The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Who would be the best MJ?

[Vid Electricz]

explain how she was used badly instead of just saying that.

That would be impossible as he has not (nor have any one of us) seen any finished footage, or indeed anything other than set pictures upon which to can base any evaluation.

But I suppose his answer will be something along the lines of: "From the set pictures alone you can see that she looks like the 'girl next door' and not the 'classic 616 bombshell', therefore it's all wrong".

 

[amazingly atiba]

That would be impossible as he has not (nor have any one of us) seen any finished footage, or indeed anything other than set pictures upon which to can base any evaluation.

But I suppose his answer will be something along the lines of: "From the set pictures alone you can see that she looks like the 'girl next door' and not the 'classic 616 bombshell', therefore it's all wrong".

exactly! its pretty ridiculous. now i totally see where you are coming from.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

I know people say Mary Jane is constantly drawn differently. Some things the same: round face, big, almond shaped eyes, small nose, full lips, dimples. All of these objectively speaking = Margot Robbie. So when people say she has the 'MJ look' they probably meant those features. She is set to star in a comedy with Will Smith, so her star may be on the up a bit and may reveal her to US audiences in the same way Teresa Palmer broke out as a US star.

 

[amazingly atiba]

I know people say Mary Jane is constantly drawn differently. Some things the same: round face, big, almond shaped eyes, small nose, full lips, dimples. All of these objectively speaking = Margot Robbie. So when people say she has the 'MJ look' they probably meant those features. She is set to star in a comedy with Will Smith, so her star may be on the up a bit and may reveal her to US audiences in the same way Teresa Palmer broke out as a US star.

i wasnt just talking about her in particular. it seems that every hot girl that is put on here has the "MJ look" i wasnt referring to Margot Robbie

 

[Vid Electricz]

I know people say Mary Jane is constantly drawn differently. Some things the same: round face, big, almond shaped eyes, small nose, full lips, dimples. All of these objectively speaking = Margot Robbie. So when people say she has the 'MJ look' they probably meant those features. She is set to star in a comedy with Will Smith, so her star may be on the up a bit and may reveal her to US audiences in the same way Teresa Palmer broke out as a US star.

Except that the features are hardly consistent from artist to artist. Even in the strip above, in some pictures she has small eyes, in others large and round. In some she has dimples and cleft chin, in others not. In some a round face, in some more triangular.

Even John Romita drew Gwen and MJ exactly the same (Oh look, MJ has a cleft chin ). Interchangeable and objectively/conventionally "beautiful". Just like every other female love interest in comics.

 

[sl500jazz]

notice how i was replying to the "ridiculous" comment re: vid's very much reasonable reply, and not to any poster in particular. you're not the only one posting pictures comparing them to the drawings, this entire thread is made out of posts like this. but getting so defensive is not exactly helping disprove my point.

Ok so you weren't directing the comment to me or my posts? Ok, my bad. Moving on...

very much this. ^ great. UNLESS you are implying that i am one of those people

Lol. No I wasn't referring to you at all. t:

I would be very happy with Margot Robbie! She would look the part so much more than :

Truth is Shai was used badly during filming of TASM2. IF they use her again, and personally I hope they do not because I never saw her as Mary Jane, even though she is honestly a pretty, girl next door actress, they need to do a better job!

I'm glad that you appreciate my casting choice (an I really do believe that Margot Robbie would be a good choice for this particular character), but c'mon that picture you posted of Shailene was just very unflattering. Everyone has taken some bad photos at some point in their lives, and I'm sure if you tried hard enough, you could find some unflattering pics of Robbie and Knapp as well.

That would be impossible as he has not (nor have any one of us) seen any finished footage, or indeed anything other than set pictures upon which to can base any evaluation.


But I suppose his answer will be something along the lines of: "From the set pictures alone you can see that she looks like the 'girl next door' and not the 'classic 616 bombshell', therefore it's all wrong".

Well...in a sense MJ was used "badly" is TASM2 as evidenced by the fact that Webb & Co. ultimately made the decision to throw out all of her scenes to accommodate Peter and Gwen's Relationship. That shouldn't have been a problem after spending time and money writing the script, casting an actress, and filming the scenes.

