Homecoming What should they do with the Spidey franchise?

[Daltonio]

Continue with TASM universe definitely.

 

[hippie_hunter]

The second part of your post is very interesting, I knew there were rumors of Sony trying to sell off its film division obviously, but this is the first I'm hearing of separating the film division and then having an IPO.

There has been pressure for Sony to either sell or spin-off its entertainment division for quite some time.

Would Disney even want to touch Sony outside of Spidey though?

My thoughts exactly.

They have their own studios and distribution companies and outside of Spidey and shared 007 rights, Sony has no other franchises to their own,

Men in Black, Ghostbusters, the Smurfs, Hotel Transylvania, the Robert Langdon series, Jump Street, etc. While Sony's attempts at blockbusters has been rather pathetic, they have had some big successes with smaller films like Captain Philips, American Hustle, the Social Network, Zero Dark Thirty, Moneyball, etc.

their studio is near bankrupt,

Their studio is actually profitable.

and their executive office is a mess right now (Granted, a lot of this is based on Nikki Finke's writings).

How Amy Pascal and Michael Lynton have jobs at this point I just don't get.

Plus, with a 20% IPO the wouldn't have anywhere near a controlling interest in the studio even if they bought all of it.

It's the other way around, Sony Corp would own 80% of Sony Entertainment while 20% of the company would have been sold to the public.

The first part of your post is the sad part of all this. Disney doesn't need to do anything really at all. They will continue to make Spidey toys and cartoons and they'll continue to sell regardless of how bad the movies are failing, so Disney is making their money without any risk. Sony is the one who needs the handout, because Spidey isn't making them anymore money. Sure it made them money in the past, but Hollywood is the epitome of 'What have you done lately' business and lately Spidey hasn't done squat for Sony.

Spider-Man would be making money if they kept the budget under control or if they made an actually good Spider-Man movie.

EDIT Just to touch on a few more points, Dan Loeb was pretty much skewered by George Clooney in public, which forced him to back off is stance last year. Since then, he's been pretty quiet, although he was right, and Monuments Men tanked, so Clooney looks like even more of a *****e-nozzle than usual.

Clooney didn't make Loeb stand down, Kaz Hirai and the entirely almost Japanese Sony Board of Directors made him step down. If anything the leadership of Sony Pictures will change, won't be surprised to see Sony get people like Jeff Robinov, Tom Rothman, or Michael De Luca to replace Pascal and Lynton.

 

[Spider-Ranger]

What shall we do with the Spidey franchise?
What shall we do with the Spidey franchise?
What shall we do with the Spidey franchise in two thousand eighteen?
Reboot or sell the rights back
Reboot or sell the rights back
Reboot or sell the rights back in two thousand eighteen



You know that song! Sing along!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwIF3vbP52s

 

[HAMMER]

Men in Black, Ghostbusters, the Smurfs, Hotel Transylvania, the Robert Langdon series, Jump Street, etc. While Sony's attempts at blockbusters has been rather pathetic, they have had some big successes with smaller films like Captain Philips, American Hustle, the Social Network, Zero Dark Thirty, Moneyball, etc.

Outside of Ghostbusters and maybe the MiB stuff, I don't think any of those franchises will ever really be anything. We might get another 21 Jump Street or Hotel T, but its nothing Disney would look twice at.

It's the other way around, Sony Corp would own 80% of Sony Entertainment while 20% of the company would have been sold to the public.

That's what I meant, Disney would have no reason to own only 20% of Sony Pictures.

Clooney didn't make Loeb stand down, Kaz Hirai and the entirely almost Japanese Sony Board of Directors made him step down. If anything the leadership of Sony Pictures will change, won't be surprised to see Sony get people like Jeff Robinov, Tom Rothman, or Michael De Luca to replace Pascal and Lynton.

I'm really surprised nothing has come in terms of change yet. Yes the studio has had some hits of late, but they've had a lot of huge bombs recently too, like After Earth. Amazing Spider-Man 2 was such a mess, and I think its safe to say that under its current leadership, Sony doesn't really know what to do to turn the sinking ship around.

 

[Six]

Reboot in the MCU. I want the Spider Man rights back with Marvel but for different reasons than most. Spideys rogue gallery is the second best in rogue gallery ever. A bunch of his villains are Daredevil villains that Marvel probably can't use. G

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

More importantly they (Marvel) wouldn't screw his villians up.

