Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

[Davidstorm]

Spoiler

Cannot wait for the first trailer

I think in July?

I think we are going to have a teaser trailer in July, probably they will want to show something during comiccon

 

[1627523]

Star Wars fans must be counting their lucky stars this director is busy. Jealous!

Star Wars fans have more things to worry about than Simon LOL. I've never seen a fanbase turn on franchise so quickly. Hope they improve with episode 9.

 

[DACrowe]

Dark PhoeniX would end this franchise in a bad note, the way Spider-Man 3 and The Amazing Spider-Man 2 ended. I'm just glad that the original cast won't be part of this upcoming mess. I know Disney has a big role in this "abrupt" ending for buying Fox but Fox also knew better to hire someone else other than Kinberg. There's a reason why Kinberg has yet to direct a Star Wars film despite being connected to the Star Wars franchise. And at some point wrong decision making will lead to bad consequences. Hopefully, Disney finally getting the rights would bring new hope on who wants the X-Men to thrive in the movies, not just at the box office but also in quality film making that respects the source material.

There's no enjoyment for me seeing Logan and these Deadpool movies despite being good as films, not really enriching the X-Men mythos especially in this franchise that they could be treated as stand alone films and doesn't improve the previously released films and make us eXcited about the other films in the franchise. It also adds more insult to the injury that the X-Men aren't as popular as they were before because the wrong direction Fox is taking this franchise to.

I'll just slightly add I do think Logan and the Deadpool movies add something to this universe. Logan reminded me how good the first two Singer films are by bringing it back to a human level about Jackman and Stewart. It gave a poetic resonance to those films, as well as The Wolverine for that matter. Meanwhile the Deadpool movies I think actually add to the idea that after DOFP the X-Men became more colorful and whacky superheroes in the new timeline. Apocalypse half-assed did that by introducing the costumes and Danger Room at the very end, although Dark Phoenix continues that to hopefully better result. You see the fruits of that labor in NTW and Colossus' X-Men. This also, in its own way, ties into Logan having the X-Men being international celebrities that people have made comic book mythos and action figures out of.

Of course, you are right, it is a fleeting element because Deadpool and Logan are very standalone and each is their own thing. But that is why I like them.

 

[Drexelhand]

I'll just slightly add I do think Logan and the Deadpool movies add something to this universe. Logan reminded me how good the first two Singer films are by bringing it back to a human level about Jackman and Stewart. It gave a poetic resonance to those films, as well as The Wolverine for that matter. Meanwhile the Deadpool movies I think actually add to the idea that after DOFP the X-Men became more colorful and whacky superheroes in the new timeline. Apocalypse half-assed did that by introducing the costumes and Danger Room at the very end, although Dark Phoenix continues that to hopefully better result. You see the fruits of that labor in NTW and Colossus' X-Men. This also, in its own way, ties into Logan having the X-Men being international celebrities that people have made comic book mythos and action figures out of.

Of course, you are right, it is a fleeting element because Deadpool and Logan are very standalone and each is their own thing. But that is why I like them.

The X-Men being celebrities isn't something that the comics haven't done either. X-Factor became celebrities and recognized and celebrated mutant superheroes after they stopped the Four Horsemen and Apocalypse from destroying New York City.

 

[psylockolussus]

I'll just slightly add I do think Logan and the Deadpool movies add something to this universe.

They added more inconsistences, not eXactly enrich the established continuity, that's why they can easily be seen as a stand alone. It does not even make sense to call this a movie series.

 

[Weather Witch]

Especially when they already went back to the present/future times a couple of times? Why continue to make these X-Men in the past films? Lmao imagine if Wonder Woman/Captain America are having separate films set in the 50s/60s/70s/80s after A/Jl. 1 film set in the past is enough.