Lol Just kidding. I get what you are trying to say and I actually agree with this, no one can really jump to conclusions or say anything definitively (whether it be good or bad) about Shailene Woodley's Mary Jane because we have yet to see her performance of the character. She's talented (and although very unassuming) could end up blowing our socks off if given the chance. Or she could (although highly unlikely) end up being god awful in the role. I'll, just give Super Jim the benefit of the doubt though. Clearly when he said "used badly", he just meant that he disliked the way that Shailene was styled/dressed, and (although trivial) would be akin to fans expressing disapproval upon seeing the Spider-man starter suit used in TASM, Green Goblin's("power rangers") design in SM1, and the Lizard's("no snout, no labcoat") design.

I've seen on the other thread, posters debating the difference between a good "Spider-Man" film and just a good film, and the potential that the Webb franchise has to be better "Spider-Man" films (fully capturing the spirit of the characters and the comics) even if they do not surpass the ratings that SM2 currently holds (or had when it was first released). I think the same applies to Peter Parker, Mary Jane Watson, Gwen Stacy, J. Jonah Jameson, Aunt May, and most of the major supporting characters of the Spider-man mythos. For the most part, Raimi's portrayal of MJ has almost been universally panned by both fans and casual movie goers alike. Whoever ultimately takes on the role in the new franchise will have quite the job ahead of them, and I wish them the best of luck.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

i wasnt just talking about her in particular. it seems that every hot girl that is put on here has the "MJ look" i wasnt referring to Margot Robbie

Yeah some people do. I know if I post an actress it isn't just because she has the 'MJ look' but because I believe she could have a chance of making a good MJ based on prior work. She is drawn differently but it isn't hard to admit that Margot facially looks like the most famous iteration of the character. The John Romita version. Her face is objectively similar to that version.

 

[sl500jazz]

Except that the features are hardly consistent from artist to artist. Even in the strip above, in some pictures she has small eyes, in others large and round. In some she has dimples and cleft chin, in others not. In some a round face, in some more triangular.

Even John Romita drew Gwen and MJ exactly the same (Oh look, MJ has a cleft chin ). Interchangeable and objectively/conventionally "beautiful". Just like every other female love interest in comics.

Romita did draw gwen and MJ in a similar fashion (giving gwen the defined cheekbones and MJ the more rounded face wide smile and dimples, despite the fact that one was clearly characterized as a "bombshell" over the other) which is why I posted pictures that were drawn by different artists. Despite the variations in all of them, I thought that Robbie retained a stong likeness to all of them (they could easily pass for caricatures of her), but I don't even understand why this is being debated, I hadn't intended it for it to mean anything even remotely significant. Again atiba requested an actress that looked the part, and I said that I thought that Robbie did. Big deal. If you don't see the likeness or think that because MJ and Gwen look so much alike that she could easily pass for both characters: cool beans.

 

[amazingly atiba]

Yeah some people do. I know if I post an actress it isn't just because she has the 'MJ look' but because I believe she could have a chance of making a good MJ based on prior work. She is drawn differently but it isn't hard to admit that Margot facially looks like the most famous iteration of the character. The John Romita version. Her face is objectively similar to that version.

correct. alot of people just pick based on looks. having nothing to do with acting skills. so what they are really asking for is for a model that will give you a hard on in the theatre, who doesnt even look remotly like MJ with no acting skills whatsoever. lets see how these women would make the franchise look. im guessing really great because it will show in the box office

 

[WarriorDreamer]

Another thing that excites me about Margot, outside of her look is I can just imagine her being enthusiastic about the part of MJ and being in the franchise. Not to put Shailene down but she seemed just 'meh' about being in it. She did not talk about it for ages and then when asked why she chose the role comes up with the defualt actors comment of 'Um... well I really liked the way he can fly.' Bulls* she saw dollar signs and a chance to get her name in more countries than the US, just like KD did. She might put in a good performance in her first movie, but after she gets wind that Oscars are sniffing at her she'll see the materiel as beneath her because she's a 'serious actor' and she'll merely turn up to set, not live and own her part. Blah. I might just be being cynical here but Margot seems genuinely humble and gracious about the parts she gets. The other day Shailene basically said Secret Life was a pile of dung, which while she isn't wrong, she chose to be in that role and it still must have fans somewhere who may have been hurt. She is the kind of girl who sees something more flashier for her she will drop the other thing in a hot second. I don't know her, just my personal impression. I can see Margot being excited to be in this franchise and ready to have it her all every chance she gets. It doesn't matter how much people like or are excited by the part they are in, it doesn't dicate performance. But it just creates that much more buzz when you know the actor is excited to be in the part, just like Andrew was. Does it make them a better actor in their role? No. But it just creates a shine which you can't help but feel onscreen and what that is is the actor trying that much harder because of their respect for the materiel and their character.

