Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[The Guard]

Yeah, I don’t even remember her emotions being discussed earlier. So it came out of no where.

They weren't discussed directly. They were shown.

Like half the movie is about her being emotionally tested, her emotional reaction to things, her difficulty controlling those reactions, the traumas that eventually creates, and then her dealing with the aftermath of those emotions and traumas.

 

[martinp1]

anyone know any truth to supposed rumor of the movie starting off with a baseball game and then the Shi'ar spaceship landing on the school grounds?

 

[Dark Raven]

anyone know any truth to supposed rumor of the movie starting off with a baseball game?

I don't know about that, but that looks reminiscent of an X-Men comic from around #301 or so, when the X-Men were playing baseball and then Rogue flew up to catch the ball and went so high into the atmosphere that she passed by Air Force One and left a lipstick mark on the plane window while President Ronald Reagan was sitting in it.

 

[martinp1]

 

[Cktopl33]

Smaller investment? You just said Fox okayed a two-picture deal with Kinberg. It's like which came first: the chicken or the egg? They couldn't have okayed a smaller investment with Kinberg at the helm when they (you say) gave him the go-ahead to do two movies.

Methinks your conspiracy theories are half-baked.

Fox never okayed a two-picture deal with Kinberg, from what I understand. It's obvious the studio was aware of Kinberg's idea of a two-parter script when he pitched it and wrote it during pre-production. But they only told him to condense into one film and change other parts of the script after they greenlit money for production costs on the movie. So Kinberg found out he wouldn't be doing a two-parter right before they got ready to start shooting (thus had to rework the story to fit the production costs given by the studio). Kinberg apparently budgeted for a two-parter but that's not what the studio gave him. This was obviously because only a small handful knew the studio wouldn't be around for much longer but failed to tell anyone else working at Fox. Sure, they could have spared all this trouble and told the creative team there won't be more movies after this when the concept of a two-parter was first proposed thereby giving more time to properly rewrite the movie (or even shoot a completely different story), but that wasn't their concern. None of the films entering production at the time or plans for future projects from other creative teams were given any thought. The deal was more important (and more profitable for them). I don't think some of the execs attached to this movie at that time were 'in the know' about Fox's plans to sell. They probably got the word right at the last minute when getting ready to secure the budget to the creative team on this project. Even high level executives weren't aware ahead of time of any plans for an acquisition (which were going on long before Dark Phoenix started shooting) and found themselves abruptly let go during the merging process much to the shock of everybody else at Fox.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I'll just leave this here, dated September 2018. Here you’re laying all/most of the blame for Apocalypse on:

Singer was responsible for his movie he directed. He was responsible for everything you see on screen, from costume choices to action style, including part of the story. He's done.

Here you are defending Kinberg because he was “only” the scriptwriter for Apocalypse, not its director:

He doesn't have sole credit for the story that goes into the screenplay. Apocalypse isn't a "written by" Kinberg film. He is a co-writer on the movie who shares credit with THREE other writers who all have input in the final draft according to the credit given. Bryan Singer was right there from the beginning as the script was created. Action is determined by the director and his stunt crew, who visualize how things will look on screen. This is because what's written in script may not actually unfold the same way once sets are constructed and scenes are planned out around and within the sets. How well an action scene is shot is not determined by the screenwriter and the director has full control to change anything about the script to fit their style. Kinberg isn't absolved from contributing to the film's failure, but the director is responsible for the film's outcome because the director controls all aspects of the film making process, from script to post. Apocalypse's problems didn't only stem from script but also decisions made during production and in post.

Not to mention here where you made up a person out of thin air to be the boogyman that supposedly ghost-directed Fan4stic. Well now we know Kinberg caught the directing bug from *that* movie and Apocalypse before it:

No need to believe false Fantastic4 rumors. It was already revealed who took over duties for reshoots and Kinberg was busy alongside Singer working on Apocalypse. You simply choose to be willfully ignorant for obvious reason.

Oh and this one where we should be excited that an X-men movie is finally under a "unified vision" until I guess it isn't because the new narrative is "Kinberg has bosses so Dark Phoenix isn't his unified vision any more."

