With this new information....could this be the climatic Battle???

[War Party]

I don't think Gwen will die either, but I thought Robin's idea was pretty cool for the final fight.

 

[Pagrebo]

Gwen's not gonna die. So, please people, stop HOPING she will. She won't.

You are on a roll today my friend(that's unusual for you). Right again.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Where did that article come from... that sh:t cam out a while ago but can it really be legit 100%? It said "her characer is presumed to survive" or something... is it really 100%? I don't mind killing her off or MJ for that matter but it doesn't look like either will be the case due to the spoilers and the Q and A...

 

[Cmill216]

Honestly, as far as the future of the franchise goes, I am as uncertain about it as Sam seemed to be. I think they are packing this movie full, because Sony doesn't know if they truly want to go for 6 films. Maybe they want to get in while the franchise is hot, and not have to deal with possible future diminishing returns. Just go out with a bang, and exit stage left having made one damn good trilogy.

 

[Cmill216]

Where did that article come from... that sh:t cam out a while ago but can it really be legit 100%? It said "her characer is presumed to survive" or something... is it really 100%? I don't mind killing her off or MJ for that matter but it doesn't look like either will be the case due to the spoilers and the Q and A...

Check the first post of the "Bryce/Gwen" thread. I'm tired of copying the same s*** over and over and over again.

 

[War Party]

Honestly, as far as the future of the franchise goes, I am as uncertain about it as Sam seemed to be. I think they are packing this movie full, because Sony doesn't know if they truly want to go for 6 films. Maybe they want to get in while the franchise is hot, and not have to deal with possible future diminishing returns. Just go out with a bang, and exit stage left having made one damn good trilogy.

Well said.

 

[Pagrebo]

Check the first post of the "Bryce/Gwen" thread. I'm tired of copying the same s*** over and over and over again.

Feeling... hmmm... CRANKY?

 

[FaT_tONle]

Check the first post of the "Bryce/Gwen" thread. I'm tired of copying the same s*** over and over and over again.

I'm just saying... I'm too lazy to look it up but I am pretty sure it didn't come from Sony... I'm not saying Gwen will die... but why take it 100%... it don't matter to me regardless... I think both girls will probably be alive and well... just makes a lot of sense killing at least one of them off...

 

[FaT_tONle]

Honestly, as far as the future of the franchise goes, I am as uncertain about it as Sam seemed to be. I think they are packing this movie full, because Sony doesn't know if they truly want to go for 6 films. Maybe they want to get in while the franchise is hot, and not have to deal with possible future diminishing returns. Just go out with a bang, and exit stage left having made one damn good trilogy.

Thhat's why we won't see a cliff hanger... I agree that if they do want to go six movies... it will be two trilogies... new core characters and actors... you can't have some cliff hanger that leaves everything out in the open...

 

[Cmill216]

Continuing my "Future Films Rant" ():

People love to talk about future Spidey films, ONLY in terms of the villains (which proves most fanboys have no business giving their two cents about making films). In reality, it's all about the hero, and what the film's theme does to and for the hero.

Look at it like this (and I'll also use a non-Spidey example):

Spider-Man 1 - The origin
Spider-Man 2 - The "Spider-Man No More" storyline
Spider-Man 3 - The dark side of power/the symbiote

Now look at X-Men:

X-Men - The origin
X2 - The mutant registration act
X3 - The cure

Now, I'm not saying that this is all these franchises could have done. But you have to look at the big picture. You can't just say, "Well, they can have the Lizard in this film, and then Venom and Carnage, or Mysterio, and blah blah blah".

They've missed one of Spidey's defining arcs (The death of Gwen Stacy), but have already taken care of three others (The Goblins, the origin, and the "giving up of powers for personal wants").

I'd like to hear what LOGICAL places they can go from here. I'm not saying there aren't stories (there probably are), but are there stories available for them to truly continue to build upon the film legacy, or would it just become overkill? It's not about the villains. The villains just play their parts in the big thematic picture.

