Why does everyone hate The Batman?

[LostSon88]

Sorry forgot a few words there ...I meant to say that that episode (Mr. Freeze) was the final straw for me and that it was the one that made me officially turn off the show.

 

[Silver Sable]

The one which he teams up with Firefly?

 

[LostSon88]

No, the first one that showed his "origin".

 

[Silver Sable]

Yeah what a messed up background.He's supposed to be a scientist.not a robber

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

Yeah what a messed up background.He's supposed to be a scientist.not a robber

actually in his first appearance he was both. He was a scientist who was working on a freeze gun, there was an accident and a cryonic solution splashed on him mutating his body. He then came up with the suit to keep his body at the zero temperature and perfected his "ice gun" and turned to a life of crime.

 

[Silver Sable]

I must have missed the scientist scene then

 

[ZER0C00L]

actually in his first appearance he was both. He was a scientist who was working on a freeze gun, there was an accident and a cryonic solution splashed on him mutating his body. He then came up with the suit to keep his body at the zero temperature and perfected his "ice gun" and turned to a life of crime.

your talking about the BTAS right?

 

[R-Taco]

Yeah what a messed up background.He's supposed to be a scientist.not a robber

His background was no more tragic than in TB before 1992, actually...

Still, that episode ('The Big Chill') sucked. And it was the first episode of the show I ever saw. And I still kept watching.

PERSERVERANCE!

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

your talking about the BTAS right?

im talking about his first appearance in the comics, Batman 121, where he is known as Mr. Zero. The current debate about his animated origins should stem from this. TAS took the liberty of changing his origin by adding the tragedy of his wife, but still kept the scientist aspect. In TB, they kept the crook aspect, but still used the cryonic accident and suit. So both series took parts of his comic origin and changed it a bit. Neither one is historically accurate, so neither one is "definitive" in my book. However i do like the TAS version best.

 

[Rowen]

I didn't know that, interesting

 

[King Ruler]

"The Batman" borrows alot from all the previous Batman comics and shows, before he was REALLY this dark and brooding *******. That's why everyone hates the show, because this isn't the Batman that everyone is used to. I have mixed feelings about the show, but I wouldn't say I HATE it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

"The Batman" borrows alot from all the previous Batman comics and shows, before he was REALLY this dark and brooding *******. That's why everyone hates the show, because this isn't the Batman that everyone is used to. I have mixed feelings about the show, but I wouldn't say I HATE it.

That and the writing is absolutely terrible, as are the character designs and the repetitve battles. I mean i want to see The Joker or Poison Ivy. Not these anime characters.

 

[IKnowSomeJudo]

The show is horrible commercialized pap made for limp-wristed emo kiddies. I hope it gets canned soon.

 

[Mister J]

Amazing, WB will continue to crank out The Batman episodes and DVD's, but leaves us hanging on Justice League Unlimited.

 

[Infinity]

