The Amazing Spider-Man 2 will the amazing spiderman 3 fail?

[Green Goblin]

The Winter Soldier doubled The First Avenger.

And Franchise fatigue? Do you know when franchise fatigue sets in? When the movies aren't making the public happy. 8 Harry Potter films, 6 Tolkien films, we are about to see #10 for the MCU. The FF series is about to release #7 and they have never made more money. The Bond movies got good again, they started making great money again, even in the 20s.


Then why are they making so much less? Why are they selling so many less tickets? Magic?

I was talking about the first Spider-Man movie. Domestically it's been in decline since then. Spider-Man 2 made less money than SM1 and SM3. Going by your logic that better box office=better quality then Spider-Man 2 should be the worst in the Raimi series. In my own country, the UK ASM2 made more than TWS. Does that mean British audiences thought that movie was better???

Box Office is much more complicated than quality=box office. We have two good Spider-Man movie but not one on the level of TDK. I'm not saying ASM2 is "the best Spidey film ever" or "TDK of Spider-Man" as early screenings said but it's still considered a good movie.

 

[Bullseye1]

No, it lost money.

I see where your logic is coming from now. I hope no business is listening.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I was talking about the first Spider-Man movie. Domestically it's been in decline since then. Spider-Man 2 made less money than SM1 and SM3. Going by your logic that better box office=better quality then Spider-Man 2 should be the worst in the Raimi series. In my own country, the UK ASM2 made more than TWS. Does that mean British audiences thought that movie was better???

Do you know why Spidey 2 made less? Worse release date. A much worse release date, also like Star Wars, nothing in the series was going to make the first film until inflation took effect down the line. Too big. Spidey 3 is the perfect example of a frontloaded film that comes after something the public loved.

Box office does not mean better quality to me. It judges public appeal imo. As TASM series has shown, Spidey is fading, while Cap is rising. Why? I'd say it is a combination of many things, that include quality. I don't think the highest grosses of all time are random.

Box Office is much more complicated than quality=box office. We have two good Spider-Man movie but not one on the level of TDK. I'm not saying ASM2 is "the best Spidey film ever" or "TDK of Spider-Man" as early screenings said but it's still considered a good movie.

You think it is good. I'd say the general reaction is mixed at best. Critics clearly weren't fond of it, and the box office screams dissatisfaction. It is going down.

I see where your logic is coming from now. I hope no business is listening.

I am curious by what you mean by this.

 

[spider-neil]

You think it is good. I'd say the general reaction is mixed at best. Critics clearly weren't fond of it, and the box office screams dissatisfaction. It is going down.

WS, DoFP and Godzilla have similar numbers, so are the GA screaming dissatisfaction with those movies too? Don't the oversea numbers count?
America is turning from Spidey, granted but the overseas numbers are decent. I'm not talking profits I'm talking numbers that are coming out to see the movie.

 

[Green Goblin]

Do you know why Spidey 2 made less? Worse release date. A much worse release date, also like Star Wars, nothing in the series was going to make the first film until inflation took effect down the line. Too big. Spidey 3 is the perfect example of a frontloaded film that comes after something the public loved.

Same could be said for the US release date of ASM2. Days Of Future Past, Godzilla? Big films with a similar audience (young adult).

Box office does not mean better quality to me. It judges public appeal imo. As TASM series has shown, Spidey is fading, while Cap is rising. Why? I'd say it is a combination of many things, that include quality. I don't think the highest grosses of all time are random.

So ASM2 has better public appeal in the UK than Cap 2? Does that mean ASM was a better film than The Avengers? Quality does perhaps come in but it can't really be the most important because I can give you much,much more examples were quality doesn't mean better. Captain America 2 is still a sequel to The Avengers, more so than the rest with SHIELD and Black Widow. It's considered near or the same as it's quality yet it didn't break a billion.

You think it is good. I'd say the general reaction is mixed at best. Critics clearly weren't fond of it, and the box office screams dissatisfaction. It is going down.

Look at the poll. Majority here liked it. Majority of the GA liked it. Disappointing but still good, not to dissimilar from 2013's Comic Book Film line up. Look at my sig, it's in my top 5 but I'm not pretending people thought it was that good.