Because this has been the main cast for X-Men movies since 2011 and recasting them again would be suicide. Futhermore, when Dark Phoenix is here all of these actors will have had more screentime than their OT counterparts. Nicholas Hoult for example beats the screentime of Ian McKellen and Halle Berry. Heck, even Rose Byrne beats Shawn Ashmore and James Marsden at this point. Btw, Wonder Woman 2 is rumored to take place in the Cold War era and Captain Marvel is an upcoming prequel in the MCU as well.

 

[Legion]

Because this has been the main cast for X-Men movies since 2011 and recasting them again would be suicide. Futhermore, when Dark Phoenix is here all of these actors will have had more screentime than their OT counterparts. Nicholas Hoult for example beats the screentime of Ian McKellen and Halle Berry. Heck, even Rose Byrne beats Shawn Ashmore and James Marsden at this point. Btw, Wonder Woman 2 is rumored to take place in the Cold War era and Captain Marvel is an upcoming prequel in the MCU as well.

Why did one cast need to replace the other? Casting James McAvoy didn't stop them from using Patrick Stewart in DoFP and Logan. They could have developed films in the past and present concurrently. Audiences can handle films with alternating time periods. Logan and Deadpool are proof of this. They were supposedly trying to expand the X universe...

It's not exactly recasting either if they are portraying the same character in a different period of their life.


The amount of screen time means nothing if people aren't seeing the films or just don't like them. The actors racking up all of this screen time you mention are no longer age appropriate for the time period the story has gone to without some serious aging techniques being applied which apparently no one involved with the films is interested in using.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The actors racking up all of this screen time you mention are no longer age appropriate for the time period the story has gone to without some serious aging techniques being applied which apparently no one involved with the films is interested in using.

Well the OC wouldn't work in a 90s movie either. Even though some claims Stewart hasn't aged since the 90s its fair to say he has quite abit. (Even in voice)

Why did one cast need to replace the other? Casting James McAvoy didn't stop them from using Patrick Stewart in DoFP and Logan. They could have developed films in the past and present concurrently. Audiences can handle films with alternating time periods. Logan and Deadpool are proof of this. They were supposedly trying to expand the X universe...

Its likely easier to stick to one cast when you are telling an ongoing story rather than trying to juggle whats happening to the character in the past with whats happening in the present.

Presumbaly Logan was a special case since Hugh Jackman is fairly Royalty to the franchise and you want to give him the best send off possible for his time in the franchise.

 

[Weather Witch]

Why did one cast need to replace the other?

Well the First Class people originally came in because the OT cast was too expensive.

Casting James McAvoy didn't stop them from using Patrick Stewart in DoFP and Logan.

The point of Logan was literally that these characters wouldn't appear again, and DOFP used them to pass the torch to the younger actors.

They could have developed films in the past and present concurrently. Audiences can handle films with alternating time periods. Logan and Deadpool are proof of this.

The time periods are not the problem to me. Having two versions of Storm, Cyclops, Jean, Xavier etc. appearing in movies each year would probably not do either of them any favors.

They were supposedly trying to expand the X universe...

And they can do that. We have a cast of X-Men characters who are appearing in any time period Fox wants to have them in, and we have other characters who star in movies like Deadpool and New Mutants.

It's not exactly recasting either if they are portraying the same character in a different period of their life.

Not exactly no, but it is extremely unncessary. Plus it opens up about a thousand more possible plotholes over time.

The amount of screen time means nothing if people aren't seeing the films or just don't like them.

Apocalypse under preformed yes, but I'm not chalking that up to the cast. As for not liking the cast, most people I've talked to in my country seem to prefer the First Class over the OT cast. Though of course the kids from Apocalypse haven't all fully gotten a chance to prove themselves.

The actors racking up all of this screen time you mention are no longer age appropriate for the time period the story has gone to without some serious aging techniques being applied which apparently no one involved with the films is interested in using.

The comics never really needed this and I don't think the movies do either. They tried this twice with digital effects in X3 and Origins Wolverine and we got plastic looking Xavier and Magneto. Practical aging effects to make them look older probably wouldn't fare much better.

