The Amazing Spider-Man 2 will the amazing spiderman 3 fail?

[spider-neil]

I honestly don't think it is a lack of respect for Spidey. It is money men trying to do what they are suppose to do. Make money. They just don't seem to understand how to make Spidey work right now in the world of the Avengers and BvS. And it isn't like they can do much about it. They don't have the potential to pull off those big crossover moves. What I think is a big mistake is attempting to produce these crossovers artificially.

To be fair to Sony, Superman and Spider-Man are currently in the exact same position but the major difference is WB can insert Batman into the Superman sequel and watch it canter past a billion dollars. That isn't business savvy on WB part, that is having a stable of globally recognizable super heroes or rather having THE biggest superhero on the planet in your portfolio. You could stick Batman or Iron Man into ASM3 and you'd get a similar boost.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

To be fair to Sony, Superman and Spider-Man are currently in the exact same position but the major difference is WB can insert Batman into the Superman sequel and watch it canter past a billion dollars. That isn't business savvy on WB part, that is having a stable of globally recognizable super heroes or rather having THE biggest superhero on the planet in your portfolio. You could stick Batman or Iron Man into ASM3 and you'd get a similar boost.

That is why it is important to know what you have, and to use that to your advantage.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

That is why it is important to know what you have, and to use that to your advantage.

yeah, they should've just added Ghost Rider in TASM, the profits would've sky rocketed for sure

 

[DarthSkywalker]

yeah, they should've just added Ghost Rider in TASM, the profits would've sky rocketed for sure

Spidey has plenty of characters to play with. The Sinister Six inside of a main Spider-Man series is not a bad idea. It is in fact a fantastic idea imo. The problem has been how they are getting there.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Agreed. I think there is a GREAT film about Spider-Man fighting the Sinister Six. However, I don't think that movie includes the team being Oscopr rejects and getting a solo film that has nothing to do with Spider-Man (especially about the team being REDEEMED).

 

[spider-neil]

That is why it is important to know what you have, and to use that to your advantage.

The difference Sony has to build up S6 and Venom. Batman is already a global star. I have no doubt whatsoever that if Sony had another comic book global star they would team that star up with Spidey. As it is they have to 'create' global stars.

But it isn't all doom and gloom as Marvel had to build up Thor, IM and Cap. Trouble is these are colourful heroes where as Venom is a anti hero (look at the returns of say, Punisher) and S6 are villains, I don't even have another movie as a comparison.

 

[spider-neil]

(especially about the team being REDEEMED).

Speculation, your honor! Move to strike.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Speculation, your honor! Move to strike.

Motion denied!!!!

Seriously, I'm going by what has been said about it in interviews.

 

[spider-neil]

Motion denied!!!!

t:

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Agreed. I think there is a GREAT film about Spider-Man fighting the Sinister Six. However, I don't think that movie includes the team being Oscopr rejects and getting a solo film that has nothing to do with Spider-Man (especially about the team being REDEEMED).

I honestly don't think the Oscorp reject idea is all that bad, but they went about it in such a messy way. Norman "creating" a few of members, and teaming up with other baddies from the wild has a real appeal to it imo. But they have got the mixture all wrong imo. It is so piecemeal, and their need to avoid Harry and Norman because they were in the first series, really makes it feel rushed and underdeveloped imo.

So, TASM3 is being built upon poor foundations imo. The reason people came out for The last Potter, is because they cared. They loved those characters, and while none of the films was perfect, it was quite the foundation to build the finale on. The same applies to the Avengers. Think of the anticipation for TDKR. Heck, the first Spidey series.

TASM3 is going to be missing that.

Speculation, your honor! Move to strike.

Then why make a Sinister Six film? Serious question. If they aren't the heroes, how in the heck do you sell that? When I first heard they were making a Sinister Six film, I swear I thought that was going to be the name of the movie in which Spidey fought the Sinister Six for the first time. Never in my wildest dreams did I think they were going to make a film where they were the focus, the protagonist.

The difference Sony has to build up S6 and Venom. Batman is already a global star. I have no doubt whatsoever that if Sony had another comic book global star they would team that star up with Spidey. As it is they have to 'create' global stars.

But it isn't all doom and gloom as Marvel had to build up Thor, IM and Cap. Trouble is these are colourful heroes where as Venom is a anti hero (look at the returns of say, Punisher) and S6 are villains, I don't even have another movie as a comparison.

Why? Why do they need to build up Venom or the Sinister Six in that manner?