Well I certainly started a hell of a discussion thread!! Anyhow, I agree with many people's points about the show. The Mr. Freeze story isn't good at all, it certainly stole the innocence Mr. Freeze had as a villian in Batman: TAS. The Joker isn't that bad, sure Mark Hamil was the greatest as the joker but Joker is still a good villian in The Batman. The episode where he pretended to be Batman was hilarious!
I think the re-make of the Clayface story was one of the best animated Batman episodes ever. That 2 part special, and just about every episode with Clayface is amazing, showcasing Batman's character of misplaced guilt quite well. Finally, Spellbinder, now being a villian, from Asia, where Batman trained. This has got to be leading up to Batman's training as it is a DIRECT connection (perhaps even with Rhas Al Guul as they said they're gonna make that a part of The Batman, his training from the movie). That episode with Spellbinder was really good.
Alan Burnett is the producer of this show. He worked with Bruce Timm to produce Batman: TAS so with him pn board the show has a lot of potential and is living up to it.
Finally, the action and fights are WAY better. Batman is a fiercer fighter and moves like Spiderman with his grapple gun, the way he's supposed to move. This is much improved from the way he moved in Batman: TAS. Fight sequences are important to me. After all, Batman is a warrior. I really like the Batmobile design, better than in Batman Begins, that's just my opinion. Animation is top notch.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well I certainly started a hell of a discussion thread!! Anyhow, I agree with many people's points about the show. The Mr. Freeze story isn't good at all, it certainly stole the innocence Mr. Freeze had as a villian in Batman: TAS. The Joker isn't that bad, sure Mark Hamil was the greatest as the joker but Joker is still a good villian in The Batman. The episode where he pretended to be Batman was hilarious!
I think the re-make of the Clayface story was one of the best animated Batman episodes ever. That 2 part special, and just about every episode with Clayface is amazing, showcasing Batman's character of misplaced guilt quite well. Finally, Spellbinder, now being a villian, from Asia, where Batman trained. This has got to be leading up to Batman's training as it is a DIRECT connection (perhaps even with Rhas Al Guul as they said they're gonna make that a part of The Batman, his training from the movie). That episode with Spellbinder was really good.
Alan Burnett is the producer of this show. He worked with Bruce Timm to produce Batman: TAS so with him pn board the show has a lot of potential and is living up to it.
Finally, the action and fights are WAY better. Batman is a fiercer fighter and moves like Spiderman with his grapple gun, the way he's supposed to move. This is much improved from the way he moved in Batman: TAS. Fight sequences are important to me. After all, Batman is a warrior. I really like the Batmobile design, better than in Batman Begins, that's just my opinion. Animation is top notch.

So a bad Mr. Freeze and Joker that looks like he must get high every single weekend is ok? And you do realize the Clayface storyline is a dumb downed version of the Havery Dent storyline of the comics and Batman animated TV series?

And when did Alan Burnett become Timm? Isn't it pretty obvious who the brain child of the greatness of the past 15 years of animated DC goodness?

And no the action and fights are no where near better. I like them, but since when was Batman suppose to move like a unreal anime character? Is Batman Goku? Yes he is a warrior, but one of human origin. Recently watching World's Finest i don't see how you can even compare the fight scenes. Timm's DCAU nailed them, while The Batman looks like i am watching generic anime 506.

And nothing beats the Tumbler.

 

[King Ruler]

That's the problem with you "The Batman" haters: You guys keep comparing it to B:TAS. Like I said, I'm not a huge TB fan, but you guys have got to stop comparing it to B:TAS and start looking at it as its own show, like an Ultimate Batman. "The Batman" is setting it's own path and rewriting Batman's history, and in truth, "The Batman" kinda follows the Batman mythos a bit more than B:TAS did. I mean, this show is bringing out all the left out villains and characters and plots lines from the "Golden Age" of Batman's comics (I guess you can say that). Sure they dumb it down to make it more kid orientated, but then again, it's made for the kids, so of course they knew some of us older fans of the Timm show would object.

We're just gonna have to learn to get over it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's the problem with you "The Batman" haters: You guys keep comparing it to B:TAS. Like I said, I'm not a huge TB fan, but you guys have got to stop comparing it to B:TAS and start looking at it as its own show, like an Ultimate Batman. "The Batman" is setting it's own path and rewriting Batman's history, and in truth, "The Batman" kinda follows the Batman mythos a bit more than B:TAS did. I mean, this show is bringing out all the left out villains and characters and plots lines from the "Golden Age" of Batman's comics (I guess you can say that). Sure they dumb it down to make it more kid orientated, but then again, it's made for the kids, so of course they knew some of us older fans of the Timm show would object.

We're just gonna have to learn to get over it.

Actually i only brought up B:TAS when he did. He likes to talk about fight scenes and such, and compare them. I am point out he has lost the point of Batman the character. As to this "Ultimate Batman" crap. That is what Batman Beyond was, except they made it make sense.

And no, "The Batman" does not follow the Batman mythos all that well. Look at the characters, and how they are used. Look at Batman. They miss the mark most of the time.

