The Avengers "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be Hemsworthy, shall possess the power of Thor" - Part 2

[Godzilla2000]

It's not character regressing it's reacting in a reasonable way, you don't seem to understand that Loki is now FULL BLOWN PSHYCHO!

If anyone's regressed it's Loki, I know Loki's your favorite and all but c'mon he clearly gets what he deserves.

I don't think with Loki it's about character regression but the genesis of his mental illness. I think the descent of Loki's sanity slipped the moment he found out his true heritage in Odin's vault. Something just snapped within his mind and he just lost his grasp on logic in that moment. The genocide of the Frost Giants was just the start of his ruthless turn. I have a feeling Loki is going to be responsible for a lot of deaths on Earth and that's surely going to displease Odin a lot. But yet I can't help but feel that Loki is mentally ill and his self imposed exile did nothing to help his condition. I'm almost quite certain Loki has been the victim of many traumas that exacerbated his psychoses. I just feel bad for Thor caught up in the middle of it all, wanting what's best for his brother given his unstable condition, and I know at the end of Thor he knew there was something very wrong with Loki, but he also has to deal with his father, whom I think has taken on more than he can handle with Loki. Odin is a warrior first and foremost, but he's quite ill equipped to deal with the mental maladies Loki suffers from. Imagine having to deal with a stubborn strong willed father and a brother who suffers from an extreme case of lunacy. The father is going to be inclined to punish Loki but Thor knows that's only going to make things worse and just wants to find a way to heal his brother without further corroding Loki's sanity. At least I'm hoping that's what Thor would do.

Spoiler

I mean instead of killing Loki he did take him back to Asgard, right?

 

[Rock Sexton]

I don't think with Loki it's about character regression but the genesis of his mental illness. I think the descent of Loki's sanity slipped the moment he found out his true heritage in Odin's vault. Something just snapped within his mind and he just lost his grasp on logic in that moment. The genocide of the Frost Giants was just the start of his ruthless turn. I have a feeling Loki is going to be responsible for a lot of deaths on Earth and that's surely going to displease Odin a lot. But yet I can't help but feel that Loki is mentally ill and his self imposed exile did nothing to help his condition. I'm almost quite certain Loki has been the victim of many traumas that exacerbated his psychoses. I just feel bad for Thor caught up in the middle of it all, wanting what's best for his brother given his unstable condition, and I know at the end of Thor he knew there was something very wrong with Loki, but he also has to deal with his father, whom I think has taken on more than he can handle with Loki. Odin is a warrior first and foremost, but he's quite ill equipped to deal with the mental maladies Loki suffers from. Imagine having to deal with a stubborn strong willed father and a brother who suffers from an extreme case of lunacy. The father is going to be inclined to punish Loki but Thor knows that's only going to make things worse and just wants to find a way to heal his brother without further corroding Loki's sanity. At least I'm hoping that's what Thor would do.

Spoiler

I mean instead of killing Loki he did take him back to Asgard, right?

I really love how they depicted

Spoiler

Thor after he busted Loki free and was talking to him on the mountain top. He had his hand up to Loki's face touching it as though he deeply missed his brother, but at the same time clenching it .... as if ready to squash it like a bug as Loki continued to verbally resist. Hemsworth really showed the duality of the moment for Thor.

 

[catgirl18]

I really love how they depicted

Spoiler

Thor after he busted Loki free and was talking to him on the mountain top. He had his hand up to Loki's face touching it as though he deeply missed his brother, but at the same time clenching it .... as if ready to squash it like a bug as Loki continued to verbally resist. Hemsworth really showed the duality of the moment for Thor.

Spoiler

The movie has disappointed me in this part There’s no real good brotherly love scene,all my friends were also disappointed.They thought Thor is better than that. That was really low of thor That's the reason why Loki thinks THOR does not love him .

 

[flickchick85]

Spoiler

The movie has disappointed me in this part There’s no real good brotherly love scene,all my friends were also disappointed.They thought Thor is better than that. That was really low of thor That's the reason why Loki thinks THOR does not love him .

Were you expecting them to hug it out?

Spoiler

Loki clearly doesn't care if Thor loves him. He sees Thor's sentimentality as a weakness. LOKI IS A MASS-MURDERING PSYCHOPATH yet Thor still tried to appeal to his humanity, even at the end. There was nothing better Thor could do.

