Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[JP]

They need to just yank it completely.

 

[ILambda]

You know what's funny? Dark Phoenix had aliens coming to earth and posing as government agents "Smith" and "Jones", (chastain and ato essando characters). Those names sure do sound familiar...

 

[Tcmjuk87]

If they really wanted to boost numbers on this, James Corden is the last person they should be using to help promote their trainwreck.

 

[Filmfreak]

Hugh Jackman was part of the ot cast, when people mention the ot cast, he's included in that cast and Hugh himself called themselves as the "originals". That being said, none of the Wolverine solo films have outgrossed X3 in North America and the highest grossing film in the series is dofp which featured the return of the original cast together.

Naturally. They were Wolverine movies, not X-Men movies. Wanting to see other popular X-Men characters is one thing. But thinking the original cast itself outside Jackman brought or would have bring people to theaters is a pretty giant leap. Had there been a succesful movie featuring all the original cast members but no Wolverine, I could understand that argument, but there wasn't.

And Hugh Jackman was in Apocalypse btw.

Right. He was barely in the movie and was only a glimpse of him in the last trailer. Barely anyone in the general audience knew he was going to be in it. Also Apocalypse made more money worldwide. Also it had even worse reviews than The Last Stand that went public weeks before the movie was released.

Personally speaking, I wanted a X5 with the Wolverine. As for McAvoy, Fassbender, Lawrence, they don't bring much attention to the series. First Class didn't open big and was considered an underperformer at the boX office.

First Class had the legacy of The Last Stand and Origins to escape from and a horrible marketing around the movie. People were losing faith in the franchise and the numbers were dropping. The fact that the movie was that good was one of the reasons Days of Future Past was the most successful X-Men movie, as it started winning people over (before losing them again).

Apocalypse could have opened bigger despite the bad reviews. Movies like Aladdin, Origins Wolverine, Fifty Shades, Suicide Squad, BvS, TMNT 2014, Twilight Saga and the Transformers movies didn't a fresh rt rating for people to make them a success, so why should that be the case for Apocalypse and Dark PhoeniX, Xpecially Apocalypse, a sequel to Dofp. There isn't just enough public interest to the First Class cast.

Exactly. Because no Wolverine. Almost all previous movies, for better or worse, focused on him and he is by far the most well-known mutant. Also the marketing was once again poor and the movie looked pretty bland.

Honestly, there was no one in the original cast whose stardom could carry any weight that would have helped the box office numbers. In fact, quite the opposite. Even Turner is a bigger name than Famke now, even though she was far worse in the role.

I think they missed their window of opportunity for an X4 back in 2006 and at some point it was too late. I would have loved to see a bit more of them, even after Days of Future Past but business-wise the days where any of the actors was relevant to Hollywood were long gone.

 

[Frankeh]

Hugh Jackman IS part of the Original Cast. If Days of Future Past won audiences over how come Apocalypse underperformed. They say because the reviews. And yet reviews didn't save First Class because The Last Stand and Origins I guess. And we're back to square one -- Apocalypse was following Days of Future Past. And now Dark Phoenix with a big star from GOT is a big flop. The Last Stand did pretty well despite reviews. But then they say it was a different era for comic book movies. Hmm.

I think Lauren Shuler Donner was right in fighting to mantain the Original Cast and the fact she was cast away for that really sucks.

 

[psylockolussus]

Come on. Wolverine was the one from the original cast who was actually bringing butts in the seats. The only other reason the First Class movies didn't make enough money were poor reviews. If Logan was in them and the movies were as good as the first two in the past timeline, rest assured they would have made far more than any proposed original trilogy cast movie. McAvoy, Lawrence and Fassbender were much much bigger names than anyone else in the present/future timeline (again, besides Jackman) and it surely made much more sense business-wise to not go back to a cast of characters who were in their 70s, 50s or mid 40s.

That being said I would have loved to see one more movie in that timeline and have an actual send-off of those characters other than one scene we got in Day of Future Past. Something that could really atone for The Last Stand. But I guess we neither got this nor a better conclusion to the past timeline. So there's that.

Bigger names that didn't really bring the money at the boX office when it comes to X-Men movies, also those three had their share of other flop movies recently. Victor Frankenstein, Red Sparrow and Assassin's Creed.

If people are interested, they will watch regardless of the reviews, why do you think Margot Robbie is popular as Harley Quinn after 1 DC movie that got really bad reviews.

 

[Filmfreak]

No name in Hollywood can guarantee money in the box office, we all know that. Even the biggest stars proved that at some point with a number of flops. The whole argument is about comparison. If you take Wolverine out of the equation the First Class cast had more chances of success, both because of stardom at the time and because of their age in terms of future investment regarding more movies. It makes far more sense for a studio that wanted to produce a number of movies in the future. You can believe what you want but I think you confuse personal preferences to actual facts.

