Civil War Winter is Coming - The Bucky Barnes Thread - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]481965[/split]

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Assuming a return of the Winter Soldier, since his storyline isn't finished, here's a thread to discuss everything about James Buchanan Barnes and his part in Cap 3

 

[Silvermoon]

Apologies if someone has already addressed this, but has there ever been an explanation as to why Bucky didnt show any powers during TFA ? Supposedly he gained powers during his capture by Hydra, but if so, why didnt they manifest ? I cant imagine he wouldnt have noticed.

There hasn't been anything officially said.

My personal headcanon (so feel free to disregard it if you want, I don't mind), is that because Zola's version of the serum was (likely) an inferior form of the serum (probably based off of samples taken from Red Skull) it's effects on Bucky didn't 'kick in' immediately. That either it was active only *just enough* to allow him to survive the fall (and then Zola gave him additional serum during his subsequent transformation into the Winter Soldier). And/Or it took the shock and trauma of the fall from the train to kick start Zola's version of the serum into full gear.

Again, that's just my personal speculation.

 

[Anita18]

Another explanation is that Bucky is a sniper and depends on firearms, and never had reasons to directly engage anyone hand-to-hand where his super-soldier-ness would show.

Another possibility (and my personal headcanon) is that Bucky is still traumatized by his torture under Zola, but doesn't want to show that anything's wrong with him. Otherwise he'll be made to leave Steve and the Howling Commandos.

Man, we really needed to get more from Bucky's POV in TFA.

 

[MarvelMayhem]

Another explanation is that Bucky is a sniper and depends on firearms, and never had reasons to directly engage anyone hand-to-hand where his super-soldier-ness would show.

Another possibility (and my personal headcanon) is that Bucky is still traumatized by his torture under Zola, but doesn't want to show that anything's wrong with him. Otherwise he'll be made to leave Steve and the Howling Commandos.

Man, we really needed to get more from Bucky's POV in TFA.

watching TFA after TWS came out I thought more about the scene where Steve gets Bucky out of the prison ward and I noticed how much Bucky was asking him questions about steve transformation. Is it permanent? and a few other questions. I kind of suspect now Bucky might at that time thought Zola had changed him into a super soldier but never said anything to Steve directly. Its kind of crazy thinking that Buck was a prisoner of war, experimented on but just went back to work. Never even got himself some R&R.

 

[Schlosser85]

watching TFA after TWS came out I thought more about the scene where Steve gets Bucky out of the prison ward and I noticed how much Bucky was asking him questions about steve transformation. Is it permanent? and a few other questions. I kind of suspect now Bucky might at that time thought Zola had changed him into a super soldier but never said anything to Steve directly. Its kind of crazy thinking that Buck was a prisoner of war, experimented on but just went back to work. Never even got himself some R&R.

He wanted to stick by Steve, I think.

 

[hafizbat]

HYDRA had him after the fall as well. It's perfectly possible that all of his enhancement came after that.

 

[Anita18]

HYDRA had him after the fall as well. It's perfectly possible that all of his enhancement came after that.

Only Steve, or someone like Steve, could have survived the fall from the train in TFA. That's how Steve reasons why Bucky is still alive, in TWS.

In TFA, Zola also definitely took a special interest in Bucky when Steve frees him and they all meet on the bridge. He's probably like, "Hey, this one is still standing!"

 

[yllum]

bucky probably have taken more serum from zola after buck was taken in the secone time (after his arm is gone) .looking at all these movies, I would say bucky power level is only sightly below Cap and bp, his serum is porbably not that much inferior to that of cap.

the mcu version really upped WS Power level up by a huge margin as compared to its comics counterpart. The comics version is not a enchanced/serumed human. Just a normal guy with a really awesome metal arm.

 

[FN-2187]

bucky probably have taken more serum from zola after buck was taken in the secone time (after his arm is gone) .looking at all these movies, I would say bucky power level is only sightly below Cap and bp, his serum is porbably not that much inferior to that of cap.

the mcu version really upped WS Power level up by a huge margin as compared to its comics counterpart. The comics version is not a enchanced/serumed human. Just a normal guy with a really awesome metal arm.