What fills me with positivity is that we will have an x-men movie under one unified vision rather than several different viewpoints meshed together into one single script. I'm curious to see what Knberg's directing style is like. I've never seen it. I've tired of Singer. Want something different.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think Kinberg only found out it wasn't going to be a two parter the day after it was released. But then he only just found out about the Disney Fox deal the other day too. At least he takes comfort in being able to work on the sequel to Fant4stic, or so he thinks.

 

[SumT]

anyone know any truth to supposed rumor of the movie starting off with a baseball game and then the Shi'ar spaceship landing on the school grounds?

that would have been too good to be true.
this franchise is not about that.
is all about drama and people crying, well Erik mostly

 

[Dark Raven]

that would have been too good to be true.
this franchise is not about that.
is all about drama and people crying, well Erik mostly

A baseball game is the kind of thing I could see happening in an MCU version of X-Men though where it shows you their characters and them having more fun and hanging out.

Rogue in that other baseball scene was wearing the wrong thing to a game. She was dressed more like a day at the beach as she was wearing a bikini and a skimpy top over it.

That could actually be from the same issue that Cyclops fought Storm for leadership of the X-Men.

 

[SumT]

anything with the X-Men together as real FRIENDS and having free time together for more than 30 seconds would be the glory to me.

and yeah, Im sure Marvel will do it quite a few times during the sequels. I just cant wait

 

[Sage2016]

Well it took 2 weeks but my local no longer has Dark Phoenix on their screen list. The final 2 screens were given to Aladdin and Rocketman.

 

[henzINNIT]

The third act change wasn’t even the studio’s call, that was Kinberg. What was studio interference was likely cutting out nearly half a hour of footage and shortening it to under two hours, which resulted in the rushed pacing and that’s the main problem with the movie.

So we're to assume the same studio that gave Kinberg the money and freedom to shoot an entirely new third act later seized control of the project and made further adjustments? Why would we assume that? We already know that the longer rough cut was screened, with the old third act, and that it tested poorly. Is there any reason to think the other changes were studio mandated when it is generally accepted that the biggest change was by Kinberg himself?

The problem with the film isn't rushed pacing. It's much deeper than that. Hell, I've heard plenty of complaints that the film is boring.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I did have to laugh at the armed guards/soldiers having shoulder flashes saying 'MCU' 'Mutant Containment Unit', or 'Mutant Control Unit', I guess, but I found it funny!

 

[Hand Banana]

So we're to assume the same studio that gave Kinberg the money and freedom to shoot an entirely new third act later seized control of the project and made further adjustments? Why would we assume that? We already know that the longer rough cut was screened, with the old third act, and that it tested poorly. Is there any reason to think the other changes were studio mandated when it is generally accepted that the biggest change was by Kinberg himself?

I remember reading that somewhere.

The problem with the film isn't rushed pacing. It's much deeper than that. Hell, I've heard plenty of complaints that the film is boring.

The rushed pacing is what made it boring to a lot of people. The Independent reviews explained it pretty well:

The best superhero films, for example Avengers: Endgame or Logan, pay as much attention to the characterisation as to the visual effects. Audiences care about the relationships between the protagonists. Here, although the young mutant heroes regularly profess love and loyalty to each other, the film has no emotional depth whatsoever. If one of their friends is in mortal danger, these heroes will all pull suitably glum faces for a moment or two but then become quickly distracted by some other business. The filmmakers are far more concerned with serving up spectacle than in exploring their inner feelings. That makes the storytelling increasingly monotonous.

X-Men: Dark Phoenix is a superficial disappointment with nothing fresh to say – review

This guy sums it up.

 

[Detective Conan]

Legendary X-Men Writer Chris Claremont Reacts To Dark Phoenix bombing: “It’s not ideal.”

Its complicated. None of this occurs in a vacuum. ... The film, especially in terms of when it was released and what it was released against, ended up as the third leg of what is actually a quartet of major Marvel releases this year.

