You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 10

[Shikamaru]

I heard of people who choked up and were surprised to hear [BLACKOUT]everyone is coming back.[/BLACKOUT] It kinda makes sense. Not everyone keeps up with announcements the way fans do. Honestly, I even know fans who said they gave up on keeping up will all the MCU announcements since there's so many of them.

 

[BatLobster]

My thing is, even if you were just a casual filmgoer who hasn't seen all the Marvel movies, the moment Spider-Man and Black Panther turned to dust, I still don't see how anyone could even for a split second think it's permanent. Unless you're totally living under a rock, it's common knowledge that Spider-Man just had a successful relaunch and Black Panther (which is still playing in some theaters) was just a huge sensation. It's plainly obvious that there's a 0% chance their deaths can have any lasting impact when it makes no sense to assume they just won't get sequels. IMO, that undercut what they were going for. I just think they took it a bit too far. I do like the idea of keeping the original Avengers as the sole survivors for the next installment, so we'll see how that pays off. If that turns out great, maybe I'll warm more to the decision in retrospect.

I can certainly understand the ending having impact for people who were like 8 when Iron Man came out and are 18 now, and the MCU has been a huge part of their whole cinematic experience so far. I can understand being a "mark" for the ending and suspending disbelief a bit and getting caught up in the experience. But the older fanboys who have been around the block, talking about how "shook" they are by IW just reeks a bit of trying to be a part of the pop culture trend and I just don't buy it. All of that chatter made me go into IW thinking they were really going to "go there", and it killed my experience a bit.

And Shika, as for Thanos being the main character- I agree, I definitely think he's the main character. However I don't believe the movie really gave him an arc. Sure, he has to make a hard choice/sacrifice to accomplish his goal, but the movie never really gives me any reason to believe he was ever going to make any other choice. His determination, drive and belief in the rightness of what he's doing are pretty much his main features from frame 1, and nothing changes there throughout the film. The film feels kind of static as a result. Things happen, major events occur, but I really don't think a single character undergoes a true character arc.

There's nothing at all wrong with loving IW...it has a lot to offer, but I think we should all be able to acknowledge that this movie has much more in common with a big "event" comic than it does with traditional cinematic storytelling. I think people who are huge fans of the film should embrace that rather than pretend it's something it's not.

 

[Shikamaru]

It's concrete in the sense we only know what will happen due to outside information about which movies are coming out and how the comic goes. To the characters in the movie, they have no reason to think there isn't a 0% chance anyone will ever come back, which makes their reactions (particularly Peter's) all the more disturbing. Plus the fact I'm in their heads and got to know them over the last 10 years contributes enormously to this.

And even though we as viewers know what will happen, we still have no way of knowing how. The suspense is more about wondering how in the hell they'll get out of this when all logic tells you they can't, which is common with serialized stories. It's no different than, say, mystery films.

As for Thanos, characters don't necessarily need an arc to tell a story, they just need an opportunity for change and whether or not they take it informs the viewers about who they are as people. Characters like Iron Man and Spider-Man are all about change, but others like Cap and Thanos are more about refusing to change (just in general, not talking about just IW). I would say Thanos has a few instances where he's given opportunities for change that make him hesitant to keep going (i.e.Gamora), and as others pointed out he loses something/someone everytime he collects a stone. Still, ultimately he chooses reject his opportunity for change and that makes him compelling at least on a performance and personality level. I do think we don't get in Thanos' head enough to make me buy his motivation, but as far as the movie goes I don't think it missed giving him an opportunity for change.

 

[Brother Jack]

It's concrete in the sense we only know what will happen due to outside information about which movies are coming out and how the comic goes. To the characters in the movie, they have no reason to think there isn't a 0% chance anyone will ever come back, which makes their reactions (particularly Peter's) all the more disturbing. Plus the fact I'm in their heads and got to know them over the last 10 years contributes enormously to this.

Yeah. I knew intellectually that they were coming back, but that didn't dampen the empathy I felt for the characters, especially the ones left behind. And the history is vital to that. In the case of characters like Steve and Rocket (and Okoye), they were losing people they had already lost before.

 

[Shikamaru]

Agreed. Actually, I think that's the best way to put it. I know intellectually but it doesn't take away with how I feel emotionally.

Also, I'll say that Marvel's got significantly better in the feels department for me. Guardians 2, Homecoming, BP and IW all hit me emotionally in at least one big scene. It's hard to find emotional moments before their 2017 films, imo.

