Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[flickchick85]

I didn't think this film was bad. It was just...aggressively mediocre. Sophie did fine, imo, and the train sequence was alright. But man, what a whimper to go out with.

 

[EnDz0n3]

The leaks Vuk actually succeeds at manipulating Jean and Charles’s worst fear happens.

??

 

[Hand Banana]

??

NM.

 

[psylockolussus]

This is what I have been fantasizing about since I saw the DOFP Epilogue. It felt like a fresh start for the original cast and a conclusion to the arcs of the First Class cast. I think Olivia Munn’s Psylocke would have been a better fit with Famke’s Jean, James’ Cyclops and Halle’s Storm.

I remember LSD in 2014 after the release of DOFP retweeting and liking Tweets which clamored for the return of the original cast for another movie.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Ok I have no idea who these reviewers are but this is way too funny

 

[By your Command]

I hated everything about this film, but i will defend sophie. She really tried, but not even meryl streep could pull of the crap she was forced to say.

The problem was never the acting, everyone acted the best they could with the material they were given, they gave it their all, I mean Mystique literally telling Hank that she wants to leave the X-Men, that was an Oscar-worthy performance, you could almost feel it was real, as if she wanted to leave... I wonder what inspired Jennifer Lawrence’s performance that day?

 

[EnDz0n3]

The problem was never the acting, everyone acted the best they could with the material they were given, they gave it their all, I mean Mystique literally telling Hank that she wants to leave the X-Men, that was an Oscar-worthy performance, you could almost feel it was real, as if she wanted to leave... I wonder what inspired Jennifer Lawrence’s performance that day?

She should've said "I'd rather be in Guardians." And a reaction shot of Hoult face "Whatchu talking about?"

 

[Erik Lensherr]

 

[Sage2016]

Donner wanted a version of Apocalypse that would have seen the OT face of against him. DoFP in her eyes was a reset to continue with the OT, and we would have LOVED that.

So would have everyone else. That’s why she’s distancing herself with anything to do with this new cast. She never had anything to do with them.

I would've watched OT Apocalypse a gazillion times at the cinema. I've never felt emotionally invested in the younger cast, but then it's not like I was given much reason to. Olivia Munn would've fit more into an OT one aswell.

 

[SpiderSense]

The leaks Vuk actually succeeds at manipulating Jean and Charles’s worst fear happens.

What was the original cut?

 

[ScarletWiccan]

Hey everyone! I'm new posting, but something's shown up on the MarvelatFox subreddit and I wanted to share. No idea if anyone's already posted this. Someone on ATRL has posted about what's gone on in terms of the film's production, and why things went so downhill. I'll quote it down below and link the ATRL page at the bottom.

" - Okay so there are some HUGE name OSCAR winning people behind the scenes creating this movie, look them up on IMDB. They ALL signed on to a FINISHED two part script, and were hired for their experience and talent, to bring together the huge undertaking of filming TWO movies.

- The two movies were to be filmed together. The plan was to film most of the huge action pieces first. So the UN set, the largest of any X film, as well as the New York night street battle set, were all being built. These to sets were the THIRD act sets for each movie, with the UN set serving as the HUGE invasion style finale for PART TWO! Part one‘s finale set, is still partially in THIS movie, albeit scaled down, and with key players missing. It also serves as the close of the second act, opposed to a final act battle.

- Fox, with about 2 months until principal photography, BLINDSIDED the entire team, CUT the budget and informed the creative team to scale it down to ONE movie. They were not told of any reason (no employee at Fox knew about the merger until it was announced, only higher ups). They scrambled. They had to rewrite an ENTIRE script, pulling together pieces and ideas from the old ones, while COMPLETELY cutting out characters, set pieces, sequences, and changing some characters motivations.

- The biggest omission from this is the Shi’ar!!!!! Yes the Shi’ar were to be introduced and fleshed out in the scrapped two part movies. Simon KNEW bringing them in this new script would be foolish, drawing away the spotlight from Jean. Having to do their origin story, as well as a certain character’s relationship with Charles, while also telling Jeans descent into darkness, in a two hour time frame, was UNREALISTIC. Things had to be cut guys.

- Jessica Chastain signed on to play LILANDRA! When the scripted changed, they had to delay her from shooting, while they figured out who she would play and how she would be involved. Eventually Jessica started TWO and a half months after all the other actors had started.