 

[catgirl18]

Were you expecting them to hug it out?

Spoiler

Loki clearly doesn't care if Thor loves him. He sees Thor's sentimentality as a weakness. LOKI IS A MASS-MURDERING PSYCHOPATH yet Thor still tried to appeal to his humanity, even at the end. There was nothing better Thor could do.

Spoiler

my friends and I we were all disappointed. The end was not as great as we thought. I hope Thor 2 is better .

 

[Godzilla2000]

I really love how they depicted

Spoiler

Thor after he busted Loki free and was talking to him on the mountain top. He had his hand up to Loki's face touching it as though he deeply missed his brother, but at the same time clenching it .... as if ready to squash it like a bug as Loki continued to verbally resist. Hemsworth really showed the duality of the moment for Thor.

You know, in Thor 2 it would be nice to see some emotional fallout in light of the events in the Avengers where Thor's pain at seeing Loki slipping into insanity is shown, maybe have Thor confide in Jane. I've stated this before but with Loki it would be like living with an addict. I'm sure Thor still has brotherly love for Loki as you stated about that scene, but the pain at seeing the man you've treated as a blood relation turning into a stark raving mad, murderous monster must be enormous, and doubly so in Thor's case since he is sworn to protect the nine realms from threats, even if it's coming from a man he considers part of his family.

 

[BigThor]

Alright, catgirl is seriously starting to get on my nerves by failing to understand something's that been explained over and over.

 

[Godzilla2000]

Alright, catgirl is seriously starting to get on my nerves by failing to understand something's that been explained over and over.

Well, like I said in the Loki thread, I think what's happening here is that we're confusing our fondness for Tom Hiddleston with the character of Loki. What Loki commits in the Avengers is horrible and a moment of anger from Thor is definitely warranted because though he might not display it outwardly Thor is being put through an emotional ringer by Loki.

 

[BigThor]

Well, like I said in the Loki thread, I think what's happening here is that we're confusing our fondness for Tom Hiddleston with the character of Loki. What Loki commits in the Avengers is horrible and a moment of anger from Thor is definitely warranted because though he might not display it outwardly Thor is being put through an emotional ringer by Loki.

I know, but how in the hell can you feel bad for Thor kicking Loki's ass after he's killed HUNDREDS of people?

Thor is my superhero of all time, but if he ever kills hundreds of innocent people you can bet your ass I'll be rooting for whoever gives him a beatdown.

 

[Godzilla2000]

I know, but how in the hell can you feel bad for Thor kicking Loki's ass after he's killed HUNDREDS of people?

Thor is my superhero of all time, but if he ever kills hundreds of innocent people you can bet your ass I'll be rooting for whoever gives him a beatdown.

I actually sympathize a lot with Thor because he has to be a protector of the innocent and try to reason with an insane brother. I myself have mixed feelings concerning what I'm hearing about Loki. Yes, killing hundreds of people is bad, but it's almost like being in love with the character, albeit concerning Loki it would be quite an abusive relationship. You're horrified by what he's done yet you understand the motivations behind his actions while not condoning them. Loki is a tragic villain in that he's spiritually and emotionally directionless. I tend to keep thinking "If only Odin had been honest with him about who he was and what he had striven for Loki to be from the start instead of giving Loki a false sense of hope for the Asgardian throne." etc. etc. maybe Loki would have kept a sense of honor. But decisions were made that lead to Loki's downfall and though you hope for redemption you know that false glimmer of hope won't last because Loki was destined to be Asgard's bane. I think it's that sense of loss at Loki's potential that has fangirls upset, as it's a natural reaction in real life when a person chooses the path Loki has chosen. While I think Loki's punishment at the hands of Thor will be justified, I'm also thinking in my head that I wish Loki would trust his brother for once like he had in the past. It's very clear that Loki needs some kind of Asgardian psychological help because not only is he a threat to others but he's especially a threat to himself as it's clear his decision making facilities are damaged.