 

[2kt09]

The comics never really needed this and I don't think the movies do either. They tried this twice with digital effects in X3 and Origins Wolverine and we got plastic looking Xavier and Magneto. Practical aging effects to make them look older probably wouldn't fare much better.

Two-fold.
Logan uses those effects given Patrick & Hugh would look nothing like that in actuality.
Two being watching First Class to Apocalypse, the work the make-up team put in is apparent enough to know characters look aged without needing to do that. The odd ones out are Quicksilver & Mystique.
Quicksilver is likely young enough to pass a decade with little change + the whole narrative of not really growing up. Mystique is Mystique.

 

[X-Maniac]

The time periods are not the problem to me. Having two versions of Storm, Cyclops, Jean, Xavier etc. appearing in movies each year would probably not do either of them any favors.

Plus it opens up about a thousand more possible plotholes over time.

I think a large part of the clamour for more of the original cast is that their younger versions have been marginalised so much in the First Class trilogy.

The young Jean, Scott, Storm and Kurt haven't been given much substance, Beast remains underdeveloped despite being in all three First Class films, Jubilee was virtually cut from X:A and Angel was reintroduced only to be killed off. It's frustrating.

Dark Phoenix will no doubt put some focus on Sophie's Jean Grey and hopefully Tye's Scott but I'm not convinced that Kinberg or the studio have much interest in the X-Men themselves. They are instead background characters to pad out the story and give a few cool action moments and power displays.

Even if the mainline franchise was going on beyond Dark Phoenix - which seems unlikely, given the takeover - I very much doubt that Storm, Kurt or Beast would be driving forces in the narrative.

On a personal note, I'd love to see Kelsey Grammer's Beast again, and the rest of the original cast. But I'd settle for the occasional cameo / voiceover / flashback. The Logan story dispensed with the X-Men in such an awful way, it was deeply unsatisfying.

And that was on top of Havok dying in X:A just to give Quicksilver a comedy sequence.

The same applies to

Spoiler

what happened with Bedlam, Shatterstar and Black Tom in Deadpool.

It's like the studio has no respect for the fanbase or the characters at all. These arbitrary deaths just for laughs - or simply to remove people from the story because no one knows what to do with them - are very poorly done and not how to handle these adaptations properly at all.

 

[Weather Witch]

Logan uses those effects given Patrick & Hugh would look nothing like that in actuality.

Fair point on the Logan make-up. Though I'd add Beast and Eric as not having aged enough, and Xavier actually getting younger post-DOFP. Like I said though, that is not a big deal to me. I would like to see Eric with white hair tho.

I think a large part of the clamour for more of the original cast is that their younger versions have been marginalised so much in the First Class trilogy.

So, I wrote a really long reponse and then the forum decided I had to accept some rules first... I can't really be bothered to start all over. The gist of it was that Apocalypse is the first film for those characters and I think it treats them better than X1, but we'll see what happens with them going forward. Fox does have a hand in killing characters tho, that's true. OK so I seem to be going for the long response again anyway. Ah well...

I also did a rant on how people seem to forget mistreatment in the original trilogy, Storm (X1), Cyclops (X2/X3) and Jean (X3). Beast, is a weird case. He has had more to than X3 Beast by far, but that was meant to just be a 'cool' character, whereas Beast has now become fairly static.

In conclusion I genuinly don't get why people see them as 'better characters' purely looking at character development and personality. Sure, I have a soft spot for each of them because there is a lot of history, and a lot of years have passed since they were introduced. But people complain for example that Xavier, Eric and Raven take up too much screentime in the second trilogy, when Charles, Erik, Logan and Rogue (X1) basically did the same in the OT. And as a result most of the OT versions lack the kind of development that would make me want to bring them back in favor of the new versions, which do still feel like they have a lot of potential. Sure they could make the same mistake again going forward, but I'm hoping they don't.

