Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

[GuestStar2004]

I agree with the sentiment that Disney and Comcast should not own all the competition just to benefit their own corporation.

FOX could refuse Comcasts offer as its not the first time they have refused. but since they have stopped to consider it at all does kinda say they ain't fully committed to the $52 billion in stock offered by Disney.

We will just have to see.

 

[The Guard]

It's been a while since I've seen the movie. When exactly did this happen? All I remember is Beast asking Mystique to form the team again.

Been a while since I've seen it, too. It might be Mystique.

 

[X-Maniac]

Its also the title of a comic book property with over 400 characters that have been going since the 60s and are still being produced today in red versions or blue versions of separate teams



Anyone can be an X-Man though, thats the issue. most people pick a certain era they feel should be kept iconic to X-Men and whose allowed to be an X-Man but the comics alone have made alterations over the years.

Yes, the X-Men have been around since 1963, with one issue coming out every month and multiple comics series, so of course we are going to see some unusual developments like Magneto leading the team, Phoenix coming back multiple times, Jubilee becoming a vampire, Magneto having a clone called Joseph, Storm losing her powers, Storm nearly marrying Dracula, etc.

But that doesn't mean these are the status quo.

Anyone who knows X-Men properly knows who the classic members are. You clearly don't.

 

[The Guard]

Yes, the X-Men have been around since 1963, with one issue coming out every month and multiple comics series, so of course we are going to see some unusual developments like Magneto leading the team, Phoenix coming back multiple times, Jubilee becoming a vampire, Magneto having a clone called Joseph, Storm losing her powers, Storm nearly marrying Dracula, etc.

But that doesn't mean these are the status quo.

Anyone who knows X-Men properly knows who the classic members are. You clearly don't.

There’s a “classic team” (or three), but there is no status quo for the X-Men. That’s sort of the point of their family/team dynamic across the mythology. Their lives are always changing.

 

[SumT]

Yes, the X-Men have been around since 1963, with one issue coming out every month and multiple comics series, so of course we are going to see some unusual developments like Magneto leading the team, Phoenix coming back multiple times, Jubilee becoming a vampire, Magneto having a clone called Joseph, Storm losing her powers, Storm nearly marrying Dracula, etc.

But that doesn't mean these are the status quo.

Anyone who knows X-Men properly knows who the classic members are. You clearly don't.

I guess thats the typical excuse Jlaw fans use when trying to deffend Kinberg's approach to this property. "anything goes" "anyone can be a X-Man"
how little respect to the comics history from certain fans (or movie fans)

 

[GuestStar2004]

But that doesn't mean these are the status quo.

Anyone who knows X-Men properly knows who the classic members are. You clearly don't.

Oh I do, but an argument could certainly be made for creative freedom with a series of comics that have gone a dozen different directions under the title "X-Men"

I guess thats the typical excuse Jlaw fans use when trying to deffend Kinberg's approach to this property.

You have to be a Jlaw fan for that? That's kinda weird logic right there

 

[Jh7058622]

Obviously I clearly said Disney didn't have misses, are you gonna continue act snarky to every member you have an disagreement with. Anyway welcome to the ignore list. now have fun replying to my posts without a response from me.

Said Psylockolussus with no irony...

Hypocrisy at it's lowest and bye.

 

[psylockolussus]

A

Speaking of spin offs, Fox is only NOW doing spinoffs like the X-Force, The New Mutants, Deadpool et al. And we should be thankful to Fox and give them the benefit of the doubt?

Shouldn't they be doing splinter teams after they developed X staples like Rogue, Cyclops, Iceman, Kitty, Psylocke, Beast, Angel, Storm, Colossus, Gambit and Nightcrawler in the team movies? like to me those are the real X-Men and should have been prioritized first before we get to the other mutant teams. Like we still see Colossus, Beast, Cyclops, Nightcrawler and Storm in some of the films but they aren't lead characters or one of the main characters of the film. While Fox probably don't see the need to use other characters like Angel, Iceman and Rogue because they already appeared before in a number of films but when you compare their version to the source material, they aren't even close to the character's true potential.

 

[X-Maniac]

Oh I do, but an argument could certainly be made for creative freedom with a series of comics that have gone a dozen different directions under the title "X-Men"

I think once the core/mainline team series is done right, then it's time to start doing spin-offs with splinter teams, new young members, solo adventures, origin stories etc.

To start all those spin-offs (which are so far very badly connected, so not a very good 'expanded universe') without getting the 'main event' right is bad thinking and frustrating for fans.

 

[psylockolussus]

New Mutants should appear as X-Men Jr. While X-Force is looking like Deadpool's joke turned into a mutant group? Even these splinter teams cannot get the premise of their source material.

And yes, the core team should have been done right first. And even if we are in the seventh X-Men team film, it doesn't feel like that way as I felt like the X-Men regressed with the prequels Xpecially the focus going to Raven and Magneto who aren't even real X-Men IMO. Like they are X-Men characters but not The X-Men. And it goes back to the root of the problem which is the mishandling of characters like Storm, Rogue, PhoeniX, Cyclops, Angel, Psylocke, Gambit, Iceman, Kitty, Emma, Beast, Nightcrawler, Jubilee, etc.

