and deemar was right it really cheapened the whole appeal of peter recieving these random powers, and question, how could you not know it was part of his appeal, bad place the animated series focused on that a few times and stan has pointed it out.

:up: :)

Homey you black in the fold again.
 
The Question said:
I just never saw it. And didn't the animated series have this whole deal about how Spidey was "destined for great things"?


That was for Secret Wars if I recall correctly, it really didnt revolve around that the whole series.
 
They said it in other stuff besides the Secret Wars aswell.
 
The Question said:
They said it in other stuff besides the Secret Wars aswell.


No I mean, Madame Web was "training" him for Secret Wars. So, yeah it wasnt exclusive just to the Secret Wars arc.
 
I don't think she was just training him for Secret Wars, although that was an aspect.
 
The Question said:
I just never saw it. And didn't the animated series have this whole deal about how Spidey was "destined for great things"?

I ignore the animated series.

Either way Peter is us as a superhero, that's the whole point Stan was trying to make. The unlikely hero the guy who happened upon fate and now must deal with responsibility of using his powers for self gain or helping others. What Spidey is not is Green Lantern he's not a born hero, he's not Batman a self made hero, He's not Superman a Messiah figure, he's not BlackPanther a man born into his role.

Peter is 'Question/your real name' a guy every day joe/geek/loser/shmuck who was at the wrong place at the right/wrong time.

It's easily could have been Flash Thompson who got bitten and not Peter and that's the whole point.

Peter is the realization of the 'reader' being the hero.
 
The Question said:
I don't think she was just training him for Secret Wars, although that was an aspect.


Im pretty sure that was the whole point of Madame Web, to make him a leader to fight in Secret Wars.
 
what was she training him for tho? i dont remember the show in great detail...i think he was preparing for the clone saga or something.
 
GoldenAgeHero said:
what was she training him for tho? i dont remember the show in great detail...i think he was preparing for the clone saga or something.


Im pretty sure Secret Wars ended and that transpoerted him into the Clone Saga some how. I havent seen the show in forever.
 
deemar325 said:
I ignore the animated series.

Either way Peter is us as a superhero, that's the whole point Stan was trying to make. The unlikely hero the guy who happened upon fate and now must deal with responsibility of using his powers for self gain or helping others. What Spidey is not is Green Lantern he's not a born hero, he's not Batman a self made hero, He's not Superman a Messiah figure, he's not BlackPanther a man born into his role.

Peter is 'Question/your real name' a guy every day joe/geek/loser/shmuck who was at the wrong place at the right/wrong time.

It's easily could have been Flash Thompson who got bitten and not Peter and that's the whole point.

Peter is the realization of the 'reader' being the hero.


I don't see how the totem aspect makes him any less "us as a superhero". He's still an average guy who got powers. It's just, now we know why he got the powers. To quote Dogma:

"Knowing what you now know doesn't mean you're not who you were. You are Bethany Sloan. No one can take that away from you. Not even God. All this means is a redefinition of that identity. The incorperation of this new data into who you are. Be who you've always been. Just, be this aswell. Ftom time to time."
 

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