 

[Cktopl33]

Why do you continue to ignore the articles that Fox hired him to oversee. My God lol.

First, we can't blame for the films he co-wrote/wrote, and now he's not overseeing anything therefore we can't blame him for the inconsistencies of the franchise??? Xcuses much.

I haven't ignored anything. It seems YOU are the one ignoring or rather cherry picking articles and you also seem to be ill-informed on certain topics. So let me educate you.

First, Fox didn't hire Kinberg to oversee anything. That's not what a First Look deal is. Genre Films is Kinberg's production company which is no different than Bryan Singer's Bad Hat Harry Productions. They produce films and both companies have produce many of the same x-men movies.

Second, Kinberg signed a First Look deal with Fox, as stated in that article you linked, a deal that ended nearly two years ago around the time X-men Apocalypse released. Bryan Singer had the exact same deal as well. With First Look deals (in this case an agreement between an independent producer and a film studio), the potential buyer pays a development fee to the writer or producer for the right to have the first look at the new material before others in the industry get to see it. It's meant to keep the owner from entering into a transaction with a third party or to acquire certain property newly coming into existence before it can be offered to any other person or entity (in this case not-yet-written script or in-development movie or television project). Basically Fox pays Kinberg's production company a fee to have first look on what ever new material his production company is working on and potentially make an offer to purchase or distribute before he can shop it around. I don't think this would apply to the x-men franchise since Fox already owns those rights. It's not like he can take an idea for an x-men script to another studio. That would have to be created in-house. Fox may come to him first to produce a movie they green-lit. For example: Disney owns THE PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN, and since Jerry Bruckheimer has a first look deal with them, they will go to him first to produce the film. And if you noticed, nowhere is it stated that the First Look deal was specifically for the x-men franchise at all:

Kinberg says he doesn't just want to focus on franchises or established brands. The goal is to make original projects or adaptations of works that he believes deserve a wider audience.

So there you have it. You see what you want to see rather than what's actually stated.

 

[Cktopl33]

It's is quite amazing how you seek to absolve Kinberg of any responsibility for absolutely anything that has ever happened with any of the X-Men films or the Floptastic 4.

Going by what you said, he must be the most impotent writer/producer ever to exist, reduced simply to a mindless puppet who carries out on-set screenplay rewrites to appease studio demands.

I look forward to some interviews where he doesn't sound like he is co-ordinating the entire franchise as, according to you, no one has that role and this then must be why we have the crap system of character selection and atrocious continuity.

When Millar was hired, the Fox studio press release stated:

Twentieth Century Fox has brought on comics superstar Mark Millar to serve as a creative consultant on the studio’s upcoming projects based on Marvel Comics properties.

Millar will work with Fox on developing new avenues for its “X-Men” and “Fantastic Four” tentpoles.

Yet we never heard a word from him since. Seems he was elbowed out of the way by people who already had their ideas.

I'm not saying he was an overseer, but why hire a 'comics superstar' whose work includes Ultimate X-Men if he's not going to be able to have a voice or an influence, and to bring his comics awareness to the franchise (which has very little comics awareness).

I seek to absolve Kinberg of any responsibility in what way? I stated clearly Kinberg is a co-writer and co-producer on these movies. That is a fact based statement. Every writer carries out on-set screenplay rewrites to appease studio demands. That's common knowledge in Hollywood film-making. Every script undergoes multiple rewrites. He's not responsible for the outcome said past movies because that's the director's job. It seems you're the one trying to absolve responsibility from said titles, not me.