 

[JOE]

More importantly they (Marvel) wouldn't screw his villians up.

If there's one thing Spider-Man (Webbiverse) has been lacking, it's a great villain. On the other hand, the MCU hasn't exactly had the greatest lineup either... Loki, The Winter Soldier... I can't really think of any other strong MCU villains.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

If there's one thing Spider-Man (Webbiverse) has been lacking, it's a great villain. On the other hand, the MCU hasn't exactly had the greatest lineup either... Loki, The Winter Soldier... I can't really think of any other strong MCU villains.

Great is pretty subjective but at least their villains have received some good development and are actually interesting characters. Maybe that's subjective too, but that's how I see it.

 

[JOE]

Great is pretty subjective but at least their villains have received some good development and are actually interesting characters. Maybe that's subjective too, but that's how I see it.

Consistent criticism with the first film falls heavily into the lack of development as far as Dr. Connors goes. He wasn't interesting, IMO. They didn't show his wife, Billy or any other important background info. It was Saturday morning cartoony how he wanted to turn the world into Lizards, and convenient that there just happened to be a device at Oscorp already made which allows him to do so.

As far as TASM 2, too many points to list as far as the villains go. Rhino was the only one I enjoyed and he was only in it for 2 minutes. Yes, it was hammy, but it was supposed to be.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Honestly 1b would be a pretty damn good deal for Spider-Man.

Spider-Man is THE Marvel character, without him the MCU will never reach its potential.

Spidey>Wolverine>all other Marvel heroes combined

 

[JOE]

Honestly 1b would be a pretty damn good deal for Spider-Man.

Spider-Man is THE Marvel character, without him the MCU will never reach its potential.

Spidey>Wolverine>all other Marvel heroes combined

I don't think Sony would give him up for 1B, they're going to throw out some huge overpriced number and hope for the best and hope that Disney is desperate for Spidey, which they certainly are not. They took a franchise nobody knew existed 4 years ago and made it their 3rd biggest movie yet. The MCU turns everything they touch into gold. Sony has to be careful, turning down whatever Disney potentially might offer might come back to haunt them if they choose to do so. How many other companies are going to come in with 1B + and buy out your declining franchise.

 

[Hurm...]

I don't think Spidey's movie property returning to Marvel is the ONLY way we can get a solid film franchise, but it's probably the most promising path. But what would Sony have left? "Smurfs"? Or another "RoboCop" remake? They don't have too many properties that promise a substantial profit. Yes, the TASM series' numbers were disappointing in many ways, but Sony still made some money out of popping out another Spidey film. Even Fox's X-Men universe, with a diverse assortment of characters and reliance on ensembles, provides greater business potential through prequels, sequels, etc. Universe-building, transmedia storytelling is the future - clearly shown by WB and Marvel's superhero film slate, the Harry Potter films delving into prequels, Fox's X-Men prequel film slate and Universal's interest in creating a classic movie "monster" universe. But Sony is only left with one juicy, but isolated property...Spider-Man. So, they're milking it with these terrible prequel ideas and hoping one of them sticks with audiences.

While they do this and potentially ruin the property's critical reception with each new installment, the value of "Spider-Man," as a property, becomes less and less valuable. Should Sony sell the property now, narrow their franchise options and sell it to Disney for a good price? Or should Sony release more sequels and low-in-demand prequels, make a fair amount of money from them but possibly ruin the franchise's credibility with mediocre-poor films?

I think these are the primary issues that Sony is facing right now, and they're weighing their options.

What do I think they'll do?

They'll release another sequel or a prequel and see what happens from there. If the film doesn't bring anything special to the table and it under performs, they'll be more serious about selling the property. I also think they should drop Webb and his crew. It's not working, and they need to go back to the drawing board. They are being left behind by these bigger companies, WB and Disney, who have the money to try novel, innovative ideas, but Sony doesn't. Sony is just riding on WB and Disney's models, in fear of losing money or whatever, and hope that audiences show interest in their product. It's not really working that well.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Continue with TASM universe definitely.

I don't think Spidey's movie property returning to Marvel is the ONLY way we can get a solid film franchise

Of course not. To say otherwise would be silly.