- Because they already had sets built for the original idea, they had to use them, also with the budget cut, they couldn’t just destroy them and build new ones. They incorporated them into this singular movie. While they had managed to rewrite the first two acts, by the time shooting had begun, THEY HAD BARELY a working script for the third act lol. Just ideas.

- The reason Jessica kept teasing her character was because even after the rewrites, they still intended her to be Lilandra. They filmed a whole scene of her introducing herself to the world as the Empress, although the Shi’ar are NOT named, instead she leads a mysterious grey humanoid alien race. They realised she resembled NOTHING of Lilandra, so shot an alternate version of her being nameless, which would have been the cut we saw, had they kept the old third act. Basically someone needed to have a chat with Jessica lmao!

- When Fox reviewed the footage, and seeing the test audience feedback, they realised their blunder, and allowed for additional photography to commence (reshoots).They realised in doing so, they would have to push back the film. Fox wanted the February date while Kinberg urged them for a later date, because the reshoots would end in September, and the film coming out in Feb wouldn’t allow enough time to edit, score and add effects. Keep in mind they are REPLACING a whole third act. Fox Announces the Valentine’s Day release anyway.

When everything was completed, FOX again realised the effects weren’t going to be complete lol, so agreed to move it to the current date, ON THE CONDITION a trailer was to be released in order to soften the delay. The trailer would have the new date, and would be the announcement. Somewhere in the shuffle, the company that cuts trailers, left the Feb date on and was released. The biggest LOL....

Because the delay in rewrites, they had to cut out, Storm, Beast, Magneto, who all had other commitments by the time filming the old third act had started. Easiest option was to have them “captured”. This new Sequence corrects that! Only Evan Peters (Quicksilver) was unavailable to do both (AHS) lol."

At first I wasn't sure, but everything that's said here feels like it has truth to it. Olivia Munn's "two part" comment, the shoot that was supposed to be seven months finishing early, and the whispers that the shi'ar were being developed just after Dark Phoenix was announced. I have no idea if this person is legit, but all of this sounds believable.

Link to ATRL post: https://atrl.net/forums/topic/419-x...astain/?page=89&tab=comments#comment-12932457

It's about halfway down, posted by the user Kelli101

 

[Greenend]

oliva nunn barely talked in Apocalypse.

I hated everything about this film, but i will defend sophie. She really tried, but not even meryl streep could pull of the crap she was forced to say.

Sophie was not right for the role. I keep thinking ....what female mutant can she play, I think she would have suited for Jubilee not jean. Jubilee still looks far off.

 

[Alison Blaire]

 

[Hand Banana]

Hey everyone! I'm new posting, but something's shown up on the MarvelatFox subreddit and I wanted to share. No idea if anyone's already posted this. Someone on ATRL has posted about what's gone on in terms of the film's production, and why things went so downhill. I'll quote it down below and link the ATRL page at the bottom.

" - Okay so there are some HUGE name OSCAR winning people behind the scenes creating this movie, look them up on IMDB. They ALL signed on to a FINISHED two part script, and were hired for their experience and talent, to bring together the huge undertaking of filming TWO movies.

- The two movies were to be filmed together. The plan was to film most of the huge action pieces first. So the UN set, the largest of any X film, as well as the New York night street battle set, were all being built. These to sets were the THIRD act sets for each movie, with the UN set serving as the HUGE invasion style finale for PART TWO! Part one‘s finale set, is still partially in THIS movie, albeit scaled down, and with key players missing. It also serves as the close of the second act, opposed to a final act battle.

- Fox, with about 2 months until principal photography, BLINDSIDED the entire team, CUT the budget and informed the creative team to scale it down to ONE movie. They were not told of any reason (no employee at Fox knew about the merger until it was announced, only higher ups). They scrambled. They had to rewrite an ENTIRE script, pulling together pieces and ideas from the old ones, while COMPLETELY cutting out characters, set pieces, sequences, and changing some characters motivations.

- The biggest omission from this is the Shi’ar!!!!! Yes the Shi’ar were to be introduced and fleshed out in the scrapped two part movies. Simon KNEW bringing them in this new script would be foolish, drawing away the spotlight from Jean. Having to do their origin story, as well as a certain character’s relationship with Charles, while also telling Jeans descent into darkness, in a two hour time frame, was UNREALISTIC. Things had to be cut guys.

- Jessica Chastain signed on to play LILANDRA! When the scripted changed, they had to delay her from shooting, while they figured out who she would play and how she would be involved. Eventually Jessica started TWO and a half months after all the other actors had started.

