Civil War Winter is Coming - The Bucky Barnes Thread - Part 1

[TalismanRing]

But Bucky's arm is vibranium same thing as Cap's shield but at the same time whatever thing that was special about Cap came from a bottle just like how anything special about Bucky came from that same serum

His arm isn't vibranium.

And everything special about Steve was already there.

The serum as Erskine says only enhances what's already there which is why we see from it and it's knock offs vastly different physical changes ranging from Steve to Red Skull to Hulk to Abomination to Bucky and the

Spoiler

other Winter Soldiers who like Bucky look about the same as pre-serum

 

[Anita18]

On a side note. does anyone know how they made the arm for the movie? I know a lot of it was CG but i know a lot of it wasnt too. I watched an interview with Stan the other day and he had the arm on and it looked like one piece that could bend with his movements.

Costume design wise.... like the materials, etc

Not a costume expert, but I imagine it's some kind of material similar to a wetsuit, with a metallic finish. That way it doesn't wrinkle that much. And during the press tour, Stan repeatedly mentioned the huge amount of lube it took to get his arm in it. Clearly it doesn't stretch that much either.

Eh catching or stopping vs lifting and throwing a motorcycle aren't the same. Bottom line, he couldn't lift the beam off himself when he was in full WS mode because he couldn't use his robotic arm. In full WS killing mode he couldn't beat Steve who could have killed him.

Also, another big hint: When Steve wanted to put him out of commission in CW

Spoiler

he put his robotic arm in a vice because that's the truly powerful one. Also, when they put him under they don't repair the robotic arm, they leave it off him.

We've seen Steve fall out of a Hellicarrier sans shield after also being shot, stabbed and repeatedly smashed in the face by serum enhanced soldier with a metal arm and days later not have a scratch on him. He gets blasted in the stomach by a Chitaru continues fighting and then has Shwarma. He routinely jumps out of airplanes without a parachute. He crashed a plane and was frozen - and not by scientists - and was fine when defrosted 70 years later without even losing a frostbite damaged toe.

I don't think Steve could have lifted that beam off himself either, because his arms were pinned down and he couldn't get enough leverage. Steve's strong, but he's not Hulk strong.

And yeah, the metal arm was in the vise because Bucky could destroy the vise with the metal arm, if his flesh arm had been the one restrained I don't think Steve could have punched his way out of that either. He's not invulnerable like Superman, he can be punctured.

Bucky-as-WS DID put Steve in the hospital though, which never happens. So that's still kind of a big deal.

 

[Tvar10]

Not a costume expert, but I imagine it's some kind of material similar to a wetsuit, with a metallic finish. That way it doesn't wrinkle that much. And during the press tour, Stan repeatedly mentioned the huge amount of lube it took to get his arm in it. Clearly it doesn't stretch that much either.

Makes sense, just curious...havent seen much production design on this and its one of the coolest things about the character IMO....ive seen more stuff about his mask from WS than his arm

 

[TalismanRing]

Steve isn't the Hulk but from what we've seen on screen he's stronger than Bucky. Kind of like Spider-Man isn't strong as the Hulk but he's stronger than Steve. We've seen Steve rip open tanks, punch submarines, throw motorcycles, kick in trucks and hold down a helicopter. I don't think moving the beam he was pinned under would have been that hard or wrecking a vice.

Steve just laid there not resisting and let him put him in the hospital. Even then with all the face smashing he didn't even knock him out let alone kill him. Whereas Steve broke his arm and then choked him unconscious while WS was actively fighting. Weak sauce.

 

[Anita18]

Steve just laid there not resisting and let him put him in the hospital. Even then with all the face smashing he didn't even knock him out let alone kill him. Whereas Steve broke his arm and then choked him unconscious while WS was actively fighting. Weak sauce.

Some people's headcanons (on Tumblr ) say that Bucky was struggling with the brainwashing during that fight. Cause history's greatest assassin taking 3 direct shots at someone and none of them being close to a headshot, is a little too convenient there.

But yeah, I do agree that Steve is stronger than Bucky. But I think we can all agree that Bucky is not normal either.

 

[Tvar10]

Bucky gave Cap more of a fight that hes ever gotten in the MCU. Red Skull didnt do much fighting (hes a super soldier), the hydra agents didnt do much, Batroc held his own for a little bit then got whooped, the Tchikari or whatever were defeated with one punch, Ultron's bots werent much of a threat. Ultron gave him a good run but hes a robot...Stark held his own for a while but he was in full Iron Man mode...Crossbones got in a few good punches but thats it......