If there's one thing Spider-Man (Webbiverse) has been lacking, it's a great villain. On the other hand, the MCU hasn't exactly had the greatest lineup either... Loki, The Winter Soldier... I can't really think of any other strong MCU villains.

Agreed. Imo Lizard was the best so far, the only MCU one to beat him for me is Loki in the first Thor and maybe Ronan

Spidey>Wolverine>all other Marvel heroes combined

Yep.

 

[spider-neil]

Worth noting that the movie that proceeded X-Men First Class (IMHO the best X-Men ever made) was X-Men 3 and Wolverine Origins. To say Spider-Man can't claw his way back from the brink is just wrong. You just need the right material and right people behind the camera. Get Matthew Vaughn to direct the next Spider-Man movie and Jane Goldman to write it.

 

[HanShotFirst]

Ya know I didn't give much thought to this but those Civil War rumors changed everything. I so desperately want Spider-man to be part of it I voted for Reboot and join MCU. Also my reasons why reboot is actually needed at this point:
- 'Special spider blood' kinda kills that everyman aspect of Spider-man. You shouldn't need some super special dna to get spider powers. No matter who you are, if you're bitten by radio-active/genetically modified spider, you get spider powers. Period.
- "Did you try magnetizing it"? Ugh possibly the worst part of all Spider-man movies(even worse than Andrew's TASM2 hair and Tobey's crying face). Never ever insult Peter's intelligence.
- Every supervillain comes from Oscorp. I don't have to explain this. Just nope.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Worth noting that the movie that proceeded X-Men First Class (IMHO the best X-Men ever made) was X-Men 3 and Wolverine Origins. To say Spider-Man can't claw his way back from the brink is just wrong. You just need the right material and right people behind the camera. Get Matthew Vaughn to direct the next Spider-Man movie and Jane Goldman to write it.

You wanna know the difference between First Class and Sinister Six/TASM3?

First Class is a prequel with a fresh new start. Sinister Six/TASM3 is another chapter in a series with an average first film and below average second film.

 

[Frodo]

Ya know I didn't give much thought to this but those Civil War rumors changed everything. I so desperately want Spider-man to be part of it I voted for Reboot and join MCU. Also my reasons why reboot is actually needed at this point:
- 'Special spider blood' kinda kills that everyman aspect of Spider-man. You shouldn't need some super special dna to get spider powers. No matter who you are, if you're bitten by radio-active/genetically modified spider, you get spider powers. Period.
- "Did you try magnetizing it"? Ugh possibly the worst part of all Spider-man movies(even worse than Andrew's TASM2 hair and Tobey's crying face). Never ever insult Peter's intelligence.
- Every supervillain comes from Oscorp. I don't have to explain this. Just nope.

That's pretty much where I am as well. I know there are alot of fans who were furious at the idea of another reboot but the main rationale for keeping the series seemed to be based on liking Garfield and IMO that's just not a strong enough reason to keep a weak series going. There are so many more possibilities and opportunities from a reboot/MCU incorporation than their are going on with the Webbiverse for the sake of liking Andrew Garfield's performance.

I've really yet to see any convincing arguments for continuing the current course even with all the fan fury over the possibility of rebooting. Now of course their are compromises such as going the Incredible Hulk route, The Bond recast route, or just starting fresh for 3 onward , but whatever the case, you need to do something new with the next Spiderman adventure. And of course, you've got to have a story to tell.

With DC and Marvel just coming up with dynamic projects and event films over the rest of the decade, Sony shouldn't be in the position where it's bogged down in a weak franchise with weak spin offs.

 

[spider-neil]

There is a saying, 'careful what you wish for, you may get it'.
Suppose Spider-Man 'did' appear in Marvel Civil War and they story line plays out exactly how it does in the comics. Spider-Man is unmasked and the whole world learns his identity. Good luck writing Spider-Man after dropping 'that' bombshell.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

There is a saying, 'careful what you wish for, you may get it'.
Suppose Spider-Man 'did' appear in Marvel Civil War and they story line plays out exactly how it does in the comics. Spider-Man is unmasked and the whole world learns his identity. Good luck writing Spider-Man after dropping 'that' bombshell.