- Because they already had sets built for the original idea, they had to use them, also with the budget cut, they couldn’t just destroy them and build new ones. They incorporated them into this singular movie. While they had managed to rewrite the first two acts, by the time shooting had begun, THEY HAD BARELY a working script for the third act lol. Just ideas.

- The reason Jessica kept teasing her character was because even after the rewrites, they still intended her to be Lilandra. They filmed a whole scene of her introducing herself to the world as the Empress, although the Shi’ar are NOT named, instead she leads a mysterious grey humanoid alien race. They realised she resembled NOTHING of Lilandra, so shot an alternate version of her being nameless, which would have been the cut we saw, had they kept the old third act. Basically someone needed to have a chat with Jessica lmao!

- When Fox reviewed the footage, and seeing the test audience feedback, they realised their blunder, and allowed for additional photography to commence (reshoots).They realised in doing so, they would have to push back the film. Fox wanted the February date while Kinberg urged them for a later date, because the reshoots would end in September, and the film coming out in Feb wouldn’t allow enough time to edit, score and add effects. Keep in mind they are REPLACING a whole third act. Fox Announces the Valentine’s Day release anyway.

When everything was completed, FOX again realised the effects weren’t going to be complete lol, so agreed to move it to the current date, ON THE CONDITION a trailer was to be released in order to soften the delay. The trailer would have the new date, and would be the announcement. Somewhere in the shuffle, the company that cuts trailers, left the Feb date on and was released. The biggest LOL....

Because the delay in rewrites, they had to cut out, Storm, Beast, Magneto, who all had other commitments by the time filming the old third act had started. Easiest option was to have them “captured”. This new Sequence corrects that! Only Evan Peters (Quicksilver) was unavailable to do both (AHS) lol."

At first I wasn't sure, but everything that's said here feels like it has truth to it. Olivia Munn's "two part" comment, the shoot that was supposed to be seven months finishing early, and the whispers that the shi'ar were being developed just after Dark Phoenix was announced. I have no idea if this person is legit, but all of this sounds believable.

Link to ATRL post: https://atrl.net/forums/topic/419-x...astain/?page=89&tab=comments#comment-12932457

It's about halfway down, posted by the user Kelli101

John Campea alluded to this months ago.

 

[Sage2016]

I remember this floating around back then and thinking "ah if only"

 

[Karl Tanner]

This is what’s wrong with the internet. You seem like a beautiful person inside and out.

Such hypocrisy. Thanks anyways.

I didn't know there were so many sophie turner fans here. I just said her acting skills are average and she can't lead a blockbuster. When in doubt, Hollywood generally uses very beautiful actresses to make up for their acting skills but turner is not that beautiful also. I didn't say she was ugly or anything like that. She's kinda beautiful but kinda is not enough to carry a film when you are not great at acting also.

I simply stated the harsh truth. If it was up to me I would evaluate every actor/actresses by their acting skills alone but we don't live in that world.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

The Executive Producer doesn't know anything about the films that is attached to her banner.

That should tell us everything.

I think LSD is the one who actually purchased the film rights and brought it to fox which is why she is still credited. The same way Stan lee is credit as executive producer in stuff too.

 

[-JKR-]

I think LSD is the one who actually purchased the film rights and brought it to fox which is why she is still credited. The same way Stan lee is credit as executive producer in stuff too.

Yes, she was the one who developed the entire enterprise.
As I understand, she had a falling out with the others after Days of Future Past, bc she pushed for the original cast to be reintroduced with the new status quo, which yeah, woulde have made more sense.

 

[jignat]

Can you guys not spoilers in here?

I think someone has already spoiled who Chastain is. I'd rather not see anymore.
Thanks.

 

[Matt.S99]

Maybe LSD didn’t stay completely true to the source material, but she really did care about the franchise and the original cast. I did not know until these comments that she wanted the original cast to be in Apocalypse. Now I’m more upset.
I always thought it would have made more sense that way. I always thought it was so strange that this big bad that was supposed to bring upon the...Apocalypse would be facing off against newbies. There were no real stakes at hand. We all knew the outcome. If it were the original cast, it would have been much more emotionally impactful.

 

[DACrowe]

Whelp I saw it.

It's not good. It's not a disaster either like so many have claimed--including critics who are strangely piling on with a mob mentality with hyperbole--but it is most definitely a mediocre movie. I dig in deeper with spoilers below.