 

[spider-neil]

Motion denied!!!!

Seriously, I'm going by what has been said about it in interviews.

Sigh...well let's hope it is a good redemptive story. Look at Attack the Block, a group of absolute THUGS at the start of the movie and by the end of the movie you are rooting for them. So it can be done well.

 

[LizardMan07]

Yeah, I'm a little concerned about TASM3, I think it CAN succeed, but it is beyond how they can achieve that.

In all honesty, it might be better just to kill spider-man at the end of this film and send it down to Marvel, maybe they can save the spider-man brand.

MOST people weren't impressed with the franchise, makes me sad.

 

[spider-neil]

Then why make a Sinister Six film? Serious question. If they aren't the heroes, how in the heck do you sell that? When I first heard they were making a Sinister Six film, I swear I thought that was going to be the name of the movie in which Spidey fought the Sinister Six for the first time. Never in my wildest dreams did I think they were going to make a film where they were the focus, the protagonist.

My objection was merely that the movie doesn't have to be a redemption story especially seeing as Goddard made the subversive movie Cabin in the Woods which turns expectations on their head. But Spier-Fan has since said that is the road they are taking. We'll see if that is the case with the final product.

Why? Why do they need to build up Venom or the Sinister Six in that manner?

They need to build them up as the GA have no idea who they are and the people who know who they are aren't going to make a dent in the BO of those movies.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I honestly don't think the Oscorp reject idea is all that bad, but they went about it in such a messy way. Norman "creating" a few of members, and teaming up with other baddies from the wild has a real appeal to it imo. But they have got the mixture all wrong imo. It is so piecemeal, and their need to avoid Harry and Norman because they were in the first series, really makes it feel rushed and underdeveloped imo.

So, TASM3 is being built upon poor foundations imo. The reason people came out for The last Potter, is because they cared. They loved those characters, and while none of the films was perfect, it was quite the foundation to build the finale on. The same applies to the Avengers. Think of the anticipation for TDKR. Heck, the first Spidey series.

TASM3 is going to be missing that.

Oh, I agree that TASM3 isn't built on a strong foundation. If people cared more about this Spidey series, the grosses wouldn't be so low.

But, I don't entirely agree that the Oscorp idea is really good. Honestly, I think it makes the whole idea feel unoriginal. What made the SS great in the comic is these were villains we had come to know teaming up for a common goal. By having Oscorp forge oddball abominations of science for the sole purpose of killing Spider-Man, you're just creating an army of glorified henchmen that the audience has no loyalty to or reason to care about them, sans maybe the 1 or 2 well developed members the team will have. Also, this idea seems very TV-ish in a bad way. Think of something like Smallville in the early seasons. Clark just fought the meteor freak of the week. The Spidey villains of this series sort of feel the same way, especially when they are all tied to the same evil empire.

Then why make a Sinister Six film? Serious question. If they aren't the heroes, how in the heck do you sell that? When I first heard they were making a Sinister Six film, I swear I thought that was going to be the name of the movie in which Spidey fought the Sinister Six for the first time. Never in my wildest dreams did I think they were going to make a film where they were the focus, the protagonist.

I think they'd be better off splitting TASM3 into 2 films, and making them TASM3 and have those events culminate in Sinister Six. Not just give them a formal film having nothing to do with Spider-Man.

 

[spider-neil]

I thought Oscorp as the hub of all evil worked brilliantly in Spectacular Spider-Man.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Sigh...well let's hope it is a good redemptive story. Look at Attack the Block, a group of absolute THUGS at the start of the movie and by the end of the movie you are rooting for them. So it can be done well.

I don't think it CAN'T be done. The film does have the benefit of having Drew Goddard in the director's chair. Honestly, how well he does with that film likely tells us more about whether TASM/TASM2 can be blamed on Webb or not. We know Goddard has talent, so if he doesn't deliver with the same producers, that will speak volumes about Sony in regard to this whole series.

 

[jmc]

I don't really want Spidey to revert back, as I think he'd possibly "get in the way". On the otherhand, I'd really like some great Spidey films.

But if Sony is going to "stick it out" they need to rethink their whole model. And right now, they seem stuck. I think their biggest problem is they already played the "reboot" card. They already had their "fresh start". And well it hasn't exactly gone for the better. Right now they seem "stuck" with TASM series. They can't possibly cancel TASM3. They simply don't have another card to play. But what real chance is their that TASM3 "turns it around"? We still have most of the same creative and money men in place. We still have a Peter that for one reason or another, the audience hasn't really grabbed onto. We have two films that have hit with a whimper by all accounts, at least for Spidey.

