Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix Skepticism Thread

[YoungBlood]

Feige isn't in charge of the tv shows though is he?

Nope.
If he was then Daredevil and Company would be in Infinity War and the Avengers would have found out that Coulson is still alive.

 

[SumT]

its clear the wall between Marvel Movies and Tv is because of their internal issues. If there wasnt that huge tension between both forces (Ike and Kevin) it would have been a whole different story. or if Kevin was the head of both mediums. He would crossover as much as he could

 

[Kreem Pi]

The X-Men films do not have a kevin feige and maybe thats how they are trying to be different to marvel.

People who work with marvel play by marvels rules, while someone like Mangold can come onboard and say hey can i kill off the X-Men? and FOX will be like yeah sure.

What rules was Shane Black playing by when he pissed fanboys off with his brilliant switcheroo of the Mandarin?

 

[henzINNIT]

What rules was Shane Black playing by when he pissed fanboys off with his brilliant switcheroo of the Mandarin?

The rules that wouldn't back Black wanting a female villain, nor would allow a comic accurate Mandarin because of his questionable character type.

 

[YoungBlood]

The rules that wouldn't back Black wanting a female villain, nor would allow a comic accurate Mandarin because of his questionable character type.

Or alienating box office money from China.

 

[Kreem Pi]

The rules that wouldn't back Black wanting a female villain, nor would allow a comic accurate Mandarin because of his questionable character type.

I would think the latter is just common decency. Who wants to see a Fu Manchu stereotype?

 

[psylockolussus]

I just look how massive the roster of Avengers 3 and how they are being utilized by Marvel for the last three years. And I just think its awesome how they could juggle multiple films in a small period of time.

Iron Man - 8 movies with the same actor up to A3
Hulk - no more solo films but appearing in Thor and Avengers
Cap - at least 2 more films, 9 films total
Widow - perhaps the most developed female Marvel character in the big screen so far
Scarlet - 4 films since A2
Vision - 4 films since A2
Hawkeye - at least 2 more films
Thor - three more films with the same actor
Ant Man - Avengers and perhaps a trilogy featuring his name
Black Panther/Ms Marvel/Dr Strange - a solo trilogy is possible, guaranteed for Avengers
Falcon/War Machine - upgraded to an Avenger and will appear more after 2 to 3 films
Spidey - a trilogy I guess and Avengers films
Wasp - possible Avenger in the making

The only Avenger that they wasted is Quicksilver. And I guess if you count the TV only characters like Daredevil/ Jessica/Luke/Fist/Mockingbird/Hellcat/Black Bolt/Crystal/Medusa/Cloak but still compare that to the staple X-Men members

Wolverine - dead, buried by strangers
Xavier - dead, no other X-Man was there but Logan
Storm/Kurt/Jean/Scott/Hank - stuck in the past, possibly dead post-Logan
Bobby/Marie/Kitty/Lucas - last appearance was in 2014
Emma/Sean - last appearance in 2011
Havok - an after thought of the films
Jubilee - wasted yet again, unlikely to return
Psylocke - most likely a mute again, not even as a X-Woman
Angel - one and done again
Polaris/Clarice - demoted to TV
Dazzler - just a small role
Colossus - only appearing in Deadpool films
Gambit - solo film unlikely to happen soo n

Holy moly!

 

[Rike]

very one-sided comparison

 

[BeholdMe]

very one-sided comparison

I know right smh.

 

[Mad Ones]

I don't think anyone is going to debate the fact that the MCU's episode structure has allowed it to develop more characters, but I don't know what to say to you if you think Wolverine and Xavier haven't been treated properly. That list also doesn't have Magneto and Mystique, and whether you like it or not they have been fleshed out as 3-dimensional characters.

 

[psylockolussus]

Mystique and Magneto aren't the X-Men, they are usually seen as villains first, before a member of the X-Men. Notice how I didn't include Loki/Bucky in that list?

Also, I didn't say Wolverine and Logan weren't developed well. Their ending is just very depressing and it doesn't feel quite right when the other X-Men weren't even there during their last moments.

And it's not one sided. MCU has treated their heroes much better how Fox treated "heroes" such as Psylocke, Angel, Storm, Rogue, Jubilee to name a few... Only to sideline them to characters like Magneto and Mystique and I guess Quicksilver too who aren't even big staples to the actual X-Men team.

 

[Eclipse]

Mystique and Magneto aren't the X-Men, they are usually seen as villains first, before a member of the X-Men. Notice how I didn't include Loki/Bucky in that list?

Also, I didn't say Wolverine and Logan weren't developed well. Their ending is just very depressing and it doesn't feel quite right when the other X-Men weren't even there during their last moments.

And it's not one sided. MCU has treated their heroes much better how Fox treated "heroes" such as Psylocke, Angel, Storm, Rogue, Jubilee to name a few... Only to sideline them to characters like Magneto and Mystique and I guess Quicksilver too who aren't even big staples to the actual X-Men team.