Case in point:

Why is Sandman here? Simple. Spider-Man physically defeated the Goblin and Doc Ock (he beat Norman down to the point where Norman had to essentially beg to get Spidey to stop, and Spidey fried Doc Ock and before he took off the mask could have finished Ock off). But in this film, what if Spidey faces a foe he can't physically defeat? Cue Sandman.

What does the Lizard bring to the table that we didn't see with Ock or Norman? That father figure thing? Done.

Mysterio? Please. Electro? His powers are too generic in the film world. Same goes for Mystique....I mean, Chameleon.

As I conclude this mess of a rant, I am not doubting that there will be an SM4. It wouldn't surprise me. But I don't see a whole lot of places for them to go. Just my opinion.

 

[Cmill216]

I'm just saying... I'm too lazy to look it up but I am pretty sure it didn't come from Sony...

It DID come from Sony, TO the Hollywood Reporter.

 

[War Party]

I always find myself agreeing with you cmill. Well most of the time.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Continuing my "Future Films Rant" ():

People love to talk about future Spidey films, ONLY in terms of the villains (which proves most fanboys have no business giving their two cents about making films). In reality, it's all about the hero, and what the film's theme does to and for the hero.

Look at it like this (and I'll also use a non-Spidey example):

Spider-Man 1 - The origin
Spider-Man 2 - The "Spider-Man No More" storyline
Spider-Man 3 - The dark side of power/the symbiote

Now look at X-Men:

X-Men - The origin
X2 - The mutant registration act
X3 - The cure

Now, I'm not saying that this is all these franchises could have done. But you have to look at the big picture. You can't just say, "Well, they can have the Lizard in this film, and then Venom and Carnage, or Mysterio, and blah blah blah".

They've missed one of Spidey's defining arcs (The death of Gwen Stacy), but have already taken care of three others (The Goblins, the origin, and the "giving up of powers for personal wants").

I'd like to hear what LOGICAL places they can go from here. I'm not saying there aren't stories (there probably are), but are there stories available for them to truly continue to build upon the film legacy, or would it just become overkill? It's not about the villains. The villains just play their parts in the big thematic picture.

Case in point:

Why is Sandman here? Simple. Spider-Man physically defeated the Goblin and Doc Ock (he beat Norman down to the point where Norman had to essentially beg to get Spidey to stop, and Spidey fried Doc Ock and before he took off the mask could have finished Ock off). But in this film, what if Spidey faces a foe he can't physically defeat? Cue Sandman.

What does the Lizard bring to the table that we didn't see with Ock or Norman? That father figure thing? Done.

Mysterio? Please. Electro? His powers are too generic in the film world. Same goes for Mystique....I mean, Chameleon.

As I conclude this mess of a rant, I am not doubting that there will be an SM4. It wouldn't surprise me. But I don't see a whole lot of places for them to go. Just my opinion.

Well said... but we were'nt really talking about the sequels in this thread... just wondering how the final battle might shape up... there are still a lot of stories to tell... you just got to introduce the characters... I think Lizard can stand alone with another villain in a future film... you can always setup guys like they did with Brock in SM3... maybe they'll do it with Quentin Beck in SM4/5... but yes... the story always revolves around the heo... but if you got the right guys around him you can keep the stories going...

 

[Cmill216]

Well said... but we were'nt really talking about the sequels in this thread... just wondering how the final battle might shape up... there are still a lot of stories to tell... you just got to introduce the characters... I think Lizard can stand alone with another villain in a future film... you can always setup guys like they did with Brock in SM3... maybe they'll do it with Quentin Beck in SM4/5... but yes... the story always revolves around the heo... but if you got the right guys around him you can keep the stories going...

Well, I appreciate the compliment (), but you kind of missed the point.

It's not about cliffhangers and "setting up Villain #3" or any of that. It's about the film. What is the film about?

Example: Batman Begins very smartly used the Scarecrow as a villain. Why? Because he operates on fear, one of the very themes of the film.

It's not about telling good "hero vs. villain" stories. The villains are pawns in the overall game of chess (and chess = the film).