Like if I time travel to 2004 and I post in this board and inform everyone that after 11 films, the X-Men movies only focused on Logan, Xavier, Erik, Raven and Wade - no one would believe me including the 2004 psylockolussus for just how ridiculous it sounds.

 

[DACrowe]

I guess thats the typical excuse Jlaw fans use when trying to deffend Kinberg's approach to this property. "anything goes" "anyone can be a X-Man"
how little respect to the comics history from certain fans (or movie fans)

This is very much "They're not real X-Men fans." or "pure enough."

It is online gobbledygook.

 

[SumT]

Are you happy with the treatment to Angel, Psylocke, Jubilee, Storm, Cyclops and Rogue in the franchise?

these are half the main X-Men. so.... tell me how are we all, or most of us, supposed to be happy with that type of treatment. People that know the x-men from decades ago, from the comics and tv shows, know these characters very well and their greatness. Their movie version is miles away and there is no excuse possible to deffend what Kinberg and Singer have done to them. No excuses allowed.

Its a 18 years old franchise, not just 1 trilogy done in 6 years. Its 18 y.e.a.r.s

 

[DACrowe]

Thank you for stating the obvious.

That wasn't my point, you're deflecting. My point is you guys are judging who is a "real" X-Men fan and who isn't, because they disagree with you. It is purity test crap.

In any case, we're about to get the "main" X-Men (or many of them) taking the centerstage in Dark Phoenix. I am aware they were not the leads in the best mainline X-films (FC and DOFP), but that is a consequence of TLS.

But for the record, since you're asking, I don't judge these movies based on how faithful they are to the comics, and I understand that you do. That is a fundamental difference of perception of them. However, folks don't get to pull the "you're not an X-Men fan" card and not get called out on it.

As for 18 years, you're finally getting the main team taking the spotlight in Dark Phoenix. If they reboot, you may have to wait many years again for that to happen if Disney goes in a "Homecoming" direction and elects to focus on less well-known characters.

 

[psylockolussus]

PhoeniX (Jean Grey) should have been a focus on one of these films a long time ago. No need to be grateful that after years of slacking, we might finally get Jean in a main role, but what about the rest again? And no, TLS is not the consequence why we got prequels, Wolverine flicks....that's because Fox wanted to stay away from original cast films to make less Xpensive films which meant NO Cyclops, Storm, PhoeniX, Rogue, Kitty, Colossus, Jubilee, Nightcrawler, Angel and Iceman in major roles. How many times people have to point that out for you? Basically here's the main characters in 11 films

2000-2006- Logan, Xavier, Erik
2009-2018- Logan, Xavier, Erik, Raven, Wade

That doesn't represent the X-Men well as an ensemble.

 

[BMM]

Because of diminishing returns. Because The Last Stand was garbage.

 

[psylockolussus]

They were already planning spin offs before X3 was released. Its like you weren't here during those times. So what if X3 sucked, it shouldn't be an Xcuse to waste characters in favor of Logan, Raven, Xavier and Erik whom by the way all appeared in X3!

 

[psylockolussus]

As for 18 years, you're finally getting the main team taking the spotlight in Dark Phoenix. If they reboot, you may have to wait many years again for that to happen if Disney goes in a "Homecoming" direction and elects to focus on less well-known characters.

Spoiler

According to the leaks, which have been confirmed by many sources, Storm and Nightcrawler don't do much. So no. If Beast and Cyclops get more role, its a supporting role at best and I doubt its more substantial than X1 Cyclops or X3 Beast.

And we have to wait years (again) just to see the X-Men right *yawn* when clearly FoX could have been given us that a long time ago if they understood that the X-Men is an ensemble. I don't want to wait til I'm 40 just to see Gambit, Angel and Psylocke as the X-Men.

 

[BMM]

They were already planning spin offs before X3 was released. Its like you weren't here during those times.

Fox was also planning to release an X-Men 3 directed by Bryan Singer that was reportedly going to be shot alongside X-Men 4. But, sure, everything is going according to plan, as though that’s what this franchise is known for. LOL.

 

[psylockolussus]

Are you happy with the treatment to Angel, Psylocke, Jubilee, Storm, Cyclops and Rogue in the franchise?

A big freaking

No!

 

[fobi]

Spoiler

According to the leaks, which have been confirmed by many sources, Storm and Nightcrawler don't do much. So no. If Beast and Cyclops get more role, its a supporting role at best and I doubt its more substantial than X1 Cyclops or X3 Beast.

I must've missed that.

 

[Jh7058622]

It's most likely false fobi take it with a grain of salt. Some like to be drama queens about everything to do with this movie.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well excluding Jean those reports said that Cyclops, Xavier and Beast had the biggest roles in the film. although what that generally means for the other characters is more down to the context of Cyclops,Xavier and Beast having the bigger roles.

