World X-Men and Homosexuality: The Connection

[littyx]

Yes, you obviously don't have a problem with homosexuals since you just compared them to necrpohliacs.


I can feel the love.

 

[Valechan]

I'm so going to copy this thread and read it at home. But first.
Being gay myself I've always completely identified with the X-Men because of it. When I knew the X-Men I did not truly know that I was gay (I was young and didn't even think about sex), but I always felt a strong connection to their struggle. It's possible the reason why I love the X-Men world so much.

I know you've been asking for some issues, so I can tell you first Uncanny 414, when Xavier asks Northstar to teach at his school. There's a lot of gay/mutant things there. Another great and overlooked issue is Mystique 13, where Raven encounters a soon-to-be transexual and helps her. It's a BEAUTIFUL story.

I'll read the previous pages more closely and answer accordingly.

 

[Elijya]

I didn't know you were gay, Sebita

 

[littyx]

I'm so going to copy this thread and read it at home. But first.
Being gay myself I've always completely identified with the X-Men because of it. When I knew the X-Men I did not truly know that I was gay (I was young and didn't even think about sex), but I always felt a strong connection to their struggle. It's possible the reason why I love the X-Men world so much.

I know you've been asking for some issues, so I can tell you first Uncanny 414, when Xavier asks Northstar to teach at his school. There's a lot of gay/mutant things there. Another great and overlooked issue is Mystique 13, where Raven encounters a soon-to-be transexual and helps her. It's a BEAUTIFUL story.

I'll read the previous pages more closely and answer accordingly.

Thanks Sebita, I look forward to your input.

 

[bosef982]

Interesting topic, let’s see if we can bring some reason into this and expose the typical double standards that homosexuals are forced to proscribe to everyday. Of all the comments here I’ve read I find Lady Shiva’s the most telling. She says she doesn’t want to see her character changed “that much.” Now, while I’m not a huge fan of changing characters for affirmative action reasons pertaining to sexuality, I think it’s dangerous to implore that being gay is that much a change. I suppose to most it may seem like a big deal. Homosexuals frequently find great identification in the fact that they are gay. And how couldn’t they? Daily they are reminded of how they are different. From not being able to express affection to their partners in a mall, to watching heterocentric media and/or education, or even stuck in a place where they cannot express their sexuality without fear of recrimination. No heterosexual I know can speak to the idea of walking into work the day after Valentine’s Day and making sure you either say “she” instead of “he” when associates as you what you did or refrain from saying anything at all and just appear single and lonely. Daily, heterosexuals are afforded many avenues of expression for their sexuality. Be it from being able to freely talk about their partners without a second though to total strangers, using whatever pronoun they wish, or to simply holding that person’s hand, touching them on the back at a store, or sitting at dinner on a date and feeling that no one is staring at you. The opposite is true – gay equals stares.


I don’t care what people do in their bedrooms, people say. However, homosexuality is not just sex. It is not confined to the bedroom, just as heterosexual relationships are not. Homosexuality evolves in many actions, from dating, to talking, to friends, to who you’re talking to on the phone. Being that we live in a heterosexist society where heterosexuality is presumed normal and standard, of course a heterosexual would say it would be a big change. The entire context of homosexuality being a “big deal” is attributed to homosexuals who allegedly flaunt their sexualities. “Stop being all gay.” However, how can one not seem to hold close to them and identify themselves with something that has garnered them so much hate. Or is the identity itself is not a big deal, created so by the fear and hostility of a intolerant heterosexist society that has, on the surface, become “more tolerant” but in reality has simply become “more subtle.” Nowadays, homosexuals are mainly accepted if and only if they can subscribe to stereotypically straight ideas or lifestyles. Its like mutants accepted that look “normal”, but those more freakish are rejected. The gay debate then becomes something all the more superficial. And it is not because gay people are making it that way – it is not because we want more characters being gay – it is that when we get a gay character, the only way we get it is by sacrificing the individual autonomy of that character to a ridiculous stereotype that produces a sort of subtle comfort to wary heterosexuals. Prime examples are Queer Eye for a Straight Guy and Will and Grace. While humorous in their own right, their self-deprecating natures are really anti-gay in a way. It’s like the ol’ Jim Crow plays where men would slap black tar onto their faces to play black men. Would an African-American back then say, “Woah, we’re making great advances.” No, they’d be offended. Yet homosexuals are so desperate for acceptance, they’ll accept these Oliver Twist handouts as something approaching tolerance and acceptance…