WS is definitely enhanced, that's how he survived the fall, but I don't think his power level is close to Cap's. Cap holds back when he fights him because he knows it's Bucky.

In TWS Cap gets serious in the helicarrier when he needs to get the microchip; he holds Bucky down and even breaks his arm. The way it happens, it looks like he was holding back up until that point.

 

[ARA]

I Like Sebastian Stan, but Bucky didn't really feel like a character. He felt like a reason to create strife, like he didn't have an arc.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

WS is definitely enhanced, that's how he survived the fall, but I don't think his power level is close to Cap's. Cap holds back when he fights him because he knows it's Bucky.

In TWS Cap gets serious in the helicarrier when he needs to get the microchip; he holds Bucky down and even breaks his arm. The way it happens, it looks like he was holding back up until that point.

The fight scene on the bridge begs to differ. They went out of their way to make them look evenly matched. Cap won the final fight because if he didn't, it wouldn't have ended well for millions of people.

 

[Schlosser85]

Yea Cap was barely holding his own in the street fight in TWS, and that was before he found out it was Bucky.

 

[TalismanRing]

Cap had just been missled over a bridge and through a bus and he wasn't armed with guns, knives and a metal arm. We see in the first fight on the ship that he also take a bit of time to learn his opponents fighting style then incorporates it and wins even though if Steve had been going full out it would have been over in half a second.

The WS is also a finely honed single minded killing machine while Steve is a fighter more than a killer who has probably trained himself not to go all out in a fight as to avoid killing all his opponents. There's a different mindset at play. (This a mindset that kind of existed pre serum with Bucky being a sniper and as we know the serum enhances everything already there)

Think about what the carnage in the elevator would have looked like if Steve was just snapping limbs or kicking as hard as possible and sending people flying through windows and ceilings with boot sized holes in them. (like that truck he kicked in CW). Whereas the WS thinks nothing of kicking people into planes or snapping necks for people who are just in his way..

When push came to shove though Steve broke Bucky's arm and choked him (if he had a killer mindset and it wasn't Bucky he'd have just snapped his neck) out then lifted a beam off him that Bucky couldn't even after he'd been shot and stabbed.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Because the hero has to win not because he's "drastically" stronger than Bucky.

 

[TalismanRing]

Because the hero has to win not because he's "drastically" stronger than Bucky.

More like the fight lasts longer because the hero can't win that easily - he has to make it look like a bit of a struggle. Hence Steve's fights against the Leaper and Rumlow lasting longer than .2 seconds

We've yet to see Bucky do anything strength wise approached lifting a multi ton beam, punching a submarine, holding back a helicopter or throwing a motorcycle. And if he has to punch though a moving car etc he uses his metal arm not his flesh.

Besides, if Steve fell from a moving train a few hundred feet below he probably wouldn't have lost his arm.

 

[Tvar10]

I always thought Bucky got some serum in TFA when he was captured by Hydra. Didnt they say they were doing experiments on him?

Im thinking that he had some sort of super soldier serum in him, but not enough to show a difference, thats why he survived the fall. then Im thinking when they found him they just boosted it up and brainwashed him

He goes toe to toe with Cap when most of the thugs he fights are one and done...but he did have a little trouble with Batroc so who knows?

Its probably just movie magic or something

 

[MarvelMayhem]

I think in the MCU Bucky is extremely close to Cap in strength and endurance, speed. Not quite as strong maybe but pretty close. Plus the arm does give him an advantage as Cap's Shield gives to Steve. At least while being chased by BP and Cap that all three are close in ability.
In the comic books didn't Bucky get the Infinity formula...aka Super Soldier Serum too? Could be wrong its been forever for me and comics.

 

[TalismanRing]

Bucky in the comics is a regular human with a metal arm and lots of skill killing people. He also ages at the regular rate outside of stasis which is why he no longer looks 16.