TASM3 almost has no shot here. Even if it is great, it has to deal with the series bagged, and well, what does it truly lead to?

Well here's a suggestion. What if Sony were to bring Raimi back into the fold?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I thought Oscorp as the hub of all evil worked brilliantly in Spectacular Spider-Man.

For TV that is fine because they also dedicated different episodes to those characters in the team, and grant them depth that way. In film, they can't do that because you don't have episodes to build characters. They have 2+hrs, wo what you see is effectively what you get. You can only focus on so many characters in a movie. This is sort of my problem. I only see the SS turning into 2-3 important members, and then 3 characters that are just silly eye candy like Rhino that have no depth.

 

[spider-neil]

I don't think it CAN'T be done. The film does have the benefit of having Drew Goddard in the director's chair. Honestly, how well he does with that film likely tells us more about whether TASM/TASM2 can be blamed on Webb or not. We know Goddard has talent, so if he doesn't deliver with the same producers, that will speak volumes about Sony in regard to this whole series.

You could argue that Sony are more willing to be hands off on a spin off than their cash cow.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You could argue that Sony are more willing to be hands off on a spin off than their cash cow.

I would normally agree, but the film will feature 6 characters with super powers, and may or may not connect with TASM later on. This won't be a cheap investment, so I am expecting them to be firm with it. I think Venom may be offered more creative freedom than this will.

 

[spider-neil]

For TV that is fine because they also dedicated different episodes to those characters in the team, and grant them depth that way. In film, they can't do that because you don't have episodes to build characters. They have 2+hrs, wo what you see is effectively what you get. You can only focus on so many characters in a movie. This is sort of my problem. I only see the SS turning into 2-3 important members, and then 3 characters that are just silly eye candy like Rhino that have no depth.

I agree. I think they should have binned the origin and condensed the parents storyline into 10 minutes of 'Oscorp do bad things to people' which would have given so much more time to flesh out the Oscorp villains.
Sony have the opportunity now to do that with S6 without bogging down ASM3 with origins and back stories.

 

[spider-neil]

I would normally agree, but the film will feature 6 characters with super powers, and may or may not connect with TASM later on. This won't be a cheap investment, so I am expecting them to be firm with it. I think Venom may be offered more creative freedom than this will.

Sony could concentrate on human looking characters or if they extreme features give them a 'human' mood. Try and ground the movie in reality so the GA can latch onto these characters and care about them.

 

[Spider-knight]

Sony has indeed dug themselves in a hole. This series didn't have much hope in the first when business men that can't even do smart business interfere with the creative process

and regardless of Webb's love and relatively great understanding of the character, hiring him wasn't a good move for business either. Getting an outrageously inexperiences director to handle a Spider-man movie? they clearly don't have much respect for the property, at this point it's not even about doing good business anymore, it's merely just a desperate attempt to keep Sony Pictures from going fully bankrupt

which is hilariously ironic since according to Webb, in this series everything in Oscorp is made to keep Norman Osborn alive when the Spider-man movie licence is there just to keep Sony Pictures alive

have you seen the deleted scenes and pre visualizations. webb isn't even a bad director nor bad with spiderman. it's sony's fault for tampering with the film. infact, i believ peter i much better in the director's cut of this film.

but yeah, sony dug themselves in a hole for not introducing the rest of the sinister 6 in spiderman films before their spinoff. unless they create some webisodes i think they're safe but if they tampered with them then sony will lose it's credibility. sony needs to give creators some freedom. i mean why you think the MCU did it better in the first place?

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Spidey has plenty of characters to play with. The Sinister Six inside of a main Spider-Man series is not a bad idea. It is in fact a fantastic idea imo. The problem has been how they are getting there.

I was being sarcastic, I know that Spider-man does have a very viable roster of characters for an expanded Spider-man universe

heck, I wouldn't mind seeing the astral guy from that one story, the guy who could just decide when his body is solid mass and when it's not

 

[DarthSkywalker]

They need to build them up as the GA have no idea who they are and the people who know who they are aren't going to make a dent in the BO of those movies.

And what is wrong with them doing that the old fashion way? Spinoffs are so unnecessary here. They could of had 3 films to build to the Sinister Six, before a big 4th film blow off. You can build up the characters there. The problem now is they haven't.