“First you had Captain Marvel, then you had Avengers Endgame, then you had Dark Phoenix, and ... Spiderman [Far From Home]. So suddenly it’s boom, boom, boom, boom instead of a single boom, and that makes any analysis of the film and how it related to the original concept and how it related to the film’s original concept significantly more complicated.”
“It’s just that in just sheer weight of numbers, “I think the film that [director Simon Kinberg] ended up making especially given the superb talent at his disposal was a very successful, enjoyable, positive good project. Is it an ideal? No. “I mean, if I wanted to be an idealist, I would say, you know, set me and [Claremont’s colleague John Byrne] down. I’ll write the outline of the screenplay, he’ll write the storyboards and take it from there. But that’s not reality anywhere along the line in LA.”what did X-Men: Dark Phoenix have? It had Sophie. And what did Avengers have? Twenty-eight A-list stars,”

Claremont's vision for how the movies should continue post-DOFP is quite interesting. People should check it out. I agree with how he'd handled the Dark Phoenix cinematically.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[Dark Raven]

I did have to laugh at the armed guards/soldiers having shoulder flashes saying 'MCU' 'Mutant Containment Unit', or 'Mutant Control Unit', I guess, but I found it funny!

For the MCU X-Men film, they need something called the KCU: Kinberg Containment Unit or Kinberg Control Unit. They're the Disney guys who stop him from working on anymore movies.

 

[metaphysician]

Buffy the Vampire Slayer gave us the best Dark Phoenix adaptation of all

Complete with the character being randomly excused later by way of magic phlebotinum so they wouldn't have to grapple with their own prior deeds. *eg*

 

[henzINNIT]

The rushed pacing is what made it boring to a lot of people. The Independent reviews explained it pretty well:

X-Men: Dark Phoenix is a superficial disappointment with nothing fresh to say – review

The un-bolded part of that quote seems like the bigger issue to me. The bit about having 'no emotional depth what-so-ever'. It's even in the title, the film is superficial. It pays lip-service to characters but never makes you care. I don't think it was left on the cutting room floor either.

 

[JP]

Yeah it’s like the film knows what a Dark Phoenix story should have, so it just checks off the boxes rather than build emotional depth to it. Jeans goes to space. She “sacrifices herself” and we’re told how she is brave and almost died and should be dead, even though that never really came across to me in the space scene. Then a scene later she is a psycho murderer cause that’s what’s supposed to happen.

 

[PsylockeBlackWidow]

'X-Men' Franchise Producer Lauren Shuler Donner Hasn't Seen 'Dark Phoenix' Yet

 

[Hand Banana]

The un-bolded part of that quote seems like the bigger issue to me. The bit about having 'no emotional depth what-so-ever'. It's even in the title, the film is superficial. It pays lip-service to characters but never makes you care. I don't think it was left on the cutting room floor either.

Oh, I agree that it only payed lip-service to the character. But I do believe that is indeed an issue of things being left on the cutting room floor, based on the version icekid described. Even the trailers show hints of scenes that explore Jean’s inner feelings which were cut from the final product, such as her contemplating over what she had done in the second trailer(“why did you make me do that”) and her in the third trailer telling Magneto that it feels good when ever she loses control. I remember Sophie going in depth about the latter in an interview many months back.

The filmmakers have been saying for years that they wanted to pull back on spectacle and focus more on character but the final product ended up being the opposite. Even after the release insiders were reporting that’s what they wanted. It’s very strange to me.

 

[SumT]

'X-Men' Franchise Producer Lauren Shuler Donner Hasn't Seen 'Dark Phoenix' Yet

when an old time x-men producer didnt have hype either....
thats all we need to know.

 

[Mutant 77]

Well, contrary to the contamined popular belief, the X-Men movies had always been deeply centered on a group of characters, not a sole character. Fact is, even if THAT specific group which the movies were centered on WASN'T the "classic" X-Men roster you wanted, well, you cannot truly deny the fact that the X-Men movies were focused on the story-arc and the character-arc of a chosen GROUP of characters.

X-Men/X2/The Last Stand were about:

Professor X
Magneto
Wolverine
Jean Grey
Rogue (at least in X1)

First Class/Days of Future Past/Apocalypse/Dark Phoenix were about:

Professor X
Magneto
Mystique
Beast
Jean Grey (in the last two)


Like it or not, you cannot say these movies were NOT character-driven, despite being not focused on the other "X-Men" or the "X-Men" as a battlefield team.

 

[SumT]

so basically only two actual x-men got development in 4 movies.

are we suppose to celebrate that?
a franchise called "X-Men" only developed 2 x-men between 2011 and 2019. mm.......