The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Who would be the best MJ?

[sl500jazz]

BTW, someone enlighten me. When/Where exactly has Webb stated that he is going for Ultimate MJ over 616 MJ?

I know that he has been inspired by Ultimate, but Gwen is clearly 616.

I think most people have been assuming that by the way that Shailene looks/the vibe she gives. But that would further add to the argument of why she is wrong for the part, if he is in fact trying to do more of a 616 MJ.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I don't think the studio just started negotiations with Woodley, I'm sure there were other actresses they spoke with as well, the same way it happened with Gwen. Woodley at the time happened to work in their favor.

This.

Just because they cast Shailene for the role doesn't mean they didn't have their eye on another actress or two. And there's the possibility that they wanted one of the other actresses more than Shailene but because of scheduling conflicts and what not, they weren't able to and had to 'settle' for Shailene. Not to detract from the decision to use Shailene but there are other possible factors. Take for example this new info provided by Avi Arad in a recent interview that they initially wanted Chris Cooper as Norman Osborn for SM1 but due to his other obligations they couldn't cast him.

 

[sl500jazz]

Just because they cast Shailene for the role doesn't mean they didn't have their eye on another actress or two. And there's the possibility that they wanted one of the other actresses more than Shailene but because of scheduling conflicts and what not, they weren't able to and had to 'settle' for Shailene. Not to detract from the decision to use Shailene but there are other possible factors. Take for example this new info provided by Avi Arad in a recent interview that they initially wanted Chris Cooper as Norman Osborn for SM1 but due to his other obligations they couldn't cast him.

Wow. That is actually a completely reasonable theory! It would explain why Webb didn't hesitate to cut Woodley's scenes, why they have been praising Woodley as an actress, and why they are uncertain about Woodley's return. Maybe Webb likes Shailene, but initially had someone else in mind for the role who was unavailable during the filming of TASM2. I never thought of it that way.

 

[Gianakin_]

I love how people complain that Shai doesn't look like classic MJ, but don't batter an eyelash when it comes to the Ultiamte approach to Electro and Rhino. Love it.

 

[spund]

I love how people complain that Shai doesn't look like classic MJ, but don't batter an eyelash when it comes to the Ultiamte approach to Electro and Rhino. Love it.

I can't speak for everybody, but here's my reasoning -

Electro's old costume looks kinda goofy and in my opinion doesn't really fit well into a modern movie. The new costume makes more sense for this version of Electro....he's supposed to be scary (at least that's what I'm guessing they're going for), and a corny green and yellow costume with a star mask doesn't exactly fit that.

Supermodel MJ from the classic comics to me is more interesting than ultimate MJ with the "girl next door" looks. I think her looks from the older comics have a big influence on her relationship with other characters, and I'd like to see that translated into a movie.

The producers of this movie are picking and choosing from the different Spidey incarnations, is it really a crime if fans pick and choose what they'd like to see in a movie?

 

[SpideyFan866]

This.

Just because they cast Shailene for the role doesn't mean they didn't have their eye on another actress or two. And there's the possibility that they wanted one of the other actresses more than Shailene but because of scheduling conflicts and what not, they weren't able to and had to 'settle' for Shailene. Not to detract from the decision to use Shailene but there are other possible factors. Take for example this new info provided by Avi Arad in a recent interview that they initially wanted Chris Cooper as Norman Osborn for SM1 but due to his other obligations they couldn't cast him.

Early reports from when she was cast last year specifically said that she, Shailene Woodley, was their first choice for MJ.

They may have considered others in case they couldn't get Woodley, but she was the first choice.

 

[sl500jazz]

I love how people complain that Shai doesn't look like classic MJ, but don't batter an eyelash when it comes to the Ultiamte approach to Electro and Rhino. Love it.

Honestly I could care less about which incarnation Webb chooses for Electro and Rhino, and I dare say that their Ultimate versions are better/more modern versions of their 616 counterparts.
But MJ is a character that is near and dear to my heart, and the 616 and ultimate versions don't even compare. 616 MJ was depicted horribly in the Raimi franchise, and I'm hoping for some major redemption with the reboot.

 

[sl500jazz]

Supermodel occupation aside, classic MJ is supposed to be the Ann Margret(the vamp) of the franchise in contrast to Gwen Stacy who is the franchise's Sandra Dee (the ingénue). This is the direction that I was hoping Webb would take with the characters since he gave us 616 Gwen. It's also something that wasn't explored in the Raimi franchise. They should have this type of contrast.

If Stone was cast as MJ and Woodley was cast as Gwen, we probably could have had that, but with Stone as Gwen and Woodley as MJ, it doesn't work. That's not to say that I dislike Shailene, just that I dislike the ultimate MJ direction and think that there are better choices for the character.

 

[Super Jim]

I love how people complain that Shai doesn't look like classic MJ, but don't batter an eyelash when it comes to the Ultiamte approach to Electro and Rhino. Love it.

The difference is this... The villains are most often seen in one flick and then we move on. Yes, if my whole Sinister Six concept pans out these villains (at least some) will be seen again, but generally villains are temporary, while main characters last...

