The Dark Knight Rises Which villians are MOST LIKELY to appear?

[The Major]

That's the flip side to The Dark Knight being such a huge success. Warners are now going to hope for a sequel to rake in plenty of cash as well which means they'll want well known villains and most probably better known actors.

It'll rake in cash regardless. Most of the audience from TDK will come back.

 

[The Major]

I want Rupert Thorne to unite the old school mob together and have Penguin and possibly Black Mask bring up the new freak wave. Make it an all out crime war, and they bid for the identity of Batman which is investigated by Riddler and Hugo.

Also Selina is in the mix pissing off both sides

That's way to crowded. Most of those would be reduced to tiny parts when they all have potential for great stories to be told.

Just make it a crime war between Rupert Thorne, in a role similar to Maroni in TDK, and Black Mask, in the Joker slot, with Catwoman who would get the rest like Harvey Dent.

 

[CaptainClown]

That's way to crowded. Most of those would be reduced to tiny parts when they all have potential for great stories to be told.

Just make it a crime war between Rupert Thorne, in a role similar to Maroni in TDK, and Black Mask, in the Joker slot, with Catwoman who would get the rest like Harvey Dent.

Well count up all the people in TDK and BB, there is just as many. They all have their part to play in a grander scale. Scarecrow could have a great story but he was just a pawn and like everyone else they have their place, this isn't about the villains but Batman.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I think anyone is likely. Nobody was expecting Rahs Al Ghul or Scarecrow for "BB" and look what happened. Even Mr. Zsasz made a appearance. Anything is possible.

But as for me here are a list of villains/allies I would like to see:

VILLIANS:
Riddler
Catwoman
Penguin
Bane
The Ventriloquist
Harley
Poison Ivy
Rupert Thorne
Falcone Family
Zucco
Talia
Michael Akins (not a commissioner this time but changed as the new mayor. The one seen in "TDK" I would have get shot by a mob hit. Akins makes it his personal vendetta to rid the city of Batman, the mob, and all the freaks that inhabit it.)
Firefly
Black Mask
Penguin

ALLIES:
Bullock
Crispus Allen
Renee Montoya
Chief O' Hara (a nod to the old 60's show. Not a big speaking part but an old Irish cop who likes Batman and doesn't believe that he killed Dent and suspects a cover-up.)

NOT LIKELY:
Manbat
Mr. Freeze
Killer Croc

 

[The Major]

Well count up all the people in TDK and BB, there is just as many. They all have their part to play in a grander scale. Scarecrow could have a great story but he was just a pawn and like everyone else they have their place, this isn't about the villains but Batman.

What your suggesting would just be villains and Batman.

Black Mask, Rupert Thorne, Catwoman, Hugo Strange and Riddler could all be major threats. Of those Thorne and Hugo would be the easiest to give lesser roles to but BM, Catwoman and Riddler would all have huge parts even as pawns. A mob war would make them very important in the story unless one side of the leaders dies early.

Scarecrow did get plenty of screen time as a pawn in BB. Not as much as Ra's but he wasn't a cameo like TDK.

There's also the rest of the cast you have to deal with like Batman, Alfred, Lucius, Gordon, Scarecrow if he comes back, Ramirez if she comes back and any new characters. Riddler, BM and Catwoman would seriously take a lot of screen time from them even in lesser roles. Together they'd overwhelm a movie.

 

[CaptainClown]

Black Mask would be given a small role, same with Penguin. Riddler and Catwoman would easily be the main antagonists.

BM is a small business man and does NOT need to take up most of the story, especially since he works with Penguin and plans on back stabbing him, vice versa.

 

[The Major]

Black Mask would be given a small role, same with Penguin. Riddler and Catwoman would easily be the main antagonists.

For a gang war between the mob and the freaks? A story like that would require quite a bit of screen time from both sides of the conflict. You could make a film just on that.

BM is a small business man and does NOT need to take up most of the story, especially since he works with Penguin and plans on back stabbing him, vice versa.

Which would need lots of set-ups, twists, squabbling and consequences to be shown.

 

[CaptainClown]

A gang war would not require that much screen time. Especially if there is a strong implication that this has been going on for sometime. Black Mask and Penguin do not need a huge introduction, neither does Rupert Thorne.

The movie could start with a truce between the Three factions. Black Mask, Penguin and Thorne. Meanwhile Batman breaks the meeting blah blah same stuff. BM and Penguin unite to take out Thorne first, the side that kills the Batman is the one who will hold the power in the city. So both sides, old school and new seek out people to help them find Batmans identity. Thorne goes to Hugo, BM and Penguin go to Riddler since they employ freaks. Tension will also increase as Catwoman is stealing from both sides pitting them against one another. That could easily be 35 minutes if done right.