BW like Nick Fury has a form of the Infinity Formula in the comics but that's to do with explaining why they don't age (or used to in NF's case) not extra abilities.

 

[Tvar10]

I think in the MCU Bucky is extremely close to Cap in strength and endurance, speed. Not quite as strong maybe but pretty close. Plus the arm does give him an advantage as Cap's Shield gives to Steve. At least while being chased by BP and Cap that all three are close in ability.
In the comic books didn't Bucky get the Infinity formula...aka Super Soldier Serum too? Could be wrong its been forever for me and comics.

During the Fear Itself/Original Sin storyline Bucky was Captain America and fighting Red Skulls daughter Sinn who had some special alien hammer or something. And she put it through Buckys chest. It was believed by everyone that he died.

But it turns out that he didn't die and his heart was still beating. So fury and black widow decided to give him the infinity formula not knowing if it would prolong his death or help him recover faster which it did. Everyone still believed he was dead (which was a good thing because everyone was on him for his actions as Winter Soldier) so he stayed "dead" but was really alive and Steve became Captain America again and Bucky got his own solo Winter Soldier title and hunted down all the other sleepers.

So yes he has infinity formula in him now in the comics

 

[Schlosser85]

Bucky's strength level in the comics is irrelevant to a discussion of his strength in the MCU, where IMO he's obviously similar to Steve. In TWS he kicked a guy like 20 feet into a jet, and in Civil War he jumps down insane distances, runs faster than cars, and grabs a moving motorcycle out of midair.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

More like the fight lasts longer because the hero can't win that easily - he has to make it look like a bit of a struggle. Hence Steve's fights against the Leaper and Rumlow lasting longer than .2 seconds

We've yet to see Bucky do anything strength wise approached lifting a multi ton beam, punching a submarine, holding back a helicopter or throwing a motorcycle. And if he has to punch though a moving car etc he uses his metal arm not his flesh.

Besides, if Steve fell from a moving train a few hundred feet below he probably wouldn't have lost his arm.

We don't know exactly when bucky's kicked in. And tbh there's nothing to suggest that at those heights and without his shield cap wouldn't have lost a limb. Also Bucky has been in like two movies as the winter soldier whereas cap has been in like 5 as a super soldier. Also Bucky catching that motorcycle mid air jumping on to it strongly suggests he'd also be able to throw it.

 

[Tvar10]

On a side note. does anyone know how they made the arm for the movie? I know a lot of it was CG but i know a lot of it wasnt too. I watched an interview with Stan the other day and he had the arm on and it looked like one piece that could bend with his movements.

Costume design wise.... like the materials, etc

 

[Tg11]

But Bucky's arm is vibranium same thing as Cap's shield but at the same time whatever thing that was special about Cap came from a bottle just like how anything special about Bucky came from that same serum

 

[TalismanRing]

We don't know exactly when bucky's kicked in. And tbh there's nothing to suggest that at those heights and without his shield cap wouldn't have lost a limb. Also Bucky has been in like two movies as the winter soldier whereas cap has been in like 5 as a super soldier. Also Bucky catching that motorcycle mid air jumping on to it strongly suggests he'd also be able to throw it.

Eh catching or stopping vs lifting and throwing a motorcycle aren't the same. Bottom line, he couldn't lift the beam off himself when he was in full WS mode because he couldn't use his robotic arm. In full WS killing mode he couldn't beat Steve who could have killed him.

Also, another big hint: When Steve wanted to put him out of commission in CW

Spoiler

he put his robotic arm in a vice because that's the truly powerful one. Also, when they put him under they don't repair the robotic arm, they leave it off him.

We've seen Steve fall out of a Hellicarrier sans shield after also being shot, stabbed and repeatedly smashed in the face by serum enhanced soldier with a metal arm and days later not have a scratch on him. He gets blasted in the stomach by a Chitaru continues fighting and then has Shwarma. He routinely jumps out of airplanes without a parachute. He crashed a plane and was frozen - and not by scientists - and was fine when defrosted 70 years later without even losing a frostbite damaged toe.