What makes the blow harder was that the trailers/footage/hype made it seem like Sony were going to have their own Dark Knight.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Same could be said for the US release date of ASM2. Days Of Future Past, Godzilla? Big films with a similar audience (young adult).

The first weekend in May is arguably the best. It is why TASM 2 wanted it. The Avengers and Iron Man 3 swept the competition aside.

The top four are,
- First Weekend in May
- Mermorial Day
- Mid July (The Usual WB Spot)
- The week before Christmas

So ASM2 has better public appeal in the UK than Cap 2? Does that mean ASM was a better film than The Avengers? Quality does perhaps come in but it can't really be the most important because I can give you much,much more examples were quality doesn't mean better. Captain America 2 is still a sequel to The Avengers, more so than the rest with SHIELD and Black Widow. It's considered near or the same as it's quality yet it didn't break a billion.

The sequel to the Avengers, is The Age of Ultron. Same director, same writer, everyone is going to be there. It literally says, "The Avengers". Now I know you want TWS to be the "actual" sequel to help your bad argument, but no.

UK likes Spidey better, fine. I know which series I'd place money on making more in 2016 domestically and WW. Here is the hint, it is the one that is coming off a sequel that doubled its last film, not the one making far less then its predecessor.

Look at the poll. Majority here liked it. Majority of the GA liked it. Disappointing but still good, not to dissimilar to 2013's Comic Book Film line up. Look at my sig, it's in my top 5 but I'm not pretending people thought it was that good.

What makes the blow harder was that the trailers/footage/hype made it seem like Sony were going to have their own Dark Knight.

What poll?

 

[Green Goblin]

The sequel to the Avengers, is The Age of Ultron. Same director, same writer, everyone is going to be there. It literally says, "The Avengers". Now I know you want TWS to be the "actual" sequel to help your bad argument, but no.

UK likes Spidey better, fine. I know which series I'd place money on making more in 2016 domestically and WW. Here is the hint, it is the one that is coming off a sequel that doubled its last film, not the one making far less then its predecessor

Show me were I said it was the "actual sequel". I said it was a sequel, you either misinterpreted what I said or your putting in words to help your argument.

A sequel is always defined as something that takes place after the previous film and usually follows the character(s) from the previous ones. That's not always the case though as there is many examples (Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes). TWS follows, Captain America , SHIELD, Fury and Maria Hill. All these characters appeared in Avengers. It's still a sequel to The Avengers. Look at Phase 2 as a whole, it references TA just as much, if not more than their Phase 1 film(s).

Marketing said "The Avengers was just the beginng". That was no accident.

 

[Raiden]

If Sony thinks the recipe for success for TASM3 is to throw the Sinister Six at Spider-Man, instead of checking to see what went wrong in TASM2, then I don't see how they will be able to stop the diminishing returns of Spidey sequels.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I'm really trying to figure out Sony's logic right now, because it's kinda hard to believe that Sony is this stupid. If they think that Spider-man is a cash cow they can abuse any way they want, then why not give the damn director more creative control when he's a big Spider-man fan himself? In their apparent logic the movie would make a lot of money regardless and at least then even though it's a gamble it has a chance being a good movie, infact messing with the movie and Webb's vision is an even bigger gamble. Sony totally has it backwards

okay yeah never mind, they are that stupid

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm really trying to figure out Sony's logic right now, because it's kinda hard to believe that Sony is this stupid. If they think that Spider-man is a cash cow they can abuse any way they want, then why not give the damn director more creative control when he's a big Spider-man fan himself? In their apparent logic the movie would make a lot of money regardless and at least then even though it's a gamble it has a chance being a good movie, infact messing with the movie and Webb's vision is an even bigger gamble. Sony totally has it backwards

okay yeah never mind, they are that stupid

Those at Sony think they know the secret formula. That their input can make the next Spidey film a billion dollar earner. If by the off chance it works, they will give themselves all the credit, and continue to mess around.