Batman is special because he is human. He is the superhero that isn't super. This show makes him out to be a freaking anime character, that jumps around like he has springs in his boots.

P.S.- Timm's Batman was made for kids to. He just realized there was more then one audience.

 

[R-Taco]

Actually i only brought up B:TAS when he did. He likes to talk about fight scenes and such, and compare them. I am point out he has lost the point of Batman the character. As to this "Ultimate Batman" crap. That is what Batman Beyond was, except they made it make sense.

And no, "The Batman" does not follow the Batman mythos all that well. Look at the characters, and how they are used. Look at Batman. They miss the mark most of the time.

Batman is special because he is human. He is the superhero that isn't super. This show makes him out to be a freaking anime character, that jumps around like he has springs in his boots.

P.S.- Timm's Batman was made for kids to. He just realized there was more then one audience.

Batman Beyond isn't "Ultimate Batman" at all...

It's in continuity with BTAS, TNBA, and JLU.

Marvel's "Ultimate" universe has no connection to the older series, and follows often younger versions of the characters with completely redesigned villains. If anything, McGuiness is the DC version of Ben Reily.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Batman Beyond isn't "Ultimate Batman" at all...

It's in continuity with BTAS, TNBA, and JLU.

Marvel's "Ultimate" universe has no connection to the older series, and follows often younger versions of the characters with completely redesigned villains. If anything, McGuiness is the DC version of Ben Reily.

True. My point was more that they looked at the more "extreme" side of Batman. The one that makes him almost a superhuman instead of the guy in the suit. They did this with the suit and the "future" placment.

 

[Red]

I think the show is decent, but its effects (Bat-embargo) is what bothers me the most. The fact that characters that they dont even use cant be used on JLU especially bother me. .

Thats the really reason for me and them rapping the joker, by making him
Jamaican

 

[droogiedroogie2]

It's a pretty good show, not as good as Batman: TAS but so what? The fight scenes are much better. Batman's movements are also much more acrobatic, which I like.

Do you mean "the fight scenes are much better" in the sense that they're less realistic and Batman flies? Because if that's how you mean it, then sure, OK.

Also, a lot of fans are younger, and don't remember the broad history of Batman in animation, ALL of which was a little more light-hearted pre-BTAS (ie: SuperFriends and Filmation's Batman)

Oh, I remember that history. And I hate it. If I watch the Hanna-Barbera stuff or the Filmation stuff, I watch it because it's funny. Not because it was ever valid as a Batman narrative. Batman and Robin never threw a punch in Challenge of the SuperFriends. Yep, that's got all those "important elements," huh?

Guys, I love The Batman.

Who knew?

very dangerous like the gun to make people into playing cards.

Only the Matsudaverse could make the Joker just as dangerous and evil as he's supposed to be, but without any of the style, panache, and characterization that made him one of the top five villains in the history of fiction (Milton's Satan, Darth Vader from Star Wars, The Joker, Inspector Javert from Hugo's Les Miserables, and the Grim Reaper from everything.)

Even she is the same character we all love.

Who wants to see a ridiculous unintentional parody of Catwoman who is obsessed with telling Batman about what "they" don't think? C'mon, raise your hands, kids! Cuz I know there's no self-respecting adult that wants to!

Bane has been only seen once, but he's still shown to use vemon to make him stronger and a dangerous threat to both Bruce Wayne and Batman. I loved Traction because if you think about it, it was based on Knightfall.

Kind of. Only, not.

Man-Bat is basically a huge, deadly vampire bat that while it wasn't shown, sucked blood from several mammals in its first appearence. His design is frightening.

Fine. If they would have found a way to fcck up Man-Bat, I would have exploded. Ruining Man-Bat is like ruining toast.

Was anyone glad that Firefly wasn't a villian in degree like Penguin but a work for hire? I was.

In the same way I'm glad to see the basic premise of ANY character thrown out the window in favor of a bullsh1t cliche. That's why I just love the Silver Age interpretations of Batman, and the SuperFriends version of the JLA.