 

[psylockolussus]

Well I think a X-Men 5 movie featuring the ot cast would have earned more even if it as bad as what we got in 2016. And why do I need to take out the Wolverine for a X-Men 5 Xpecially that character was prominent in X-Men 1 to 4? you just want to say a X-Men 5 would do worse without Hugh and I didn't even suggest a Wolverineless X-Men 5.

 

[Filmfreak]

Box office-wise: Wolverine with the First Class cast > Wolverine with the original cast. That's my whole point. So if you wonder what would be an efortless way for them to make more money in terms of actors and characters that's your answer basically. But Jackman was kind of over the franchise anyway and a poor script is a poor script. I doubt Kinberg would have written a better screenplay for whichever cast, assuming we would have gotten the same crew.

 

[psylockolussus]

Yeah sure. At least Hugh was part of the original cast insteadof serving as a life vest for the first Class films. You might be rightbut at least the worst performing X-Men movie at the box office didn't feature the ot cast.

 

[Frankeh]

Box office-wise: Wolverine with the First Class cast > Wolverine with the original cast. That's my whole point.

Based on what? DOFP? That had Original Cast in it.

Also, again Jackman is original cast.

 

[psylockolussus]

Based on what? DOFP? That had Original Cast in it.

Also, again Jackman is original cast.

we might have missed that a Wolverine movie was released before X-Men 1 or that Hugh didn't start with the original cast for his first X-Men film.

 

[The Guard]

Yeah that's what I meant. But the fact the goverment completely lost their trust in mutants and cut them off all of a sudden doesn't make much sense. There were always good and evil mutants who had done far more terrible things than injure a couple of police officers and military, especially since it happened involuntarily this time around. I can understand the argument that now the "villain" was one of the X-Men but it doesn't change the fact that their change of heart was poorly handled.

I think the point is that they never had a change of heart, or at least, never stopped seeing mutants as a potential threat (nor should they have, given the history of that universe).

Xavier thought humanity had embraced mutants more than they obviously had.

 

[Filmfreak]

Based on what? DOFP? That had Original Cast in it.

we might have missed that a Wolverine movie was released before X-Men 1 or that Hugh didn't start with the original cast for his first X-Men film.

Days of Future Past primarily focused on the First Class cast. Both the movie itself and the marketing. The original cast outside Jackman were secondary characters at best (Stewart) with the majority of them barely even having any dialogues since they were unfortunately there just for the action and high stakes in the movie. I already made an argument on why a younger generation of much bigger actors at the time would boost the box office more so than the old guard. Can you tell me of a reason you think it's not only Jackman/Wolverine who helped raise money in the franchise and it's the original cast as a whole?

Also, again Jackman is original cast.

And again my point is not that a First Class sequel without Wolverine would make more than the original cast. But if Jackman was really an option at the time he could have just been an actual part of the First Class cast and it would have helped far more than what you're proposing. Since he wasn't so keen on returning, though, that proposal makes even less sense.

 

[Filmfreak]

I think the point is that they never had a change of heart, or at least, never stopped seeing mutants as a potential threat (nor should they have, given the history of that universe).

Xavier thought humanity had embraced mutants more than they obviously had.

I can understand that. It's just the way that was shown that didn't feel convincing. All these back and forths every time a mutant helped or harmed someone felt less organic and more plot devicey, in the last couple of movies at least.

 

[Frankeh]

Days of Future Past primarily focused on the First Class cast. Both the movie itself and the marketing. The original cast outside Jackman were secondary characters at best (Stewart) with the majority of them barely even having any dialogues since they were unfortunately there just for the action and high stakes in the movie. I already made an argument on why a younger generation of much bigger actors at the time would boost the box office more so than the old guard. Can you tell me of a reason you think it's not only Jackman/Wolverine who helped raise money in the franchise and it's the original cast as a whole?

You can't really extrapolate them from the film though. They even had individual posters for Original Cast members.

I mean, if we go by that random Fandango poll JLaw's Mystique was the reason most people paid for DOFP, and yet box office plummeted with Apocalypse and then Dark Phoenix which still featured her. So was it really such a great decision to feature more this younger generation of "much bigger" actors?

There's always a convenient excuse, re: the prequels sans DOFP performing either dissappointingly or poorly.

 

[Hand Banana]

My analysis on the story and it’s theme. Spoilers obviously.

Spoiler

 

[psylockolussus]

You can't really extrapolate them from the film though. They even had individual posters for Original Cast members.