 

[The Major]

A gang war would not require that much screen time. Especially if there is a strong implication that this has been going on for sometime. Black Mask and Penguin do not need a huge introduction, neither does Rupert Thorne.

I disagree. Thorne needs some introduction since not all the pubic saw Batman:TAS but not a lot since he's not that different from a random mob boss, Penguin's going to need to be reintroduced since the character would still be identified with the freak in Burton's movies they'd need to set up at least a few minutes just on establishing his status quo. Black Mask is going to be a complete unknown to the public. He's going to need the most attention of those three unless they tie him to Earle from Batman Begins.

The movie could start with a truce between the Three factions. Black Mask, Penguin and Thorne. Meanwhile Batman breaks the meeting blah blah same stuff.

You don't want to see the gang war on screen?

That would be a plot which could make a fantastic film.

Meanwhile Batman breaks the meeting blah blah same stuff. BM and Penguin unite to take out Thorne first,

Why couldn't they just do this during the actual gang war?

the side that kills the Batman is the one who will hold the power in the city.

They wouldn't need Batman to do that. BM and Penguin would just turn on each other after Thorne's dead. The winner of that would get Gotham's underworld. They don't need to kill Batman for it.

So both sides, old school and new seek out people to help them find Batmans identity. Thorne goes to Hugo, BM and Penguin go to Riddler since they employ freaks.

You'd need Riddler and Hugo to get major screen time for this. Each given the amount Scarecrow got in BB.

As I said above once Thorne is gone they freaks would turn on each other then the winner would turn their full attention to Batman. One main villain is enough for this you don't need 2 main villains and 2 minor villains competing over finding Batman's secret identity. Just one main and minor villain could get the job done for the third act.

Tension will also increase as Catwoman is stealing from both sides pitting them against one another. That could easily be 35 minutes if done right.

You'd need more then 30 minutes for a good Catwoman story.

The film would be busy enough with the Penguin, BM, Riddler, Hugo and Thorne bits. You don't need her in it.

 

[CaptainClown]

God damn why do you break up conversations like that just a pain in the ass to respond to.

Dude it is easy to reintroduce the character. The way I envision the introduction to that whole scene is that it would start with a cigarette smoldering and someone breathing in. The shot would pull back and show its on a cigarette holder. Pull back farther you see a pissed off penguin and a large meeting inside an industrial werehouse.
Penguin looks more refined then the Burton version. Then exchange dialogue with Rupert Thorne about how there has been too much blood shed. Audiences don't know who Rupert Thorne is, but they didn't know who Maroni or Falcone are either.
Penguin is recognizable instantly and as far as the audience is concerned Thorne is the new head.


Black Mask in general is a mob boss. He is nothing special just another freak with an agenda. He is not a major villain that the audience would care much about just another freak.

As for the gang war, the real meat and grit of the gang war is what we see on screen through the middle of the film. Showing it from the beginning would take time introducing each faction. Showing the conflict it plunges the viewer right into it and its easy to figure out whats going on.

The person who brings down batman would show who has the power in Gotham. It shows who the city will respect. If also they find his identity they could take him down.

Also Scarecrow got like 10 minutes of screen time. Riddler and Hugo could easily have 20 minutes tops with what they have to offer.

Catwoman is serves as the romantic interest for Batman humanizing him. Ya I am too lazy to explain it all to ya, its not your thing I get it.

I also have no idea why you think thats too many people. I don't want to see whole movies about villains which its clear you want. Not all villains make an interesting story, when you chop them up into supporting characters you get some of the best characters without taking away from the story.

 

[The Major]

God damn why do you break up conversations like that just a pain in the ass to respond to.

It isn't that difficult. I'm not the only one who responses this way, either.

Dude it is easy to reintroduce the character. The way I envision the introduction to that whole scene is that it would start with a cigarette smoldering and someone breathing in. The shot would pull back and show its on a cigarette holder. Pull back farther you see a pissed off penguin and a large meeting inside an industrial werehouse. Penguin looks more refined then the Burton version. Then exchange dialogue with Rupert Thorne about how there has been too much blood shed.

How much would be explaining in this meeting with the characters after that?

Audiences don't know who Rupert Thorne is, but they didn't know who Maroni or Falcone are either.

True. Only Maroni and Falcone got enough screen time to establish themselves before they got defeated.