 

[Pagrebo]

Continuing my "Future Films Rant" ():

People love to talk about future Spidey films, ONLY in terms of the villains (which proves most fanboys have no business giving their two cents about making films). In reality, it's all about the hero, and what the film's theme does to and for the hero.

Look at it like this (and I'll also use a non-Spidey example):

Spider-Man 1 - The origin
Spider-Man 2 - The "Spider-Man No More" storyline
Spider-Man 3 - The dark side of power/the symbiote

Now look at X-Men:

X-Men - The origin
X2 - The mutant registration act
X3 - The cure

Now, I'm not saying that this is all these franchises could have done. But you have to look at the big picture. You can't just say, "Well, they can have the Lizard in this film, and then Venom and Carnage, or Mysterio, and blah blah blah".

They've missed one of Spidey's defining arcs (The death of Gwen Stacy), but have already taken care of three others (The Goblins, the origin, and the "giving up of powers for personal wants").

I'd like to hear what LOGICAL places they can go from here. I'm not saying there aren't stories (there probably are), but are there stories available for them to truly continue to build upon the film legacy, or would it just become overkill? It's not about the villains. The villains just play their parts in the big thematic picture.

Case in point:

Why is Sandman here? Simple. Spider-Man physically defeated the Goblin and Doc Ock (he beat Norman down to the point where Norman had to essentially beg to get Spidey to stop, and Spidey fried Doc Ock and before he took off the mask could have finished Ock off). But in this film, what if Spidey faces a foe he can't physically defeat? Cue Sandman.

What does the Lizard bring to the table that we didn't see with Ock or Norman? That father figure thing? Done.

Mysterio? Please. Electro? His powers are too generic in the film world. Same goes for Mystique....I mean, Chameleon.

As I conclude this mess of a rant, I am not doubting that there will be an SM4. It wouldn't surprise me. But I don't see a whole lot of places for them to go. Just my opinion.

You are right on as to how the villains are but a supporting player in the SM movie stories(and as such, the villains "skills" generally relate to the moral that is being conveyed). However, there is more that can be told based upon the premise in which Raimi began the story. It's (currently) about Peter (& MJ). How his evolution into Spiderman affects him and various facets of his life is where the continuity lies. So the question becomes, is there anything more that can be done with the "story about a girl"? Perhaps(& probably) not. But there is much more that can be told about the story of Peter Parker, and how Spiderman plays a role.

I'm not posting this to say I have any specific ideas, only to say that in anyone's life there are continuous new challenges and choices to be made... all of which can change our perceptions and the overall outcome of our lives.

Hopefully, Sony has the wisdom to put the story first... thus maintaining the integrity of the franchise(unlike Batman & Superman). If the story is there, make the movie. If not, sit on it for a few years and revisit when the time is right(like Batman & Superman).

 

[FaT_tONle]

Well, I appreciate the compliment (), but you kind of missed the point.

It's not about cliffhangers and "setting up Villain #3" or any of that. It's about the film. What is the film about?

Example: Batman Begins very smartly used the Scarecrow as a villain. Why? Because he operates on fear, one of the very themes of the film.

It's not about telling good "hero vs. villain" stories. The villains are pawns in the overall game of chess (and chess = the film).

I'm not just talking about villains... just supporting characters... they added a new one with Gwen.... surely there will be more to develope with her character after this movie... Brock too... he will be a villain eventually but for the most part... he is a strong supporting character... you can introduce new guys and show how their relationship with SPiderman affects their lives as well. I'm not sure if they have a whole lot of these characters left to use... but I'm sure there are a lot out there...

 

[Cmill216]

I'm not just talking about villains... just supporting characters... they added a new one with Gwen.... surely there will be more to develope with her character after this movie... Brock too... he will be a villain eventually but for the most part... he is a strong supporting character... you can introduce new guys and show how their relationship with SPiderman affects their lives as well. I'm not sure if they have a whole lot of these characters left to use... but I'm sure there are a lot out there...

Yes, but again, THE BIG PICTURE!