 

[flickchick85]

I actually sympathize a lot with Thor because he has to be a protector of the innocent and try to reason with an insane brother. I myself have mixed feelings concerning what I'm hearing about Loki. Yes, killing hundreds of people is bad, but it's almost like being in love with the character, albeit concerning Loki it would be quite an abusive relationship. You're horrified by what he's done yet you understand the motivations behind his actions while not condoning them. Loki is a tragic villain in that he's spiritually and emotionally directionless. I tend to keep thinking "If only Odin had been honest with him about who he was and what he had striven for Loki to be from the start instead of giving Loki a false sense of hope for the Asgardian throne." etc. etc. maybe Loki would have kept a sense of honor. But decisions were made that lead to Loki's downfall and though you hope for redemption you know that false glimmer of hope won't last because Loki was destined to be Asgard's bane. I think it's that sense of loss at Loki's potential that has fangirls upset, as it's a natural reaction in real life when a person chooses the path Loki has chosen. While I think Loki's punishment at the hands of Thor will be justified, I'm also thinking in my head that I wish Loki would trust his brother for once like he had in the past. It's very clear that Loki needs some kind of Asgardian psychological help because not only is he a threat to others but he's especially a threat to himself as it's clear his decision making facilities are damaged.

I never got the impression he ever trusted Thor. From the very first time we met them, Loki was already manipulating Thor. I feel like people are projecting some kind of sweet backstory onto the brothers that never really existed, just because of one look of excitement they exchanged when they were kids. But Loki clearly grew up being jealous of Thor, in a stronger, more malicious way than most little brothers are jealous of their older siblings. There was never much of a feeling of trust between them, imo. Branagh's film gave me the impression that Loki simply never had a high opinion of Thor in general.

 

[BigThor]

I actually sympathize a lot with Thor because he has to be a protector of the innocent and try to reason with an insane brother. I myself have mixed feelings concerning what I'm hearing about Loki. Yes, killing hundreds of people is bad, but it's almost like being in love with the character, albeit concerning Loki it would be quite an abusive relationship. You're horrified by what he's done yet you understand the motivations behind his actions while not condoning them. Loki is a tragic villain in that he's spiritually and emotionally directionless. I tend to keep thinking "If only Odin had been honest with him about who he was and what he had striven for Loki to be from the start instead of giving Loki a false sense of hope for the Asgardian throne." etc. etc. maybe Loki would have kept a sense of honor. But decisions were made that lead to Loki's downfall and though you hope for redemption you know that false glimmer of hope won't last because Loki was destined to be Asgard's bane. I think it's that sense of loss at Loki's potential that has fangirls upset, as it's a natural reaction in real life when a person chooses the path Loki has chosen. While I think Loki's punishment at the hands of Thor will be justified, I'm also thinking in my head that I wish Loki would trust his brother for once like he had in the past. It's very clear that Loki needs some kind of Asgardian psychological help because not only is he a threat to others but he's especially a threat to himself as it's clear his decision making facilities are damaged.

Yeah I see what you're saying, I can't understand any reason for him to kill hundreds of people though I don't care how much he's been looked over or lied too.

I know this sounds a bit harsh, but after all Loki has done in THOR & TA I really wouldn't feel bad if he dies in THOR III.

 

[jaqua99]

Spoiler

my friends and I we were all disappointed. The end was not as great as we thought. I hope Thor 2 is better .

Its not a brotherly love story. In all honesty, if this happened, it would partially ruin it. It really would. It would make comic book fans go, what?


Your post kinda made me, grrr. Get past Tom. Yeah yeah he is adorable. But he is playing Loki. There is nothing good coming out of this so stop being, well, whatever it is you are being.

Look. Loki is evil. One of the most evil characters in all of Marvel Comics. He is fueled by his hatred towards Thor. Them hugging it out would be disastrous to Loki's character. You gotta put your, girlyness aside lol and think of it from a character's point of view. A good 70 to 80% of people would have been dissappointed if it happened the way you wanted it to.

 

[BigThor]

Its not a brotherly love story. In all honesty, if this happened, it would partially ruin it. It really would. It would make comic book fans go, what?

Look. Loki is evil. One of the most evil characters in all of Marvel Comics. He is fueled by his hatred towards Thor. Them hugging it out would be disastrous to Loki's character. You gotta put your, girlyness aside lol and think of it from a character's point of view. A good 70 to 80% of people would have been dissappointed if it happened the way you wanted it to.

Agreed on all counts

 

[jaqua99]

Alright, catgirl is seriously starting to get on my nerves by failing to understand something's that been explained over and over.