…but it’s always on heterosexual terms. When homosexuals start talking about marriage, adoption, life insurance, visitation rights, estate rights, etc., the debate alters entirely. Suddenly, for straight people, it’s not about acceptance – it’s about homosexuals attempting to degrade “their” institutions that they have so aptly showed an ability to care for with a 50% + divorce rate, child abuse on rise, etc. All of this reinforces this sociological atmosphere conducive to the type of acts seen in the Matthew Shepard case. And yet, gay people make being gay a big deal. When you walk out of a Bennigan’s Restaurant b/c a bunch of football jocks are staring at you and your partner funny, come speak to homosexuals about “big deals.”


So don’t tell people, I”ve heard. Well, then don’t tell me you’re straight. But no, straight is right. And thus, the double standard is exposed for what it is: a hypocritical laziness. Laziness to confront the problems of intolerance and bigotry in a society that’s become all too good in hiding it, and hypocrisy in enjoying the solutions to the problems that other minorities should, but don’t, enjoy. In the end of the day, we find ourselves pawning for a gay character in an X-men comic book – we’ve been reduced to paneled freebies for 2.25 cents.


And there is one distinct trait that homosexuals share with mutants: they must always confront God in their struggles to be viewed as equals. While many minorities have been burdened by religion – homosexuals are the only ones who are actively to this day fighting a battle against the Bible itself. Not even women, who are disparaged in the Bible, have had to fight against the eternal damnation promised to homosexuals.

And then someone like Lady Shiva has the gall and ignorance to come on here and compare gay people to necrophilaics and whine about a character possibly becoming gay…

…as if she had the inkling of intelligence or crucible to understand why the want exists and why that comparisons wrong. It’s pathetic.

 

[Kritish]

And then someone like Lady Shiva has the gall and ignorance to come on here and compare gay people to necrophilaics and whine about a character possibly becoming gay…
…as if she had the inkling of intelligence or crucible to understand why the want exists and why that comparisons wrong. It’s pathetic.

I'm a guy you know ?

But seriously, it's like changing a characters gender. It's way to much of a change. Whats next, will 'The Spawn' be white ? Will superman be a dude that can be killed by just a bullet ?

 

[Elijya]