Spoiler

Why it didn't work:

Spoiler

Surprise, surprise - Simon Kinberg is still a terrible writer. He doesn't write dialogue between characters, but rather exposition that explains each character's motivation, "I just buried my foster sister," as opposed to revealing the depths of their sadness or pain. He just has them state what is going on in them, which is not the same thing. That or clumsy dialogue to get the plot from A to B, "Someone spotted Jean in New York." As a result the drama falls flat, and because this attempts to be a drama about what Jean is going through the movie is flat.

It doesn't help that Jean's turn from in control to out of control is 0 to 60, and Sophie Turner, as much as I like her on Game of Thrones and as a celebrity personality, could not pull off Jean's dark turn I'm sad to say. With a better script and likely more seasoned director she could've probably been serviceable (see: Game of Thrones) but she was left out high and dry here.

The aliens... just no.

What it actually did pretty well: Not so surprisingly, the score is amazing Hans Zimmer knocked it out of the park. It created better tension than Kinberg's flat script and unconfident direction, and it also is just a wowzer of an X-Men score. 'Tis a pity no one will remember it.

The action is really great. The reshoots paid off, as that train sequence is dynamite and, unsurprisingly, the space sequence they teased for months at the beginning was top-notch. The X-Men were actually behaving like X-Men in space. It's a great moment. Also the X-Men behaving like themselves at school with their hair down afterward. We could've used more scenes like that and of seeing Jean in her day-to-day slowly being corrupted by the Phoenix Force, which would've made the transformation more painful. I know some will dislike that a lot of practical effects instead of heavy CGI were used in sequences like the Central Park fight, but to me that was a highlight. It felt down and dirty while actually feeling like the X-Men comics more than most Bryan Singer-directed action sequences (with several notable exceptions).

McAvoy and Fassbender don't know how to phone it in (ahem, JLaw) and are good, even if Fassy is given very little to do. And Nicholas Hoult gave his best performance as Beast in this movie. After four movies, he's finally allowed to do some good stuff, albeit it still makes no sense why he transforms between human and blue.

Overall it's a 5.5-6/10 from me. Not a good movie, but better than Venom that got better reviews and honestly not that far off from Captain Marvel in terms of quality, which was even patchier in terms of post-production reshoot muddying. But it had the benefit of starring Brie Larson and not being part of a franchise where folks had their knives out. Mediocrity was tolerated from the MCU, from Fox-Marvel, it was an excuse to execute.

 

[DACrowe]

I'm not sad that this is the way the Fox Men run is ending. The saga that started with X1 already ended in DOFP.

Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix are merely Fox's version of the Amazing Spider-Man films. The First Class series went from being "soft reboot" Prequels to becoming a poorly executed reboot.

It is a shame, because I thought First Class and DOFP were among the best in the genre. They had such vitality. To see where Simon Kinberg (and Bryan Singer too) took the franchise afterward... is quite depressing. The definition of wasted potential.

Ah well, we still got Logan and Deadpool out of this era. I will say Dark Phoenix convinced me that it needs to be rebooted... which it really didn't only 5 years ago. You're right about taking a fresh series and turning it into the next TASM. Sigh.

 

[X-Maniac]

I will say that the 3D version is really nice. I can't remember being wowed by the 3D effect from the 'forest party' onwards, so it felt to me like they gave up on it a bit, but it works really well for the space sequence and the Cerebo sequences.

I may go to see it again in 3D.

But the film overall is very 'meh.'

Sophie looks fantastic at the start of the film, and she does her best. I saw she looked tired and had eyebags later on, probably all the reshoots right on top of Game of Thrones.

 

[metaphysician]

“Bechdel test.”

I’m old enough to remember how Chastain and Kinberg told us this is a movie about X-women. Besides Jean, who else is an X-woman that this movie puts a spotlight on? I guess Mystique. Certainly not Storm. Who else?? Chastain’s alien character? Nope you’re not an X-woman.

Which is why the thing I find incredibly angering is. . .

Spoiler

the X-Woman line? Might have worked fine with a little more finesse, given that Xavier has always had an element of the paternal chauvinist, in both the comics and the movies.

. . . presuming, of course, that it were said by *Jean Grey*, whose the actual narrative woman-with-power that he is controlling in the story. As opposed to, say, *Mystique*, who has largely been popping in and taking the story role *of others* ever since DOFP.

 

[Detective Conan]