Dear Psylockolussus...I'm sorry but are you aware that Magneto is so much more than an X-Men "villain" (however you define this term)?! If you really believe that it is NOT justified that Magneto is one of the best developed characters in the X-Men franchise, I'm afraid you do not understand the source material created by Chris Claremont at all!

The biggest weakness of all Marvel movies are their weak cliché villains. Singer made sure not to fall into this trap (minus Apocalypse) and to create compelling villains with depth and complexities! But this also means that he has less screen time for other characters. The line between villain and hero in the X-Men comics is super blurry anyway because of its political subtext. Most of the "villains" transition freely between both sides. Claremont for example wrote Mystique also as a freedom fighter for mutant rights being consumed by Destiny's vague knowledge of the future (see X-Treme X-Men).

There are so many different complexities and shades to these characters created over so many years. Can we really not stop repeating this boring cliché language and be happy for a moment that Singer helped to develope a complex new genre for superhero movies?!?!

 

[psylockolussus]

I have enough comics in which Magneto was part of the team... But he remains to be the #1 iconic villain of the X-Men. Also, the fact that he already appeared in 6 films in a starring or supporting role is quite too much especially when the likes of Rogue, Psylocke, Angel, Gambit... You know characters that are seen more as heroes were wasted/sidelined in the movies. Magneto is overdeveloped and has overstayed.

I'd rather take MCU weak villains (as if Apocalypse, Juggernaut, Silver Samurai, Sabretooth, Pierce were that great) if they focus on the actual heroes/the team and not just a handful of characters.

 

[BeholdMe]

Dear Psylockolussus...I'm sorry but are you aware that Magneto is so much more than an X-Men "villain" (however you define this term)?! If you really believe that it is NOT justified that Magneto is one of the best developed characters in the X-Men franchise, I'm afraid you do not understand the source material created by Chris Claremont at all!

The biggest weakness of all Marvel movies are their weak cliché villains. Singer made sure not to fall into this trap (minus Apocalypse) and to create compelling villains with depth and complexities! But this also means that he has less screen time for other characters. The line between villain and hero in the X-Men comics is super blurry anyway because of its political subtext. Most of the "villains" transition freely between both sides. Claremont for example wrote Mystique also as a freedom fighter for mutant rights being consumed by Destiny's vague knowledge of the future (see X-Treme X-Men).

There are so many different complexities and shades to these characters created over so many years. Can we really not stop repeating this boring cliché language and be happy for a moment that Singer helped to develope a complex new genre for superhero movies?!?!

Magneto didnt have to be pivotal in 6 movies, not giving proper treatment and development for the core team just to be developed. He is a great villain but they dont need to take away from whom the movie should focus on the XMen. The movies dont honor the greatness that is Chris Claremont either because Storm under his pen was a masterpiece and had personality and a voice which she is seriously lacking in the movies. If they followed that blueprint Storm would be the stand out because he wrote her brilliantly.

 

[Mad Ones]

The only movie that Magneto didn't deserve focus was Apocalypse. Everyone was mishandled in X3 so it doesn't really count. First Class was pitched as a Magneto origin and a lot of fans wanted that. DOFP was only Fassbender's second movie.

 

[Eclipse]

I have enough comics in which Magneto was part of the team... But he remains to be the #1 iconic villain of the X-Men. Also, the fact that he already appeared in 6 films in a starring or supporting role is quite too much especially when the likes of Rogue, Psylocke, Angel, Gambit... You know characters that are seen more as heroes were wasted/sidelined in the movies. Magneto is overdeveloped and has overstayed.

I'd rather take MCU weak villains (as if Apocalypse, Juggernaut, Silver Samurai, Sabretooth, Pierce were that great) if they focus on the actual heroes/the team and not just a handful of characters.

my point was, that I do not think that Singer had any interest in reproducing your black and white "villain" and "heroes" talk.

Magneto is as central to the X-Men as Xavier. I wouldn't want to miss a single minute of screen time!

 

[Eclipse]

Magneto didnt have to be pivotal in 6 movies, not giving proper treatment and development for the core team just to be developed. He is a great villain but they dont need to take away from whom the movie should focus on the XMen. The movies dont honor the greatness that is Chris Claremont either because Storm under his pen was a masterpiece and had personality and a voice which she is seriously lacking in the movies. If they followed that blueprint Storm would be the stand out because he wrote her brilliantly.

I agree, Storm's treatment in this series so far is horrible. No excuse for that. I liked her in X2 though but everything else was such a waste and X-Men Apocalypse was borderline offensive...

 

[marcvader]

As a former reader of the X-Men comics. I was mostly attracted by the main protagonists of the book which for the most part were the core members of the team. The Xavier/Magneto relationship was not always the focus in the books and thus I wish the X-Men films would now start to focus on and develop the team of different characters and not just what would seem to be Xavier/Magneto and recently Raven centric films.