Interesting topic, let’s see if we can bring some reason into this and expose the typical double standards that homosexuals are forced to proscribe to everyday. Of all the comments here I’ve read I find Lady Shiva’s the most telling. She says she doesn’t want to see her character changed “that much.” Now, while I’m not a huge fan of changing characters for affirmative action reasons pertaining to sexuality, I think it’s dangerous to implore that being gay is that much a change. I suppose to most it may seem like a big deal. Homosexuals frequently find great identification in the fact that they are gay. And how couldn’t they? Daily they are reminded of how they are different. From not being able to express affection to their partners in a mall, to watching heterocentric media and/or education, or even stuck in a place where they cannot express their sexuality without fear of recrimination. No heterosexual I know can speak to the idea of walking into work the day after Valentine’s Day and making sure you either say “she” instead of “he” when associates as you what you did or refrain from saying anything at all and just appear single and lonely. Daily, heterosexuals are afforded many avenues of expression for their sexuality. Be it from being able to freely talk about their partners without a second though to total strangers, using whatever pronoun they wish, or to simply holding that person’s hand, touching them on the back at a store, or sitting at dinner on a date and feeling that no one is staring at you. The opposite is true – gay equals stares.
I don’t care what people do in their bedrooms, people say. However, homosexuality is not just sex. It is not confined to the bedroom, just as heterosexual relationships are not. Homosexuality evolves in many actions, from dating, to talking, to friends, to who you’re talking to on the phone. Being that we live in a heterosexist society where heterosexuality is presumed normal and standard, of course a heterosexual would say it would be a big change. The entire context of homosexuality being a “big deal” is attributed to homosexuals who allegedly flaunt their sexualities. “Stop being all gay.” However, how can one not seem to hold close to them and identify themselves with something that has garnered them so much hate. Or is the identity itself is not a big deal, created so by the fear and hostility of a intolerant heterosexist society that has, on the surface, become “more tolerant” but in reality has simply become “more subtle.” Nowadays, homosexuals are mainly accepted if and only if they can subscribe to stereotypically straight ideas or lifestyles. Its like mutants accepted that look “normal”, but those more freakish are rejected. The gay debate then becomes something all the more superficial. And it is not because gay people are making it that way – it is not because we want more characters being gay – it is that when we get a gay character, the only way we get it is by sacrificing the individual autonomy of that character to a ridiculous stereotype that produces a sort of subtle comfort to wary heterosexuals. Prime examples are Queer Eye for a Straight Guy and Will and Grace. While humorous in their own right, their self-deprecating natures are really anti-gay in a way. It’s like the ol’ Jim Crow plays where men would slap black tar onto their faces to play black men. Would an African-American back then say, “Woah, we’re making great advances.” No, they’d be offended. Yet homosexuals are so desperate for acceptance, they’ll accept these Oliver Twist handouts as something approaching tolerance and acceptance…
…but it’s always on heterosexual terms. When homosexuals start talking about marriage, adoption, life insurance, visitation rights, estate rights, etc., the debate alters entirely. Suddenly, for straight people, it’s not about acceptance – it’s about homosexuals attempting to degrade “their” institutions that they have so aptly showed an ability to care for with a 50% + divorce rate, child abuse on rise, etc. All of this reinforces this sociological atmosphere conducive to the type of acts seen in the Matthew Shepard case. And yet, gay people make being gay a big deal. When you walk out of a Bennigan’s Restaurant b/c a bunch of football jocks are staring at you and your partner funny, come speak to homosexuals about “big deals.”
So don’t tell people, I”ve heard. Well, then don’t tell me you’re straight. But no, straight is right. And thus, the double standard is exposed for what it is: a hypocritical laziness. Laziness to confront the problems of intolerance and bigotry in a society that’s become all too good in hiding it, and hypocrisy in enjoying the solutions to the problems that other minorities should, but don’t, enjoy. In the end of the day, we find ourselves pawning for a gay character in an X-men comic book – we’ve been reduced to paneled freebies for 2.25 cents.
And there is one distinct trait that homosexuals share with mutants: they must always confront God in their struggles to be viewed as equals. While many minorities have been burdened by religion – homosexuals are the only ones who are actively to this day fighting a battle against the Bible itself. Not even women, who are disparaged in the Bible, have had to fight against the eternal damnation promised to homosexuals.
And then someone like Lady Shiva has the gall and ignorance to come on here and compare gay people to necrophilaics and whine about a character possibly becoming gay…
…as if she had the inkling of intelligence or crucible to understand why the want exists and why that comparisons wrong. It’s pathetic.

yeah, hi.

I'm not reading that, although I would like to, because I'm sure you make a number of valid and insiteful points. But no, I'm not reading that until put some paragraph spacers inbetween. Would you mind? thanks

 

[bosef982]

I'm a guy you know ?

But seriously, it's like changing a characters gender. It's way to much of a change. Whats next, will 'The Spawn' be white ? Will superman be a dude that can be killed by just a bullet ?

Your analogy stands on too many illogical premises. And now you're emasculating homosexuals by saying that making a character homosexuals is like changing someone's gender or race or mortal status? Please.

How much does who someone sleep with impact comic books? Tell me? Sure, in some cases, it does. But overall, how many comic stories do we see rest soley on a heterosexual relationship? I'd say maybe 25 to 30%. Now, how many of those heterosexual relationships are soley capalbe of producing the intrinsic relationship drama outside of a homosexual relatinoship? In other words, how would changing such a relationship to a homosexual relationship alter the dramatic mechanics of the story?

The "difference" and "change" you see is heterosexist thinking, plain and simple. And, if anything, a changing of the character is big insofar as a fearful, ignorant heterosexist society draws a constrast as being big. My point, homosexuals have little to do with you dislike of having a character change. A lot of it has to do with narrowminded thinking.

If a writer wanted to alter Northstar and make him straight, I doubt you'd be on these boards screaming at the top of your lungs that's wrong. However, many homosexuals maintain that making Superman gay is a mistake, that changing these characteristics are unneccessary. I find it ironic that many homosexuals are willing to compromise and find common ground, while heterosexuals seem to just freak out and say, "no, you can't do that!" Get real! In real life, guess what, people come out, people accept who they are -- if Cyclops tomorrow was to realize he liked men, it is not totally implausible. If anything, his delay could be attirbuted to a societal atmosphere which makes it hard for one to come out.

