The Winter Soldier What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

[Heretic]

The helicarriers were not originally intended to wipe out every threat in one attack. It was supposed to work similar to our actual drone system. Even Fury knew that they would be assassinating POTENTIAL threats to security. They would have started with people who were generally considered dangerous...maybe some Ten Rings bases...take out people like Stephen Strange that is not considered a Hero of New York. Then, the Hydra motive would kick in and start knocking off Tony Stark etc. Captain America's involvement forced their hand. Had they not acted immediately, he would have had time to warn the president, other nations, the other Avengers etc.

 

[C_Carmichael]

This might be a bit too fanboi for some but here it goes...

Cap and his team need to take out 3 Helicarriers. Only one on Cap's team can fly.

Does anyone have Stark's number? Perhaps Iron Patriot could give them a hand in stopping a major threat to the US and the rest of the World?

Some sort of help from the Stark side would have been nice. Perhaps a remote shutdown, since Stark's tech is all over those big ass ships.

Other than that, I had no complaints. t:

 

[Windows]

I was surprised none of the vets took notice of Steve. He's the perfect person to talk about adjustment with.

Yeah, I thought that, too, but I figured they just wanted to move it along due to pacing issues.

The senator could've had more to do besides being a Hydra reveal.

I guess they just wanted to put a nice twist to IM2 right there, but I agree, it really didn't do much.

And I don't see why Bucky had to slink off into the pines. Why do they need to keep building ambiguity around him? The people who held him captive are dead or arrested. SHIELD's dissolved for now. It makes more sense that he stick with Steve than mope on his own.

Well, they need a plot for a sequel, don't they? In terms of the movie canon, Bucky right now is in a very, very confused state, so I don't blame him for wandering off to do some soul searching.

The helicarriers were not originally intended to wipe out every threat in one attack. It was supposed to work similar to our actual drone system. Even Fury knew that they would be assassinating POTENTIAL threats to security. They would have started with people who were generally considered dangerous...maybe some Ten Rings bases...take out people like Stephen Strange that is not considered a Hero of New York. Then, the Hydra motive would kick in and start knocking off Tony Stark etc. Captain America's involvement forced their hand. Had they not acted immediately, he would have had time to warn the president, other nations, the other Avengers etc.

I think that it's a little different. From what I saw, it seemed that, if the Helicarriers had gone operational, they would have started blasting away the President and other American leaders right off the bat. Of course, this would reveal HYDRA (or at least, to the world, SHIELD) as being the villain, but by then it would be too late.

Does anyone have Stark's number? Perhaps Iron Patriot could give them a hand in stopping a major threat to the US and the rest of the World?

Some sort of help from the Stark side would have been nice. Perhaps a remote shutdown, since Stark's tech is all over those big ass ships.

Other than that, I had no complaints.

The directors mentioned that since the movie takes place over just a few days, there wasn't time to call in anybody else, but I agree with you, Steve should have just picked up the phone to call Tony.

But, given the limitations of the filming, how could they have involved Tony in the plot line without actually having RDJ show up for a million dollar cameo? I suppose that's a script issue. Maybe, off screen, they tried to get in touch with Tony, but he was off doing whatever billionaire inventors do, being reclusive on a tropical island somewhere, who knows.

 

[C_Carmichael]

The directors mentioned that since the movie takes place over just a few days, there wasn't time to call in anybody else, but I agree with you, Steve should have just picked up the phone to call Tony.

But, given the limitations of the filming, how could they have involved Tony in the plot line without actually having RDJ show up for a million dollar cameo? I suppose that's a script issue. Maybe, off screen, they tried to get in touch with Tony, but he was off doing whatever billionaire inventors do, being reclusive on a tropical island somewhere, who knows.

The way I sort of envisioned a scenario like this going down is during the scene where Cap is planning with BW, Falcon, Fury and Hill, Fury makes a call to Stark. Either a cell call, or a video call. (minimal RDJ screen time, either a voice on the phone or him on a screen) and he gives some excuse for not being able to help (since his suits are all blown up) and relays a message to Iron Patriot. IP is on the other side of the world, but immediately blasts into the sky to fly back to the States.

This concept wouldn't actually necessitate IP to actually get there in time, but would show that our team of heroes can at least call for help in a major crisis, even if the help isn't there fast enough.

 

[Heretic]

This might be a bit too fanboi for some but here it goes...

Cap and his team need to take out 3 Helicarriers. Only one on Cap's team can fly.

Does anyone have Stark's number? Perhaps Iron Patriot could give them a hand in stopping a major threat to the US and the rest of the World?

Some sort of help from the Stark side would have been nice. Perhaps a remote shutdown, since Stark's tech is all over those big ass ships.

Other than that, I had no complaints. t:

1. Trust no one.
2. Tony had some issues with contacting people himself, what with his home being destroyed and all.
3. SHIELD was likely monitoring communications. Making a call is a good way to die.

 

[Windows]

1. Trust no one.
2. Tony had some issues with contacting people himself, what with his home being destroyed and all.
3. SHIELD was likely monitoring communications. Making a call is a good way to die.

Yeah, this is probably the best answer.

Realistically, the best help Tony could have provided would be to have JARVIS mess around with the Insight data, but they probably either couldn't contact Tony, or knew that attempting to do so would get them traced.

 

[Roberto22]

Just thought of one biggie - how perfect Black Widow looked throughout it

Yes Scarlett is beautiful on her own, but in every scene Black Widow looked like she'd spent 3 hours putting make-up on, even after getting kicked in by the Winter Soldier. Then they went to Falcon's place, she had a shower, and bam, she's back to looking perfect again, as if Falcon had make-up and hair straightners to hand... I dunno, it just bothered me, jealousy perhaps haha

I thought the exact same thing..... that scene really threw me off, why would she straighten her hair and put on a face of makeup, at the point? it almost seemed like a continuity error,otherwise loved the movie favorite Marvel movie, even above Avengers.