Besides, if Shailene truely is becoming 'The next Jennifer Lawrence' then wouldn't she be filming her franchise year-by-year like every other modern day book franchise?

 

[amazingly atiba]

@sl500jazz. that last comment was not directed towards you pal.

 

[amazingly atiba]

Another thing that excites me about Margot, outside of her look is I can just imagine her being enthusiastic about the part of MJ and being in the franchise. Not to put Shailene down but she seemed just 'meh' about being in it. She did not talk about it for ages and then when asked why she chose the role comes up with the defualt actors comment of 'Um... well I really liked the way he can fly.' Bulls* she saw dollar signs and a chance to get her name in more countries than the US, just like KD did. She might put in a good performance in her first movie, but after she gets wind that Oscars are sniffing at her she'll see the materiel as beneath her because she's a 'serious actor' and she'll merely turn up to set, not live and own her part. Blah. I might just be being cynical here but Margot seems genuinely humble and gracious about the parts she gets. The other day Shailene basically said Secret Life was a pile of dung, which while she isn't wrong, she chose to be in that role and it still must have fans somewhere who may have been hurt. She is the kind of girl who sees something more flashier for her she will drop the other thing in a hot second. I don't know her, just my personal impression. I can see Margot being excited to be in this franchise and ready to have it her all every chance she gets.

Besides, if Shailene truely is becoming 'The next Jennifer Lawrence' then wouldn't she be filming her franchise year-by-year like every other modern day book franchise?

i agree with this statement very much. im also growing more fonder of Margot robbie in this franchise and would like to see it happen

 

[Super Jim]

explain how she was used badly instead of just saying that.

^

and:

and:

and:

and:

Nuff said!

 

[amazingly atiba]

^

and:

and:

and:

and:

Nuff said!

whats going to be said about those photos is that most of those photos were taken OFF SCREEN meaning they werent even filming her scene yet. she was taking a break or whatever you call it. the last pic is her walking to the set without makeup yet! how can you be so ridiculous? let me guess you want a model who cant act to huh? because your the main one. Nuff said!!!

 

[Super Jim]

No, I would like someone who looks the part AND can act. Guess what, there are a few out there that can do that you know.

Look, Shae is a pretty girl next door type and very talented. Just personally I don't want Mary Jane to be a girl next door type, which is what Gwen is. We need contrast. Maybe you disagree with that, and if so we can agree to disagree.

At the same time most of those pics were from on set. Only the last one was while heading to the set. It's not necessarily Shaelene that I don't like in those pics, it's the look the gave Mary Jane. I just don't think the hair is right, the clothes are right, the idea of her riding a motorcycle is right, etc. Mary Jane shouldn't be some grunge chick, which is what it seems they've made her. That's what I meant when I said they didn't use her right.

Could Shaelene be glam'd up to pull the part off? Yes, possibly. But there are others that could probably do it better. That's all I'm saying.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Truth is Shai was used badly during filming of TASM2. IF they use her again, and personally I hope they do not because I never saw her as Mary Jane, even though she is honestly a pretty, girl next door actress, they need to do a better job!

How was she used badly? How can you jump to this conclusion?

Have you watched the scenes she was in?

You've seen a cut of the film with those scenes still present?

If so, How did she look in the film? Up to par with fanboy ridiculous standards? Did she look better than Dunst?

How as her acting? Again, better than Dunst?



Huh? Huh? Huh?

HUH?

Answer me.

 

[Oscorp]

Funny, to me Shailene looks very hot in those pictures.

 

[amazingly atiba]

How was she used badly? How can you jump to this conclusion?

Have you watched the scenes she was in?

You've seen a cut of the film with those scenes still present?

If so, How did she look in the film? Up to par with fanboy ridiculous standards? Did she look better than Dunst?

