Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - Part 11

[Erik Lensherr]

Is the Dark Phoenix Saga really the best story to adapt into a "grounded" X-Men movie? Call me skeptical.

You need to see Wolverine and the X-Men. The Dark Phoenix story in WatXM is relatable and grounded... and epic!

It can work.

[YT]cI-doOR9q0w[/YT]

 

[2kt09]

Consider this a simplification of the source material I recently read.
There's a gladiatorial fight against aliens at the end.
The rest of the saga is set on earth.

We know based on photos, EW synopsis, and rumored plot(s) that they will most likely adapt the beginning of Phoenix (before Dark).
Also, more than likely the actual villains of the movie will double up plot devices to condense the focus.

They certainly need to spend enough time on the drama to hit those high payoffs.

 

[Frankeh]

Consider this a simplification of the source material I recently read.
There's a gladiatorial fight against aliens at the end.
The rest of the saga is set on earth.

We know based on photos, EW synopsis, and rumored plot(s) that they will most likely adapt the beginning of Phoenix (before Dark).

We're talking about condensing two different storylines (Phoenix Saga and Dark Phoenix Saga) into one movie, and I'm not convinced it's that easy.

Yes, a lot of Dark Phoenix Saga is set on Earth, but Phoenix is established as an intergalactic threat because she eats a solar system, so a Galactic Council decides she has to be put down. And let's not forget that the "aliens" are introduced on a previous issue when the X-Men are caught up in a space dispute (they travel to an alien planet) over a doomsday crystal, where the Good Phoenix saves the day. It's very serialized and not a self-contained story like the two issues of DOFP -- you could almost make a trilogy out of it but I'd settle for two films. The issue is not the drama but the downplaying of the intergalactic elements of the story.

It's possible Kinberg took notes of that WatX version. But even that version had the Hellfire Club . Maybe Chastain is Kinberg's version of Eric the Red, except with an entirely different purpose (to manipulate Jean instead of killing Xavier). Genosha doubling for Cassidy Keep/Muir Island? Anymore comparisons seem to be pushing it.

 

[2kt09]

We're talking about condensing two different storylines (Phoenix Saga and Dark Phoenix Saga) into one movie, and I'm not convinced it's that easy.

Yes, a lot of Dark Phoenix Saga is set on Earth, but Phoenix is established as an intergalactic threat because she eats a solar system, so a Galactic Council decides she has to be put down. And let's not forget that the "aliens" are introduced on a previous issue when the X-Men are caught up in a space dispute (they travel to an alien planet) over a doomsday crystal, where the Good Phoenix saves the day. It's very serialized and not a self-contained story like the two issues of DOFP -- you could almost make a trilogy out of it but I'd settle for two films. The issue is not the drama but the downplaying of the intergalactic elements of the story.

It's possible Kinberg took notes of that WatX version. But even that version had the Hellfire Club . Maybe Chastain is Kinberg's version of Eric the Red, except with an entirely different purpose (to manipulate Jean instead of killing Xavier). Genosha doubling for Cassidy Keep/Muir Island? Anymore comparisons seem to be pushing it.

Because it's DPh, it should be more DPh heavy.
The TAS adaptation of Phoenix was too nauseating for me to want to seek the source.
Was talking about Chastain's character doubling up for the Hellfire Club & the intergalactic conflict.

 

[EnDz0n3]

If you really think that’s how it’s gonna play out then that’s some suped up female role. Let’s hope Chastain and especially Kinberg don’t drop the ball...

 

[Justice4#Rouge]

Perhaps Chastain’s character is/was [BLACKOUT]lilandra as a skrull[/BLACKOUT] and maybe that reshoots will include changing her to the [BLACKOUT]Skrull Queen[/BLACKOUT] otherwise I have know idea what there up to lol

 

[psyonic]

Perhaps Chastain’s character is/was [BLACKOUT]lilandra as a skrull[/BLACKOUT] and maybe that reshoots will include changing her to the [BLACKOUT]Skrull Queen[/BLACKOUT] otherwise I have know idea what there up to lol

or Miss Sinister bc let's be real, Skrull Queen?!?! should have been Lilandra from the get go.. or Cassandra Nova

 

[Nintendo]

Consider this a simplification of the source material I recently read.
There's a gladiatorial fight against aliens at the end.
The rest of the saga is set on earth.