 

[Spider-knight]

you know if the third installment is about the symbiote it'll have potential to be a great movie because garfield is such a great actor and webb has a great capture of emotions. but if sony ****s this up chances are they won't make alot of money. the only way they are gonna make money is, again, give us a director's cut and give the creators some freedom because with a director like drew goiddard who did a fantastic job at cabin in the woods i can't imagine a movie featuring spidey's rogues would be bad. infact how in the hell can you set up the sinister six without characters like kraven, vulture, doc ock, and mysterio having to ditest spiderman. i know the gentleman created the sinister six in one of the novel but the film is suppose to be a redemption story and it's also BS that oscorp created the wings and tentacles instead of adrian toomes and otto octavious. eh, maybe they'll go for blackie drago since he was the second vulture and a punk and he was the main vulture in the ultimate universe despite looking alot like the 616 version adrian toomes. but you need otto to create the tentacles. he created the tentacles for a reason and were a big part for a reason AS WELL AS HIS CHARACTER.

 

[Spider-knight]

Those at Sony think they know the secret formula. That their input can make the next Spidey film a billion dollar earner. If by the off chance it works, they will give themselves all the credit, and continue to mess around.

not for long exactly. x-men, neighbors, and cap 2 all beat spidey in the box office and sony isn't making that much money as they expected and i really don't see drew goddard nor the sinister siox film ever being finished so i guess sony should learn from their mistakes

 

[spider-neil]

I think at this point it would take something drastic to turn Spidey's box office fortunes around (so it clears 800m +). There have been two lukewarm received movies (critically) plus one of the main things that made the movie good (Gwen) has now gone.

If Sony made two amazing (no pun intended) spin offs (Venom and S6) it would certainly help but at this point the only thing that will generate massive interest in the movie is a truly A list director, writer and cinematographer or an Avengers boost and Sony should be on their hands and knees begging Marvel to make Spidey appear in any capacity in the next Avengers movie.

How the mighty have fallen. The thing to give Spidey hope is the two most iconic heroes of all time (with Spidey being the third) Batman and Superman have fallen far far lower at the cinema/BO and have returned from the brink, so a return to former greatness is possible but let's be honest here, short of a miracle it is highly unlikely.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The X-Men franchise is the cautionary tale that Sony should have paid attention to. DOFP is a critically acclaimed, well-received film, that many, if not most are saying is the best film in the franchise.

And it only grossed $111 million domestically over the four day weekend. The Last Stand (and Origins) drastically affected this franchise. I have no doubts that DOFP would have grossed a billion dollars worldwide had it come out immediately following X2. But people have seemingly given up on it.

This is what Sony is facing with TASM3 and the franchise going forward. It is going to be an extremely difficult task winning them back, and even if TASM3 is great, the box office won't reflect that. If Sony was starting from where they were a couple of films back, it wouldn't be as significant because SM3 still made a ton of money. A dropoff from that is still going to put them well in the black. But TASM2, while still very likely to make a profit, is getting uncomfortably close to not doing so. So we have TASM3, a film that is very likely going to make less money than its predecessor and a franchise that is no longer economically viable if the gross drops much further. That's why the outlook is bleak.

 

[Spider-knight]

like i said the only way sony is gonna break box office record is if they give creators freedom. if they continue to interfere not only is the franchise ****ed but so will their company. spiderman is their only ticket. they'll be ****ed if they keep messing around which is why they SHOULD give us an amazing spiderman 2 director's cut and they SHOULD let creators do what they want to do and that is making good movies.

 

[Spidey-Lad93]

Jesus Christ it's not out for another 2 years

 

[chaseter]

Some believe that studios get more of their dollar back in US returns as opposed to foreign returns. Even if this is the case most films do twice as well abroad so I would give them equal billing.

There is no belief, it's fact.

 

[Just one more]

The GA don't feel as burned as you think. Audience ratings as fairly good, only critics and hardcore fans are the ones who rate it lowly.

Both Audience and Critics ratings lower than SM3 and I think we all know how much hate that movie gets here

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Both Audience and Critics ratings lower than SM3 and I think we all know how much hate that movie gets here

I think what is important is how much it turned people off of Spidey. Now we could say, TASM was a reboot, of course it will do worse. But with 5 years of inflation and 3D, it was easily the lowest grossing film in the series. Well, until TASM2. And TASM2 is being received in a worse fashion then Spidey 3 in all terms. Will see what that does for TASM3.

 

[KDM1986]

Honestly this series could use a shot in the arm. As far as I'm concerned it's been two subpar films in a row and if Webb is back for the third I won't be seeing it in theaters. Dont get me wrong the movies haven't been terrible or unwatchable but they definitely are flawed. Hopefully Sony can right the ship cause at this point i am starting to have doubts about them being able too.