Clayface was tragic and more better than his BTAS design. Nothing wrong there.

Not just better. MORE better.

And the Riddler, he was creepy.

Yeah, I loved his most recent album, the one with Mobscene. Dude, that was such a return to form--Oh, that was a different guy?

Get it?

"No, you don't got it. Get it?"--Ben Stiller playing Tom Cruise on an SNL Celebrity Jeopardy skit.

(pauses to reflect)...man, I'm glad this thread happened. So nice to see that there are still people who won't just accept whatever incarnation of Batman gets thrown at them.

I would also like to say that BTAS's version of Penguin sucked too. "Aviary of doom," anybody? His voice-actor sucked. The way the Penguin should be is the way he was in City of Crime. Tchyea.

But, these guys working on TB like the darker version of Batman.

There are not enough letters in the phrase "What the fcck are you talking about?" to adequately express the "What the fcck are you talking about"ness of the way I feel. And no way for me to possibly express, in written form, the magnitude of my bitter laugh that your post sent me into. Darker version? To paraphrase TB's Catwoman...That's not what WE think...

i dont understand Why they wouldnt just continue the original Batman the Animated Series instead of this crap...

What, you don't like Batgirl in a skirt?

That Batman doesn't shop for guitars, call on Alfred for enchiladas, etc.

Surely you kid. Not even Matsuda could sink that low...right? Right? Guys...?

The GK designs are great, but this really seems to show how ugly some of the BTAS designs were, especially Franken-Robin (just my opinion).

Yeah, Catwoman, Penguin, and the Riddler were the only ones that looked worse in GK. The rest all improved.

I mean i'm all about updating Batman for a newer generation, but THIS show and their 're-imagination' goes too far.

Between this and All-Star Batman, I bet it's a scary time to be a new Bat-fan.

In the beginning Freeze was known as Mr. Zero, who was just another crook with a gimmick. (i.e. him needing to use the suit) and he did just do crimes.

And that was lame.

im talking about his first appearance in the comics, Batman 121, where he is known as Mr. Zero. The current debate about his animated origins should stem from this. TAS took the liberty of changing his origin by adding the tragedy of his wife, but still kept the scientist aspect. In TB, they kept the crook aspect, but still used the cryonic accident and suit. So both series took parts of his comic origin and changed it a bit. Neither one is historically accurate, so neither one is "definitive" in my book. However i do like the TAS version best.

I was aware of that history. TB's Freeze, like the original Mr. Zero, is still lame-ass.

Amazing, WB will continue to crank out The Batman episodes and DVD's, but leaves us hanging on Justice League Unlimited.

No, JLU is straight cancelled.

That's the problem with you "The Batman" haters: You guys keep comparing it to B:TAS.

Maybe because they claim to both be animated TV shows about Batman! Huh! What a thought! But no, I'm really just comparing it to something that I would want to watch. And it's not anything close to something that I would want to watch. That's why I don't.

 

[roach]

That's the problem with you "The Batman" haters: You guys keep comparing it to B:TAS. Like I said, I'm not a huge TB fan, but you guys have got to stop comparing it to B:TAS and start looking at it as its own show, like an Ultimate Batman. "The Batman" is setting it's own path and rewriting Batman's history, and in truth, "The Batman" kinda follows the Batman mythos a bit more than B:TAS did. I mean, this show is bringing out all the left out villains and characters and plots lines from the "Golden Age" of Batman's comics (I guess you can say that). Sure they dumb it down to make it more kid orientated, but then again, it's made for the kids, so of course they knew some of us older fans of the Timm show would object.

We're just gonna have to learn to get over it.

