Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

[Webhead2006]

I hope film would be 2hrs minium, 2hr 20mins max. I think that would be a great length of time to explain things and get a good action down too. Now as for how any reboot should takle the whole krypton/smallville days/ metropolis presuit-superman time. I dont really know which would be the best way to go yet. Each way has their positive and negative reasons to go about with them.

Who ever writes the film if/when another does happen. They should look at all angles and see which would make the overall story/theme of the film work out the best. I am game for straight krypton-smallville-metropolis, TIH opening credits with flashbacks during the film, flashbacks intermixed with present day scenes, etc... As i said before any reboot-reimaging superman film needs to have origins in some way. I would want to have new take-look at things and see why this superman will be different then donner's, STAS, Lois and clark, smallville, etc.... takes.

 

[The Guard]

David,

You seem to think that 30 minutes is enough to get us into "Superman". I can almost see that, but I really think it needs to be more, at least 45 minutes or so. The movie would have to be somewhere in the two hour range, or it would feel rushed.

How would you do it, though, touch on this or that, and then have Superman already existing in Metropolis? That could work.

Can you break it down into exactly what we'd see?

10 minutes on Krypton gives us what, exactly? I mean, I can kind of see it, as I think both the SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE and JJ Abrams SUPERMAN Krypton sequences were about 10 minutes long.

What would we see in five minutes in Smallville?

Why 12 minutes of world travels, and what would we see?

What would 3 minutes in Metropolis accomplish?

Can you link me to that Jor-El/Krypton treatment?

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I find most of Dave’s opinions well thought out an well reasoned.

As an interesting side note, I think based on the votes, there actually IS support for showing the origin in the movie.

If that means that a 30 minute origin would make an otherwise 120 minute movie into a 150 minute movie, so be it.

 

[Webhead2006]

with the right story telling and good pacing it shouldnt matter how long the origin really is. Though it should be a reasonable time not to long not to short.

 

[Indrid Cold]

it's a waste of time. That's why. We're all waiting for a real Superman movie. The origin movie, by the basic concept, wastes atleast 1/2 of a 2 hour movie, on defining Krypton, then Smallville and growing up. That only leaves 1 hour for the Superman (ie. the central plot of the movie, the mystery, and the actual supermanage).




So IMO, if they had to do a reboot with an origin, I would go the route of Kal'el not knowing his true origin. The movie would begin with the crash in Kansas, eliminating Krypton from the opening of the 1/2 of the film. The narrative of the movie would follow Clark growing up and wondering who and what he is. As he moves to metropolis (within 15 minutes of the beginning of the film) he would slowly peice together his origin, with the movie ending with him entering the FOS for the first time as a cliffhanger(without meeting Jor'el or anybody from his past, that would be saved for the sequel).

simply put, the mystery of the movie would be 'who/what is superman?'

I offer two routes for a potential origin telling in the next film. Option A, could be a montage of images showing his origin from krypton ala watchmen in the opening credits. Option B could be a montage of comic images showing his origins as illustrated by artists throughout the ages, as the opening sequence set against a musical score.

 

[GreenKToo]

I wouldnt mind an origin and showing Krypton *IF* they showed a Krypton that was similar to what we saw in the animated series.
I'd like to see a Krypton with cities similar to coruscant. Mile high towers with small and large ships zipping here and there.
If they have the technology to send a ship for who knows high many light years, then no telling what their cities would look like.

Also, I liked to see a younger Jor-el. Jim Caviezel maybe?

 

[Webhead2006]

I agree would love to have a younger looking jorel/lara, a crazy high tech world for krypton and other new looks for things. What about smallville? would you like it to be that tiny small town look with say only a couple hundred folks, or those small towns with a couple thousand people in them?

 

[afan]

I wouldnt mind an origin and showing Krypton *IF* they showed a Krypton that was similar to what we saw in the animated series.
I'd like to see a Krypton with cities similar to coruscant. Mile high towers with small and large ships zipping here and there.
If they have the technology to send a ship for who knows high many light years, then no telling what their cities would look like.

Also, I liked to see a younger Jor-el. Jim Caviezel maybe?

Ahh but isn't that the conundrum of Krypton?



If the civilization possesses a technology that defies the barriers of light speed; why are they not proliferating off world? Why is Kal-el the only "survivor". Why, given the boon of "godhood" upon Kryptonians under a yellow sun, do they still live on a planet with a red sun?

