Dark Knight Rises vs Iron Man 3: Which Movie Inspired the Worse Fan Backlash?

[kane9321]

Both films were terrible

The bane/talia connection...ARE U SERIOUS
Blake/...robin...REALLY...REALLY?


im3...The whole mandarin twist made me lose faith in the world

 

[BoredGuy]

IM3 definitely got more hate

but i was personally more disappointed by TDKR

 

[OcStat]

I wasn't disappointed in either. Iron Man 3 is the better movie. I appreciate the extremes both movies pushed their franchises to.

 

[Squaremaster316]

The ironic thing is, if Marvel Studios hadn't been so boastful with a "holier than thou" attitude when it came to "believing in/honoring the source material", the backlash against the Mandarin twist probably wouldn't have been as drastic.

 

[Visualiza]

^That's a pretty long bow to draw.

 

[Silver Surfer]

IM3 by a mile and a half, it turned Iron-Man's Arch-Nemesis into a joke, literally. Hopefully they get it right in the eventual reboot.

 

[Batmannerism]

This one's for my buddy Visualiza ! (come on, it's funny, because it's true).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUYW0JyzydA

after all that furious debate, gotta have a laugh about it !

(and of course they're equally savage to my fave film MOS).

cheers.

 

[Visualiza]

This one's for my buddy Visualiza ! (come on, it's funny, because it's true).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUYW0JyzydA

after all that furious debate, gotta have a laugh about it !

(and of course they're equally savage to my fave film MOS).

cheers.

Cheers, I'm a big fan of HISHE. Honest Trailers ripped into it pretty hard too, that one was equally hilarious. If there's anything I can appreciate, it's a good laugh.

 

[KangConquers]

Am I the only person who noticed that no one gave a crap about the Mandarin until they ruined him? He's not a great comic book character. He's Iron Man's de facto arch-enemy vs. a character like Green Goblin, Doctor Doom, or Magneto, who have a deep seated animosity based on interpersonal experience with a hero.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

Am I the only person who noticed that no one gave a crap about the Mandarin until they ruined him? He's not a great comic book character. He's Iron Man's de facto arch-enemy vs. a character like Green Goblin, Doctor Doom, or Magneto, who have a deep seated animosity based on interpersonal experience with a hero.

No, you are not. Nobody DID give a crap. They just hate the twist out of principle.

 

[The Valeyard]

IM3 is keeping the MCU going. It helped expand it and was a great success in that right.


TDKR killed a successful reboot of Batman for no real reason except Nolan's ego. He retired Batman way too soon very unceremoniously and buried his own franchise.

Now DC films are in a real bad place when it comes to their universe plans. Their one critically acclaimed DC franchise is dead and soon to be rebooted (again).

 

[Visualiza]

No, you are not. Nobody DID give a crap. They just hate the twist out of principle.

What principle would be that be? Googling the character after the twist upset them, and then waxing about the virtues of alien rings and Chinese ancestry after the fact? I've heard of that principle...I think it's called confirmation bias.

I have the utmost respect for people who didn't like the twist because it simply didn't suit their personal taste. Some people didn't like the humorous nature of the reveal; I get it. Maybe you thought the plot was just lame. Once again, I get that. The folks I can't take seriously are the more unscrupulous types that rail on and on about the comic book interpretation(Edwin Jarvis says hello, by the way), when they previously were hyped to the heavens from what was shown in the trailers. That tells me that if Ben Kingsley was a terrorist war monger as was depicted in the trailers, everyone, even these so-called comic book faithfuls, would've never batted an eye. The second the wool was pulled over their eyes; however, not only did they cry foul, but they formed an opinion on a character with which they weren't very familiar in the first place. Where was the uproar when it was explicitly declared that this Mandarin would be a contemporary interpretation without alien power rings, whose heritage was deliberately left ambiguous?

It's interesting that we've finally been given a villain in the MCU whose motivations are more complex than "kill er'body and rule the world!", and yet all this fan community has done is cry foul. What have we decided to celebrate instead? General Zod, a cliche villain with a cliche plot, whose convictions can be explained away by genetic programming. How about that robot Silver Samurai? Sheer brilliance, and comic book faithful to the T. That's some deep stuff right there; far too sophisticated for the plebeians who appreciated Iron Man 3.

 

[Batmannerism]

What principle would be that be? Googling the character after the twist upset them, and then waxing about the virtues of alien rings and Chinese ancestry after the fact? I've heard of that principle...I think it's called confirmation bias.

I have the utmost respect for people who didn't like the twist because it simply didn't suit their personal taste. Some people didn't like the humorous nature of the reveal; I get it. Maybe you thought the plot was just lame. Once again, I get that. The folks I can't take seriously are the more unscrupulous types that rail on and on about the comic book interpretation(Edwin Jarvis says hello, by the way), when they previously were hyped to the heavens from what was shown in the trailers. That tells me that if Ben Kingsley was a terrorist war monger as was depicted in the trailers, everyone, even these so-called comic book faithfuls, would've never batted an eye. The second the wool was pulled over their eyes; however, not only did they cry foul, but they formed an opinion on a character with which they weren't very familiar in the first place. Where was the uproar when it was explicitly declared that this Mandarin would be a contemporary interpretation without alien power rings, whose heritage was deliberately left ambiguous?