If you go to a resturant and order a steak and it is the best steak you ever had....then you go back and the steak isnt as goodas you had it last time...are you not allowed to compare it???? Or was the chef finding his own path?????
This show has no depth to it. It's purpose is to sell action figures. This is the Joel Schumacher Batman. BTAS was a groundbreaking series that proved that cartoons could be successful and not be aimed at kids. The producers of The Batman didnt learn from BTAS

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

Oh, I remember that history. And I hate it. If I watch the Hanna-Barbera stuff or the Filmation stuff, I watch it because it's funny. Not because it was ever valid as a Batman narrative. Batman and Robin never threw a punch in Challenge of the SuperFriends. Yep, that's got all those "important elements," huh?

Im glad to hear that violence in cartoons is an "important element" to you. Who says our society isnt civilized? When i was a kid watching those cartoons i didnt care. Why? I was a KID watching CARTOONS.

Who wants to see a ridiculous unintentional parody of Catwoman who is obsessed with telling Batman about what "they" don't think? C'mon, raise your hands, kids! Cuz I know there's no self-respecting adult that wants to!

Who exactly are "they" that you are referring to? and what is such a parody about TB's Catwoman? The TB team has elements of both her thief and animal activist sides. So whats the problem with this character to you?

Not just better. MORE better.

There really isnt a need to be insulting to anyone. Everbody makes mistakes when typing.

Yeah, I loved his most recent album, the one with Mobscene. Dude, that was such a return to form--Oh, that was a different guy?

I didnt know there was a law that said the designs for characters must be followed exactly the same in each rendition. I remember in the comics how even the Joker had short hair, a ponytail, even a shaved head. I also remember how Riddler had a receeding (sp?) hairline, but now he has a full head of hair. My point is, who cares if a cartoon character resembles someone? The basic elements are still there.

(pauses to reflect)...man, I'm glad this thread happened. So nice to see that there are still people who won't just accept whatever incarnation of Batman gets thrown at them.

Yeh, itb be an interesting world if everyone agreed on everything and no one had different tastes or opinions.

I would also like to say that BTAS's version of Penguin sucked too. "Aviary of doom," anybody? His voice-actor sucked. The way the Penguin should be is the way he was in City of Crime. Tchyea.

See? This is YOUR opinion.

What, you don't like Batgirl in a skirt?

Again, is there some law on design?

Surely you kid. Not even Matsuda could sink that low...right? Right? Guys...?

Hm, Bruce does have hobbies. So in the TB its guitars. So? Heaven forbid if Bruce wants some Mexican food. This is just a stupid argument, imo.

Yeah, Catwoman, Penguin, and the Riddler were the only ones that looked worse in GK. The rest all improved.

Im tired of touching on the whole design thing.

Between this and All-Star Batman, I bet it's a scary time to be a new Bat-fan.

Im not gonna touch the All-Star thing. I hate how Miller writes Batman, but thats a discussion for another thread.

And that was lame.

I was aware of that history. TB's Freeze, like the original Mr. Zero, is still lame-ass.

Maybe. However, when debating the "origins" used in TB it is a very important fact. You cant fault the writing team when they used the original source material.

Maybe because they claim to both be animated TV shows about Batman! Huh! What a thought! But no, I'm really just comparing it to something that I would want to watch. And it's not anything close to something that I would want to watch. That's why I don't.

They dont "claim" to be, they are. And why not compare them to the Filmation and Hanna-Barbara stuff too? They are animated incarnations. And know what? They are all different. Just like how everyones opinion on Batman is different. Just like thru the entire history of Batman there are different representations of the character. This will continue. Some will like certain versions, some will not.

For someone who doesnt watch the show tho, you sure have some strong opinions and knowledge about it.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

If you go to a resturant and order a steak and it is the best steak you ever had....then you go back and the steak isnt as goodas you had it last time...are you not allowed to compare it???? Or was the chef finding his own path?????
This show has no depth to it. It's purpose is to sell action figures. This is the Joel Schumacher Batman. BTAS was a groundbreaking series that proved that cartoons could be successful and not be aimed at kids. The producers of The Batman didnt learn from BTAS

Maybe there is a different chef. Kind of how there is a different creative team behind this animated show.