Perhaps that's why Krypton is always short changed.

Would an origin film that encompasses Krypton's culture, civilization, and technology need to deal in detail with these questions?

 

[nocomics]

I don't see the need to redo the origin part I think everyone knows where Superman came from and his whole little story...Though I wouldn't be opposed to do something like Watchmen and others is by showing flashbacks at certain points of the movie....Also,I'd like to see a 'darker' superman movie,more grit,action emotion(even if its hate/anger) from superman;which I thought they showed some of that in SR.
Really I just want a balls to the wall slugfest and superman actually using his wits not just his brawn....I want DOOMSDAY/Death of Superman movie,and to make it more climatic is when he is perceived dead they show other superheros mourn him(cameos) etc....

 

[LexLuthor]

I would set up the new movie as project of both animation and live action, similar to Animatrix and the following Matrix movies. They could cover life on Krypton with the El’s via animation and end it with them sending off baby Kal to Earth. They could promote it as a prequel of sorts…before the live action movie. At the beginning of the live action movie, they can start it off with the last 15 or so minutes of the animated feature translated into live action. And once the DVD comes out, they can feature the animated “Krypton” feature as a part of the DVD as “suggested watching”, with a special feature of montages of origin tales from the comics.
This way, they can focus on the soul of the movie, and really develop the movie from the upbringing in Smallville, where Clark learned the principles of being a good man from his father and mother. It doesn’t have to be a long, drawn out Smallville section of the movie, but “moments of lessons” that show why Clark became the man he did. There is a movie called Made in Heaven starring Hutton McGillis which is a story about 2 people who fell in love in Heaven, and were sent back to Earth, reborn, without knowledge of each other where they had to find each other before their 30th birthdays. They showed the couple from child birth to adults featuring moments of growth and lessons. It would be a great way to show Clark growing up and developing his powers. The montage can also show him during his world travels with is final stop in the arctic.
Just my take on a possible origin movie/reboot.

 

[GreenKToo]

Ahh but isn't that the conundrum of Krypton?



If the civilization possesses a technology that defies the barriers of light speed; why are they not proliferating off world? Why is Kal-el the only "survivor". Why, given the boon of "godhood" upon Kryptonians under a yellow sun, do they still live on a planet with a red sun?

Perhaps that's why Krypton is always short changed.

Would an origin film that encompasses Krypton's culture, civilization, and technology need to deal in detail with these questions?

I had a little idea about that but most wouldnt like it...It's Just a little what if that would bring in a well known villain for later films..


If I did the origin, I would do just what you suggested.
I'd have the people of Krypton be related to the people on new genesis and also the ones on Apolkolips, even though they have no contact with Apokolips because their a very warlike people.

Brainiac would be the cause of Kryptons destruction. Scientists from krypton and new genesis in co-operation created Brainiac.
Without their knowlege, Darkseid secretly sabotaged the project during construction so that when the time was right, he could controll Brainiac.

Fast forward dozens of years later. Brainiac is fully intergrated into planet krypton, he even controlls the weather itself.
He runs everything. No one wants for anything. Its a utopia.

Darkseid chooses this moment to activate his virus. Brainaic sets in motion events to destroy krypton by using the planet itself...mild quakes start at first, then tidal waves, then haywire weather.
Jor-el sees what is happening, goes to the council, but is ridiculed. He finally gives up after numerous tries and decides to at least save his son...

Like I said, most wont like the connection to New Genesis and Apolkolips.

 

[The Guard]

I see where you're going with that, and I don't hate it, but I much prefer the simpler concept that the Kryptonians are just so advanced and so damn full of themselves that they don't think nature is in control anymore. That seems needlessly complicated for Darkseid, who one imagines would prefer just to blow **** up until he gets what he wants.

I know, I know, JLanimated did something similar where Darkseid tried to get control of Braniac.

 

[Webhead2006]

interesting ideas green and guard. They could also go the route maybe the kryptonians stoped using space travel for awhile due to conflicts with other species out there. So it was prohibited to use.

Also i get alot of folks dont want to see an origin again even for a new film series. Since majority of folks know the basics of superman origins. Then fans wanting to get straight into the thick of things. But like i said before i would hate if the new series didnt have any origin and stated in the middle of a fight and we never got to know why this fight happened, how this guy became that way, and same goes for superman himself.