 

[Ryan]

I know I'm late to the game but my initial feeling is Infinity War was a real masterpiece of big blockbuster film making. How they had so many charactesrs with so many interesting subplots that culminated in one giant conclusion was really amazing. After seeing it, the DC fan in me really reflected on how poorly their recent efforts have been in even telling a single good story in their films. Is it Dark Knight level? No. I've always been a fan of less is more and its still amazing to think of what the Dark Knight was able to pull off without all the cgi and with a purple suit nutjob. Then again, both films to me are in such different categories with Infinity war just being a great big popcorn movie and for that I think its an amazing accomplishment and the best Marvel film I've seen in ages.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Death of Superman movie looks ugly. Not uglier than the rest of the animated DC52 stuff, which are mostly ugly.

Wonder Woman being beat down by Doomsday is like a middle finger aimed toward how well she held herself against that abominable creature in BvS, which I thought was one of the rare fine things that awful 2016 movie did.

Oh man, I can see how it will start the "It encourages violence against women" cries, when we see Doomsday beat all of the Justice League clearly consisting of mostly men.

 

[Filmfan93]

Finally got the whole trilogy on Blu-Ray, after years of collecting the films individualy on DVD and the whole trilogy on DVD with the artbook, too.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

This continued New 52 animated universe should be scrapped. It’s not terrible or anything, but it’s just there. Nothing stands out about it.

I’d much rather they make movies with the DCAU instead, or just a more traditional continuity in general.

 

[Shikamaru]

Do they still make films in the New 52 animated universe? That's just sad. The comics already got rid of most of the New 52 two years ago. Only reason I can see the animated films not doing the same is if they're out of touch, stubborn, or both.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

It's cheaper to use the same designs/backgrounds etc. Much easier to re-use the same stock than change up the art style for every film (like they used to do).

I think James Tucker is pushing his own 'continuity' and it'll only stop when WB become unhappy with the numbers.

 

[The Shape]

They should make some animated films based on DC's Rebirth initiative. There have were some excellent stories that came out of that featuring various characters.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

By the time they get those out, DC will probably have rebooted again anyway.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Isn't the New 52 the only real reboot? Previous events kept the general continuity of things, with some changes made to characters.

 

[The Shape]

Rebirth was a reboot of sorts, but mostly to clean up some of the mess New52 made of things and to bring some characters back to their original states/continuities.

Thankfully, DC Comics haven't been as bad (or unsuccessful) as Marvel comics in terms of their reboot initiatives.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Marvel doing their soft reboot of sorts helped me enjoying the idea that I don't follow what they publish anymore.

 

[DoomRulz]

They should make some animated films based on DC's Rebirth initiative. There have were some excellent stories that came out of that featuring various characters.

I agree. Hopefully they get rid of Jason O'Mara as Batman while they're at it. He's so boring and flat.

Speaking of which, I just watched Suicide Squad: Hell to Pay. Fantastic film, but Christian Slater as Deadshot was bleh. I want Neil McDonough behind that mic next time.

 

[titansupes]

Patton Oswalt just posted this TDK Joker theory on his Facebook page:

I’ve always liked the theory that Heath Ledger’s Joker in Christopher Nolan’s DARK KNIGHT is a war veteran suffering PTSD. His referencing a “truckload of soldiers” getting blown up, his ease with military hardware, and his tactical ingenuity and precision planning all feel like an ex-Special Forces soldier returned stateside and dishing out payback. I love films that contain enough thought and shading to sustain post-screening theorizing like this.

But I just re-watched THE DARK KNIGHT, and another wrinkle came to mind about The Joker.

What if he’s not only ex-military, but ex-military intelligence?

Specifically — interrogation?

He seems to be very good at the kind of mind-****ery that sustained, professional interrogation requires. His boast about how “I know the squealers” when he sees one. The way he adjusts his personality and methods depending on who he’s talking to, and knowing EXACTLY the reaction he’ll get: mocking Gamble’s manhood; invoking terror to Brian, the “false” Batman; teasing the policeman’s sense of loyalty to his fallen, fellow cops; digging into Gordon’s isolation; appealing to Harvey Dent’s hunger for “fairness.” He even conducts a “reverse interrogation” with Batman when he’s in the box at the police station — wanting to see how “far” Batman will go, trying to make him break his “one rule.” He constantly changes his backstory (and thus who he is). To Gamble and his henchmen, he’s an abused child (figuring that they were also the products of abuse and neglect). To Rachel, he’s a man mourning a tragic love — something she’s also wrestling with.