The hypocrisy here is stunning to me. And the means to make an analogy are as insultful as they are illogical. Gender change equals sexuality change, please.

Look at Colossus in Ultimate X-Men, how much as he chagned since it's common knowledge that his character is gay. Not much.

Oh wait, you couldn't make Superman gay because gay people...what? Answer that. What stereotypical trait will you throw out that makes it impossible for Superman to be gay. Do you understand the variety of homosexuals that are out there -- or are you just lumping us all into a category where we fall short of performing such straight tasks that neccessiate superhero characters like Superman be straight?

I'd really like to know.

 

[newwaveboy87]

Oh wait, you couldn't make Superman gay because gay people...what?

have limp wrists!!
would never wear their underwear on the outside - he'd get a total FABULOUS makeover! leather chaps, assless perhaps? grow out the mustache - Superman would be a total bear. grrr!

 

[Valechan]

I didn't know you were gay, Sebita

Really? I Thought everyone knew... I've stated it more than once... anyway I'm actually a cross-dresser, so it's like stage two of being gay, kinda like when Goku becomes Super Saiyan 2 or something... hehehe

 

[newwaveboy87]

Really? I Thought anyone knew... I'm actually a cross-dresser, so it's like stage two of being gay, kinda like when Goku becomes Super Saiyan 2 or something... hehehe

oh my god...i can't breathe...laughing...too...much...*cries*

 

[Kritish]

Really? I Thought everyone knew... I've stated it more than once... anyway I'm actually a cross-dresser, so it's like stage two of being gay, kinda like when Goku becomes Super Saiyan 2 or something... hehehe

TO

MUCH

INFORMATION

 

[Kritish]

Your analogy stands on too many illogical premises. And now you're emasculating homosexuals by saying that making a character homosexuals is like changing someone's gender or race or mortal status? Please.

How much does who someone sleep with impact comic books? Tell me? Sure, in some cases, it does. But overall, how many comic stories do we see rest soley on a heterosexual relationship? I'd say maybe 25 to 30%. Now, how many of those heterosexual relationships are soley capalbe of producing the intrinsic relationship drama outside of a homosexual relatinoship? In other words, how would changing such a relationship to a homosexual relationship alter the dramatic mechanics of the story?

The "difference" and "change" you see is heterosexist thinking, plain and simple. And, if anything, a changing of the character is big insofar as a fearful, ignorant heterosexist society draws a constrast as being big. My point, homosexuals have little to do with you dislike of having a character change. A lot of it has to do with narrowminded thinking.

If a writer wanted to alter Northstar and make him straight, I doubt you'd be on these boards screaming at the top of your lungs that's wrong. However, many homosexuals maintain that making Superman gay is a mistake, that changing these characteristics are unneccessary. I find it ironic that many homosexuals are willing to compromise and find common ground, while heterosexuals seem to just freak out and say, "no, you can't do that!" Get real! In real life, guess what, people come out, people accept who they are -- if Cyclops tomorrow was to realize he liked men, it is not totally implausible. If anything, his delay could be attirbuted to a societal atmosphere which makes it hard for one to come out.

The hypocrisy here is stunning to me. And the means to make an analogy are as insultful as they are illogical. Gender change equals sexuality change, please.

Look at Colossus in Ultimate X-Men, how much as he chagned since it's common knowledge that his character is gay. Not much.

Oh wait, you couldn't make Superman gay because gay people...what? Answer that. What stereotypical trait will you throw out that makes it impossible for Superman to be gay. Do you understand the variety of homosexuals that are out there -- or are you just lumping us all into a category where we fall short of performing such straight tasks that neccessiate superhero characters like Superman be straight?

I'd really like to know.

It can be argued that Spawn and Blades race dosn't affect the comic that much.
But make them white and watch a fan boy beyotch fest.

 

[Darthkush]

ummm..Which two Young Avengers are gay? I have issue 1-6, and I think 8 and i don't remember that ever coming up.