We know based on photos, EW synopsis, and rumored plot(s) that they will most likely adapt the beginning of Phoenix (before Dark).
Also, more than likely the actual villains of the movie will double up plot devices to condense the focus.

They certainly need to spend enough time on the drama to hit those high payoffs.

This, especially your last point. Honestly I would take an X-Men movie that didn't even have any action until the last act if it meant more focus on the characters.

 

[SumT]

depends if those characters are Magneto, Mystique and Charles.
we dont need that anymore. If they want to innovate: focus on the actual X-Men for a chance

 

[2kt09]

If you really think that’s how it’s gonna play out then that’s some suped up female role. Let’s hope Chastain and especially Kinberg don’t drop the ball...

That's what my own source and other rumors spell out or allude to.
I've even seen that stated on other forums.
Could be fake, so w/e.

 

[Frankeh]

Because it's DPh, it should be more DPh heavy.

Right. But the point of "Dark" is that there was a "Good" Phoenix first... and the aliens from the climax of Dark Phoenix don't show up out of nowhere... but that is neither here nor there.

The TAS adaptation of Phoenix was too nauseating for me to want to seek the source.

Your loss!

 

[2kt09]

Right. But the point of "Dark" is that there was a "Good" Phoenix first... and the aliens from the climax of Dark Phoenix don't show up out of nowhere... but that is neither here nor there.

It would be even more wild if they tied it back to Apocalypse. Those same cult members or leaders were hiding in plain sight and they entrusted this Apocalypse process to invade and conquer.
More speculation? What if "all is revealed" = that little phoenix show, which = Jean already obtained part of this Phoenix essence and [BLACKOUT]going to space has her come in contact with that even more[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Avenging Angel]

Is the Dark Phoenix Saga really the best story to adapt into a "grounded" X-Men movie? Call me skeptical.

One of the most iconic XMen stories being adapted for the first time on screen, sure it does. And finally the focus is on important key characters of the OT. If they nail the essence of the story much like XMTAS did in their version, they can't lose.

 

[Nintendo]

depends if those characters are Magneto, Mystique and Charles.
we dont need that anymore. If they want to innovate: focus on the actual X-Men for a chance

Yeah this is my biggest fear for this movie. I actually like Lawrence btw, although I agree she was miscast. She's not bad though. Judging by online comments a lot of people don't like her in the role, and I just wonder how much of that is Lawrence and how much of it is them writing Mystique as a hero.

I look at the movies as if they are their own unique series, and so I look at the hero Mystique as a unique take just like many comic series have done on various characters. In the movie version of Days of Future Past, changing Mystique before she became a ruthless Malcolm X type heel was essential to the survival of the X-Men and the world. Thus she is an X-Man now in this alternate timeline (remember that's what it is). So I wish people would look at that particular plot point and see it like I do. I think it's cool she is a full fledged X-Man just like it would be cool if they had a legitimate reason to make Toad an X-Man, etc. Sorry for the rank. I agree this movie needs to focus strongly on Jean and Cyc.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Would she be better if Mystique was a villain? It would be the same disinterested performance.

 

[Nintendo]

Would she be better if Mystique was a villain? It would be the same disinterested performance.

I hear you. Something about her performance in Apocalypse was offputting to say the least, but I've also heard the cast was not happy filming that, and Brian Singer is a big reason why. Not making excuses for her, but she did say some really nice things about working with Kinberg on this film. I'm hopeful she puts some of that Catniss spunk into the role this time, especially since this is the end, and she probably dies (just a hunch).

 

[X-Maniac]

Would she be better if Mystique was a villain? It would be the same disinterested performance.