More specifically to this fanchise, here is the difference:

Classic Electro is very campy as far as his costume. The whole pentagram electric bolt headress is, when you think about it, a bit bizaar. Worked pretty good for the comic, but on the big screen is would have been a joke. Now the Jamie Fox, blueish, with energy coursing through, will look really cool on screen, I think and from what has been shown so far. I still find it funny that when I made a joke a few months ago about him being some cross species thing with electric eels that it turned out to be, at least somewhat, correct. But generally I think his look is going to come off really good on screen.

Rhino is really a six of one, half a dozen of the other thing. I don't think it really matters 616 or ultimate. Whether it is radiation and chemical treatments with a permanently bonded armor = 616, or a stolen military suit = ultimate, or even if it turns out to be some cross species thing, it really doesn't matter. As long as he looks cool, has some form of armor or hide, with some form of horn at the top of his head, we're good.

But MJ (and Gwen) (and Spider-man) are very different. Once you choose to make one of these 616, which they have, then you are almost forced to go that route for the others. You can't have the girl next door Gwen and then the girl next door MJ. You can't have the book worm Gwen and then the book worm MJ. You need to have contrast and since they have already gone with 616 Gwen then they need to go with 616 MJ. Raimi's MJ was not done very well. We really need an out of Peter's league MJ with a heart of gold. She needs to be, and I know I'll get flamed for this, a drop dead amazingly gorgious bikini model or better yes, Victoria's Secret model, that some how Peter ended up with. Someone that the audience will be excited about Peter ending up with, which means her personality has to be fun, adventurous, and intelligent, not some bimbo. In a lot of ways the problem is Emma. She is so good that she causes all others to be compared to her and come up wanting. Again, you need contrast or the comparisons will become a problem.

One thing that bothers me is that at a minimum there should have been a cameo of MJ in TASM2. I'm not talking about a bunch of scenes with MJ and definitely not her working at some diner (stupid), but how about Gwen poking through some magazine and pointing out to Peter her high school or childhood friend who made the big time, who is now a NY model. Just a picture in a magazing or the actual actress (Alexis Knapp please) who will be MJ.

 

[spund]

^ Totally makes sense Super Jim, couldn't have explained it better myself. This should be a sticky to point people to when they come on here accusing people of being immature and sexist because we want the 616 version of MJ.

 

[spund]

I love how people complain that Shai doesn't look like classic MJ, but don't batter an eyelash when it comes to the Ultiamte approach to Electro and Rhino. Love it.

I love how people come on here attacking other peoples' opinions and imply untrue things, then other people reply with logic and reason. And then the attacker has nothing to say because his false implications were basically shot down. Love it.

 

[fuflipflops]

or maybe because it's been almost a year of this discussion and all of the "logical and reasonable" arguments come down to wanting mj to be hot so fanboys can have some eye candy to look at and arguing gets tiring when everyone is convinced they're right.

 

[spund]

or maybe because it's been almost a year of this discussion and all of the "logical and reasonable" arguments come down to wanting mj to be hot so fanboys can have some eye candy to look at and arguing gets tiring when everyone is convinced they're right.

Well I can definitely say that your implication of me and others only "wanting MJ to be hot so fanboys can have some eye candy to look" is NOT right.

It might be true of others, but not me, and like I keep saying, you need to quit lumping us all into that one group of immature haters that you seem to see ALL of us as.

I've been off the forum for a long time and just started posting again a couple months ago, so I haven't been debating this for a year.

It sounds like you've been having this debate for a year though, so my question is, why do you keep getting into it if you're so tired of discussing it?

If you want to have any kind of debate with substance, how about you go read Super Jim's last post and see if there's anything you disagree with. If so, then great, let's hear your thoughts on it.

But if you just keep coming back here to accuse us of only being drooling fanboys who just want eye candy, then you're being just as immature as you're accusing us of being.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Mew

 

[sl500jazz]

or maybe because it's been almost a year of this discussion and all of the "logical and reasonable" arguments come down to wanting mj to be hot so fanboys can have some eye candy to look at and arguing gets tiring when everyone is convinced they're right.

The thing is that's a really bold and unfair accusation to make. It's one thing to say that you disagree and like Shailene for the part, it's another thing to say that those who don't are just cavemen lusting for a hot actress.

To some extent I agree and disagree with Super Jim's comments. I agree that MJ and Gwen are a package deal. Their characters are foils for one another. If one is vanilla, the other has to be chocolate. If they went with Ultimate Gwen (tough, rough around the edges girl) I could see why they would do ultimate MJ. But they clearly went with the very sweet and intelligent girl next door 616 Gwen, so doing ultimate MJ wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. 616 MJ is the logical approach.

Now I disagree that MJ should be some generic Bikini model or Victoria Secret model. If they wanted to ditch the supermodel aspect of the character, I wouldn't care at all. - It’s not that important to the character.

However, looks are important when comparing MJ to Gwen Stacy. Especially. when girl next door Gwen is played by an actress known for having a lot of sex appeal.

