Where did DC/WB go wrong? - Part 1

[DoomsdayApex]

Like I said in the MoS boards, it's merely sour grapes from WB rejecting Whedon's script for Wonder Woman. From what has been said here by WB sources, apparently, Whedon went the Aronofsky-route with Wonder Woman, and WB wanted no part of it.

Anywho, both WB and Whedon were better off. I don't think Whedon was the right man for the job (at least for me). I'm not a fan of his style at all.

 

[Ultimatehero]

How exactly did he go the Aronofsky route? Nothing in the script is Aronofsky in the least. And just saying - wait until 'The Avengers' because it seems to be along the same as his WW.

 

[HighFivingMF]

If Avengers is along the lines of Whedon's Wonder Woman, then he did Wonder Woman wrong.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I can't really say anything without revealing information. This is beyond difficult lol. All I can say is wait and see. From all the comics I've read leading up to reading the script, he was faithful to the source. His Wonder Woman and all his female characters were strong. The gods were done justice. The action was out of this world. After that draft? Things fell apart. They tried to make it more gritty and realistic. Diana became weaker. The action became more cliche. I have yet to see that many comic book films surpass what this would have been in my mind. Also I checked out a previous thread - the rumor that it was a period piece? Absolutely incorrect.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Edit.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

How exactly did he go the Aronofsky route? Nothing in the script is Aronofsky in the least. And just saying - wait until 'The Avengers' because it seems to be along the same as his WW.

I'm not citing that Whedon went 'Aronofksy'. I'm saying that Whedon radically changed some things about Wonder Woman similar to how Aronofsky changed several mythos to Batman in his Year One script.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Edit

 

[Ultimatehero]

I'm not citing that Whedon went 'Aronofksy'. I'm saying that Whedon radically changed some things about Wonder Woman similar to how Aronofsky altered several mythos to Batman in his Year One script.

Seeing as no one here to my knowledge has actually read the script? What exactly do you think he changed? I can tell you if it's a false rumor or not. Because unlike those here and fake scripts circulating - I've actually read it.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Seeing as no one here to my knowledge has actually read the script? What exactly do you think he changed? I can tell you if it's a false rumor or not. Because unlike those here and fake scripts circulating - I've actually read it.

I can't be sure if it's the real copy of the script or not but I've talked to two legitimate sources on this site (who have been 'on-the-money' with Batman and Superman stuff) but one can't confirm the leak and the other one did. So it's difficult to say whether or not I've seen the actual script and sketches, but both offered their displeasements over how Whedon handled Wonder Woman.

How much can you share?

 

[Ultimatehero]

I can't share none because I actually am at one of the companies that was behind the film and I'm on contract. What I can do is say yes or no to false rumors flying around out there. Now, if you have a false rumor or any details - I can tell you if it's the correct script or not. But beyond that I can't say a thing. Those who know me here probably have a clue of where I'm connected. I need no proof more than that.

Additional note because some might think I'll reveal things in private messaging. Some people have already tried. Don't. I will not share anything about this film. In my mind's eye it's underwraps for a reason or else it'd be out there for everyone to read like Kevin Smith's 'Superman.' So I can't say a thing.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I can't share none because I actually am at one of the companies that was behind the film and I'm on contract. What I can do is say yes or no to false rumors flying around out there. Now, if you have a false rumor or any details - I can tell you if it's the correct script or not. But beyond that I can't say a thing. Those who know me here probably have a clue of where I'm connected. I need no proof more than that.

Additional note because some might think I'll reveal things in private messaging. Some people have already tried. Don't. I will not share anything about this film. In my mind's eye it's underwraps for a reason or else it'd be out there for everyone to read like Kevin Smith's 'Superman.' So I can't say a thing.

I understand. I'm not going to force the issue. It's your job, and I'm not that guy.

Would you prefer private messaging or is it okay to discuss it here?

 

[Ultimatehero]

Can't do either. I mean, dude, just drop down some of the things you've heard in generalizations and I'll you if it's accurate or not. Basically dispelling rumors. That's all I can do. I can tell you that the whole WWII rumor that I've heard just from googling to try to find out what this Aronofsky thing is - is 100% incorrect.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

No, I meant if it's okay to 'confirm' whether or not the rumors were true or false on here or through private messaging, but I got it.

First rumor: Looking at the sketches, I saw six outfits -- one featuring a black trenchcoat and another with an awkward-looking skirt engulfed with stars and stripes. Can you verify if these are accurate to Whedon's vision?

 

[Cain]

I remember the WWII spec script being completely unrelated to Whedon. Nothing unfaithful about that BTW cause it's a golden age character we're talking about here.

RE: rumors from Whedon's draft though

Her being all catty with Steve Trevor throughout and needing Steve to help humanize her; true or false?

Diana not learning how to deflect bullets with her bracelets on Themiscyra but taking bullets to the chest and pulling them out instead and learning the importance of dodging projectiles that way; true or false?

Cause if true then yeah those are elements that are definitely not in line with WW comic books. As a fan they seem like suspect as hell choices to me and I could see why they upset many people.

 

[Cain]

No, I meant if it's okay to 'confirm' whether or not the rumors were true or false on here or through private messaging, but I got it.

First rumor: Looking at the sketches, I saw six outfits -- one featuring a black trenchcoat and another with an awkward-looking skirt engulfed with stars and stripes. Can you verify if these are accurate to Whedon's vision?

Yeah that's another one. Apparently he didn't want the iconic look according to rumor.

 

[Ultimatehero]

No mention of anything like that in the script.

Diana is already much humanized without Steve in the script. Definitely not catty in how I'm picturing it. She's strong. Sounds like a different version that I've read. There was a script that played her up as a helpless female with no clue at all, less action, and just their relationship with Steve being the hero. That script in all honesty wasn't good at all.