What is the story about? What is the theme? Films/stories are about themes. If everything we know is true (mostly I'm referring to the Q & A) and Venom dies, Sandman (likely) dies, the Goblin saga ends, and the girl's live, where do you go from there? If MJ lives, they'll have completely missed the overall purpose of the "Death of Gwen" arc from ASM. So, now what?

 

[Robin91939]

Yeah I like it too. I can see myself really enjoying something like that.

I really like your idea for the final fight Robin

Thanks a lot. Ever since Harry was "announced" as a villain, I have been partial to seeing Spider-man getting his ass kicked by the main bad guy, then having Harry save Spider-man, sacrafising himself to do so. Then, seeing Harry's last act of heroism, inspires and enrages Spider-man to get up, and finish the job.

Just all seems pretty epic, and the treatment that, I feel, Harry and Peter deserve.

-R

 

[FaT_tONle]

Yes, but again, THE BIG PICTURE!

What is the story about? What is the theme? Films/stories are about themes. If everything we know is true (mostly I'm referring to the Q & A) and Venom dies, Sandman (likely) dies, the Goblin saga ends, and the girl's live, where do you go from there? If MJ lives, they'll have completely missed the overall purpose of the "Death of Gwen" arc from ASM. So, now what?

All you have to do is take a 4/5 year break... recast and start fresh... this isn't a TV show... the comics provide the stories... start with new themes...

 

[Cmill216]

All you have to do is take a 4/5 year break... recast and start fresh... this isn't a TV show... the comics provide the stories... start with new themes...

Yes, but what themes?? Any examples? Please?

And you are right, this isn't a TV show, which can essentially just be a television, serialized version of the comics. That's why it is so tough.

 

[CrypticOne]

Given what we have seen, heard, and read, could this be perhaps what we see in the final battle (royal)?

Green Goblin and Sandman team up. Both were foiled in the beginning and throughout the movie by Spider-man, so the Goblin decides he needs Flint's muscle and Flint decides he needs Harry's recourses, and knowledge of Spider-man. They abduct Gwen Stacey, because Harry knows that Peter cares for her, but takes her, because he doesn't want to harm Mary Jane (he still has feelings for her) and takes her to the Construction Site.

When Spider-man comes, they are there, waiting. Goblin has Gwen, and is taunting Spider-man with her. Sandman begins to collect sand from the site, and....grows. He and Spider-man square off. As the Sandman concentrates all of his efforts on the webhead, all Peter can think of is saving Gwen. There is a great scene of Spider-man dodging his way through the construction site, avoiding sand maces and mallets weilded by the giant Sandman, to try and save Gwen before Goblin drops her.

Peter gets there...but is too late. He pulls the falling Gwen up onto the top of the crane with his webline, and her limp body lies in front of him. Peter, now in a complete rage lashes out at Goblin. He and Spider-man have a quck ariel battle, until Sandman re-enters the action. It is two on one and Spider-man needs a miracle.

It comes in the form of Venom. The monster lands with a thud on the back of Marko, taking him to the ground, and sinks his teeth into Sandman's neck. Sandman, poisoned, begins to loose his shape and dies. Harry sees all that is happening around him and realizes that this is NOT who he is. He charges down at Venom and Venom smashes him to the ground. Then, with Harry out of the way, we get the much anticipated...Spider-man vs. Venom fight.

Ofcourse at this point, the weary Spider-man is getting it handed to him on a platter. Venom picks up a piece of debris, and is about to plunge it into the chest of the wallcrawler. At that moment, the Goblin comes flying towards him, with his mask off, and leaps towards the monster...saving Spider-man.
Venom, after Harry knocks him back, uses the debris to impale Harry.

Before he dies, Harry tells Peter he is sorry, and that it wasn't Spider-man who was responsible for his father's death, it was Norman's alone. Then he tells him "Don't tell MJ" and dies. Fueled by even more fury, Spider-man goes after Venom.


-That's generally the way I think that things will shake up, in a workable fashion....what do you think...post your own.

-R

This would be cool. Good theory.

 

[The Shape]

Continuing my "Future Films Rant" ():

People love to talk about future Spidey films, ONLY in terms of the villains (which proves most fanboys have no business giving their two cents about making films). In reality, it's all about the hero, and what the film's theme does to and for the hero.