I mean, if we go by that random Fandango poll JLaw's Mystique was the reason most people paid for DOFP, and yet box office plummeted with Apocalypse and then Dark Phoenix which still featured her. So was it really such a great decision to feature more this younger generation of "much bigger" actors?

There's always a convenient excuse, re: the prequels sans DOFP performing either dissappointingly or poorly.

well the ot cast had a great response in comic con compare to First Class cast minutes before the ot cast entered the stage.

Also Hugh with the original gang, we saw how each movie from them grossed higher than their precedessors. Which you can't saythe same thing about First Class films and Wolverine solo films. And again why should Hugh have joined the First Class cast when Hugh could have just continued his journey with the ot cast, which featured more X-Men and arent stuck in the past setting.

X5 wasn't made because Kinberg had false admiration for the First Class cast (which resulted in Mystique being insufferable to watch, the never ending going back and forth between Xavier/Erik and Beast's random habit of turning off his physical mutation) and bad vision for the X-Men. The audience could only eat up so many prequels for so long, Xpecially they already went back to the present times and look there was no hype for Dark PhoeniX, a fourth or third X-Men non solo prequel. foX was also cheap and was interested giving Hugh his third Wolverine flick instead of doing another X-Men with the ot cast. Even if Logan was a success, dofp still made a lot more and didn't outgross X3 in North America.

imo this should have been foX's slate post dofp:
X-Men V - 2016 - possible introduction of Tatum's gambit, the ot cast versus the Apocalypse
X-Men siX - 2018 or 2019 - no Darker PhoeniX shenanigans

While Deadpool and the New Mutants should have had direct connections with the previous films. Meaning, we should have gotten some of the ot cast members to appear in their film in cameo or supporting roles. Instead of those films just doing their own thing.

 

[Hand Banana]

I like how this movie trolled fans for two years.

 

[Karl Tanner]

well the ot cast had a great response in comic con compare to First Class cast minutes before the ot cast entered the stage.

Also Hugh with the original gang, we saw how each movie from them grossed higher than their precedessors. Which you can't saythe same thing about First Class films and Wolverine solo films. And again why should Hugh have joined the First Class cast when Hugh could have just continued his journey with the ot cast, which featured more X-Men and arent stuck in the past setting.

X5 wasn't made because Kinberg had false admiration for the First Class cast (which resulted in Mystique being insufferable to watch, the never ending going back and forth between Xavier/Erik and Beast's random habit of turning off his physical mutation) and bad vision for the X-Men. The audience could only eat up so many prequels for so long, Xpecially they already went back to the present times and look there was no hype for Dark PhoeniX, a fourth or third X-Men non solo prequel. foX was also cheap and was interested giving Hugh his third Wolverine flick instead of doing another X-Men with the ot cast. Even if Logan was a success, dofp still made a lot more and didn't outgross X3 in North America.

imo this should have been foX's slate post dofp:
X-Men V - 2016 - possible introduction of Tatum's gambit, the ot cast versus the Apocalypse
X-Men siX - 2018 or 2019 - no Darker PhoeniX shenanigans

While Deadpool and the New Mutants should have had direct connections with the previous films. Meaning, we should have gotten some of the ot cast members to appear in their film in cameo or supporting roles. Instead of those films just doing their own thing.

Actually Logan is a bigger success than DOFP. More or less they made the same amount of money domestically where Fox takes the bigger cut and Logan cost Fox 97 million dollars. DOFP cost them 200 million dollars. In the end Fox profitted more from Logan. Even if we generously take 30% from foreign gross, DOFP gave FOX $36m more from overseas. Domestically Fox earned $3.5m more from DOFP. So in the end 36 + 3.5 = $39.5m more earnings but if we susbtract that 103 million cost differential, Logan made Fox $63.5m more from theatrical releases compared to DOFP.

I don't think the original cast or the first class cast brings anything meaningful to table. As far as the this franchise goes, the Wolverine brand comes first and then the X-Men brand. Other than those two, everything depends on the actual quality of the film and marketing.

 

[Alison Blaire]

The facts are there, there is no excuse that is worth.
The movies with the OT made more money.

 

[Filmfreak]

Twist it or call it as you like but the fact remains that only Jackman/Wolverine legitimately brought money in these movies. The rest were just there, including the younger versions.

 

[Dark Raven]

Kinberg brought plenty of money to these movies. Just look at Dark Phoenix!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

This is page 616.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Twist it or call it as you like but the fact remains that only Jackman/Wolverine legitimately brought money in these movies. The rest were just there, including the younger versions.

Unless you count Ryan Reynolds as being a part of this series.