 

[Darthkush]

double post

 

[Elijya]

ummm..Which two Young Avengers are gay? I have issue 1-6, and I think 8 and i don't remember that ever coming up.

read the letter columns

Hulking and Asgardian are a couple

 

[Valechan]

I gotta buy that book... anyway, isn't ASgardian now named Wiccan?

 

[littyx]

Interesting topic, let’s see if we can bring some reason into this and expose the typical double standards that homosexuals are forced to proscribe to everyday. Of all the comments here I’ve read I find Lady Shiva’s the most telling. She says she doesn’t want to see her character changed “that much.” Now, while I’m not a huge fan of changing characters for affirmative action reasons pertaining to sexuality, I think it’s dangerous to implore that being gay is that much a change. I suppose to most it may seem like a big deal. Homosexuals frequently find great identification in the fact that they are gay. And how couldn’t they? Daily they are reminded of how they are different. From not being able to express affection to their partners in a mall, to watching heterocentric media and/or education, or even stuck in a place where they cannot express their sexuality without fear of recrimination. No heterosexual I know can speak to the idea of walking into work the day after Valentine’s Day and making sure you either say “she” instead of “he” when associates as you what you did or refrain from saying anything at all and just appear single and lonely. Daily, heterosexuals are afforded many avenues of expression for their sexuality. Be it from being able to freely talk about their partners without a second though to total strangers, using whatever pronoun they wish, or to simply holding that person’s hand, touching them on the back at a store, or sitting at dinner on a date and feeling that no one is staring at you. The opposite is true – gay equals stares.


I don’t care what people do in their bedrooms, people say. However, homosexuality is not just sex. It is not confined to the bedroom, just as heterosexual relationships are not. Homosexuality evolves in many actions, from dating, to talking, to friends, to who you’re talking to on the phone. Being that we live in a heterosexist society where heterosexuality is presumed normal and standard, of course a heterosexual would say it would be a big change. The entire context of homosexuality being a “big deal” is attributed to homosexuals who allegedly flaunt their sexualities. “Stop being all gay.” However, how can one not seem to hold close to them and identify themselves with something that has garnered them so much hate. Or is the identity itself is not a big deal, created so by the fear and hostility of a intolerant heterosexist society that has, on the surface, become “more tolerant” but in reality has simply become “more subtle.” Nowadays, homosexuals are mainly accepted if and only if they can subscribe to stereotypically straight ideas or lifestyles. Its like mutants accepted that look “normal”, but those more freakish are rejected. The gay debate then becomes something all the more superficial. And it is not because gay people are making it that way – it is not because we want more characters being gay – it is that when we get a gay character, the only way we get it is by sacrificing the individual autonomy of that character to a ridiculous stereotype that produces a sort of subtle comfort to wary heterosexuals. Prime examples are Queer Eye for a Straight Guy and Will and Grace. While humorous in their own right, their self-deprecating natures are really anti-gay in a way. It’s like the ol’ Jim Crow plays where men would slap black tar onto their faces to play black men. Would an African-American back then say, “Woah, we’re making great advances.” No, they’d be offended. Yet homosexuals are so desperate for acceptance, they’ll accept these Oliver Twist handouts as something approaching tolerance and acceptance…

…but it’s always on heterosexual terms. When homosexuals start talking about marriage, adoption, life insurance, visitation rights, estate rights, etc., the debate alters entirely. Suddenly, for straight people, it’s not about acceptance – it’s about homosexuals attempting to degrade “their” institutions that they have so aptly showed an ability to care for with a 50% + divorce rate, child abuse on rise, etc. All of this reinforces this sociological atmosphere conducive to the type of acts seen in the Matthew Shepard case. And yet, gay people make being gay a big deal. When you walk out of a Bennigan’s Restaurant b/c a bunch of football jocks are staring at you and your partner funny, come speak to homosexuals about “big deals.”


So don’t tell people, I”ve heard. Well, then don’t tell me you’re straight. But no, straight is right. And thus, the double standard is exposed for what it is: a hypocritical laziness. Laziness to confront the problems of intolerance and bigotry in a society that’s become all too good in hiding it, and hypocrisy in enjoying the solutions to the problems that other minorities should, but don’t, enjoy. In the end of the day, we find ourselves pawning for a gay character in an X-men comic book – we’ve been reduced to paneled freebies for 2.25 cents.