Look at it like this (and I'll also use a non-Spidey example):

Spider-Man 1 - The origin
Spider-Man 2 - The "Spider-Man No More" storyline
Spider-Man 3 - The dark side of power/the symbiote

Now look at X-Men:

X-Men - The origin
X2 - The mutant registration act
X3 - The cure

Now, I'm not saying that this is all these franchises could have done. But you have to look at the big picture. You can't just say, "Well, they can have the Lizard in this film, and then Venom and Carnage, or Mysterio, and blah blah blah".

They've missed one of Spidey's defining arcs (The death of Gwen Stacy), but have already taken care of three others (The Goblins, the origin, and the "giving up of powers for personal wants").

I'd like to hear what LOGICAL places they can go from here. I'm not saying there aren't stories (there probably are), but are there stories available for them to truly continue to build upon the film legacy, or would it just become overkill? It's not about the villains. The villains just play their parts in the big thematic picture.

Case in point:

Why is Sandman here? Simple. Spider-Man physically defeated the Goblin and Doc Ock (he beat Norman down to the point where Norman had to essentially beg to get Spidey to stop, and Spidey fried Doc Ock and before he took off the mask could have finished Ock off). But in this film, what if Spidey faces a foe he can't physically defeat? Cue Sandman.

What does the Lizard bring to the table that we didn't see with Ock or Norman? That father figure thing? Done.

Mysterio? Please. Electro? His powers are too generic in the film world. Same goes for Mystique....I mean, Chameleon.

As I conclude this mess of a rant, I am not doubting that there will be an SM4. It wouldn't surprise me. But I don't see a whole lot of places for them to go. Just my opinion.

i love you, cmill. seriously.

we think exactly the same. everyone always like...WHAT VILLIAN WILL BE NEXT? HOW MANY VILLIANS? HOW WILL THE VILLIAN DIE?...but it's all about spidey. as you said once before, the films are called "Spider-man"...not "Venom"...or "The Lizard".

spider-man's story is what holds these films together. not the villains'. and that's what i really care about.

 

[The Shape]

All you have to do is take a 4/5 year break... recast and start fresh... this isn't a TV show... the comics provide the stories... start with new themes...

oh...that's it? recast one of the most successful film franchises in the history of film and start over after 4 years with new stories?

yeah...not so easy.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Yes, but what themes?? Any examples? Please?

And you are right, this isn't a TV show, which can essentially just be a television, serialized version of the comics. That's why it is so tough.

I don't think the "Ones I love will be the ones who pay" has played out completely... Harry dying is one thing but he can still lose Gwen/MJ/Aunt May in the future... Conners is a mentor... a friend... so was Norman but Spidey failed to save his life... maybe he could get it right in SM4... who knows... maybe Brock actually survives and you could have a rivalry well beyond SM3... I am not saying it will last up to six movies... but if you provide new takes to the characters... new point of views... why the hell wouldn't it work?

 

[Cmill216]

I don't think the "Ones I love will be the ones who pay" has played out completely... Harry dying is one thing but he can still lose Gwen/MJ/Aunt May in the future...

And that theme is a UNIVERSAL one; for every SM film. If no one dies, other than Harry, then in all actuality, they only used it once (in SM1).

Conners is a mentor... a friend... so was Norman but Spidey failed to save his life... maybe he could get it right in SM4... who knows

It's been done already. Case closed. Norman in SM1 and Curt Octavius () in SM2. Connors will likely just be a plot device at this point. If not, it will just be redudant.

... maybe Brock actually survives and you could have a rivalry well beyond SM3...

Doubt it. Not if he's fired from the Bugle and gets the symbiote in this film. If they wanted to do the Brock/Peter thing, they would have STARTED it in this film and continued it into others. But they don't seem to be doing that. So that's dead.

I am not saying it will last up to six movies... but if you provide new takes to the characters... new point of views... why the hell wouldn't it work?

Get me a defining arc of Spidey that they can still adapt (that's LOGICAL) and then we'll have a discussion.