With doing an origin again we can go into a whole new story on krypton and why it blew up, a new take on jorel/lara(their families) and leave open aspects to be used later like zod/kara and maybe hint towards things like darseid and all that.

I said it before i do love donner's film and his origin for superman. But that is a 30 year old take on things, and stories and other mediums have done different origins and i would like to see that too for new film. Also doing that will be another factor in showing folks this is a new direction, new beginins and all that.

 

[hulk24]

I Think the movie should start off with him fighting a villian and superman getting his ass kicked or so it looks like but have him get hit it sends him flying and he crashes into the entire city and lands and it flashes to him hearing jor-el say something like They are your people now my son protect them and watch over them,and lara and jor-el both say we will be with you in your heart. Have him land and the kent's find him Then him using his powers on the farm flying while plowing the field heat vision to burn the dried grass etc. Have pa kent tell him his greatest power is his heart and then Him making the suit from the ship. Have him arrive to metropolis and meet everyone and build up to him looking like hes getting his ass whooped and have the villian say something like Your heart is your weekness, and i have prevaled and have superman get up and say no it's my greatist power and have him hit him so hard he flies into orbit and whoop the bejesus out of him I dunno that's what i'd pay to see

 

[Timstuff]

For the whole question of why Krypton was isolated, here's a simple solution: Krypton, for all their advancements did not posess the technology to travel to distant solar systems, and Jor El was a physicist who was designing a means of faster-than-light travel. Like in the George Reeve series, he builds a prototype ship that can seat one passenger, but Krypton's leaders are not interested in funding it since they quite enjoy isolationism, and believe their planet is a so-called "utopia" (though it's not really). Soon thereafter Jor El learns of the incoming cataclysm, and since the elders think he is resorting to fear tactics to gain support for his project, they don't do anything. And so, Jor El puts baby Kal El into the one passenger prototype and rockets him off to the nearest life supporting planet, Earth.

 

[Webhead2006]

that could work timstuff.

 

[Fresh Prince]

They can do the orgin in flashbacks similar to Batman Begins.

 

[Webhead2006]

there is so many ways they could go about doing origin in a new series.

 

[JayHero4eva]

I haven't read any of the all of the other posts, so sorry if I'm repeating. I agree with Webhead2006. There are many ways to redo something and if their starting fresh they should make their mark/take on the origin for their own. If you're going to do it you might as well do it right and right IMO is having a good basic start to expand upon.

 

[Webhead2006]

totally and i said it a few times it would be stupid for a reboot/restart not to have any origin stuff invovled because you are losing out on key development points and storylines you can start off and use down the road in a sequel or something.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I always found that amusing myself, since one of the greatest things about Superman is his backstory.

Just the stuff on Krypton, with Jor-El could easily hold a movie.

Heck, Clark's pre-Superman years spawned its own comic series and a TV show.

So having a reboot and just skipping all that would be an incredible waste.

They could also change the origins a bit for a new take, as others have suggested.

I'm not saying I want a movie just about Smallville, but it certainly could, and really should be a big part of a reboot. Having a young Clark Kent learn how to control his powers, travel the world to try to discover who or what he is, could easily hold a movie.


As for the question of "how could a civilization as advanced as Krypton destroy itself?", I'd consider going with Kryptonians destroying themselves with Civil War. With such an advanced civilization their weapons would be incredible. Not unlike our own human fears in the Cold War.

 

[Timstuff]

Yeah, Superman's origin is indeed one of the all time greats. Why waste it by not showing it in a reboot?

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Yeah, Superman's origin is indeed one of the all time greats. Why waste it by not showing it in a reboot?

That sums it up in a simple effective way

Although I would add that the fans who don't want the origin are basically leaving out the general audience, who it will be necessary for. Without the general audience getting really psyched for the new series, a sequel is not going to happen.

SR assumed everyone would be ready to move on from the origin, and started the franchise with a returns story. It is not even a question in my mind, that if Singer started with an origin story, the sequel would have never been in jeopardy.

 

[BestGirl]

Yeah, Superman's origin is indeed one of the all time greats. Why waste it by not showing it in a reboot?

Yep, Superman's got a great origin, but I don't think we'd learn too much of Krypton's society and politics in a movie. There just wouldn't be time for it.

 

[Timstuff]

I think that the backstory of Krypton should be saved for a sequel anyway. All we really need to see in the first one is Jor El and Lara putting baby Kal into the ship and sending him off to Earth while Krypton blows up.