Nope. False.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I remember the WWII spec script being completely unrelated to Whedon. Nothing unfaithful about that BTW cause it's a golden age character we're talking about here.

RE: rumors from Whedon's draft though

Her being all catty with Steve Trevor throughout and needing Steve to help humanize her; true or false?

Diana not learning how to deflect bullets with her bracelets on Themiscyra but taking bullets to the chest and pulling them out instead and learning the importance of dodging projectiles that way; true or false?

Cause if true then yeah those are elements that are definitely not in line with WW comic books. As a fan they seem like suspect as hell choices to me and I could see why they upset many people.

Yeah, I remember that, but I cant be sure from what script.

Thank god it was false.

 

[Cain]

No mention of anything like that in the script.

Diana is already much humanized without Steve in the script. Definitely not catty in how I'm picturing it. She's strong. Sounds like a different version that I've read.

Nope. False.

Interesting. As a Wonder Woman fan I was kinda glad they canned the project cause of those rumors amongst others; but if that wasn't the case I do wonder (no pun) just how close Whedon did end up getting after all. A shame if he really did nail a lot of the key elements of the mythos within a cinematic narrative and they just went "do not want!".

 

[Ultimatehero]

That's what happened in the end. And we saw the same thing happen with 'Green Lantern' more or less. DC even at that time wanted something that was dark and gritty and realistic. Anyone who read the first draft of 'Green Lantern' knows - DC took out the more fantastical elements in it and made it come off less like a comic book. That's exactly what I kept finding in drafts that weren't Whedons. That exact take. Darker, grittier, less budget. There was one in which the Amazon city was just a foot-note.

As I said before, DC's main problem is fearing going in the comic book route. For whatever reason they want to stay away from that and distance themselves from that. They're really just afraid of taking risks. I'm hoping 'Avengers' will stop them from fearing these takes that do basically seem like comic books in live action form. Because to me that - for most of these characters - is inevitably what is going to work and pay off.

 

[Cain]

Yeah I read the first draft of GL and enjoyed it much more than the finished product. I was actually quite flabbergasted at how badly it was reduced by the time it reached final draft and we got what we saw on film when I saw the movie last summer. You'd expect the script to get better and not much worse.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Rumor #2:

In the script, Diana is supposedly 'brainwashed' into being anti-man right from the get-go, is it true?

 

[Ultimatehero]

Yeah I read the first draft of GL and enjoyed it much more than the finished product. I was actually quite flabbergasted at how badly it was reduced by the time it reached final draft and we got what we saw on film when I saw the movie last summer. You'd expect the script to get better and not much worse.

Exactly and if you really look at what happened. That script was a lot more fantastical. It was like a comic book basically, just needed some fine tuning. But, all first drafts do. And the same outlook is what I saw for the other WW scripts passed Whedon's. Lower budget. Make it darker. Ground it. As said, in one script we never see Amazon city. That alone says DC's level thinking with it's supporting characters.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Rumor #2:

In the script, Diana is supposedly 'brainwashed' into being anti-man right from the get-go, is it true?

LMAOL. These rumors are actually out there? Way false. To them Steve is hot. Or I should say the younger Amazonians, the older are too caught up in their ways. Imagine a babe in a military base where only dudes are - you got the idea of how depending on rank and age one would react. Or imagine an alien landing here, you wouldn't hate them from the get-go, you'd be interested but also cautious. "What is this strange creature?" (Not a line)

 

[DoomsdayApex]

LMAOL. These rumors are actually out there? Way false. To them Steve is hot. Or I should say the younger Amazonians, the older are too caught up in their ways. Imagine a babe in the military base where only dudes are - you got the idea.

Great! I figured that would be a sh**ty route for ANY director to take. Whew.

Rumor #3: Incidentally, by the second act, the film takes a romantic-comedy angle between Diana and Steve. True?

Rumor #4: Diana makes her debut as a superhero similar to how Superman made his return in Superman Returns. Hot or cold?

 

[MadVillainy]

That's what happened in the end. And we saw the same thing happen with 'Green Lantern' more or less. DC even at that time wanted something that was dark and gritty and realistic. Anyone who read the first draft of 'Green Lantern' knows - DC took out the more fantastical elements in it and made it come off less like a comic book. That's exactly what I kept finding in drafts that weren't Whedons. That exact take. Darker, grittier, less budget. There was one in which the Amazon city was just a foot-note.

As I said before, DC's main problem is fearing going in the comic book route. For whatever reason they want to stay away from that and distance themselves from that. They're really just afraid of taking risks. I'm hoping 'Avengers' will stop them from fearing these takes that do basically seem like comic books in live action form. Because to me that - for most of these characters - is inevitably what is going to work and pay off.

Been lurking in this thread for a bit because I feel like I discussed what I dont like about WB's method to the point of exhaustion

However, this point is interesting to me. I know a lot of people are tired of this movie as an example but I think one of the reasons The Dark Knight was successful was because it didn't feel like a superhero film. Obviously it had superhero movie elements, but it seemed to focus more on being a crime/gangster movie more than a superhero/comic movie. Another example, X-Men: FC felt like a spy movie and a revenge film for at least part of it

I think that's where the success is. I think WB should actually shy away about making superhero movies and focus on the other aspects more. If they make Aquaman more of an underwater King Arthur/Game of Thrones I think it would be more successful and be taken more seriously. If they make Wonder Woman more of a Greek Mythology movie, have more military aspects, and focus on Diana's role as a diplomatI think it will be more successful

THe only one that I think would be better of being just a comic book movie (not saying that's a bad thing) would be a JL project. But for the big 6 (7 if they want Martian Manhunter) I think you can make them better by not being just comic book movies