 

[jmc]

I'm going to say something somewhat controversial. As much as most people want the rights to revert back to Marvel I truly think Sony has to stick it out with Spider-Man and here's why - the genre needs the competition. If X-Men DoFP has shown me anything is that franchises can make a turn around when given to the right people, the follow on effect being also that a good film series will keep the other studios in check and give the audience diversity. The worse thing that can happen is Marvel getting the rights back to X-Men, F4 and Spider-Man, because it will only leave WB as the alternative. It may not be what fans want or what Spider-Man needs, but I believe it's good for the genre for Sony to retain the rights. At the moment they've got some soul searching to do with regards to the next film, they have to look at what they have not what they wish they had. Fox has turned the corner with X-Men, Sony can do it too.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't really want Spidey to revert back, as I think he'd possibly "get in the way". On the otherhand, I'd really like some great Spidey films.

But if Sony is going to "stick it out" they need to rethink their whole model. And right now, they seem stuck. I think their biggest problem is they already played the "reboot" card. They already had their "fresh start". And well it hasn't exactly gone for the better. Right now they seem "stuck" with TASM series. They can't possibly cancel TASM3. They simply don't have another card to play. But what real chance is their that TASM3 "turns it around"? We still have most of the same creative and money men in place. We still have a Peter that for one reason or another, the audience hasn't really grabbed onto. We have two films that have hit with a whimper by all accounts, at least for Spidey.

TASM3 almost has no shot here. Even if it is great, it has to deal with the series bagged, and well, what does it truly lead to?

 

[spider-neil]

I'm going to say something somewhat controversial. As much as most people want the rights to revert back to Marvel I truly think Sony has to stick it out with Spider-Man and here's why - the genre needs the competition. If X-Men DoFP has shown me anything is that franchises can make a turn around when given to the right people, the follow on effect being also that a good film series will keep the other studios in check and give the audience diversity. The worse thing that can happen is Marvel getting the rights back to X-Men, F4 and Spider-Man, because it will only leave WB as the alternative. It may not be what fans want or what Spider-Man needs, but I believe it's good for the genre for Sony to retain the rights. At the moment they've got some soul searching to do with regards to the next film, they have to look at what they have not what they wish they had. Fox has turned the corner with X-Men, Sony can do it too.

I think this summer has been great with 3 superhero movies and all of them vastly different in tone. I've thoroughly enjoyed all 3 movies.
That said, If Marvel gained the Spidey rights I would be able to see a Spidey/Daredevil/Punisher match up. Spidey in the Avengers and there may also be a Spidey TV series on the cards. So solo big budget movies or Spidey in Marvel's hands is all the same to me. The character is way too big to be shelved for any significant amount of time.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Sony has indeed dug themselves in a hole. This series didn't have much hope in the first when business men that can't even do smart business interfere with the creative process

and regardless of Webb's love and relatively great understanding of the character, hiring him wasn't a good move for business either. Getting an outrageously inexperiences director to handle a Spider-man movie? they clearly don't have much respect for the property, at this point it's not even about doing good business anymore, it's merely just a desperate attempt to keep Sony Pictures from going fully bankrupt

which is hilariously ironic since according to Webb, in this series everything in Oscorp is made to keep Norman Osborn alive when the Spider-man movie licence is there just to keep Sony Pictures alive

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Sony has indeed dug themselves in a hole. This series didn't have much hope in the first when business men that can't even do smart business interfere with the creative process

and regardless of Webb's love and relatively great understanding of the character, hiring him wasn't a good move for business either. Getting an outrageously inexperiences director to handle a Spider-man movie? they clearly don't have much respect for the property, at this point it's not even about doing good business anymore, it's merely just a desperate attempt to keep Sony Pictures from going fully bankrupt

which is hilariously ironic since according to Webb, in this series everything in Oscorp is made to keep Norman Osborn alive when the Spider-man movie licence is there just to keep Sony Pictures alive

I honestly don't think it is a lack of respect for Spidey. It is money men trying to do what they are suppose to do. Make money. They just don't seem to understand how to make Spidey work right now in the world of the Avengers and BvS. And it isn't like they can do much about it. They don't have the potential to pull off those big crossover moves. What I think is a big mistake is attempting to produce these crossovers artificially.