Why the hate for Wolverine?

[Mike059jig]

You should check out IGN top 25 X-men...That make me happy every time I look at it...and got x3 out of my head..I always like Cyclops being written as a team player..

 

[gambitfire]

Didn't Gambit come in at a bad number? in which case no i don't want to know.

 

[Mike059jig]

Ah man...you can check if you want...but I can make easier for you and Tell you

Spoiler

he's not on the list.....sorry man

http://comics.ign.com/articles/708/708826p1.html

 

[gambitfire]

Ah man...you can check if you want...but I can make easier for you and Tell you

Spoiler

he's not on the list.....sorry man

http://comics.ign.com/articles/708/708826p1.html

This just hasn't been His year. The worst part is that someone had the nerve to start a thread a few months ago asking Is Gambit overrated?

Well i think that answers itself.

 

[danoyse]

Then why is it being treated like it is. The attitude projected by Wolverine to Cyclops seems to be "this franchise isn't big enough for the both of us, bub, so one of us has to go." And Scott had to go. It's business, right? Most popular character stays, and the other character even though he's the team leader has to go. It was done due to business reasons by FOX, as has just been pointed out, again. Of course people are going to be angry!!! It's not that Cyclops was shoved aside, but that he was shoved aside, by Wolverine, who essentially assumed his role for X3.

So Fox made Jackman a better actor too?

Her point is that Jackman's performance clicked with the audience better than Marsden's did, which is why Fox capitalized on it in the sequels. Any studio would have been crazy not too. It wasn't a mission to bring down a character just to give another the spotlight. Wolverine didn't do anything, he's not a real person.

You loved Marsden's performance in X1 (I enjoyed it as well), but as a comic book fan you knew more about the nuances about the characters than a good number of people who saw it with you.

I, not being familiar with the comics at the time...was introduced though Wolverine as a good-looking guy in cage match that was followed one of the best bar confrontations I've ever seen in a film, as well as a terrific scene with the runaway kid.

My introduction to Cyclops was a guy who popped out of nowhere during a fight, with the the visor that kept me from seeing most of his face, and acted like a bit of a stuffed shirt. But I loved the interaction between him and Logan...even more so when I did check out some of the comics after I saw the movie. I was sorry to see him go, but I do like Logan better.

It just clicked in a different direction with people. Sucks for the comics fans, but that's just what happened.

He got Cyke's bike, he got Cyke's car, he got Cyke's role as a teacher, he got Cyke's role as a leader, he got Cyke's lines in the script, and at the very end, he got Cyke's girl. What did Cyclops get? An early exit from the film and a grave at the end.

I bet he didn't take Cyke's 'Nsync cd that he left in his car.

 

[danoyse]

You know, one thing I noticed about Cyclops fans, is that just like their character, they are willing to share. Share the spotlight, share the storyline, share the space in the mansion for guests and other characters. Cyclops fans don't demand that Cyclops be plastered all over the screen 100% or to be THE dominating character. They never wanted that. They just want Cyclops like the rest of the major characters to have a fair share of screen and storytime. Cyclops fans don't mind seeing Wolverine storyarcs, or Storm storyarcs, or stories about Xavier, or Jean, or Beast, or Polaris, or NightCrawler, or anyone else. They only want their fair share, and it's clear from X3 that they got short-changed in the process.

We firmly believe that this franchise is big enough for EVERYONE. There's no need to hog the screen, this universe is big enough and with enough stories to satisfy ALL the fans.

Oh. my. god. Now we don't share?

We're too busy taking all of your Halloween candy and stealing Christmas. We don't have time to demand things for Cyclops. :P

 

[gambitfire]

Im soo anxious for this Wolverine movie .

Can't wait too see if it bombs or not.

*starts rooting* BOMB BOMB BOMB!!!

 

[Loganbabe]

More importantly, they want you to shut up.

They dont like the fact that people are complaining so much about X3. They didnt like it when the film was in development, telling cyke fans repeatedly to get over it, and they dont like it now.

OHHHH...The Conspiracy!!!
Be afraid...be very afraid!

 

[gambitfire]

I just think ppl misjudged Cyclops he's the nice guy and let's face it if your a nice guy you don't like that about yourself. Therefore not a lot of ppl like the nice guy feel while the bad ass guy is too cool. So we all love the Bad ass guy.

Im not saying it's wrong but this was too much of an extreme.