It's interesting that we've finally been given a villain in the MCU whose motivations are more complex than "kill er'body and rule the world!", and yet all this fan community has done is cry foul. What have we decided to celebrate instead? General Zod, a cliche villain with a cliche plot, whose convictions can be explained away by genetic programming. How about that robot Silver Samurai? Sheer brilliance, and comic book faithful to the T. That's some deep stuff right there; far too sophisticated for the plebeians who appreciated Iron Man 3.

I can accept all of that, and the startlingly appropriate use of plebeians,
And, while I hated IM 3, I actually have to admit the reveal was hilarious.
Sir Ben is such a great actor. Trevor Slattery could have a film to himself.

Although, had they gone with the more conventional version of the Mandarin,
as megalomaniac, he certainly could have pulled it off. Sir Ben does villains seldom, but when he does them, he's superb (I would argue he's better than Ralph Fiennes, a bit better than Mark Strong, and at least as good as Alan Rickman or Ian McKellen).

Here's the bit I take exception to........General Zod , his motivation was to re-start his civilization, which admittedly has been done before, and no doubt will be done again.

However, I submit to you sir, that that particular plot is only a cliché when done badly. I thought Zod's obsession, due to genetic programming, and a lifetime of conditioning was pulled off well enough to rise above cliché.
Plus, the terraforming itself was destruction on a scale not even approached
in Avengers, which is distinction all its own (some hate it, but I loved it).

The bit before the final smackdown, where he almost breaks down to tears, and his increasing craziness during the fight were admirably handled by Shannon.

So while I'll concede I didn't like the twist, and that's just IMO, I will also concede that it was a bit more original than the standard supervillain plot.
Maybe I should give Black and co some credit for originality, but its execution
just didn't pan out for me.
Who knows, I'm a big Nolan fanboy, maybe Nolan would have done it in a way that would have worked for me.....although that would change the whole tone of the movie, as Nolan makes humour peripheral, whereas RDjr integrates humour into pretty much everything IM does.
Okay, maybe it wouldn't work.


The Silver Samurai, well that was pretty crappy, but I blame the source material - it's tough to make a guy who wears silver armour, and carries a samurai sword, and calls himself silver samurai interesting.

(and remember that Killian's whole plan in IM 3 is really just a live action version of the Incredibles, sort of. LOL ).t:

 

[super85]

I loved Rises and thought IM3 was a huge improvement from the mediocre IM2.

 

[Iron_Stark]

(and remember that Killian's whole plan in IM 3 is really just a live action version of the Incredibles, sort of. LOL ).t:

Its funny, someone pointed out that The Dark Knight Returns is the superhero version of Rocky III, and sure enough it is.

 

[GENERAL RAAM582]

I loved Rises, I'm not incredibly fond of IM3. Too much humor, wasted opportunities, and Mandarin.

 

[Victarion]

As far as villain motives go, I think Nuada Silverlance's were really good; they added some meat to the idea of "kill er'body!"

 

[Batmannerism]

Its funny, someone pointed out that The Dark Knight Returns is the superhero version of Rocky III, and sure enough it is.

LOL. I'd agree with most of that, but I'd say more like Rocky IV (you know, huge unstoppable steroid monster representing an opposing political ideology, the hero must retrain himself in hell....oh ****, that is pretty much Rocky III, wow do all the Rocky films have the same plots ????
Who knew ? And how did Stallone trick us into seeing the same film
6 times ?


However, Rocky doesn't fake his own death at the end of his films, he just comes back for more sequels....................

TDKR had its ups and downs, but at least it brings the story to a close.
I kind of feel like at the end of IM3 Shane Black tried one of those Nolan
montages you get at the end of TDK, the Prestige and TDKR where the character plots resolutions are intercut.

However, whereas Nolan pulls that off, (because he sets those plots in motion throughout the course of the film) so that as fans we feel an emotional payoff.
Black tries to do this, but then resolves everything in a really too-convenient montage (even a certain hard-core IM 3 supporter had to agree with me on that one) which doesn't end up satisfying anyone.

Sorry, got carried away there, the Rocky III comparison is a good one, cheers !

 

[2002SpideyFan]

Iron Man 3 without a doubt. Rises was disappointing only in comparison to the first two Nolan films, but it is an art-house masterpiece in comparison to vast majority of MCU films, especially movies like Iron Man 3 that suck as movie and suck even more as comic book adaptations.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

This is a tough one for me.

While I view Ironman 3 as the worst of the MCU films, The Dark Knight Rises was such a let down to me over the other two. Both movies got very silly very fast. The Dark Knight Rises had some suspension of disbelief going on while Ironman 3s real villains (I didn't mind the Mandarin twist) was just awful. I really wasn't a fan of the powers the bad guys had there. It bothered me more than Bruce fixing his broken back in a hole or Bane taking over a city for half a year.

Either way, both were let downs and downers for their respective franchises.

 

[ChukzZ]

Id have to say im3 though both were pretty good

 

[Flint Marko]

These are both really good movies, but Iron Man 3 inspired the worst fan backlash. Who knew that the Mandarin had so many fans before 2013?

 

[2002SpideyFan]

Who knew that the Mandarin had so many fans before 2013?

...Anyone who have been following Marvel comics for at least decade?

 

[metaphysician]

...Anyone who have been following Marvel comics for at least decade?

You would think more of these decades-long fans of the character would know more about the character, and not make mistaken statements like "he's a cold, collected manipulator" or "he's first and foremost about the rings".

 

[Flint Marko]

...Anyone who have been following Marvel comics for at least decade?

Which I most certainly have. Those Mandarin fans kept real quiet until three years ago.