what innovative changes can you do to reinvegorate the spiderman mythos?

[GoldenAgeHero]

I don't see how the totem aspect makes him any less "us as a superhero". He's still an average guy who got powers. It's just, now we know why he got the powers. To very loosely paraphrase Dogma:

"Simply incorperate this new data into who you are. Be who you've always been. Just, also be this.....from time to time."

we already knew why he got his powers, it was an act of randomness not destiny. we didnt need know totem poles to tell tell how he got and why when it was already explained. dont fix it if it's not broken. and like i said the whole totem aspect adds nothing to his character, it was uncalled for.

 

[Darthphere]

I don't see how the totem aspect makes him any less "us as a superhero". He's still an average guy who got powers. It's just, now we know why he got the powers. To very loosely paraphrase Dogma:

"Simply incorperate this new data into who you are. Be who you've always been. Just, also be this.....from time to time."

Theres the thing, you just said it. There shouldnt be a reason why he got those powers.

 

[The Question]

we already knew why he got his powers, it was an act of randomness not destiny. we didnt need know totem poles to tell tell how he got and why when it was already explained. dont fix it if it's not broken. and like i said the whole totem aspect adds nothing to his character, it was uncalled for.

That's the how. Not the why.

Theres the thing, you just said it. There shouldnt be a reason why he got those powers.

Why not? What does that hurt? What does that take away? How does that fundamentally change who Spider-Man is?

 

[Darthphere]

That's the how. Not the why.



Why not? What does that hurt? What does that take away? How does that fundamentally change who Spider-Man is?

I think weve explained in detail already, the randomness of the event. The fact that nerdy Peter Parker was bitten and not someone else. I ask you. Why does there have to be a reason he was bitten?

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

and tell me what did this huge of event the other lead too? absolutely no where, an event that didnt even need the hype nor live up to it. jms a complete hack. his new abilities are as ******ed as jms himself. oh wow he can stick things to his back...uhh yeah he's been doing that for sometime now, oh wait he can feel vibrations thru his weebing...uhh im pretty sure we didnt need an 11 part issue to tell us that....well he can see in the dark...umm im sure his spidersenses couldve guided him... well he has stingers...thats a stupid as the concept for X-23... what i found more amazing that people actually ate this garbage up.

 

[deemar325]

I don't see how the totem aspect makes him any less "us as a superhero". He's still an average guy who got powers. It's just, now we know why he got the powers. To very loosely paraphrase Dogma:

"Simply incorperate this new data into who you are. Be who you've always been. Just, also be this.....from time to time."

I hear ya Q! I'm still convinced that JMS totally took what was special about Spidey and destroyed it.

I'm saying what's magical or destined or supernatural about a person who happens to trip and fall on the ground and finds $100 bucks?

or

A person who saves a kid from being ran over by a car?

They all just happened to be at the right place, nothing more. Peter happened on super powers instead of $20 bucks on the street.

 

[The Question]

I think weve explained in detail already, the randomness of the event. The fact that nerdy Peter Parker was bitten and not someone else. I ask you. Why does there have to be a reason he was bitten?

There doesn't. But why does it have to be random. It doesn't take away from the fact that he's an everyman.

I hear ya Q! I'm still convinced that JMS totally took what was special about Spidey and destroyed it.

I'm saying what's magical or destined or supernatural about a person who happens to trip and fall on the ground and finds $100 bucks?

or

A person who saves a kid from being ran over by a car?

They all just happened to be at the right place, nothing more. Peter happened on super powers instead of $20 bucks on the street.

I see what you're saying. I just don't see why the randomness is such a huge factor. It never even crosed my mind until right now.

 

[Zoken]

it kinda does take away from the idea that he's an everyman. If he was destined, he was chosen. he was singled out. If it was random, it could have happened to anyone. remember, one of the biggest appeals of Spidey was that he could have been almost anyone under the mask, you or me, or anyone. to say that Peter Parker was chosen... kinda takes away from that feeling.

 

[The Question]

it kinda does take away from the idea that he's an everyman. If he was destined, he was chosen. he was singled out. If it was random, it could have happened to anyone. remember, one of the biggest appeals of Spidey was that he could have been almost anyone under the mask, you or me, or anyone. to say that Peter Parker was chosen... kinda takes away from that feeling.

The apeal is that he's an average guy with average problems who also has powers. And you forget, the reason he was chosen was because he was an everyman. Because he was a nerd who was pushed around.

 

[Anubis]

Maybe they could say that he wasn't really the chosen one. But somebody else who then gets the Spider powers with all the crap Spideys got from the Other and he becomes the new Scarlet Spider.

 

[deemar325]

There doesn't. But why does it have to be random. It doesn't take away from the fact that he's an everyman.



I see what you're saying. I just don't see why the randomness is such a huge factor. It never even crosed my mind until right now.

Well it's been crossing everyone elses mind for the last 40 years.

Spidey is us.