Wolverine is too perfect. You say he isn't but he is. In the comic books they really make his life so miserable so he wont' seem so perfect, yet he is. He's an incredible fighter with years of experience probably the best martial artist ever. He's a wild like beast an insane fighter no one can survive his wrath. But wait he's also warm, loving, gentle, Has a heart of gold...............im sorry i can't relate. He's a loner that's about as much as i can relate too.

Gambit is a loner, he's different ppl really don't understand him. They see him and they get this fun great guy but they know nothing about him. Him i can relate too. Cyclops too put it simply is the nice guy. Yea im a nice guy. In person anyways .
Rogue biggest flaw i can relate too, she can't touch others afraid she would hurt them, sometimes i feel that way. Im just saying you like something you can relate too and Wolverine isn't unrelatable but he's too much sometimes.

 

[Hulkster]

"Invading your thread?" No one is invading your thread. It's not even our thread to invade. It's a discussion board, isn't it? It's not "This is why we hate Wolverine." This why fans and non-fans can discuss their differences with the character.

Why haven't we made a "Why the hate Cyclops" thread? Because we don't hate Cyclops? Honestly, I just don't have it in myself to spew hatred about a fictional character. Unlike our buddy Kurosawa, who makes Wolverine fans look saner and better every time he posts.

Who's doing the name calling here? Who's telling people they can't accept reality? It's not the Wolverine fans.

LS was right when he responded early in the thread...why the hate for Wolverine? Jealousy. Certain fans can't stand that another character is more popular, and will rip to shreds everything from the character itself to the people who like him, to wild conspiracy theories about studio vendettas.

Isn't it entirely possible that people can just like a certain character more, or think the actor who played that character just had more appeal? To accept the fact that there's an entire chunk of the moviegoing audience that has not and will not check out a comic book and let them enjoy the movie for their own merit?

It doesn't mean you can't like your favorite anymore. It doesn't mean you can't be frustrated that the character doesn't get more attention. But if you don't like getting picked on for it, don't expect roses back when you pick on the other guy.

Did you even bother to read the thread title? It is not my thread, It said why the hate for Wolverine, even little children knows that this is about why you hate Wolverine.

If you have no hatred, then why still post here against Cyclops?

I called you names because you really deserve it.

The last time I remember the X-men was a "team" not a Wolverine Solo.

And Hugh Jackman only became famous right now because of "Wolverine". Look at what happen on Van Helsing, it became a failure even if Hugh Jackman is in there.

 

[gambitfire]

Hey Ntcrawler you have your alluminum hat? don't forget FOX is probing our minds.

 

[Loganbabe]

Oh. my. god. Now we don't share?

We're too busy taking all of your Halloween candy and stealing Christmas. We don't have time to demand things for Cyclops. :P

Can´t you see, danoyse? We Wolverine fans are mean people. Bad, bad, terrible people - that´s what we are! We can´t understand the inner goodness, sharing souls and pure spirit of Cyke fans.
Sweet Jesus...what next?

 

[ntcrawler]

So Fox made Jackman a better actor too?

Red herring.

Her point is that Jackman's performance clicked with the audience better than Marsden's did, which is why Fox capitalized on it in the sequels. Any studio would have been crazy not too. It wasn't a mission to bring down a character just to give another the spotlight.

The capitalized it to the point that it compromised the integrity of the story and of the characters. You can capitalize Wolverine all you want when the title of the movie is "Wolverine". Last time I checked, the title was "X-Men: The Last Stand", and not "X-Men: Wolverine" or "Wolverine: The Last Stand". The difference between this and a spinoff is that X-Men is a team movie whereas a Wolverine spinoff is supposed to be about, obviously, Wolverine. The main arc of the story is supposed to be a war of ideology between Xavier and Magneto. Not a war about Wolverine vs everyone else, yet by looking at the cover artwork it seems like the story is about the latter.

Wolverine didn't do anything, he's not a real person.

Another red herring.

You loved Marsden's performance in X1 (I enjoyed it as well), but as a comic book fan you knew more about the nuances about the characters than a good number of people who saw it with you.

It doesn't take away the character's appeal that the general audience doesn't know about his background. Hell, the general audience doesn't know anything about Wolverine's background until you dive a bit into X2. If you want to learn nuances, the official websites give enough basic biographical data to help you get started at understanding what tha characters are about, their roles and characteristics. Heck, in most other epic pictures you don't learn about a char's nuances and backgrounds until much later. Darth Vader? Luke Skywalker? Aragon? Bilbo Baggins?