Oh my god I know

 

[jaqua99]

Yeah I see what you're saying, I can't understand any reason for him to kill hundreds of people though I don't care how much he's been looked over or lied too.

I know this sounds a bit harsh, but after all Loki has done in THOR & TA I really wouldn't feel bad if he dies in THOR III.

I would, I really really hope he doesn't at all. In the comics, he dies, he comes back, he dies, he comes back. He is so advanced in sorcery that he physically can't die. I hope keeping him alive throughout all of it will show is mastery and evil psychoticness.

 

[Godzilla2000]

I never got the impression he ever trusted Thor. From the very first time we met them, Loki was already manipulating Thor. I feel like people are projecting some kind of sweet backstory onto the brothers that never really existed, just because of one look of excitement they exchanged when they were kids. But Loki clearly grew up being jealous of Thor, in a stronger, more malicious way than most little brothers are jealous of their older siblings. There was never much of a feeling of trust between them, imo.

I don't know, maybe it has something to do with that deleted scene before Thor's aborted coronation, but there was a brotherly love between the two. I don't think it's as cut and dried as you put it, that Loki absolutely hated his brother from the start. They're just two different individuals, Thor being the charismatic, extroverted type and Loki being the more intellectual introverted type. I think the biggest mistake would be Odin treating Loki as an Asgardian when he clearly was not. It's rather obvious that Loki more of a strategic thinker as opposed to an expert in physical combat and it's that quality I believe that wasn't acknowledged by Odin. I think making the two of them competitive in an Asgardian way is what planted the seeds of jealousy in Loki. Odin really should have taken into consideration Loki's own lineage as well and the bits of their genetics that he inherited from Laufey and Farbauti. If certain small alterations in the way Loki was parented would have been implemented I think Loki would have been a happier individual. If Odin had told him as a child that he was a Frost Giant and he wanted him to become the King of Jotunheim so that he and Asgard could remain allies Loki wouldn't feel a sense of not inheriting anything and just being a trophy prop.

Yeah I see what you're saying, I can't understand any reason for him to kill hundreds of people though I don't care how much he's been looked over or lied too.

I know this sounds a bit harsh, but after all Loki has done in THOR & TA I really wouldn't feel bad if he dies in THOR III.

I think you may be premature in your assessment as we have yet to see what has been devised for Loki in Thor 2. Maybe we will see Loki showing some remorse for what he has done and just all around wrestling with who he was and who he's become. A very good character to compare Loki to might be Gollum from Lord of the Rings. Smeagol was a mischief maker like Loki and because of the influence of the One Ring he murdered Deagol, but yet when Frodo had taken him as his guide, despite the horrible things he'd done in the past we as the audience still felt sympathy for him as the two personalities, the scared, guilty side and the ruthless, hateful, murderous side were battling with one another to be the dominant personality. I think such an approach would be rather interesting to apply to Loki and I think that Tom could handle such a demanding dichotomy of personality to make us sympathize with him again. I mean just picture yourself as Loki having to deal with an unimaginable guilt, not knowing what to do to make things right. You'd desperately be searching for someone to help you deal with so many confusing thoughts and half remembered traumas but finding no one to help you regain the semblance of normalcy you used to have. On top of all that you're basically the son of the enemy living among people that would hate you even if you hadn't acted out in aggression and made people suffer just because you're a Frost Giant. Think of being in a world where you have no one to relate to at all and you're all alone because of how different you are. I think these thoughts are why I feel bad for Loki and am crestfallen about what he's becoming.

 

[jaqua99]

I don't know, maybe it has something to do with that deleted scene before Thor's aborted coronation, but there was a brotherly love between the two. I don't think it's as cut and dried as you put it, that Loki absolutely hated his brother from the start. They're just two different individuals, Thor being the charismatic, extroverted type and Loki being the more intellectual introverted type. I think the biggest mistake would be Odin treating Loki as an Asgardian when he clearly was not. It's rather obvious that Loki more of a strategic thinker as opposed to an expert in physical combat and it's that quality I believe that wasn't acknowledged by Odin. I think making the two of them competitive in an Asgardian way is what planted the seeds of jealousy in Loki. Odin really should have taken into consideration Loki's own lineage as well and the bits of their genetics that he inherited from Laufey and Farbauti. If certain small alterations in the way Loki was parented would have been implemented I think Loki would have been a happier individual. If Odin had told him as a child that he was a Frost Giant and he wanted him to become the King of Jotunheim so that he and Asgard could remain allies Loki wouldn't feel a sense of not inheriting anything and just being a trophy prop.