Falcone had Bruce Wayne having a conversation with him and Maroni had the court room scene with Harvey Dent.

Penguin is recognizable instantly and as far as the audience is concerned Thorne is the new head.

Recognition doesn't mean they'll understand his character. You need some decent screen time for them to get in his head before they'll learn the basics.

Black Mask in general is a mob boss. He is nothing special just another freak with an agenda. He is not a major villain that the audience would care much about just another freak.

Which will make the audience not care what he does. The best villains are ones who are three dimensional, nor disposable plot devices.

As for the gang war, the real meat and grit of the gang war is what we see on screen through the middle of the film.

In flashbacks or the Black Mask and Penguin war?

Showing it from the beginning would take time introducing each faction. Showing the conflict it plunges the viewer right into it and its easy to figure out whats going on.

Would you have any scenes before it with their gangs fighting each other?

The person who brings down batman would show who has the power in Gotham. It shows who the city will respect. If also they find his identity they could take him down.

Which is unnecessary. Who else are they going to work for but the person with the biggest operation in Gotham?

Penguin or BM killing the other then absorbing the other's syndicate into their own would give them an instant monopoly on crime in Gotham. They don't need Batman's killed to do that.

Also Scarecrow got like 10 minutes of screen time. Riddler and Hugo could easily have 20 minutes tops with what they have to offer.

You're going to spend 20 minutes just having Hugo and Riddler looking for Batman's identity? You could do a full movie on that plot with Batman playing cat and mouse with his pursuers.

You don't need them competing to make that plot exciting, either.

Catwoman is serves as the romantic interest for Batman humanizing him. Ya I am too lazy to explain it all to ya, its not your thing I get it.

I understand that.

It's just with CW they really could give her a Harvey Dent sized role in a movie and make a compelling movie since her relationship with Batman is not a short story to tell.

Your movie could fill two hours on its own without her in it.

I also have no idea why you think thats too many people. I don't want to see whole movies about villains which its clear you want.

You're plot would have the villains taking over the movie.

You've got three sets of villains fighting over him.

Not all villains make an interesting story,

With the proper execution they can be.

Updating, exploring stories which show them at their creative potential and the proper execution can do this. BM is far from being an unusable villain. He was even a villain in one of the drafts of TDK.

when you chop them up into supporting characters you get some of the best characters without taking away from the story.

Depends on the story. You'll get an interesting BM or Penguin in a war against Batman or each other while CW works as an on again off again love interest.

 

[The Major]

God damn why do you break up conversations like that just a pain in the ass to respond to.

It isn't that difficult. I'm not the only one who responses this way, either.

Dude it is easy to reintroduce the character. The way I envision the introduction to that whole scene is that it would start with a cigarette smoldering and someone breathing in. The shot would pull back and show its on a cigarette holder. Pull back farther you see a pissed off penguin and a large meeting inside an industrial werehouse. Penguin looks more refined then the Burton version. Then exchange dialogue with Rupert Thorne about how there has been too much blood shed.

How much would be explaining in this meeting with the characters after that?

Audiences don't know who Rupert Thorne is, but they didn't know who Maroni or Falcone are either.

True. Only Maroni and Falcone got enough screen time to establish themselves before they got defeated.

Falcone had Bruce Wayne having a conversation that lasted a minute or two with him and Maroni had the court room scene with Harvey Dent.

Penguin is recognizable instantly and as far as the audience is concerned Thorne is the new head.

Recognition doesn't mean they'll understand his character. You need some decent screen time for them to get in his head before they'll learn the basics.

Black Mask in general is a mob boss. He is nothing special just another freak with an agenda. He is not a major villain that the audience would care much about just another freak.

Which will make the audience not care what he does. The best villains are ones who are three dimensional, nor disposable plot devices.

As for the gang war, the real meat and grit of the gang war is what we see on screen through the middle of the film.

In flashbacks or the Black Mask and Penguin war?

Showing it from the beginning would take time introducing each faction. Showing the conflict it plunges the viewer right into it and its easy to figure out whats going on.

Would you have any scenes before it with their gangs fighting each other?

The person who brings down batman would show who has the power in Gotham. It shows who the city will respect. If also they find his identity they could take him down.

Which is unnecessary. Who else are they going to work for but the person with the biggest operation in Gotham?

Penguin or BM killing the other then absorbing the other's syndicate into their own would give them an instant monopoly on crime in Gotham. They don't need Batman's killed to do that.