And with Mark Millar.....again.....you seem not to understand what a creative consultant does in the film industry. It's the exact same thing Kinberg has done with star wars or other Disney properties. They are simply involved in the writing process for scripts. Not much more than that. It's usually an non-credited role. Regarding Millar, you'll have to take that up with 20th Century Fox who would be responsible for any deals established with Millar. At the time Bryan Singer seemed to have his own ideas on where the x-men franchise should go and didn't seem particularly interested in Millar when he was directing Days of Future Past:

"I've not spoken to Mark Millar at all. He’s not involved. I don’t know what his role is about. All I know is that I have my own specific beliefs about how to take this universe forward. I started with the first X-Men, then First Class and now I am combining them and I think it could go further than that and I have some ideas about that, so perhaps he should chat to me at some point."

 

[2kt09]

Fair point on the Logan make-up. Though I'd add Beast and Eric as not having aged enough, and Xavier actually getting younger post-DOFP. Like I said though, that is not a big deal to me.

Just to put it out there:

 

[EnDz0n3]

That's not 20 years aging though. That's the actors' normal aging from the 5 years between those movies. Aside from Xavier's wig, that's how those actors look between 2011 and 2016...

Star Wars fans have more things to worry about than Simon LOL. I've never seen a fanbase turn on franchise so quickly. Hope they improve with episode 9.

I sincerely hope they get him

The X-Men being celebrities isn't something that the comics haven't done either. X-Factor became celebrities and recognized and celebrated mutant superheroes after they stopped the Four Horsemen and Apocalypse from destroying New York City.

The X-men being celebrities I don't mind. Mutants being accepted at the start of Apocalypse (a storyline borne from JLaw not wanting to be under make-up) I didn't mind either.

But these movie premises always inevitably end up being the same. "Naive" Xavier thinks everything is finally right, "hero" Mystique is there to show him the light. Meanwhile Magneto switches sides and Beast chews scenery.

Aside from DOFP where Xavier (finally!) knows better than Mystique, all three movies in the trilogy played out the same. Phoenix was the perfect opportunity to ditch Mystique and Magneto...afterall it's been 10 years...but no.

 

[Charzhin0]

If somehow Comcast take over Fox i hope they do a pseudo reboot and push Xmen into the future. Keep McAvoy as Professor X but age him up to the present day. Do same with Fassbenders Magneto (but use him sparingly). Ditch everyone else from this new trilogy and recast adult versions of every other character.

 

[Charzhin0]

But these movie premises always inevitably end up being the same. "Naive" Xavier thinks everything is finally right, "hero" Mystique is there to show him the light. Meanwhile Magneto switches sides and Beast chews scenery.

They only did that in Apocalypse.

In First Class Xavier is hesitant about making mutants public and works covertly.

DOFP he gives up on his dream to forming the mansion, giving mutants positive public exposure and integrating humans.

Apocalypse, he is close to realising those dreams but is naive on whats happening on the underground level.

Those are 3 unique stories. My complaints would be angled at the reused trope of Magneto in each film crossing Xavier. And the over emphasis of making the story all about Xavier at the expense of others.

 

[GuestStar2004]

If somehow Comcast take over Fox i hope they do a pseudo reboot and push Xmen into the future. Keep McAvoy as Professor X but age him up to the present day. Do same with Fassbenders Magneto (but use him sparingly). Ditch everyone else from this new trilogy and recast adult versions of every other character.

Well technically the characters in DP are adults in the 90s. Young adults but adults non the less.

I am actually quite puzzled as to why people get so funny about things not being set in present day. I mean what's the overall expectation behind something being set in present day that changes all that much? I sometimes feel there is no expectation, it's just feeling they are missing out on something if its set in the past.

If its just to avoid having to stress about their age then thats fair enough but really thats the only thing it changes beyond being able to talk about something like Twitter or Justin Bieber in modern day standards

 

[Charzhin0]

Well technically the characters in DP are adults in the 90s. Young adults but adults non the less.

I am actually quite puzzled as to why people get so funny about things not being set in present day. I mean what's the overall expectation behind something being set in present day that changes all that much? I sometimes feel there is no expectation, it's just feeling they are missing out on something if its set in the past.