See now this is the hard part. Is Loki's evil in the MCU based off his comic book version? That is the big issue here. Because if it is not, it is really all speculation. there is no indication of either. However, if it is based off the comic book version, then Loki hated Thor right from the beginning I believe. He was up to his mischievous ways all along, plotting and scheming. If this is the case for his character in the MCU, then obviously your thoughts on Loki's hatred would be incorrect. It could be said that the so shown brotherly love going on in the deleted scene could just be Loki tricking Thor some more. After all, right after that, he "ruined his brother's big day", so its a tossup.

All that aside, its really a tossup. Since we can't be so certain, I think we are all saying his hatred has always been there because thats what we want. In the comics, thats how it is, and its SO important to his character. Since we don't know when the hatred started in the movie, I think we are by default, going with what it was like in the comics, because thats what we want, cause that is how Loki is. If it is not stated that his hatred wasn't always there, why should we assume it is? And I will stand by that as well.

Get the point I am trying to get across?

 

[catgirl18]

Oh my god I know

– "Why are you all so aggressive?"
-You are all grown up - and you're just offended .

 

[BigThor]

I would, I really really hope he doesn't at all. In the comics, he dies, he comes back, he dies, he comes back. He is so advanced in sorcery that he physically can't die. I hope keeping him alive throughout all of it will show is mastery and evil psychoticness.

Yeah that's true but they won't have time for all of that in the films, plus I'm not really a fan of Kid Loki and I downrighted hated him becoming a woman.

– "Why are you all so aggressive?"
-You are all grown up - and you're just offended .

Look at your post, then look at the responses to your post THEN look at how you continue to ignore everything they point out.

 

[jaqua99]

– "Why are you all so aggressive?"
-You are all grown up - and you're just offended .

Right here, I am done talking to you, or about you. All I gotta say to that.

 

[jaqua99]

Yeah that's true but they won't have time for all of that in the films, plus I'm not really a fan of Kid Loki and I downrighted hated him becoming a woman.

No no haha. I was just stating examples. All I meant is that I think they shouldn't kill him just because it would make him seem more well, I don't know the word haha. But It can kind of lead us into thinking, we will never really see an end to him.

After all, look at the season finale of season 1 A:EMG Loki " I will NEVER give up!!!" just psychotic. Oh, and my favorite line. "You could destroy the 9 realms!" "SO BE IT!"

Also, don't waste your time with Catgirl. She is most likely a young kid. Reminds me ALOT of when my cousin was 14 and she cluelessly insisted that the Jonas Brothers were going to be as big as the beatles. Its just the girly crush in her talking, as CatGirl probably isn't thinking fully in perspective, and probably knows nothing about Loki, outside of what the films show.

 

[BigThor]

No no haha. I was just stating examples. All I meant is that I think they shouldn't kill him just because it would make him seem more well, I don't know the word haha. But It can kind of lead us into thinking, we will never really see an end to him.

After all, look at the season finale of season 1 A:EMG Loki " I will NEVER give up!!!" just psychotic. Oh, and my favorite line. "You could destroy the 9 realms!" "SO BE IT!"

I see what you're saying, but Loki dying towards the end of THOR III could be an intense emotional scene causing Thor to battle with the fury of an fully unleashed God of Thunder.

 

[jaqua99]

I see what you're saying, but Loki dying towards the end of THOR III could be an intense emotional scene causing Thor to battle with the fury of an fully unleashed God of Thunder.

Hmm very true. I do think it would be interesting to see a film franchise where the villian does make it through, or something we haven't seen before.

Hell, when Thanos comes into the picture, I wanna see not a worldly threat, but a Galactic level threat.

I want these movies to be like..woah!

gahh

 

[Godzilla2000]

See now this is the hard part. Is Loki's evil in the MCU based off his comic book version?

I believe MCU Loki isn't based 100% on anything in the comics, but more a few inspirations and Tom's own input on how to make the character more relate-able. I believe in an interview Tom had said that as far as the comics he drew from various incarnations of Loki, including kid Loki. I think that Whedon's Loki is the closest to the comics as he is to date.