Also Scarecrow got like 10 minutes of screen time. Riddler and Hugo could easily have 20 minutes tops with what they have to offer.

You're going to spend 20 minutes just having Hugo and Riddler looking for Batman's identity? You could do a full movie on that plot with Batman playing cat and mouse with his pursuers.

You don't need them competing to make that plot exciting, either.

Catwoman is serves as the romantic interest for Batman humanizing him. Ya I am too lazy to explain it all to ya, its not your thing I get it.

I understand that.

It's just with CW they really could give her a Harvey Dent sized role in a movie and make a compelling movie since her relationship with Batman is not a short story to tell.

Your movie could fill two hours on its own without her in it.

I also have no idea why you think thats too many people. I don't want to see whole movies about villains which its clear you want.

You're plot would have the villains taking over the movie.

You've got three sets of villains fighting over him.

Not all villains make an interesting story,

With the proper execution they can be.

Updating, exploring stories which show them at their creative potential and the proper execution can do this. BM is far from being an unusable villain. He was even a villain in one of the drafts of TDK.

when you chop them up into supporting characters you get some of the best characters without taking away from the story.

Depends on the story. You'll get an interesting BM or Penguin taking over Gotham while CW works as an on again off again love interest.

 

[CaptainClown]

It isn't that difficult. I'm not the only one who responses this way, either.

I know its not difficult, but its a pain in the ass to track what your talking about when responding back.

How much would be explaining in this meeting with the characters after that?

You don't need explaining. Some characters are just are. Scarecrow got no explanation he just was.

True. Only Maroni and Falcone got enough screen time to establish themselves before they got defeated.Falcone had Bruce Wayne having a conversation with him and Maroni had the court room scene with Harvey Dent.

Maroni and Falcone both had scenes explaining their power. They aren't the focus of the story so you don't have to delve into that

Recognition doesn't mean they'll understand his character. You need some decent screen time for them to get in his head before they'll learn the basics.

A picture is worth a thousand words. A taller Philip Seymore Hoffman with a top hat, a cigarette and cigarette holder, maybe a monocle, tall and elegant tells the audience. This guy has class and NOT the same penguin you have seen before. Especially with how he talks and his mannerisms.

Which will make the audience not care what he does. The best villains are ones who are three dimensional, nor disposable plot devices.

That is why he isn't the star villain. Also Joker, Anton Chugar. 2d villains who are absolutes. They are hailed as some of the most dynamic villains ever. The list could go on.

In flashbacks or the Black Mask and Penguin war?

Neither Black Mask and Penguin won't go to war because they will be taken out before.

Would you have any scenes before it with their gangs fighting each other?

The news " The Gotham Gang was has escalated today with the bombing of the Iceberg Lounge blah blah show photos" or refer to an incident like the Iceberg bombing.

Which is unnecessary. Who else are they going to work for but the person with the biggest operation in Gotham?

People back the winning side.

Penguin or BM killing the other then absorbing the other's syndicate into their own would give them an instant monopoly on crime in Gotham. They don't need Batman's killed to do that.

I know thats why my story was half assed thought out. I am sure a reason could be discovered. Especially if you have Riddler manipulating all of them to seek his services so he could get the most money out of the situation.

You're going to spend 20 minutes just having Hugo and Riddler looking for Batman's identity? You could do a full movie on that plot with Batman playing cat and mouse with his pursuers.

Hugo will be looking for Batmans identity and you will see that. Riddler you won't he is controlling the scene in the end.

You don't need them competing to make that plot exciting, either.

see this is why I hate doing this. I am going to assume that this is a new topic..but no you spaced it.. so I am just going to comment on why I hate this format.

I understand that.

It's just with CW they really could give her a Harvey Dent sized role in a movie and make a compelling movie since her relationship with Batman is not a short story to tell.

Your movie could fill two hours on its own without her in it.

Catwoman could easily be the focus, especially if she is working both sides.

You're plot would have the villains taking over the movie.

You've got three sets of villains fighting over him.

Thats whats happening in the backdrop, not the focus of the movie. If you are following Batman and Bruce Wayne, with a few scenes implying great amounts of action then you got it.

With the proper execution they can be.

Updating, exploring stories which show them at their creative potential and the proper execution can do this. BM is far from being an unusable villain. He was even a villain in one of the drafts of TDK.

Yes, proper execution they can be but that means making a story about them as the focus. Non of them are as lethal as the Joker, or as threatening so you have to raise the stakes and put more at risk.

Depends on the story. You'll get an interesting BM or Penguin in a war against Batman or each other while CW works as an on again off again love interest.