I, not being familiar with the comics at the time...was introduced though Wolverine as a good-looking guy in cage match that was followed one of the best bar confrontations I've ever seen in a film, as well as a terrific scene with the runaway kid.

Yes, those were great scenes.

My introduction to Cyclops was a guy who popped out of nowhere during a fight, with the the visor that kept me from seeing most of his face,

Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder and Ronnie Milsap never let you see their eyes, but that doesn't prevent them from captivating and clicking with their audience. And for obvious reasons, that's one of Cyclops' handicaps. Which is also one of the reasons why he finds it difficult to click with other people. That's supposed to be the point! Only a few, such as Jean are able to see what lies behind that visor. That's intentional. Just like Rogue can't touch people with her bare skin, Cyclops cannot literally look you eye to eye without a piece of ruby quartz in between.

It just clicked in a different direction with people. Sucks for the comics fans, but that's just what happened.

Again, it's not just the comic fans. I ran into people who are not comic fans but are fans of the movies and feel the same way I do. You shouldn't just assume that only hardcore comic fans would be affected.

I bet he didn't take Cyke's 'Nsync cd that he left in his car.

[groans] Bad taste is not a crime! Besides, how do you know it's not one of Kitty's or Jean's CD's?

 

[gambitfire]

I wonder what would of happened if the shoe was on the other foot.

If Wolverine was taken out of X3 and Cyclops would take over. I mean it would never happen but could you imagine the mass hysteria?

Would Wolverine fans slip irrational comments now and then trying to express their disappointment and frustration or are they as perfect as their character?

 

[ntcrawler]

C
Sweet Jesus...what next?

A Wolverine movie?

 

[My Red Sight]

It seems that these films weren't really made for the fans.

 

[Mike059jig]

Again, it's not just the comic fans

what about the people that only watch the cartoons??..

 

[danoyse]

Did you even bother to read the thread title? It is not my thread, It said why the hate for Wolverine, even little children knows that this is about why you hate Wolverine.

Did you read the first thread? It was by a Wolverine fan who wanted to know what the problem was. Wolverine fans have been explaining why they think the character is more popular...not why he's supposedly so much better.

If you have no hatred, then why still post here against Cyclops?

I've never posted anything against Cyclops. I like Cyclops.

Oh, and this isn't a Cyclops thread...even though every thread eventually turns into one anyway.

I called you names because you really deserve it.

Well, if we're going to go the childish route...I know you are, but what am I?

The last time I remember the X-men was a "team" not a Wolverine Solo.

And I remember when the subway was still $.50. What's your point?

And Hugh Jackman only became famous right now because of "Wolverine". Look at what happen on Van Helsing, it became a failure even if Hugh Jackman is in there.

Well, you're sort of proving the point there...Hugh became a star because of X-Men. Which is why he has such a prominent role in X-Men. Because people like him in it.

Even he couldn't save Van Helsing. That was a terrible movie.

And is that the best you got? I saw him on Broadway--getting a standing ovation during the show. Much more impressive.

 

[ntcrawler]

I wonder what would of happened if the shoe was on the other foot.

If Wolverine was taken out of X3 and Cyclops would take over. I mean it would never happen but could you imagine the mass hysteria?

Oh yeah, how could they? Wolverine is so much more interesting and cooler and complicated than Cyclops, Cyclops is nothing compared to him, if it wasn't for Wolverien they would all be dead and now he's suddenly killed off? And the Cyclops fans are beating us down for daring to complain, telling us we should get over it because he's not a real character and they're making fun of us by insisting there's a conspiracy?

Oh no, that would never do.

Would Wolverine fans slip irrational comments now and then trying to express their disappointment and frustration or are they as perfect as their character?

Good question. No doubt they would grin and bare it and move on because it's just a silly movie and story

 

[danoyse]

Can´t you see, danoyse? We Wolverine fans are mean people. Bad, bad, terrible people - that´s what we are! We can´t understand the inner goodness, sharing souls and pure spirit of Cyke fans.
Sweet Jesus...what next?

The same thing we do every night...TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!

 

[gambitfire]

It seems that these films weren't really made for the fans.

Yea because movies that do that are so unsuccesful.