Well, skipping all that Mephisto nastiness, the "in universe" method of restoring Spidey's ID was a combined effort of Tony Stark, Dr. Strange, & Reed Richards. Taking Richards out of the equation, we already have Tony and Dr. Strange has been announced, so there is that out if they decide to go that route...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Ya know I didn't give much thought to this but those Civil War rumors changed everything. I so desperately want Spider-man to be part of it I voted for Reboot and join MCU. Also my reasons why reboot is actually needed at this point:
- 'Special spider blood' kinda kills that everyman aspect of Spider-man. You shouldn't need some super special dna to get spider powers. No matter who you are, if you're bitten by radio-active/genetically modified spider, you get spider powers. Period.
- "Did you try magnetizing it"? Ugh possibly the worst part of all Spider-man movies(even worse than Andrew's TASM2 hair and Tobey's crying face). Never ever insult Peter's intelligence.
- Every supervillain comes from Oscorp. I don't have to explain this. Just nope.

Yes, the Webbverse, just isn't working. Besides those items you mentioned, I think the movies messed up Uncle Ben and Aunt May with all the emphasis on the parents. It's almost like they killed Uncle Ben to make May a single parent. And Pete still never caught Ben's killer. They messed up Doc Conners. They messed up Electro. They messed up the Osborns and the Goblin. They messed up Gwen's death. The series has just too much baggage.

Reboot it! Either have Sony return the rights to Marvel/Disney or work out some compromise deal with Sony that gives the creative handling to Marvel Studios.

 

[BatsDC]

I doubt his identity would be revealed... Civil War is almost certainly not going to be about identities

 

[spider-neil]

I doubt his identity would be revealed... Civil War is almost certainly not going to be about identities

So it will be about registration? What is the point of that if the identity isn't revealed? The whole point of Civil War was transparency for the general public and authorities. Civil War as an event was so so, one of the main take away from that crossover was the Spider-Man reveal. That is why they put him in the classic red and blues.
If Spider-Man were in the cinematic Civil War and DIDN'T reveal his identity that would be a massive cop out. That would be like putting him in the cinematic Secret Wars and not putting him in the black suit.

 

[Lilbaz]

So it will be about registration? What is the point of that if the identity isn't revealed? The whole point of Civil War was transparency for the general public and authorities. Civil War as an event was so so, one of the main take away from that crossover was the Spider-Man reveal. That is why they put him in the classic red and blues.
If Spider-Man were in the cinematic Civil War and DIDN'T reveal his identity that would be a massive cop out. That would be like putting him in the cinematic Secret Wars and not putting him in the black suit.

It might just be that the team splits. One lot working with the government. The other a more rogue group that the government outlaw. Cap 3 could just be about Cap leading the new team. That has it's own story/antagonist. I know civil war has a lot of meaning to comic readers. But for the rest, it means nothing.

We'll see what happens.

 

[spider-neil]

Think the critical success of Sinister Six will ultimately decide whether Spider-Man joins the Avengers. By that I mean if Sinister Six gets rave reviews then Sony can press on with ASM 3 and take their chances this generates an upturn in fortune like First Class for the X-men. But if Sinester Six flops critically and commercially then they need to go begging to Marvel because they will need the Avengers to restore some of Spider-Man's lustre.

 

[Mr.M]

Think the critical success of Sinister Six will ultimately decide whether Spider-Man joins the Avengers. By that I mean if Sinister Six gets rave reviews then Sony can press on with ASM 3 and take their chances this generates an upturn in fortune like First Class for the X-men. But if Sinester Six flops critically and commercially then they need to go begging to Marvel because they will need the Avengers to restore some of Spider-Man's lustre.

How on Earth do you draw that conclusion? Sinister Six probably needs MCU tie ins like SHIELD. Who will even be the protagonist? Unless Dare Devil is showing up, or Spiderman himself, they don't really have a centerpiece character for that.

At the very least, if they were an antagonist of SHIELD and Spidey is recruited, it can work. Otherwise S6 would only convolute the MCU if they try to incorporate it after the fact.

The way I would play this, rework the character into the MCU, and as a return investment for Marvel, Sony agrees to relinquish rights completely after a certain time or number of Spidey films produced by Sony. I still think Garfield can be incorporated, but it has to be in Phase 3 otherwise Marvel will recast the character in P4. Maybe Sony cuts a distribution deal for solo movies for X amount of films.