Since they already did the very vanilla 616 Gwen, MJ needs to be spicier in looks and in personality. She is going to constantly be compared to Peter’s first love, and the only way that the audience will root for their relationship after Gwen dies is if she makes Emma Stone’s Gwen look very bland by comparison (not an easy thing for any actress to do) . MJ should be the Ann Margret to Stone’s Sandra Dee. It’s how it worked in the comics. If they are too much alike, MJ will just come across as a cheap knockoff of Gwen.

Now someone tell me, why is that not a valid argument?

Btw, if the studio ever casts 616 MJ, all they need to ask themselves is “Who would we cast to play Ann Margret?”, and that actress would be perfect for MJ. After all, Romita based MJ’s looks and personality off of her.

 

[spund]

^ When you come up with good reasoning like that, I really don't understand how people can keep coming back and just diminishing us all into "drooling fanboys".

I'm a guy, and yes I would be lying if I said I had zero interest in the "eye candy" aspect of MJ. The thing is though, there are deeper aspects to both MJ's personality AND her looks that play into who I think would be a good choice for the role.

If all I cared about was a pretty girl to look at, then sure, cast Shailene, she's gorgeous. But what all these accusers aren't getting is that we want a specific type of pretty girl to play MJ because it has a lot to do with her dynamic with the other characters. And Shailene's looks just don't fit that specific type in my opinion.

 

[scarredpencil]

they should really come up with an mj that no one would expect. not the girl next door. thats unbearably zzzzzzzz. not part time school celebrity/student/model/actress/football team drool object. zzzzzzzzzz. i wanna see a hot new indie wave sensation stogie chewing pierced and tatted punk rocker with a good right hook tank girl mj.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Early reports from when she was cast last year specifically said that she, Shailene Woodley, was their first choice for MJ.

They may have considered others in case they couldn't get Woodley, but she was the first choice.

In those early reports did they ever include the names of any other actresses that were on the prospect list?

 

[WarriorDreamer]

I think that seeing who Marc Webb is, not just as a director but somewhat as a person, that he will probably never include the bombshell 616 version. Just because I think, as a person he just doesn't like the character. It makes sense him wanting to tell the story of Peter Parker and having Gwen as a lead, but I just can't see him wanting to include MJ as a character. Then if he does, only wanting to include the Ultimate version of her, because he may find Mary Jane shallow or whatever. It is fine to me cutting back on her character, but to just make her the ultimate version I have a problem with. I mean cripes just give her a little confidence and free spirit.

 

[Majik1387]

Maybe Kirsten Dunst as MJ left a bad taste in his mouth where he wants little to nothing to do with her character.

 

[SpideyFan866]

In those early reports did they ever include the names of any other actresses that were on the prospect list?

Nope. Not one.

Just Shailene.

 

[SUP]

@majik1387,also have the same thought.
anyway guys,who from the 2 names i've choose could be the Perfect MJ : Mary-Elizabeth Winstead or Ophelia Lovibond ???

 

[Majik1387]

I still think they looked at othr actresses, but that list managed to stay hush hush. I mean, I'm sure other actresses were also looked at for Felicity Jones' character, as well as Harry, Electro, Rhino, etc. Some were probably more serious options ala Shailey.

 

[Super Jim]

One of the main issues with characters like these is that their professions play very much into who they are.

For example, Peter being a student who excels in science is a major part of who he is. His being a freelance photography plays very much into his story. Both of these aspects have already been explored to various degrees in Webb's movies.

Gwen being a student who excels in science has also been a major part of this series. Her being a top student, with Peter being right there too, has been integrated.

Now they can go a variety of ways for MJ, but again her profession needs to play into the story. In Raimi's version they has MJ as the popular high school girl dating the jock. This made her the girl who was out of Peter's league. Then he had her as the acress wannabe in New York, but she hadn't made it yet so she was working at the coffee shop. Fine, that's one way to go with her. But been there done that, and not well.

So how about we try a different route with MJ. Does she have to be a model? No, but that is the iconic version and would be a job that would play into the story and would put her way out of Peter's league.

The actress thing wasn't really good, and having her be some coffee shop waitress again would be boring.

So what kind of job could this new MJ have that would make sense for a 616 version MJ?

Obviously model is one, and the reason I said how about a Vickie's Secret model is because that would be very iconic, put her out of Peter's league, yet allow the story to show that she's so much more than just what people assume a lingerie model would be. Same if it was swimsuit instead of lingerie, doesn't matter.

So, what other jobs would make sense? I wouldn't want to see her working at Oscorp. I wouldn't want her to just be a receptionist, or in sales. I wouldn't want her to be a reporter (that would be too Lois Lane). To me it needs to be iconic and match her personality. I would love to see her as an adventurous type, possibly a bit of a party girl (in check). Model seems to match this type.

So what kind of job would you like to see Webb's MJ have and why?

 

[Loki882]

We don't know that she's not a model (some models have other jobs to make ends meet in between gigs). Shailene could pull off a model look (I've seen other photos of her).