We are going to assume this is the last movie. So a long term thing wouldn't work like that On again off again just takes a long time to establish.

 

[The Batkilt]

It'll rake in cash regardless. Most of the audience from TDK will come back.

I think it'll be a financial success, just not on the level of TDK. I don't think anyone would deny that Heath's passing put the anticipation of this film into overdrive, and that was a large reason for the film's financial success. Morbid, but true

A third film may very well retain a good percentage of it but looking at the numbers I can't see a third film getting anywhere near the box office total. Having said that I'd expect/hope it to have a similar level of financial success as the Spiderman films.

 

[[A]]

Riddler.. [BLACKOUT]and I wanna see Black Mask, but that doesn't count[/BLACKOUT]

 

[goh78]

With my own idea I wasn't intending for him to be turned into a pedophile. He'd genuinely believe he was in Wonderland and would be searching for Alice. Obviously to the general public of Gotham he'd come across as a pedophile but I guess it'd be Batman who would be the one not to buy that.

Having said that I agree that even my idea would be too close to pedophillia to get anywhere near a live action Batman film. It was just more an idea of how to adapt the character.

Sorry but this is just stupid. After the epic battle with the Joker in Dark Knight you would follow it up with Batman trying to stop a tiny guy who thinks he's in Alice in Wonderland....

batman: "YOURRRE NOT IN WONDERLAAAAAND"

 

[ScarecrowMan666]

The Mad Hatter could be made just as epic as Joker. Nolan has proven he can do that. Just because he's not the most popular villain doesn't mean ****. I love The Joker, but other villains are just as important in Batman's universe.

 

[The Batkilt]

Sorry but this is just stupid. After the epic battle with the Joker in Dark Knight you would follow it up with Batman trying to stop a tiny guy who thinks he's in Alice in Wonderland....

batman: "YOURRRE NOT IN WONDERLAAAAAND"

Jumping in with an insulting comment without reading the rest of a thread is stupid.

I'd also like a Gotham Knights style animated tie-in that'd show more of him getting to that stage. I think another animated feature would be a good idea as it'd allow for characters like The Mad Hatter, who aren't neccesarily great choices for a major role in a feature film, to appear. I'd prefer more of a plot driven film rather than segments though.

So no, I don't want The Mad Hatter to follow on from The Joker. I'd like to see him tackled in an animated film, with possibly a cameo in a live action flick (though the latter I'm not as bothered about). Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero as an example of the kind of animated film I'm referring to in terms of handling a story.

I've also already posted before that post that I think The Penguin, Catwoman and Black Mask are most likely to feature; that I think all the comments implying they won't and that The Riddler would be the lead villain could be the cast and director increasing speculation; and that I also think Deadshot could work in a minor role.

 

[ScarecrowMan666]

Although I don't think WB would do it, Anarky would be perfect for these movies, but seeing as how DC decided to become *******s and not put him in many of the comics anymore due to what he stands for, it probably won't happen. I can dream though can't I?

 

[The Batkilt]

I'm not feeling the love for Anarky. I've got the same eagerness to see him in any Batman film as most people do Robin. Ironically I'd actually like Robin to be used in a feature film again as long as the writers, director and actor handled the character with care. But yeah, not a fan of Anarky. It has been a while though since I've read a story featuring him so if anyone has a favourite story featuring him feel free to suggest it and I'll give him another try.

 

[ScarecrowMan666]

I'm not feeling the love for Anarky. I've got the same eagerness to see him in any Batman film as most people do Robin. Ironically I'd actually like Robin to be used in a feature film again as long as the writers, director and actor handled the character with care. But yeah, not a fan of Anarky. It has been a while though since I've read a story featuring him so if anyone has a favourite story featuring him feel free to suggest it and I'll give him another try.

Try the Anarky graphic novel...it's only about 7 bucks on ebay

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I forgot about Hatter. Although, like Firefly I only see him as a beginning-of-the-movie-villain. A first 5-20 minutes of the movie villain, then gets locked up, never to be seen again, or a quick cameo when we're touring the halls of Arkham. Just don't think he could be a strong stand-alone villain.

 

[jewing3]

^I'm glad someone mentioned him...I scanned through alot of this and didn't see Mad Hatter listed anywhere. I think Nolan could do wonders with him in a film. But yeah, he's probably not a leading villian

 

[TLGunfighter]

What about Zsasz? He actually made an appearance in Begins and escaped, this is the most likely villains thread right?

 

[[A]]

Zsasz, Zsasz.. where art thou..?