Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[SpiderSense]

Oddly enough I rewatched Apocalypse last night. I still think the final battle is awesome.

Non of the final battle felt natural to me. I did enjoy it but the beat and psylock fight was far to reliant on wire work. Even when beast catches the car it feels like you’re watching a behind the scenes shot of it.

I liked nightcrawlers scenes though.

The car catch is the only thing that I felt was noticeably weak; it didn't feel like there was force and speed behind it.

Storms flying and beasts and Psyloke choreography (while you cam tell it wire work) didn't take me out of the film; there was still fluidity to their movements.

While it obviously just a short snippet in the trailer, the shot of beats jumping over the guard in the train carriage looked great; it had speed and weight behind it.

Yeah I completely agree with the beast part from the trailer. I liked it!

 

[Legion]

Apocalypse end fight had major potential but failed to match it. The nightcrawler vs Angel fight should have been longer and more dynamic with Kurt bamphing hella lot more dodging Angels spikes. Astral plane fight looked off, I think the modelling of giant size Apocalypse had no realistic weight to it. The idea was great.
Psylocke vs Beast was decent though. Cyclops vs Storm was really really limited, just 2 standard long range attacks

I thought a psychic like Xavier could do incredible things on the astral plane? All he did was stand and throw a punch.

Apocalypse easily defeated him as well. As far as we know Apocalypse doesnt have any psychic ability and he deeply coveted Xavier's power but completely owned him in his "home".

Then there's the setting...the X-Mansion, a place we've seen so much of in these films. They couldn't come up with something a little more interesting for the first battle ever on the astral plane?

 

[Lip]

There wasn't any creativity and imagination in the fight scenes in Apocalypse.

 

[SumT]

totally uninspired.
just like the script (but who's surprised? none lol)

 

[Jh7058622]

What do you call Wolverine vs Mystique, Wolverine vs Sabretooth, and Wolverine vs Deathstrike if not "fight" scenes?

I agree that outside of Wolverine and Nightcrawler, Singer had serious limitations in portraying the X-Men as skilled fighters, but it's not like there never were good fight scenes...

Idk where the Hell this false narrative of X-Men films only having action fight scenes in X3 came from. X2 had Cyclops, Wolverine, Mystique, Nightcrawler and Deathstrike in some great action fight scenes.

 

[Jh7058622]

There wasn't any creativity and imagination in the fight scenes in Apocalypse.

That I agree with. Bryan Singer used to use Storms powers so creatively (X1 Snowstorm against Sabertooth, X2 tornadoes against the fighter jets in the Blackbird, DOFP using the jet's engine to nuke the sentinels and all the teamwork in that film)

Then in Apocalypse lightening for every occasion. That's it. I wanted a whirlwind at least one more time in this franchise (and it seems like they will this film thank God).

 

[lofoa82]

Apocalypse showed the poor moment Bryan was (is?) in. It's not the worst movie of the franchise, but Bryan really dropped the ball. If something was clear from X1, X2 and DOFP is that he has taste on doing a good movie and a coherent narrative.

Apocalypse had some brilliant moments and poor moments, which only reflect what was going on with Bryan.

For me, it's still above X-Men Origins Wolverine and X3, and kinda tied with The Wolverine. I still suffer with the third act. Totally different tone of movie. I can't still believe Mangold approved it and the overall rewrites over the McQuarrie's script. What a shame.

 

[ciscostudent561]

. Cyclops vs Storm was really really limited, just 2 standard long range attacks

with Stormtrooper aim... way to make our X-men look hapless

 

[Cktopl33]

Last thing I'll say on the Apocalypse final battle. Most of the complaints I'm seeing on here weren't a factor for me. Personally I prefer action that's done practically. So I'd rather have an actor on wires rather than them standing in front of a green screen, or creating an entire CG model to float in the sky. I'm also looking at that battle not only from an action perspective, but a story perspective. I like that it's used to wrap up multiple character arcs at the same time.

Apocalypse had problems, but the action wasn't one of them for me.

I don't mind if an actor is on wires....if it looks right. Storm never looked right flying in these movies to me. None of the wire-work looked good in my opinion. It didn't look believable, as if someone was actually flying. The CGI stuff dosn't bother me as long as it's not rushed. The Apocalypse final battle you could tell was unnatural. It just didn't look believable. Perhaps that's why Kinberg wanted to get out into the open on the streets where the camera can move around rather than confined on sound stages. It seems like all the battle sequences take place outside (or lead out to open spaces) except for the space shuttle rescue mission.

 

[lofoa82]

I didn't like the most of the action in Apocalypse (sans the X-Weapon montage). The wire work in the Beast V Psylocke was terrible. It looks like a circus choreograph. No sense of weight or gravity at all. sighs...

 

[EnDz0n3]

The Apocalypse final battle you could tell was unnatural. It just didn't look believable. Perhaps that's why Kinberg wanted to get out into the open on the streets where the camera can move around rather than confined on sound stages.

The Apocalypse final battle was outdoors, in an open lot, about 20 mins away from MELS. It wasn’t in a soundstage.

This idea that Kinberg made an open set "to get out into the open on the streets" for Dark Phoenix because he was unhappy with the previous movie is divorced from reality. This franchise has been doing this since at least DOFP. Do you guys not remember the ginormous White House lawn set?

 

[Frankeh]

Last thing I'll say on the Apocalypse final battle. Most of the complaints I'm seeing on here weren't a factor for me. Personally I prefer action that's done practically. So I'd rather have an actor on wires rather than them standing in front of a green screen, or creating an entire CG model to float in the sky. I'm also looking at that battle not only from an action perspective, but a story perspective. I like that it's used to wrap up multiple character arcs at the same time.

Apocalypse had problems, but the action wasn't one of them for me.

