You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 10

[The Shape]

"Batman is the nation’s all-time favourite superhero - but Superman would win in a fight, a study found."


Sure...

 

[OutOfBoose]

Batman forever.

Guardians of the Galaxy - from gutter to top 20.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

This guy who has two failed movie, and another version of the character appears in one episode of a low rated MCU connected show

20. Ghost Rider

Takes a higher spot than characters like Green Arrow or Daredevil, who lead their own modern successful shows. Really?

 

[The Joker]

Adam West was considered the best version of Batman? Nice Also love the fact that The Penguin was up there with The Joker and Luthor. Always felt Pengy had become underrated in the last couple of decades.

 

[BatLobster]

The essay is good overall but at the risk of sounding like a whiner, this line right here: 'Yes, they’re mostly a bunch of smart alec-y white dudes (which the MCU is finally starting to change)"

...you just had to race bait, just a little, eh? Couldn't let that go?

Yeah, I agree that was unnecessary in the context of this essay. That's not to say there's no room for an examination of the socio-political aspects (intended or unintended) or superhero films, cause there is. But it felt beside the point FCH was making.

I want to see Infinity War again at some point. It was a lot to take in. The issue I have with it is one I have with many Marvel films. While I'm sitting there watching it, it's an enjoyable experience and I am entertained. I feel like I got my money's worth, and my friends and I have a nice out at the movies. It should end there, right? The problem for me is when praise becomes overboard, and it waters down the criteria for what a good film is supposed to be.

The MCU films are great at being what they are, and that's absolutely worthy of praise. But a film like Infinity War is something of anomaly. It doesn't really follow too many of the filmmaking 101 rules. There is no character arc to speak of (and no, Thanos does not have one). There may be a theme hiding somewhere in there about the morality of trading lives to save lives but it's not something that the movie seems to make any real effort to drive home in any meaningful way.

In a lot of ways, the major take home from this movie for me is Marvel basically saying, "Yeah...we went there." Only, they didn't really go there. That's hard for me to ignore, as much as I enjoyed the ride. I ultimately didn't feel the weight they were trying to drive home at the end. I'm fine acknowledging that this is the first half of a two part movie, and the second half of the story may bring things into focus. But they also very consciously chose not to call this movie "Part 1", so I think it's fair game to evaluate it as a self-contained entity.

On the flip side, I finally saw Black Panther and I thought it was pretty fantastic. Probably a top 3 MCU film for me. Good story, good characters, imaginative world building, a great hero/villain dynamic, and something to say thematically. It also got the humor balance right, for my tastes.

 

[Iceman]

Adam West was considered the best version of Batman? Nice Also love the fact that The Penguin was up there with The Joker and Luthor. Always felt Pengy had become underrated in the last couple of decades.

I love Penguin. In recent external media both the Arkham and Gotham versions were great.

 

[Brother Jack]

The MCU films are great at being what they are, and that's absolutely worthy of praise. But a film like Infinity War is something of anomaly. It doesn't really follow too many of the filmmaking 101 rules. There is no character arc to speak of (and no, Thanos does not have one). There may be a theme hiding somewhere in there about the morality of trading lives to save lives but it's not something that the movie seems to make any real effort to drive home in any meaningful way.

I would disagree there. Not every character has one (Steve Rogers is probably the biggest oversight in that regard) and the arcs that are there are fairly small, but there is a sense of trajectory with several of them, that they are different at the end of the film than at the beginning. Thor is probably the most obvious, going on a comeback journey to rebuild himself and enact revenge. But then you have smaller things like Strange changing from a willingness to sacrifice others to giving up the time stone to save them, and Stark's dynamic with Peter wherein Peter is officially christened an Avenger, and [BLACKOUT]whose death is Tony's worst fear becoming reality[/BLACKOUT].

 

[Shikamaru]

I loved Infinity War on my first viewing, but Thanos' motivations make no sense after I thought about it. I'm hoping the sequel can clear things up or at worst that it doesn't hurt my enjoyment of the movie, which is my big worry about seeing it a second time.

Spoiler

If his problem is overpopulation, why doesn't he just use the Gauntlet to create more resources? He literally has no reason to kill anyone after getting all six stones. Maybe the idea is he's corrupt with power and is just rationalizing his actions but the movie plays his intentions as kinda genuine (again, need a second viewing).

I'm also confused how overpopulation can be a 'universal' problem. The universe is constantly expanding, has Thanos seen all of it? Did he use the Gauntlet on species with scarce numbers, and if so why? Lastly if we believe there are infinite universes, a species can in theory live forever if they just find a way to send the species to an uninhabitable world everytime the numbers get too big. I know it might sound nitpicky but the Russos talked about how they wanted the cosmic science to be believable, so I think it's fair game to say this.

Lastly, why didn't Thanos do this earlier? I don't think they mentioned why he only started collecting the stones this late (besides Infinity War being supposed to come out 2018, unfortunately). Again, I might need a second viewing for that.

Also I thought the Earth team (Cap, Widow, T'Challa, etc.) didn't have as much presence as the cosmic team. I adored Iron Man, Thor, Doctor Strange, Spider-Man and the Guardians in this. But compared to the rest, the others felt a bit 'just there'.