If its just to avoid having to stress about their age then thats fair enough but really thats the only thing it changes beyond being able to talk about something like Twitter or Justin Bieber in modern day standards

I think you can still recast guys like cyclops, storm, Jean etc with mature adult actors and set the franchise in current day whilst keeping McAvoy and Fassbender as its easier to "age up" actors than de-age them. The allure of setting in present day is 2 fold. One its better to have adult Xmen in their prime at 30-38 years old (like Avengers) rather than the younger versions. And secondly setting in the present day allows crossover with entities like Gambit, Deadpool and New Mutants.

 

[psylockolussus]

Good God arguing that Nicholas Hoult has so much screentime when he's usually an afterthought in these X films and his portrayal of Beast just plain sucks.

 

[psylockolussus]

Just to put it out there:

It didn't look like its been twenty years. Honestly, it looks like you just picked the other shots where their wrinkles are visible, but in most of their screentime in Apocalypse - they still looked pretty young since their appearance in First Class. Like its more believable that its only been five years not eXactly decades. And from the first few pictures from Dark PhoeniX, once again it doesn't look like its been 30 years and ten years since the last film. They aren't putting any effort to make these actors look older but only making them look stressed and tired because of the consequences happening in the films. Like I eXpected Magneto to have white hair now. Beast should look way more mature now.

 

[GuestStar2004]

One its better to have adult Xmen in their prime at 30-38 years old (like Avengers) rather than the younger versions.

Its debatable whether that makes a big difference at all given the circumstances.

[And secondly setting in the present day allows crossover with entities like Gambit, Deadpool and New Mutants.

I suspect if they really wanted too they would find a way to do it no matter when the film are set. Presumably it's more down to everyone doing their own thing and films makers being less interested in touching or giving out characters that another film maker currently has their own plan with.

There isn't enough communication between film makers to pull off throwing characters back and forth.

The Wolverine end credit scene to DOFP and maybe the X-Men cameo in Deadpool being a mild exception

 

[psylockolussus]

One its better to have adult Xmen in their prime at 30-38 years old (like Avengers) rather than the younger versions. And secondly setting in the present day allows crossover with entities like Gambit, Deadpool and New Mutants.

Which FoX should have realized after the success of Dofp. Like the OT cast could have been used as branches to the spin offs, the way the Avengers are being spread out in different solo films.

Instead we have a New Mutants film that don't feature any of the X-Men from the previous films. The X-Men aren't really essential to the Deadpool films, like we know that they're there, but eXcept for Colossus, no one gives a **** about Deadpool which is so unlike the X-Men from the comics, and obviously there's no build up happening with a X-Force and X-Men team up or at least Deadpool/X-Men team up. Gambit would lose nothing with a Rogue/X-Men cameo, leading to his potential membership with the team. But as of now there doesn't seem to be a possibility that Gambit would later end up in the X-Men, the way, Black Panther, Capt Marvel, Ant-Man and Dr. Strange are in the Avengers after their solo flick/s. Fox's model of their franchise is just not ideal which would continue to hold back the franchise's success. They can't even get the other X-Men when they killed off both Logan and Xavier? Imagine that happening in a MCU film.

 

[2kt09]

It didn't look like its been twenty years. Honestly, it looks like you just picked the other shots where their wrinkles are visible, but in most of their screentime in Apocalypse - they still looked pretty young since their appearance in First Class. Like its more believable that its only been five years not eXactly decades. And from the first few pictures from Dark PhoeniX, once again it doesn't look like its been 30 years and ten years since the last film. They aren't putting any effort to make these actors look older but only making them look stressed and tired because of the consequences happening in the films. Like I eXpected Magneto to have white hair now. Beast should look way more mature now.

Both Hoult and McAvoy were so baby-faced back in First Class. It's like they went through a 2nd puberty and then some.
Fassbender went from suave classic 007 to Daniel Craig.