When you get past the superpowers he is the fanboy/son/father/nurse/bartender/soldier/dog-walker/snobby yuppie eating a bagel/black kid on the street corner/jewish kid studying for his bahmitzfa/40 yr old guy who just lost his job of 20yrs.

Peter is the random shmoe who won the lottery, the dork who got the balls to ask the hot chick out, the new father who got twins instead of one kid.

So when you add a freaking Totem/Spider God/pre-destined avatar stuff you put him in a catergory seperated from you, me and dumbass who lit his own fart on fire.

You get it?

 

[The Question]

Well it's been crossing everyone elses mind for the last 40 years.

Spidey is us.

When you get past the superpowers he is the fanboy/son/father/nurse/bartender/soldier/dog-walker/snobby yuppie eating a bagel/black kid on the street corner/jewish kid studying for his bahmitzfa/40 yr old guy who just lost his job of 20yrs.

Peter is the random shmoe who won the lottery, the dork who got the balls to ask the hot chick out, the new father who got twins instead of one kid.

So when you add a freaking Totem/Spider God/pre-destined avatar stuff you put him in a catergory seperated from you, me and dumbass who lit his own fart on fire.

You get it?

Yeah. But I don't agree with it. I don't see how it takes away from his everyman status at all. He's still an everyman. He still deals with the crap everyone does. Under that mask, he still could be anybody to the people of New York. The randomness was never a factor for me. The fact that he's just a guy dealing with regular **** is.

 

[deemar325]

I guess the best way to explain it is Jesus gets bitten by a radioactive God and yeah he was a carpenter and all but he's so much better than you now and you never had a chance in hell to be him.

Why cause even though Jesus was/seemed like a regular guy, he was always going to be 'God-man!'

 

[The Question]

But, Spider-Man was never "so much better" than everyone else. He was chosen, but because he was an average guy. Because he dealt with the **** that was high school and every day life. And really, who cares if you couldn't be him. The fact that he goes through the same **** that everyone else does, that's what made the character special in the first place.

 

[Zoken]

Um... two things Deemar

1: WTF?! I'm sorry but I think you should put down the crack pipe and step away...

2: It just hit me, this is one of the few times you didn't like my idea. pain... deep pain and suff.. okay I"m over it.

 

[deemar325]

Um... two things Deemar

1: WTF?! I'm sorry but I think you should put down the crack pipe and step away...

LOL!!

2: It just hit me, this is one of the few times you didn't like my idea. pain... deep pain and suff.. okay I"m over it.

I usually love your stuff man, can't knock'em all outta the ball park Z.

 

[Furthermore]

Give him new ugly iron man armor. Wait...

 

[Grim Goblin]

The Question, I respect you a lot and this isn't an attack on you but the thing is, until JMS came along, Peter was an everyman. Emphasis on the "every" part. Everyone has accidents for no reason at all. Not everyone gets chosen for something special. That's why he's not an everyman anymore.

Yes, he goes through the regular hassle of everyday life, but he's not like others anymore. He was chosen for something bigger. And it takes away from his character because it used to be his choice, his redemption for failing to stop the burglar. Now, it doesn't seem like it was ever his choice to make anyway.

 

[The Question]

Now, nothing from the Totem stuff said it wasn't his choice to make. Hell, I don't recall anything from the totem stuff saying that he was meant to become a hero. I'm fairly certain that they did say he was chosen because he was an everyman. Because he dealt with the **** of everyday life. So, he would never give up if given the chance to fight. Has nothing to do with being a hero.

 

[Harlekin]

Okay, Q, would you mind explaining what you think Spidey's appeal is and was?

The way I and pretty much everyone else you're discussing with see it:
- Your everyday nerd who has to deal with both his superhero and normal life.
- He could be anyone. You or me or the guy on the street corner could've been at that accident. Could've become Spider-Man. Superman was a baby rocketed to Earth. We can't be that, but we can be Spider-Man.

 

[gildea]

though i don't think it goes AGAINST 50 years of continuity i do think it's against the very ethos of the character.

 

[The Question]

Okay, Q, would you mind explaining what you think Spidey's appeal is and was?

The way I and pretty much everyone else you're discussing with see it:
- Your everyday nerd who has to deal with both his superhero and normal life.
- He could be anyone. You or me or the guy on the street corner could've been at that accident. Could've become Spider-Man. Superman was a baby rocketed to Earth. We can't be that, but we can be Spider-Man.

Well......

- Your everyday nerd who has to deal with both his superhero and normal life.

That was it for me. The randomness never even crossed my mind.

 

[Harlekin]

That was it for me. The randomness never even crossed my mind.

Still makes it a valid point.

 

[The Question]

I suppose.

 

[Pksoze]

The problem with the totem stuff imo was that it really goes against what Ditko & Lee wanted to accomplish. Ditko...being an objectivist is probably not happy with how his characters have been mangled.

But the most famous character he helped create was Spidey & the guy went from a science (even if its comics pseudo science) to supernatural based entity. Having read up on Ditko & how integral he was to Spidey, I have to believe he wouldn't be pleased.

I think the totem concept was best when it was first introduced as something ambigous & not concrete.