 

[STR1]

No Hawkeye for me.

But I am sure there is a reason. He was probably on another mission sent by Fury. I assume there are hundreds of SHIELD agents on several missions all around the place just like the FBI, CIA etc. not everyone is going to be at that exact same location where the events of TWS took place.

 

[yllum]

ok this is nitpicking..but i really like to know what you guys think about this.

i feel that the phyiscal ability of cap is not consistent throughout the film.
let just talk about 2 scenes.

OK SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!


1. the scene where steve was cornered in the lift, he had no choice but to break the windows of the lift and fall from a great height using his shield as a cushion. you can clearly see him in pain after the fall.

however in

2. remember towards the ending, there is this part when he was jumping onto a helicarrier from great height! he has no problem with that. that jump was i guess, probably more than 10 storeys height.

like i say, that is nit picking but cap physical ability should be consistent. i may be wrong but the fall from the lift should be around the same height

 

[Ms. Marvel]

ok this is nitpicking..but i really like to know what you guys think about this.

i feel that the phyiscal ability of cap is not consistent throughout the film.
let just talk about 2 scenes.

OK SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!


1. the scene where steve was cornered in the lift, he had no choice but to break the windows of the lift and fall from a great height using his shield as a cushion. you can clearly see him in pain after the fall.

however in

2. remember towards the ending, there is this part when he was jumping onto a helicarrier from great height! he has no problem with that. that jump was i guess, probably more than 10 storeys height.

like i say, that is nit picking but cap physical ability should be consistent. i may be wrong but the fall from the lift should be around the same height

Well the first time he did crash through a lot of glass.

 

[cph9fa]

There was some unnecessary shaky-cam in some scenes which bothered me. It occasionally made it hard for me to focus on some things, and therefore, less visually appealing. If I see it a second time in a theater, I'll sit farther back.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I got nothing. Maybe I'll spot something after subsequent viewings but for now I thought the film was pretty perfect.

 

[Rock Sexton]

I got nothing. Maybe I'll spot something after subsequent viewings but for now I thought the film was pretty perfect.

The movie is getting nothing but praise from most people and somehow this thread is 25 pages long and the 3rd most active thread in the TWS forum. LOL

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Why not just make it so inserting the flash drive caused a bomb to explode in the room?

Because exploding your heroes an hour into the story makes for a really lame movie.

The movie is getting nothing but praise from most people and somehow this thread is 25 pages long and the 3rd most active thread in the TWS forum. LOL

Yeah I was going to go back through the thread and check out some of the criticisms but if the above is the best people can manage I don't think I'll bother.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Because exploding your heroes an hour into the story makes for a really lame movie.

LOL ...... Makes you wonder if that poster actually thought about that question before he asked it.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

To be fair it's easier to debate in these threads than the "what did you like" threads hence these threads tend to be busier.

 

[metaphysician]

...take out people like Stephen Strange that is not considered a Hero of New York.

i am 100% certain Fury had no such intention.

 

[terry78]

Furty wasn't planning on taking out heroes, but people who had terrorist type goals apparently.

 

[conan69]

Nevermind.. found the answer to my own question

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The movie is getting nothing but praise from most people and somehow this thread is 25 pages long and the 3rd most active thread in the TWS forum. LOL

It is what happens when there are 20 post to respond to any criticism.

 

[STR1]

Not that it matters because I loved the movie but when CA and BW were interrogating Sitwell for him to say something in the lines of "like the Avengers, Stephen Strange, Matt Murdock and many others."

Or when the Insight had targets locked for the upcoming Defenders to be some of the targets and or Johnny Blaze instead of some of the few random names that appeard. It would of been a nice nod that they exist in the MCU.

Not complaining, I liked the movie just the way it is.

 

[C_Carmichael]

Not a criticism of the movie, but rather an anti-criticism...

The fighting in this movie was top notch. Very acrobatic, very strong, very fast. I really liked that. Exactly what I was hoping for action-wise!

 

[Windows]

I thought the exact same thing..... that scene really threw me off, why would she straighten her hair and put on a face of makeup, at the point? it almost seemed like a continuity error,otherwise loved the movie favorite Marvel movie, even above Avengers.

I guess story-wise, it can be argued that since she's not just a tough soldier but a spy, she's used to doing that as a sort of passive disguise.

like i say, that is nit picking but cap physical ability should be consistent. i may be wrong but the fall from the lift should be around the same height

Well, in the second scene, he fell into water. Obviously, in real life, a fall into water from that kind of height would most likely result in death for average joes, but Steve's special. He also established that he could do it in the opening action scene.

Because exploding your heroes an hour into the story makes for a really lame movie.

That's not a really satisfactory answer to possible plot holes. When you answer these kinds of questions, you should give a reason based in the canon / lore, not a reason based on the process of making the movie - those are outside considerations.

The real answer to that question is simply that there was no self-destruct type mechanism in the facility because no one thought it would be needed. That's why it's not a plot hole.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

There was some unnecessary shaky-cam in some scenes which bothered me. It occasionally made it hard for me to focus on some things, and therefore, less visually appealing. If I see it a second time in a theater, I'll sit farther back.

That actually did wonders for me. The first time I saw the movie I was about 20 rows back from the screen. The 2nd time I saw it I sat all the way in the back and I was able to follow things much easier, especially Falcon's flight scenes which was my initial complaint. I'm still bothered a bit by the unnecessary shaky cam with the fights involving Cap and Winter Soldier though. Seriously, is there any reason to cut up this hard work and awesome choreography with closeup shots and shaky cam?

 

[PunyGod]

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