But the Apocalypse third act was the opposite of practical. Everything looked fake, down to the wirework, and the choreography just wasn't there.

 

[Charzhin0]

I thought a psychic like Xavier could do incredible things on the astral plane? All he did was stand and throw a punch.

Apocalypse easily defeated him as well. As far as we know Apocalypse doesnt have any psychic ability and he deeply coveted Xavier's power but completely owned him in his "home".

Then there's the setting...the X-Mansion, a place we've seen so much of in these films. They couldn't come up with something a little more interesting for the first battle ever on the astral plane?

Well the Xmansion spawn worked well because Xavier says your in my house now. But when Apocalypse overpowered him, the setting should have changed to ancient Egypt next to the River Nile or something.

Apocalypse is shown to have some sort of psychic grasp in the movie but it didnt bother me so much that he subdued a powerful psychic in Xavier. Just wish the fight was a little longer and had varied forms of attack from Charles. This is where imaginative thinking is a must, as weve seen in Dr Strange realm fights, Xavier could have easily projected multiple copies of himself to confuse him and in turn Apocalypse could have been given some hand shape shifting weaponry .

 

[marvintabacon]

I created this manips out of frustration bec of how they marketed this movie as jlaw’s movie hehehehe.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well visually its probably more interesting to do it at the mansion in a dream-like abnormal fashion where things could get abit weird then it would in the wide open river nile setting. But i think many see closed spaces as not very imaginative because there is less detail to fill.

Bryan apparently didn't like action for the sake of action. so i am guessing anything that involved action that didn't have a purpose to it. So Xavier has the upper-hand, then apocalypse has the upper-hand. no filler action where its just throwing mutual cool visuals at each other.

 

[Nadia]

Well the Xmansion spawn worked well because Xavier says your in my house now. But when Apocalypse overpowered him, the setting should have changed to ancient Egypt next to the River Nile or something.

Apocalypse is shown to have some sort of psychic grasp in the movie but it didnt bother me so much that he subdued a powerful psychic in Xavier. Just wish the fight was a little longer and had varied forms of attack from Charles. This is where imaginative thinking is a must, as weve seen in Dr Strange realm fights, Xavier could have easily projected multiple copies of himself to confuse him and in turn Apocalypse could have been given some hand shape shifting weaponry .

I believe Macvoy in an interview once during first class they had planned a psychic battle between Xavier and Emma. I'm was going to be them flying around and the walls moving,moeretcsptive changes etc.
Then inception came out and they felt they had to abandon it because it would look like a ripoff of the dream sequences.

While I think it's more an illusion/projection (as opposed to the telepathic plane) I think the smoke visuals used when Chastain transforms the room in the trailer look significantly better than those used in the telepathic scene in Apocalypse.
If they do decide to have a telepathic confrontation between Xavier and Jean/ Chastain, I feel it will be more visually interesting.

 

[psyonic]

If they don't have the telepathic battle between Jean and Xavier.. :/

 

[GuestStar2004]

It sounds like Jean already has the upper hand anyway. Xavier clearly can't stop her.

 

[marvintabacon]

It sounds like Jean already has the upper hand anyway. Xavier clearly can't stop her.

 

[fobi]

It sounds like Jean already has the upper hand anyway. Xavier clearly can't stop her.

Spoiler

If it's true that she made him get up and walk I'd imagine he wouldn't stand a chance in a mental battle.

 

[Vasilios]

I thought a psychic like Xavier could do incredible things on the astral plane? All he did was stand and throw a punch.

Apocalypse easily defeated him as well. As far as we know Apocalypse doesnt have any psychic ability and he deeply coveted Xavier's power but completely owned him in his "home".

Then there's the setting...the X-Mansion, a place we've seen so much of in these films. They couldn't come up with something a little more interesting for the first battle ever on the astral plane?

They did a much better astral plane fight on Legion.

 

[Nadia]

It sounds like Jean already has the upper hand anyway. Xavier clearly can't stop her.

My personal guess/hope is atleast during the confrontation at her home he takes her on telepathical while the others take her on physically. While he won't be able to subdue her, he can atleast provide a distraction to draw her focus from the physical attack.

 

[Charzhin0]

Well visually its probably more interesting to do it at the mansion in a dream-like abnormal fashion where things could get abit weird then it would in the wide open river nile setting. But i think many see closed spaces as not very imaginative because there is less detail to fill.

Bryan apparently didn't like action for the sake of action. so i am guessing anything that involved action that didn't have a purpose to it. So Xavier has the upper-hand, then apocalypse has the upper-hand. no filler action where its just throwing mutual cool visuals at each other.

Well not necessarily has to be in an open Nile area. Even an indoor tomb inside a pyramid. Anything to visually affirm that Apocalypse has turned the tables and Xavier is in "his house now".

 

[Nadia]

Well not necessarily has to be in an open Nile area. Even an indoor tomb inside a pyramid. Anything to visually affirm that Apocalypse has turned the tables and Xavier is in "his house now".

Growing in size (asserting dominance) and throwing Xavier around like rag doll, I feel is an effective way to show he turned the tables.
Ultimately, I think it need to remain in the "X-mansion" because they needed the cerebro doors for Jean to enter (which is one of my favourite scenes in the film).

My hope for Dark Pheonix (if they have a telepathic fight) is that they move away from the "grey void" visual of the the dimension.
That's what I found to be the most boring aspect of the scene; I feel it should be vibrant and pulsing (like neurones) and have a feeling of life and creativity from which anything can be summoned.

Some of the shots of Xavier studying Jeans mind in cerebro should that it was full of fire, so I feel that would be great.

 

[Marvel united]

Deal closes on the 20th. Now the question is - what will Disney do with this movie?