 

[BeholdMe]

The only movie that Magneto didn't deserve focus was Apocalypse. Everyone was mishandled in X3 so it doesn't really count. First Class was pitched as a Magneto origin and a lot of fans wanted that. DOFP was only Fassbender's second movie.

My point is its to much focus on him when the XMen's rogue gallery is extensive he shouldnt have more of a role then the XMen in more movies 1-2 yea thats fine. I honestly dont care that DOFP was Fassbender 2nd film the focus needs to shift which is why news of the 3 returning did make me upset. They have given us enough of Magneto(good actor or not) him and Raven need to retire they do not need to be in every single XMovie getting more development then the XMen not named Wolverine.

I agree, Storm's treatment in this series so far is horrible. No excuse for that. I liked her in X2 though but everything else was such a waste and X-Men Apocalypse was borderline offensive...

Its tragic lol. I agree about Apocalypse so much promise with them being on her stomping grounds and they did nothing with it other than her being a pickpocket. This franchise needs to do a better job with prioritizing the other XMen now that development doesnt need to be to Mags or Raven again which is what Im hoping for with DP that again the focus shifts truly this time not them just saying that is the case.

 

[BeholdMe]

As a former reader of the X-Men comics. I was mostly attracted by the main protagonists of the book which for the most part were the core members of the team. The Xavier/Magneto relationship was not always the focus in the books and thus I wish the X-Men films would now start to focus on and develop the team of different characters and not just what would seem to be Xavier/Magneto and recently Raven centric films.

Exactly,I agree with you here.

 

[Mad Ones]

The films developed Xavier and Magneto because they are spokespeople for the ideological beliefs that give these movies dimension and gravitas. They need to figure out how to do this work with the X-men team. Most characters are treated as "followers" when the franchise is interested in "leaders." Reading a few comics would show them that the X-men as a team have a lot to offer. A lot of great X-men stories and dynamics are structured like a soap opera, and these movies can't seem to adapt something so episodic.

 

[Mad Ones]

My point is its to much focus on him when the XMen's rogue gallery is extensive he shouldnt have more of a role then the XMen in more movies 1-2 yea thats fine. I honestly dont care that DOFP was Fassbender 2nd film the focus needs to shift which is why news of the 3 returning did make me upset. They have given us enough of Magneto(good actor or not) him and Raven need to retire they do not need to be in every single XMovie getting more development then the XMen not named Wolverine.

I don't disagree, but a lot of fans (including me) wanted to see more Fassbender after First Class set him up. He worked really well in DOFP, but not in Apocalypse (imo of course). I agree that they need to step back now.

 

[Eclipse]

Its tragic lol. I agree about Apocalypse so much promise with them being on her stomping grounds and they did nothing with it other than her being a pickpocket. This franchise needs to do a better job with prioritizing the other XMen now that development doesnt need to be to Mags or Raven again which is what Im hoping for with DP that again the focus shifts truly this time not them just saying that is the case.

I also hope we can finally develop other X-Men! But I also do not have a problem with many of the things that have been developed in the last couple of years. I love X1, X2, First Class, Days of Future Past, and Logan. These are amazing movies! I also don't share the common anger over Mystique...

I find Magneto so bloody compelling. Seeing Magneto finally become ruler of Genosha is something I really want to experience on screen. It does not have to happen next year already but developing his character further and further is just so much fun for me (if they do not repeat themselves again like they have done in "X:A"). However, yes I agree that they can make him part of the choir now. We know who Magneto is. Not need to give him more time than necessary. It is time for other characters to shine but maybe they can shine while Magneto starts a mutant revolution in Genosha?!?! Storm and Magneto together freeing enslaved mutants maybe? ;-)

 

[BeholdMe]

The films developed Xavier and Magneto because they are spokespeople for the ideological beliefs that give these movies dimension and gravitas. They need to figure out how to do this work with the X-men team. Most characters are treated as "followers" when this movie is interested in "leaders." Reading a few comics would show them that the X-men as a team have a lot to offer.

Yea and that was accomplished with the first two films it does not need to be rehashed every movie and thats not a good enough reason to keep bringing Magneto into every movie. That wasnt the only storyline the comics focused on so the films need to change it up or it can be mentioned without him having a prominent role in the movies. As I said he isnt the only villain the XMen have that have different views with Xavier so its just no excuse. I do agree as team the XMen have alot to offer that dynamic different memebers have which is why I want Ororo/Jean sisterly bond is touched on as well as them continue to develop the relationship between Scott and Jean. Make the audience invest in this group as a family.

 

[Mad Ones]

The first trilogy hinted that Xavier and Magneto had a complicated and interesting history together. I don't fault the filmmakers for filling this out and it worked wonderfully in First Class and DOFP. Apocalypse was a transition movie was just blah throughout. Hopefully that transition is over now.

Why do I get the feeling that the movie is going to start with Genosha already established with Magneto leading. That would be a missed opportunity.