I disagree.
I think while IM3 could've been better executed (especially the third act), I think the false flag, Bin Laden/CIA stooge, the nefarious military industrial complex, the literal war machine becoming a public relations puppet (similar to USAgent in FAWS) were all subversive if not clever satire.
You want all of that with less mustache twirling then I think you're asking too much from a family Disney movie. I think they already had enough adult themes in there to chew on. I think trying to discredit the entire allegory because Killian was a bit over-the-top is both unfair and intellectually dishonest.
Then you have Winter Soldier which explores a neofascist plot to infiltrate every level of government and attempt to stage a coup possibly making Winter Soldier the most prophetic superhero film in history...
And to a lesser extent Civil War which asks what's more important? Security or autonomy?
You're telling me TDKR's forced and skin deep cultural revolution allegory is more relevant, deep and revelatory than all three MCU films and FAWS?
Well, how to respond to that ?
You see some of story elements of IM 3 as clever satire. Not sure those words have ever been applied to a Shane Black film.
So I can't agree with you there, I very honestly believe that IM 3 is not a clever film at all - and that whole Terrorism + false flag conspiracy thing well it wasn't subversive, just kind of silly in the way it was executed onscreen.
Fun fact, Shane Black has done the whole false flag + terrorism thing before and better, in the Long Kiss Goodnight, and that wasn't clever satire either.
It's just a plotline that's become a trope - James Bond has been doing it for decades.
The thing about satire is that it's best done with subtlety IMO, there was nothing subtle about the initial portrayal of the Mandarin, or the discovery that he was just a facade, or about Killian's character.
Now you've said that I have to expect some moustache twirling because it's a Disney family film. Fair enough.
I don't think being intellectually dishonest, because I honestly believe that IM3 isnt that smart a film. I just don't agree with you about it.
As for TDKR. It's pretty ott as well, and in my original post I noted that both films' villains' plots are ridiculous- especially the bomb plot, ugh.
However, the political elements it tackles are quite different - essentially it reenacts parts of Tale of Two Cities. There are 2 key themes that stand out to me.
1) The nature of revolution and class warfare. The central message seems to be that while revolution may appear to be a good thing, it often addresses past wrongs by committing wrongs, and can often be worse than what it replaced. Bane's revolution is of course built on a lie, but then isnt that a historical theme associated with revolutions ( e.g French, Russian and Chinese) although in reality revolutionary leaders become tyrants rather than try to blow up their entire counties ( although they often purge the population of enemies with show trials).
2)Due process: Bane's speech at Blackgate prison, while ott and delivered with possibly the worst masked voice in cinema history, is about due process. It is alluded to several times that the men there have been held without trial. The Harvey Dent angle, and Gordon's letter are pretty stupid - I mean who's really going to take Bane's word for what's on the page?
But, the underlying message, that a system which is designed to combat crime/injustice by perpetrating more injustice, and is built on lies, eventually crumbles.
The system of justice that "we" ( legal systems derived from the Anglo common law tradition) have is deeply flawed and subject to manipulation by the powerful, and by the institutions that enforce it. However, it prioritizes the presumption of innocence- which had essentially been done away with in Gotham city.
Where TDKR gets a little bit clever is that it then replaces the unjust system of imprisonment without trial, with a kangaroo court run by a lunatic - feeding back into the idea above that the revolution becomes worse than the previous system.
You may not agree with me, and I am fine with that.
As for the other MCU films:
I love the Captain America films, I really do, my favorite MCU films - especially TWS.
But let's be real here, IMO you cannot compare Hydra to the QAnon morons or the idiots who stormed the Capitol, and say that its prophetic, if that's what you're referring to.
Hydra is a secret, well organized, highly motivated and cleverly run fascist organisation that successfully infiltrates the government and Shield, it's only stopped from committing genocide at the last moment.
The real life proud boys and would-be insurrectionists and other idiots probably wouldn't make it through day 1 of Hydra's employee training program .
There's nothing secret or clever about them, and unlike Hydra they were unsuccessful - because other than a slightly extended self guided tour, they didn't last long in the building.
Or are you referring to a different group of neofacists trying to infiltrate government ? Infiltration involves getting inside something without anyone noticing.
As for Civil War, well I see the key political themes differently.
Security vs autonomy ? To me that's not the choice that's not really being offered - in fact it's not even a choice, the Avengers have to submit to the demands of government or accept retirement.
To me it's more about autonomy of the individual or small groups vs the authority of the state.
A key question is who can make better decisions for the greatest good ? The Avengers as individuals using their moral compass or the UN as a committee authorised representatives who have legally sanctioned decision making power.
Tied in with that is the relationship between power and accountability. At the start of the film the Avengers have enormous power, and almost no accountability. Ross is right about that.
We see the Avengers as imperfect, as their collateral damage toll mounts.
But Cap is the mouthpiece of autonomous decision making, pointing out that despite not being perfect the Avengers have a moral compass that allows them to act for the greatest good, because they are independent of governments and their agendas.
Who would you trust to act for the greatest good ? The UN or the Avengers ?