And there is one distinct trait that homosexuals share with mutants: they must always confront God in their struggles to be viewed as equals. While many minorities have been burdened by religion – homosexuals are the only ones who are actively to this day fighting a battle against the Bible itself. Not even women, who are disparaged in the Bible, have had to fight against the eternal damnation promised to homosexuals.

And then someone like Lady Shiva has the gall and ignorance to come on here and compare gay people to necrophilaics and whine about a character possibly becoming gay…

…as if she had the inkling of intelligence or crucible to understand why the want exists and why that comparisons wrong. It’s pathetic.

Beautiful words Bosef. Really moving. I could relate to almost every word there. Most people just don't get it. They dont. If they knew what it felt like to live a day in our shoes, they'd stop and realize that there ignorant views take a toll on our day to day life. As comfortable as I am in my sexuality and the way I live my life. There are always those there to let me know I'm "different". And I'll never be "normal". And you know what, I say F *ck that.

But that only goes so far. When your family, friends, government, president, and co-workers think that your different and shouldnt be treated like any other person, it definitely takes a tole. I get so frustrated sometimes when I hear people who don't have an inkling of what it is to be homosexual talk about us. That its a choice, that we shouldn't have the same rights, that we cannot raise children. How do they have ANY sort of clue what it is like to be homosexual?

Yes, its a choice! Remember that day when you were 13 and your parents asked what sexual orientation you wanted? Hmm-mm, I've always liked a challenge, so I picked "homosexual". And its been grand ever since! I mean, people think I'm a freak, and I don't have equal rights....buts its a grand life!

Do you guys hear that?! We don't have equal rights. Its 2005, and there are people in this world, right now, that are legally told they are lesser beings. Especially you adults out there, whenever one of you has something negative to say about a gay person. Think about that 15 yr old boy that gets beat up in school everyday. Think about when kids call him "F@ggot!" in class and most teachers do not protest that. Think about that girl that has tried killing herself because she knows that the people she loves most, will hate her when she tells them who she really is. Think about the older woman that her partner of 25 yrs has passed away, and the govt. has taken every thing they owned together.

People don't realize the severity of the way they discriminate. Even in the most minute way. It still takes a toll. And when I come to a thread like this, and post a simple question about gay people and the X-Men, your discrimination seems pretty ridiculous.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

Edit...

The "difference" and "change" you see is heterosexist thinking, plain and simple. And, if anything, a changing of the character is big insofar as a fearful, ignorant heterosexist society draws a constrast as being big. My point, homosexuals have little to do with you dislike of having a character change. A lot of it has to do with narrowminded thinking.

If a writer wanted to alter Northstar and make him straight, I doubt you'd be on these boards screaming at the top of your lungs that's wrong. However, many homosexuals maintain that making Superman gay is a mistake, that changing these characteristics are unneccessary. I find it ironic that many homosexuals are willing to compromise and find common ground, while heterosexuals seem to just freak out and say, "no, you can't do that!" Get real! In real life, guess what, people come out, people accept who they are -- if Cyclops tomorrow was to realize he liked men, it is not totally implausible. If anything, his delay could be attirbuted to a societal atmosphere which makes it hard for one to come out.

The hypocrisy here is stunning to me. And the means to make an analogy are as insultful as they are illogical. Gender change equals sexuality change, please.

Your total point is correct! there is a TON of hypocrisy. But this analogy or these examples really dont work because the real or number one problem with changing a comic book character wouldnt rise because of hypocrisy. It is mostly sperned from BONEHEADEDNESS. NO COMIC CHARACTER CAN EVER CHANGE, PERIOD! This rigidness among comic fans is influenced by ethnicity, sexuality, etc, but these are not (IMO) the main reason for the insistance that these characters dont grow and change.

I mean really... change Rogue's underwear from purple to pink and SOMEONE will have a problem with this(not because of hypocrisy though). Change Batman's car from a custom job to a T-top and millions will cry (not because of hypocrisy). So it just completely absurd to change the actual sexuality of an established comic character, because as we all know, by the current homosexual stereotypes it will change tons of other aspects of the character's persona...

have limp wrists!!
would never wear their underwear on the outside - he'd get a total FABULOUS makeover! leather chaps, assless perhaps? grow out the mustache - Superman would be a total bear. grrr!