Bucky (with the exception of Black Panther for a little and SpiderMan who I'm not counting because it was quick) was the only one that went toe to toe with him in the movies without any armor twice. He held his own when they fought on the highway even when Cap didnt realize he was Bucky. But on the helicarrier Cap even said "Millions of people will die if i dont take you out" (something along those lines) so he was still going pretty strong at him without trying to kill him...Bucky still put up a good fight for a while against someone with Super Soldier Serum..

so hes not as strong as Steve, but hes not a regular guy, and probably has some type of serum in him

 

[hafizbat]

Bucky is clearly superhuman and extremely dangerous, but Cap is just a cut above.

He was holding off both War Machine and Black Panther by himself at one point. I just can't see Bucky doing that.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Bucky for sure is enhanced in some way with some kind of knockoff Erskine formula.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Steve isn't the Hulk but from what we've seen on screen he's stronger than Bucky. Kind of like Spider-Man isn't strong as the Hulk but he's stronger than Steve. We've seen Steve rip open tanks, punch submarines, throw motorcycles, kick in trucks and hold down a helicopter. I don't think moving the beam he was pinned under would have been that hard or wrecking a vice.

Steve just laid there not resisting and let him put him in the hospital. Even then with all the face smashing he didn't even knock him out let alone kill him. Whereas Steve broke his arm and then choked him unconscious while WS was actively fighting. Weak sauce.

All you're doing is reciting Steve's feats to establish that yes, he is strong. Nothing has indicated Steve is strong than Bucky. If he is - it's semantics and mostly relies on what the writers need in that moment.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Bucky for sure is enhanced in some way with some kind of knockoff Erskine formula.

Both Steve and Bucky went toe-to-toe twice in CA:TWS. Bucky held up just fine. Both guys had moments where they literally tossed eacher - Bucky in the first meeting grabbed him by the throat and threw Steve over a car. Then in the final showdown, Cap picked him up by the throat and put a WWE slam down on him.

When the two of them fight it will always come down to strategy and leverage.

 

[MarvelMayhem]

IN the MCU Bucky is probably slightly less than Steve in strength and endurance but not by a huge amount. He holds his own with him during the fight sequences and he literally almost outran both Cap and BP. That's not normal. Kind of hope if he gets out of cryo BP hooks up with a sweet vibrarium arm. He is going to need it for Thanos. A new arm, no longer the 'arm of hydra', gives a very nice symbolic idea of a new life and a second chance. I really do think eventually in the overall scheme of the MCU the writers will make a connection between Bucky and training Red Room recruits--the BW. His main post and where the other Super Soldiers were housed was Siberia. The Russian connection just feels right.

 

[Anita18]

Both Steve and Bucky went toe-to-toe twice in CA:TWS. Bucky held up just fine. Both guys had moments where they literally tossed eacher - Bucky in the first meeting grabbed him by the throat and threw Steve over a car. Then in the final showdown, Cap picked him up by the throat and put a WWE slam down on him.

When the two of them fight it will always come down to strategy and leverage.

Steve being thrown like a ragdoll by other people (or rockets) will always be somehow hilarious to me. I feel like an awful person.

 

[Just_Human]

so why did BP's ring react to Bucky's metal arm?

 

[JtheDreamer]

so why did BP's ring react to Bucky's metal arm?

We don't know. I speculated vibranium/vibranium magnetic reaction in lieu of nothing else to go on. All I know is we got some kind of magnetism going on there.

 

[Silvermoon]

On a side note. does anyone know how they made the arm for the movie? I know a lot of it was CG but i know a lot of it wasnt too. I watched an interview with Stan the other day and he had the arm on and it looked like one piece that could bend with his movements.

Costume design wise.... like the materials, etc

Assuming they designed it/used the same material/techniques as they did for CA:The Winter Soldier....

---From the Art of Captain America: The Winter Soldier:

Shane Mahan, Physical Suit Effects Supervisor at Legacy Effects, describes the process of creating the Winter Soldier's arm from a life-cast of actor Sebastian Stan: "First, we do an exact mold of the actor's arm for the size and the dimension, and then we do a casting out of that. But we also took him to get a 3D scan of his arm so we had digital information as well as a hard, real-world casting to work from. We took the designs from Ryan Meinerding's design team, and then one of our digital artists here - Won-il Song - created a digital structure."

"I designed this to be a seamless forearm piece," Mahan continues. "And after the digital sculpture has been done, and the part has been grown and cleaned up, it matches up to a bicep piece..."

Legacy created two versions of the Winter Soldier's arm. "We made one from foam rubber with tracking markers on it for extreme action," Mahan says. "And then there were these arms made of urethane that were metalized and had less action mobility, but for certain shots looked reflective and really great."

I seem to recall interviews with Sebastian during The Winter Soldier where he said that - even though it had less mobility - he preferred the "hero" arm 'cause it looked so badass. Whether he continued to prefer it for CW...???

 

[Silvermoon]

so why did BP's ring react to Bucky's metal arm?

