Where did DC/WB go wrong? - Part 1

[The Morningstar]

Yea i don't necessarily want, or think doing a DCU is a good idea.

 

[craigdbfan]

Agreed, craig. It doesn't matter who gets there first. WB really needs to take notes from Marvel.

I seriously believe The Flash is our only hope for a jumping off point into a shared DC cinematic universe as I have mentioned previously. I pray they do not drop the ball on that one.

I'm right there with you Lone.

Good call on Flash being the last bit of hope to get something like this rolling. I think there's a very good chance of WB adopting a similar approach if The Avengers proves itself to be successful both critically and financially (which is seeming very, very likely).

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Yea i don't necessarily want, or think doing a DCU is a good idea.

I'm with you. DC hasn't copied Marvel significantly in the past (except with a casual character here and there). Why should they start now?

Marvel beat WB/DC to it first. That's that. WB/DC should really reconsider their approach.

 

[jmc]

My fear is that WB are going to react to Avengers by doing a JL film.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Mine too.

 

[craigdbfan]

Making a JL with zero build up and no ties across different films would be the most dimwitted thing WB/DC could ever possibly do.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Making a JL with zero build up and no ties across different films would be the most dimwitted thing WB/DC could ever possibly do.

They almost attempted it in 2007.

Terrible, terrible idea.

 

[jmc]

Making a JL with zero build up and no ties across different films would be the most dimwitted thing WB/DC could ever possibly do.

It's not the lack of lead up films that worries me, it's the knee jerk reaction to Avengers I'm worried about.

 

[craigdbfan]

I don't think DC/WB would be so dense as to do something so impulsive like that. Especially after Green Lantern. Taking what worked from the shared universe concept Marvel studios has been successfully doing and applying it to their unused characters like The Flash, Martian Manhunter, & Wonder Woman however to lay the foundation for an eventual JL movie would be far more likely at this stage.

MOS would have been the perfect launch point but that ship has seemingly long sailed.

 

[jmc]

Dude, studios react like that all the time when something big happens. You know what's work from Marvel's concept? It ain't the shared universe thing. It's the fact that the films for the most part have been competently made. Not perfect by any mean but at a consistent level. Thing is WB shouldn't have to look at Marvel to know what to do, there's no secret formula to successful superheroes other than go in with the intention of making a good movie, not a good superhero movie, a good movie. They only need to look in their own bloody backyard to see what happens when you have a creative team who want to make a great movie. Thing is Marvel Studios whole existence depends on the movies at worst being watchable, and the intention is there to do it, WB doesn't rely on superheroes and can generate revenue from countless other films, if something fails they move on to the next thing, there's not the same commitment. It comes down to the philosophies of each companies being different, there's no desire for DC universe because financially it doesn't make sense for them to do it, if Batman and Superman are helping pay the bills then it's all good, what do you need WW, Flash, Aquaman or GL for then?

 

[Lone]

If WB decides to do a standalone JL movie in response to Avengers, there wouldn't be enough facepalms in the universe to react to that.

Had the Avengers been a standalone movie, I definitely feel there wouldn't be as much hype and anticipation and probably half as much fun.

After Nick Fury popped-up at the end of IM, it made me look forward to see IM2, TIH, Thor and CA just to see all the pieces fit. When was the last time we had a bunch of franchises that belonged to a shared universe and didn't actively try to hide that fact or be vague about it but actually embrace it? That alone added a lot of fun and excitement to my cinema going experience.

JL movie = Yes. Standalone JL movie = HELL NO!

 

[jmc]

Difference being a stand alone JL still has the biggest names in all of comics books attached to it. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, even Green Lantern.

 

[Lone]

Difference being a stand alone JL still has the biggest names in all of comics books attached to it. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, even Green Lantern.

It would make even more money if those characters were played by the same actors who the audience has already seen playing them in a solo outing.

 

[chamber-music]

The JL Mortal movie they were planning had mostly no name actors in the roles and a budget bigger than John Carter. It wouldn't of been wise to bank on the name recognition alone of the characters alone to bring in audiences.

 

[jmc]

It would make even more money if those characters were played by the same actors who the audience has already seen playing them in a solo outing.

I'm fairly confident a JL film would make just as much money whether there are solo film before it or not, granted it's good. Batman now = $$$.

 

[The Morningstar]

I'm with you. DC hasn't copied Marvel significantly in the past (except with a casual character here and there). Why should they start now?

Marvel beat WB/DC to it first. That's that. WB/DC should really reconsider their approach.

The thing DC has over Marvel is Vertigo. So many rich, intelligent, mature stories to tell from there. WB should take advantage of that, because that is where DC completely outclasses Marvel.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do any superhero films, but I just don't think there needs to be that much emphasis on keeping up with Marvel, in terms of actual superheroes, when DC has a goldmine of potential in Vertigo.

 

[Lone]

I'm fairly confident a JL film would make just as much money whether there are solo film before it or not, granted it's good. Batman now = $$$.