... and this would cause so many brain tumors, again not from hypocrisy, simply because it's CHANGE...and A LOT OF IT!

If someone were to change Northstar from "Gay" to "straight" there wouldnt be as much noise made about the "sexuality change" (and your right, this is truly sad) as there would be the fact that the writer (who-ever the blessed soul is) would have the audacity to make a change at all... "You bast**d, You killed kenny!"

So as you can see the "changing a comic book character to illustrate hipocracy" arguement is kind of nullified by fanboys insistance that their characters never change at all, for any reason. Again, this is just me being anal, because I totally agree that there is an astounding amount of hypocrisy.

 

[Elijya]

TO

MUCH

INFORMATION

why don't you go vandalize some of his property if it upsets you so much? cause that's what you do when someone is different from you, right?

 

[Elijya]

Though she's not an x-man, There is one character I would really like to bring up - Moon Dragon. It might have been speculated for decades that she was gay, but it was only revealed in Peter David's Captain Marvel series in the late 90's, and it was incredibly well done. The story wasn't simply Moon Dragon coming out because she'd known all along, it was her discovering her sexuality herself. It worked completely for her character, and it gave her far more depth than perhaps ANYTHING that's ever been done with her before

 

[Lazmarquez]

Beautiful words Bosef. Really moving. I could relate to almost every word there. Most people just don't get it. They dont. If they knew what it felt like to live a day in our shoes, they'd stop and realize that there ignorant views take a toll on our day to day life. As comfortable as I am in my sexuality and the way I live my life. There are always those there to let me know I'm "different". And I'll never be "normal". And you know what, I say F *ck that.

But that only goes so far. When your family, friends, government, president, and co-workers think that your different and shouldnt be treated like any other person, it definitely takes a tole. I get so frustrated sometimes when I hear people who don't have an inkling of what it is to be homosexual talk about us. That its a choice, that we shouldn't have the same rights, that we cannot raise children. How do they have ANY sort of clue what it is like to be homosexual?

Yes, its a choice! Remember that day when you were 13 and your parents asked what sexual orientation you wanted? Hmm-mm, I've always liked a challenge, so I picked "homosexual". And its been grand ever since! I mean, people think I'm a freak, and I don't have equal rights....buts its a grand life!

Do you guys hear that?! We don't have equal rights. Its 2005, and there are people in this world, right now, that are legally told they are lesser beings. Especially you adults out there, whenever one of you has something negative to say about a gay person. Think about that 15 yr old boy that gets beat up in school everyday. Think about when kids call him "F@ggot!" in class and most teachers do not protest that. Think about that girl that has tried killing herself because she knows that the people she loves most, will hate her when she tells them who she really is. Think about the older woman that her partner of 25 yrs has passed away, and the govt. has taken every thing they owned together.

People don't realize the severity of the way they discriminate. Even in the most minute way. It still takes a toll. And when I come to a thread like this, and post a simple question about gay people and the X-Men, your discrimination seems pretty ridiculous.

I have seen you around on these X-Boards for a while, and we never have necessarily exchanged words, and after this post, it makes me sad that we haven't. You are wonderful. Thank you for your excellent post and thread and remember you are an amazing human being. Thank you.

 

[littyx]

I have seen you around on these X-Boards for a while, and we never have necessarily exchanged words, and after this post, it makes me sad that we haven't. You are wonderful. Thank you for your excellent post and thread and remember you are an amazing human being. Thank you.

Thank you Laz. Very much. I just don't see how people, with all of the information out there today can still be so ignorant. Open your eyes, your mind. Learn something new. I know for a fact that, even if I were not gay. I would still be non-discriminatory. Whats the point? Why waste your time dealing with sterotypes and BS? Be an adult.

Again, thank you.

 

[newwaveboy87]

Thank you Laz. Very much. I just don't see how people, with all of the information out there today can still be so ignorant. Open your eyes, your mind. Learn something new. I know for a fact that, even if I were not gay. I would still be non-discriminatory. Whats the point? Why waste your time dealing with sterotypes and BS? Be an adult.

Again, thank you.

a lot of people are afraid of change, be it within themselves or within society as a whole. sad but true.

 

[tedw]

littyx - are you asking for examples from the comic books alone? What about thoughts based on comics & film?