They also said they felt Magneto was abit wasted, but that really comes down to how you feel about the Magneto character i guess. if you love the character its possible to be disappointed he wasn't in it more and if you ain't that fussed maybe he just wasn't in it all that much... which doesn't really help figure that out.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well excluding Jean those reports said that Cyclops, Xavier and Beast had the biggest roles in the film. although what that generally means for the other characters is more down to the context of Cyclops,Xavier and Beast having the bigger roles.

They also said they felt Magneto was abit wasted, but that really comes down to how you feel about the Magneto character i guess. if you love the character its possible to be disappointed he wasn't in it more and if you ain't that fussed maybe he just wasn't in it all that much... which doesn't really help figure that out.

And let's not forget Mystique's massive role.

Spoiler

When she dies, she is said to be the driving force for what everyone does in the rest of the film. Jean's guilt (and Scott deciding to stand by her), Xavier's grief, Beast's grief and anger (which sends him to Magneto), Magneto's anger and desire for revenge. Everything that everyone does is rooted in their reaction to Mystique dying. It's likely also the reason Scott is able to step up and move towards becoming leader.

So even when J-Law isn't on screen, her character is driving the story.

Magneto and Mystique didn't need to be in this at all. Mystique could have bowed out at the end of DoFP or at the end of X:A.

As for Storm and Nightcrawler, it's been said that Kinberg isn't a fan of either of them, so I well believe they only get limited roles. Nightcrawler is at least involved in the space rescue mission at the start. Storm is said to have no 'shining moment' in the story.

No wonder Alexandra Shipp was talking to the Hollywood Reporter about her character getting some some of solo spinoff, it's probably the only chance that Storm will get explored. And even so, a spinoff seems highly unlikely. Shipp couldn't headline her own film, she was only ever cast as a supporting/background role.

 

[GuestStar2004]

And let's not forget Mystique's massive role.

Spoiler

When she dies, she is said to be the driving force for what everyone does in the rest of the film. Jean's guilt (and Scott deciding to stand by her), Xavier's grief, Beast's grief and anger (which sends him to Magneto), Magneto's anger and desire for revenge. Everything that everyone does is rooted in their reaction to Mystique dying. It's likely also the reason Scott is able to step up and move towards becoming leader.

So even when J-Law isn't on screen, her character is driving the story.

Spoiler

The fate of her character will drive some of the story yeah since its jean who presumably kills her so there will be alot of twisted views on the impact that has on everyone

You could see that as still glorifying Mystique but the idea is jean just killed her team mate

And also lets be honest if it was someone else that Jean killed you would probably then he saying it should have been mystique but because they love Jlaw so much they wouldn't do such a thing

Magneto and Mystique didn't need to be in this at all. Mystique could have bowed out at the end of DoFP or at the end of X:A.

They didn't, but they also didn't not need too.

As for Storm and Nightcrawler, it's been said that Kinberg isn't a fan of either of them, so I well believe they only get limited roles. Nightcrawler is at least involved in the space rescue mission at the start. Storm is said to have no 'shining moment' in the story.

I never heard anyone say Kinberg was a fan of Cyclops either but he certainly seems to have a decent enough role if what was said is true.

He is also a bigger fan of magneto then Xavier but he actually has done far more with Xavier in this series then Magneto if you look at growth and screen time

No wonder Alexandra Shipp was talking to the Hollywood Reporter about her character getting some some of solo spinoff

Well she was not actually asked about her role in Dark Phoenix in that interview.

And before you start saying that they were pressured to not ask her because her role is just that small lets remember that couldn't stop shipp from bigging up her role anyway.

 

[SumT]

In any case, we're about to get the "main" X-Men (or many of them) taking the centerstage in Dark Phoenix. I am aware they were not the leads in the best mainline X-films (FC and DOFP), but that is a consequence of TLS.

As for 18 years, you're finally getting the main team taking the spotlight in Dark Phoenix. If they reboot, you may have to wait many years again for that to happen if Disney goes in a "Homecoming" direction and elects to focus on less well-known characters.

what main team are you talking about?

XMDP doesnt even include Wolverine, Rogue, Psylocke, Angel, Colossus and Jubilee.

what main X-Men do you mean? Mystique and Quicksilver?
2 mutants that never were core x-men neither main players in the 50 years old source material.

Do we have to celebrate how Kinberg and co. re-introduced Angel, Psylocke and Jubilee in the previous movie, but none of them are a X-Men yet??

this is disgusting, from any angle possible. as a x-men comic fan, as a tv shows fan, or franchise point of view. You dont introduce 3 fan favourite heroes in one movie and drop the 3 of them in the sequel after. Thats a big "f*** you" to the fans and supporters of your franchise.

Its like instead of a franchise growing, Kinberg just preffered to un-grown. Less characters, but more Magneto and Mystique again. There's absolutely nothing smart about this decision. There was a real fatigue with those two, and the fanbase and general fans were excited with the new X-Men added in Apocalypse (Angel, Psylocke, Jubilee...).... yet Kinberg dropped the three of them from the sequel. This is offensive in a sense.

its like Kinberg and Fox thought: "oh, so you love these X-Men we used in the previous one? f*** them, we dont want to use them again".


a studio that treats their audience/fanbase this way doesnt deserve success, imho.