 

[BatLobster]

I would disagree there. Not every character has one (Steve Rogers is probably the biggest oversight in that regard) and the arcs that are there are fairly small, but there is a sense of trajectory with several of them, that they are different at the end of the film than at the beginning. Thor is probably the most obvious, going on a comeback journey to rebuild himself and enact revenge. But then you have smaller things like Strange changing from a willingness to sacrifice others to giving up the time stone to save them, and Stark's dynamic with Peter wherein Peter is officially christened an Avenger, and [BLACKOUT]whose death is Tony's worst fear becoming reality[/BLACKOUT].

Strange did have the appearance of an arc, but it's iffy to me. He saw all the possible outcomes and knew that was the only one in which they won was the one where he gave up the stone. So...I don't know, his decision at the end feels like something you'd expect at the culmination of a proper character arc, but it doesn't really feel like one to me.

I wouldn't really consider Thor as having as an arc either. It's definitely a journey where he goes from A to B, but it feels more like a pretty straight line to me.

I'll give you the film has a vague sense of trajectory and the characters/universe is obviously in a different place at the end, but to me it just feels like stuff just happens and that this movie's greatest feat is pulling off this massive juggling act rather than actually telling a good story.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the hell out of a movie that is structurally weak. There is clearly plenty to enjoy in Infinity War- engaging world-building, great character interactions, a great villain characterization that creates a sense of stakes (even if the motivation doesn't fully make sense), ridiculous scope. For me, it just helps to evaluate Infinity War through the lens of a TV mid-series finale or second to last episode, rather than a movie. That's just what it feels like for me. I'm then able to appreciate it more for what it is, which is something pretty unique and remarkable.

 

[shauner111]

I agree. I hope it will all come together when we see the next installment.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

The Battle Between Chaos and Order in ‘The Dark Knight’ Trilogy

 

[The Joker]

The Battle Between Chaos and Order in ‘The Dark Knight’ Trilogy

That was damn good.

 

[Ryan]

That was a really good video. Thanks for sharing that!

 

[Shikamaru]

BatLobsterRises, what do you think of the argument that Thanos was the actual main character of the movie, while the Avengers were meant to be the antagonists until Part 2 where it will be vice-versa?

My problems with Thanos' motivation aside, he does encounter multiple opportunities for change and doesn't take them. If we look at the movie that way, it's a complete story.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

I guess someone's gonna start the dreaded TDK vs IW thread soon.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541851

 

[The Joker]

^ LOL I am surprised it took this long to appear.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I voted The Dark Knight anyway. t:

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I did not vote. Someone should change the poll to be just these two choices:

• The Dark Knight
• Other

 

[Greens]

I voted The Dark Knight anyway. t:

Same.

 

[DoomRulz]

I saw IW a second time last night. The ending made me cry even harder.

 

[Kane52630]

edit

 

[shauner111]

I don't see what's emotional about the ending, when we know it's just schmuck bait. It's a cool ending don't get me wrong, but I feel nothing from it because we know it's not really concrete.

I saw it a second time last night and I still have it at 3.5/5. So 70 percentish. That first half hour is so good. Once again, I felt the Dinklage and Wakanda battles REALLY brought the movie down for me. It went from "this could be TDK of the Marvel movies" to "oh here we go again...a hundred CGI creatures battle the heroes with quips after every dramatic beat".

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

MessiahDecoy123 is really pressed.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541889

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't see what's emotional about the ending, when we know it's just schmuck bait. It's a cool ending don't get me wrong, but I feel nothing from it because we know it's not really concrete.

Not that there aren't cases of predictability in the MCU, but I don't think it's fair to say that about IW. I mean, we only know it isn't concrete because we know what happens in the comic and that there's another movie coming out. If you don't know either of those things (and apparently there are people who don't), the ending leaves you in both shock and tears.

Even if you do know what's coming next, you have no idea [BLACKOUT]how Tony and Co. will undo the damage.[/BLACKOUT] It looks impossible in the context of the movie, which is what makes it a great cliffhanger.

 

[shauner111]

Not that there aren't cases of predictability in the MCU, but I don't think it's fair to say that about IW. I mean, we only know it isn't concrete because we know what happens in the comic and that there's another movie coming out. If you don't know either of those things (and apparently there are people who don't), the ending leaves you in both shock and tears.

Even if you do know what's coming next, you have no idea [BLACKOUT]how Tony and Co. will undo the damage.[/BLACKOUT] It looks impossible in the context of the movie, which is what makes it a great cliffhanger.

Sure for the second part. But there are movies announced for a lot of these heroes. As well as some common sense that sequels are in the works for Guardians, Spidey, Dr Strange, Black Panther based on the success of their previous movies. So any fan with half a brain should immediately not buy what's happening. If you can't buy into what's happening based on your knowledge of the future, then it baffles me as to how a person can have an emotional reaction like getting choked up or something. Other than a "oh wow!" I just can't see it. An individual would have to be COMPLETELY unaware of the MCU slate and not really thinking beyond what's in front of them.