I still don't think it did. When I went to watch it for the 2nd time last Saturday I made sure to pay particular attention to that part in the Berlin compound. I still think that the sound being heard is simply the mechanics of Bucky's arm as it strains against T'Challa's strength, and any seeming 'rippling' effect (that I've seen some state they saw) was just the plates of his arm shifting and locking into place (we saw his arm do something similar in The Winter Soldier in the final helicarrier fight).

The way I see it, during the rooftop fight Bucky's primary goal was to get away (while not killing anyone) - he wasn't going all out and he actually doesn't use his metal/left arm against BP a lot on that roof (he primarily strikes at him with his normal right arm). At the Berlin compound, I think as T'Challa uses his right arm to try and force Bucky's metal left down, he's shocked because (in his berserker/assassin state) Bucky's not holding back and T'Challa is experiencing how strong that arm really is for the first time. He's not expecting it.

 

[JtheDreamer]

I still don't think it did. When I went to watch it for the 2nd time last Saturday I made sure to pay particular attention to that part in the Berlin compound. I still think that the sound being heard is simply the mechanics of Bucky's arm as it strains against T'Challa's strength, and any seeming 'rippling' effect (that I've seen some state they saw) was just the plates of his arm shifting and locking into place (we saw his arm do something similar in The Winter Soldier in the final helicarrier fight).

There is a weird vibration clearly seen in the air between the arm and the ring.

 

[yllum]

I still don't think it did. When I went to watch it for the 2nd time last Saturday I made sure to pay particular attention to that part in the Berlin compound. I still think that the sound being heard is simply the mechanics of Bucky's arm as it strains against T'Challa's strength, and any seeming 'rippling' effect (that I've seen some state they saw) was just the plates of his arm shifting and locking into place (we saw his arm do something similar in The Winter Soldier in the final helicarrier fight).

The way I see it, during the rooftop fight Bucky's primary goal was to get away (while not killing anyone) - he wasn't going all out and he actually doesn't use his metal/left arm against BP a lot on that roof (he primarily strikes at him with his normal right arm). At the Berlin compound, I think as T'Challa uses his right arm to try and force Bucky's metal left down, he's shocked because (in his berserker/assassin state) Bucky's not holding back and T'Challa is experiencing how strong that arm really is for the first time. He's not expecting it.

I agree..bucky metal arm is really Strong. His arm can even hold off iron man's in the last battle. If WS wanna go all out with the arm, I doubt tchalla can hold it.

Anyway it's hard to compare the strength level of all these character. .basically the stories decide how strong they are.

Unless we are talking about drastic power level differences. eg. Cap vs vision. . it is kinda pointless to debate who is stronger as there is no definite answer to them. The story written determine the outcome

 

[Anita18]

I still don't think it did. When I went to watch it for the 2nd time last Saturday I made sure to pay particular attention to that part in the Berlin compound. I still think that the sound being heard is simply the mechanics of Bucky's arm as it strains against T'Challa's strength, and any seeming 'rippling' effect (that I've seen some state they saw) was just the plates of his arm shifting and locking into place (we saw his arm do something similar in The Winter Soldier in the final helicarrier fight).

The way I see it, during the rooftop fight Bucky's primary goal was to get away (while not killing anyone) - he wasn't going all out and he actually doesn't use his metal/left arm against BP a lot on that roof (he primarily strikes at him with his normal right arm). At the Berlin compound, I think as T'Challa uses his right arm to try and force Bucky's metal left down, he's shocked because (in his berserker/assassin state) Bucky's not holding back and T'Challa is experiencing how strong that arm really is for the first time. He's not expecting it.

That's how I interpreted that too. T'Challa actually does look surprised at how strong Bucky's metal arm really is when he puts his mind to using it to its full potential. (And not caring about the consequences.)

 

[dax]

Bucky's strength level in the comics is irrelevant to a discussion of his strength in the MCU, where IMO he's obviously similar to Steve. In TWS he kicked a guy like 20 feet into a jet, and in Civil War he jumps down insane distances, runs faster than cars, and grabs a moving motorcycle out of midair.

He also puts up a fight with Iron Man. A single punch from Iron Man would've instantly killed any ordinary person but Bucky took those punches and brushed them off like they were dust.

 

[Tvar10]

Can we all just agree that Bucky is the man?

 

[yllum]

hehe..I would say winter soldier is the man! bucky, not so much.

 

[Anita18]

hehe..I would say winter soldier is the man! bucky, not so much.

Bucky still is. The guy would probably like nothing more than to just be someplace where nobody's trying to kill him, but he gets back into the fray to help Steve stop the bad guy. Then he sacrifices his own well-being again, to ensure he won't hurt any more innocent people.

It's not showy heroism, but it's still heroic.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I think his metallic arm will be reconstructed with vibranium when we see Bucky again now that he's in Wakanda.

 

[hafizbat]