Even with a more invested performance, or a more invested actress, it would still be wrong to have Mystique leading the X-Men and being worshipped by Storm.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

I think people look at her performance in Apocalypse and use that to judge her performance throughout the entire trilogy. But she was really quite good in the first two. In First Class, she was the vulnerable, sympathetic character that the script wanted her to be. In DoFP she really pulled off the slick, badass new (for this film, anyway) side to the character that harkens back to Romijn’s version while still delivering the relatable, softer moments. In both films she looks very present and does a great job at bringing the character, as written in the scripts, to life. So, what happened in the third one? I’d say she’s definitely partly to blame, but so is Singer’s direction. If her apathy wasn’t what he wanted for the character, then it was his job to get her to perform differently. Considering the few passing statements about Singer’s irresponsibility and Lawrence’s boredom with the franchise, I’d say they both could’ve done better. But I could take her or leave her at this point. I just hope that this film was engaging enough for her, especially if the rumors surrounding her character are true and/or if this is the last entry in the FOX-Men.

My main problems with Mystique lie in the writing, not the actor portrayal... oh, and the makeup.

 

[Alison Blaire]

I hear you. Something about her performance in Apocalypse was offputting to say the least, but I've also heard the cast was not happy filming that, and Brian Singer is a big reason why. Not making excuses for her, but she did say some really nice things about working with Kinberg on this film. I'm hopeful she puts some of that Catniss spunk into the role this time, especially since this is the end, and she probably dies (just a hunch).

Yes,is so sad work with Singer.I can see.....

https://youtu.be/zjF07A5i8LU

 

[Ordet]

I like her also in Apocalypse.
I think it's very unfair to criticize her when in other franchising we have female actress that are not worthy a single inch of her (Olsen...)
My problem is with the make-up (hair over all): she doesn't work in blue Mystique.

As cold blood blue Mystique, Rebecca works better visually.

 

[Lip]

I think people look at her performance in Apocalypse and use that to judge her performance throughout the entire trilogy. But she was really quite good in the first two. In First Class, she was the vulnerable, sympathetic character that the script wanted her to be. In DoFP she really pulled off the slick, badass new (for this film, anyway) side to the character that harkens back to Romijn’s version while still delivering the relatable, softer moments. In both films she looks very present and does a great job at bringing the character, as written in the scripts, to life. So, what happened in the third one? I’d say she’s definitely partly to blame, but so is Singer’s direction. If her apathy wasn’t what he wanted for the character, then it was his job to get her to perform differently. Considering the few passing statements about Singer’s irresponsibility and Lawrence’s boredom with the franchise, I’d say they both could’ve done better. But I could take her or leave her at this point. I just hope that this film was engaging enough for her, especially if the rumors surrounding her character are true and/or if this is the last entry in the FOX-Men.

My main problems with Mystique lie in the writing, not the actor portrayal... oh, and the makeup.

The make-up looks better judging by that photo released. Much better. And she's using clothes now too. Only the wig that looks bad to me, but the style is better. I think the problem now is with the writing, her role and character development, and also the acting, given what we saw in XMA.

 

[Frankeh]

I think it's very unfair to criticize her when in other franchising we have female actress that are not worthy a single inch of her (Olsen...)

Olsen as SW is miles better than Lawrence. Even Karen Gillan serves a better blue-painted badass in both GOTG movies.

Anyway I don't find criticizing Lawrence unfair at all. She's an Oscar winner, so we should expect more from her, but she's the weak link in these movies. And I still don't agree with any DOFP praise. Her delivery of "what's the matter, baby? You don't think I look pretty like this?" alone is awful.

Rebecca Romijn forever.

 

[psylockolussus]

She's miscast as Mystique and the character wasn't written true to the Mystique of the source material. They needed someone to interact with Xavier that wasn't Erik and just happened to give Mystique's mutant powers. She's pretty much Mystique in name and powers only. Anyway, this franchise is like some bizarre X-Men alternate universe.

 

[Frankeh]

Of her contemporary actresses, I think Elizabeth Debicki would've been much better cast as Mystique.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Olsen as SW is miles better than Lawrence. Even Karen Gillan serves a better blue-painted badass in both GOTG movies.

Anyway I don't find criticizing Lawrence unfair at all. She's an Oscar winner, so we should expect more from her, but she's the weak link in these movies. And I still don't agree with any DOFP praise. Her delivery of "what's the matter, baby? You don't think I look pretty like this?" alone is awful.

Rebecca Romijn forever.

There was a lot of awful line deliveries from her in both FC and DOFP, the former more so than the latter, IMHO. I don’t buy this whole defense that people are only retroactively criticizing JLaw because of her bad turn as Raven in Apocalypse.