*coughsBATMANBEGINS,SPIDER-MAN,HARRYPOTTER,LOTR,ROTS*

 

[gambitfire]

what about the people that only watch the cartoons??..

Cartoons still had a great amount of accurate things to the comic book

 

[ntcrawler]

Cartoons still had a great amount of accurate things to the comic book

Like character balance

 

[Hulkster]

Did you read the first thread? It was by a Wolverine fan who wanted to know what the problem was. Wolverine fans have been explaining why they think the character is more popular...not why he's supposedly so much better.

I've never posted anything against Cyclops. I like Cyclops.

Oh, and this isn't a Cyclops thread...even though every thread eventually turns into one anyway.

Well, if we're going to go the childish route...I know you are, but what am I?

And I remember when the subway was still $.50. What's your point?

Well, you're sort of proving the point there...Hugh became a star because of X-Men. Which is why he has such a prominent role in X-Men. Because people like him in it.

Even he couldn't save Van Helsing. That was a terrible movie.

And is that the best you got? I saw him on Broadway--getting a standing ovation during the show. Much more impressive.

Oh God why can't you understand english, I'm an asian but I think I understand much better than you.

I'll explain this again, this is a dummies tutorial. this is why the hate for Wolverine thread.

We are all child at heart, because if were not then why are we still in here.

You also prove my point, Hugh Jackman is nothing without Wolverine. Van Helsing became a flop because of him. Thanks dude

 

[danoyse]

The capitalized it to the point that it compromised the integrity of the story and of the characters. You can capitalize Wolverine all you want when the title of the movie is "Wolverine". Last time I checked, the title was "X-Men: The Last Stand", and not "X-Men: Wolverine" or "Wolverine: The Last Stand". The difference between this and a spinoff is that X-Men is a team movie whereas a Wolverine spinoff is supposed to be about, obviously, Wolverine. The main arc of the story is supposed to be a war of ideology between Xavier and Magneto. Not a war about Wolverine vs everyone else, yet by looking at the cover artwork it seems like the story is about the latter.

Again...to YOU. You know the comics more than the average moviegoer. Of course you're going to see it that way. But how is the average moviegoer (of which there are plenty) somehow supposed to know that Cyclops was suddenly robbed of screentime? Are they just deemed clueless Wolverine fans who don't know how the share?

I know plenty of people who saw X3 and didn't complain about any of these things. In fact, Wolverine got the biggest laugh in the movie all 4 times I saw it.

It doesn't take away the character's appeal that the general audience doesn't know about his background.

Uh, yeah...it does.

Hell, the general audience doesn't know anything about Wolverine's background until you dive a bit into X2.

A lot more than we did about Cyclops. We even saw his skeleton and got a rather gruesome description of how he got his claws. Oh, and that he had no memory.

If you want to learn nuances, the official websites give enough basic biographical data to help you get started at understanding what tha characters are about, their roles and characteristics.

Do you really think everyone who goes to a movie reads up on all that?

Heck, in most other epic pictures you don't learn about a char's nuances and backgrounds until much later. Darth Vader? Luke Skywalker? Aragon? Bilbo Baggins?

I saw Star Wars in the theater when I was 3 and understood more about Luke Skywalker than I did about Cyclops when I was 26 and saw X-Men for the first time.

Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder and Ronnie Milsap never let you see their eyes, but that doesn't prevent them from captivating and clicking with their audience.

That's because they were singing. On the radio. (Milsap too? I'm not familiar with that one?)

And for obvious reasons, that's one of Cyclops' handicaps. Which is also one of the reasons why he finds it difficult to click with other people. That's supposed to be the point! Only a few, such as Jean are able to see what lies behind that visor. That's intentional. Just like Rogue can't touch people with her bare skin, Cyclops cannot literally look you eye to eye without a piece of ruby quartz in between.

Yes, I got the whole handicap thing. And the visor was cool. But...it does take something away from the performance.

Again, it's not just the comic fans. I ran into people who are not comic fans but are fans of the movies and feel the same way I do. You shouldn't just assume that only hardcore comic fans would be affected.

And that's the 'everyone I know' theory...which is an inexact science for all of us (even I used it up above there)

[groans] Bad taste is not a crime! Besides, how do you know it's not one of Kitty's or Jean's CD's? [/QUOTE]

Clearly, you've never seen them in concert.