How as her acting? Again, better than Dunst?



Huh? Huh? Huh?

HUH?

Answer me.

thank you good sir. someone who knows what they are talking about

 

[amazingly atiba]

Funny, to me Shailene looks very hot in those pictures.

me too. i like the way she looks in some of those pics

 

[JOE]

Red and blue (or turquoise) on garfield is awesome.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Funny, to me Shailene looks very hot in those pictures.

me too. i like the way she looks in some of those pics

NO NO NO! She doesn't look like teh bombshell! ALL WRONG!!!1!!

1st Raimi scrwed up teh charecter and now Webb to!!!

She need to look exactly like this @ all times:

 

[Oscorp]

Raimi did screw up MJ though :P IMO

 

[WarriorDreamer]

I would be very happy with Margot Robbie! She would look the part so much more than :

Funnily enough it was this scene that she apparently said the famous jackpot line to Peter. Do you think she pulled it off?

 

[fuflipflops]

doesn't peter call mj "the girl next door" several times over the years? if shailene fits the criteria (whatever that is) of a girl next door, what would be so bad about that, since it's literally canon, and lord knows some people are adamant about adaptations not straying too far from it?

 

[sl500jazz]

Oh Super Jim... Oh Vid... like two extremes when it comes to MJ...completely at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Don't even know what to say.

@ WarriorDreamer
Well, if they end up using her and she says the Jackpot line, I'm hoping/optimistic that she can do it justice. Although, if 616 MJ isn't what they were going for (and none of us really know for certain), I don't see the point of her using that line. Raimi got rid of it, and that made sense. It clearly wouldn't have worked with his version of the character.

doesn't peter call mj "the girl next door" several times over the years? if shailene fits the criteria (whatever that is) of a girl next door, what would be so bad about that, since it's literally canon, and lord knows some people are adamant about adaptations not straying too far from it?

Thought we were done discussing this, but I guess not. There's nothing wrong with "the girl next door".

However...

Mary Jane Watson (in the 616 universe) technically lived next door, but she isn't the "girl next door" in the traditional sense. Mary Jane living next door to Peter Parker was meant to be ironic/humorous. Aunt may tries to introduce him to the nice "girl next door", Peter gets the wrong impression, and when he finally meets her he is blown away because she is the complete antithesis of the "girl next door" in personality, looks, interests, relationships, occupation, etc.

The “girl next door” archetype has been recognized in modern culture for a century. You know the type: friendly, admirable, attractive, but not to the extent that she is an automatic object of desire. She’s typically bright, a bit of a tomboy, and often overlooked for a more, ahem, seductive female by male protagonists before they eventually come to their senses.

https://www.archetypes.com/timeline/hollywood-archetypes-girl-next-door

Peter came to his senses and chose Gwen over MJ. That is until the writers (Conway in particular) realized that MJ was a character that had potential for better storytelling, whereas they'd written themselves into a corner with Gwen. Eventually, the writers interwove the "bombshell party girl" characterization into MJ's insecurities and tumultuous childhood/adolescence , taking what (I could see under normal circumstances) would have been a flat/simple archetype created for the sake of some lighthearted teenage drama (ala Archie comics) and twisting it to build (imo) a fully developed 3-dimensional relatable character. Again, some (vocal) people like what they did with MJ's arc and some (equally vocal) people don't, but still it's very much apart of this particular character.

Imo, the way that the writers handled the Peter/MJ relationship in the 616 universe was great- slowly developed over the course of multiple decades. You can really see Peter and MJ growing, learning, and coming to terms with their own inner demons before they are able to commit, which I believe is why people tend to lean towards that version of the character in terms of a personal preference apart from having a firecracker personality and good looks. At least, that's the case for me. You can kind of see (if you squint) that Raimi was trying to go for that angle in his franchise (in very broad strokes), but IMO failed with the Pete/MJ relationship, creating a character that was just unlikable, unrelatable, nothing like the 616 version (apart from some VERY basic characteristics), and a relationship that was difficult for me and others to root for. He took many liberties with the relationship, and (again imo), they didn't pay off.

616 aside, the ultimate Mary Jane Watson fits more of the "girl next door" mold. So, I suppose it's canon in the ultimate universe.