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on that one buddy. If you cast actors that the audience have already invested in as the character from a previous outing, you will probably double the amount of money it would make.

Off topic, I would kill to watch an 80's John Carpenter directed DCnU Animal Man movie.

 

[FlashThompson]

The thing DC has over Marvel is Vertigo. So many rich, intelligent, mature stories to tell from there. WB should take advantage of that, because that is where DC completely outclasses Marvel.

Outclasses? Maybe in the comics, but at the rate they're going with movies (other than batman) I highly doubt there is a way these dimwits at WB will "outclass" a marvel movie such as IronMan or X-Men 1-2 in the next 2-4 years.

 

[chiefchirpa]

The thing DC has over Marvel is Vertigo. So many rich, intelligent, mature stories to tell from there. WB should take advantage of that, because that is where DC completely outclasses Marvel.

But Vertigo based films like V for Vendetta, Stardust, Road to Perdition and History of Violence have been irrelevant commercial-wise. They may have critically acclaimed but they're also easily forgotten (so far). Though the most important thing for WB is they couldn't sell merchandising and other promotion out of these more artsy films.

Flash and Wonder Woman on the other hand could sell toys and more superhero movies because of the DC Comics brand.

 

[Docker2.0]

Amazing post.

I hope with all my heart that WB tries making a viable shared universe. Their opportunity was with MOS but they are dead set on following everything Chris Nolan tells them to do (I love the Nolan Batman films but DC/WB needs to be more gutsy in getting certain things across).

WB has already made several great standalone movies (along with several stinkers) on their flagship characters but they seem to be completely stuck in that rut and don't have anywhere else to go but further that stagnation.

There is so much potential for an amazing DC shared universe movie concept. Unfortunately they were beaten to the punch. They have had this idea of a Justice League movie for ages but couldn't figure out how to do it. Marvel Studios figured to make the best out what they had and have done incredibly well. This is a company that didn't even have their flagship characters to spearhead this endeavor yet it still worked through determination and assembling (no pun intended) the right individuals for the job.

Regardless of Marvel Studios getting there first, DC/WB should just embrace this experiment Marvel Studios embarked on and use the basic framework to their own main DC canon. I mean WB has every single character at their disposal and aren't anywhere near the handicapped situation Marvel Studios found themselves in with the selection of characters yet they still pulled it off.

They simply don't have any more excuses from this point forward.

How is that any different to what I said?!

 

[The Batman]

What does WB get from copying now?

Nothing, fanboys just spew the most unoriginal ideas.

The funny thing is, said fanboys would be the same ones crowing if the "lets rip off marvel" approach went wrong....

 

[The Morningstar]

Outclasses? Maybe in the comics, but at the rate they're going with movies (other than batman) I highly doubt there is a way these dimwits at WB will "outclass" a marvel movie such as IronMan or X-Men 1-2 in the next 2-4 years.

Get Nicolas Winding Refn to do 100 Bullets or Terry Gilliam to do Sandman and they'll outclass every Marvel movie ever made.

But Vertigo based films like V for Vendetta, Stardust, Road to Perdition and History of Violence have been irrelevant commercial-wise. They may have critically acclaimed but they're also easily forgotten (so far). Though the most important thing for WB is they couldn't sell merchandising and other promotion out of these more artsy films.

Flash and Wonder Woman on the other hand could sell toys and more superhero movies because of the DC Comics brand.

Why should we, as fans give a **** about that though? Just give me some good movies, i don't care about how much money they make.

 

[gugumugats]

I'm fairly confident a JL film would make just as much money whether there are solo film before it or not, granted it's good. Batman now = $$$.

I'm with you on this one ....

However, as an overall franchise, a shared universe can definitely make more money. People would want to see all the movies within the shared universe so that they "don't miss any piece of the puzzle." You can sell more DVDs of the older movies when the newer movies come out PLUS you can sell box sets of the entire franchise.

I still agree with you though on a JL movie making $$$ with or without build up. Batman/Superman/WW are really iconic characters that most of the GA will recognize. Flash and maybe GL are the only tough sells here, but even the Flash is simple as "guy who runs really fast."

Keep in mind though that $$$ ≠ Quality.

Plus, why risk shared universes and team-ups if you can sell the GA on one character and give that one character their own franchise. I remember then how they felt that Thor or CA were the risky films that could bring the whole house of cards down.

 

[metaphysician]

Why should we, as fans give a **** about that though? Just give me some good movies, i don't care about how much money they make.

Because if they don't make money, the studios won't make any more. And if the studios don't *expect* to make money, they won't make them in the first place.

Why is this such an alien concept?

 

[The Morningstar]

Because if they don't make money, the studios won't make any more. And if the studios don't *expect* to make money, they won't make them in the first place.

Why is this such an alien concept?

I understand the concept. But people also need to understand the concept that not every comic book film needs to be a 200 million dollar budgeted, mid summer tent pole.