In the end, he ends up trying to mind-**** an entire city — and the city calls his bluff. Or is that what he wanted all along? He plummets to his seeming death, laughing like a child. And when he’s rescued by Batman, the one individual he couldn’t manipulate or break, he’s blissful and relieved (and, visually, turned on his head). Even the language he uses when saying goodbye to Batman — describing their relationship as an “irresistible force meeting an immovable object” — is the kind of thing an interrogator would say, ruefully, about a fruitless session.

It didn’t matter how he got those scars, turns out.

(*As Cody Glive points out, in a comment below, The Joker also “directs” Batman’s interrogation of him, like an instructor with a newbie. “Never start with the head, the victim gets all fuzzy.” Can’t believe I missed that. Thanks!)

(And I ALSO just realized — The Joker uses The Russian’s dogs against him, and later sics them on Batman. Just like the pictures from Abu Ghraib of the prisoners being terrified by dogs).

 

[Brother Jack]

I have no clue if that was intentional (probably not), but it fits. It speaks to how Joker is able to get under everyone's skin in a reptilian, serpentine way constantly moving and leaning into his prey's weaknesses. I don't think he ever planned for the ferries not to blow up, though. The moment when they don't is the only time you ever see the human being underneath the persona. And I think he was at his most honest with Batman. I always thought that if he had gotten the chance to tell his scar story to Batman it would've been true one.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

http://variety.com/2018/film/news/c...k-knight-trilogy-more-than-batman-1202808441/

Christopher Nolan may have left Gotham City behind. But in a wide-ranging two-hour talk at the Cannes Film Festival on Saturday, the director offered a unique take on his Dark Knight Trilogy.

“To me, each film is a different genre,” Nolan said, about the movies starring Christian Bale as Batman. “They tend to be defined by the villain.”

Nolan explained that he saw 2005’s “Batman Begins” as a straightforward origins story. “The villain (Liam Neeson’s Henri Ducard) is an appropriate adversary,” Nolan said. “He’s a mentor-turned-enemy.” Next, came the second movie in 2008 with Heath Ledger. “‘The Dark Knight’ for me was always a crime drama in the mold of a Michael Mann film. The Joker was a terrorist, an agent of chaos set loose.” Finally, in 2012’s the grand finale, “The Dark Knight Rises,” co-starring Tom Hardy, Nolan envisioned “this historical epic. Bane as a militarist foe helped that.”

Interestingly enough, Nolan didn’t necessarily see himself launching a “Batman” franchise, when he took the job at Warner Bros. 13 years ago. “We hadn’t planned on doing a sequel,” Nolan said. “So shifting genres and the nature of the antagonist felt the way to take the audience on a journey and tell them something different about Bruce Wayne.”

Nolan admitted that he approached the comic-book world through a different lens, as a noir-thriller. “Yes, it’s a superhero, but it’s based on ideas of guilt, fear, these strong impulses that the character has,” Nolan said. “Bruce Wayne doesn’t have any super powers other than extraordinary wealth. But really, he’s just someone who does a lot of push-ups. In that sense, he’s very relatable and human. I think that’s why I gravitated towards it.”

When asked if his “Batman” paid homage to James Bond, Nolan admitted a connection. “We mercilessly pillaged from the James Bond films for certain aspects,” Nolan said, adding that they wanted to make him as compelling as 007. He noted how Gotham’s chief inventor Lucius Fox is similar to Bond’s Agent Q, who has a closet full of gadgets. “But I think if I made my version of James Bond, ‘Inception’ is far more guilty of that than ‘The Dark Knight,’” Nolan said.

Nolan is visiting the Cannes Film Festival — for the first time — for the premiere of a 70 mm print of Stanley Kubrick’s “2001: A Space Odyssey,” which screened on Friday. “Films that are made in an analog way ought to be presented in an analog way whenever possible,” Nolan said.

Nolan spent much of his talk explaining why he preferred shooting on film instead of digital. “Film still stands as the best analogy for the way the eye sees,” he said. “For my purposes, I find it to be the most immersive and emotionally involving tool for drawing the audience into the story.”

Nolan first saw “2001” at the age of 7, in London with his dad, after it had be re-released on the big screen following the success of 1977’s “Star Wars.” “I think what I’ve carried about that experience as far as my own films is really just a sense that films can be anything,” Nolan said. “What Kubrick did in 1968, he simply refused to acknowledge that there were any rules you had to play by in terms of narrative.”

That was a lesson that he carried with him throughout his career. “It’s incumbent on us to push whatever boundaries we can and not be beholden to the theoretical rules,” Nolan said.

His 2000 indie breakout hit “Memento” proved that. “It’s often referred to as a non-linear film, and it’s not,” Nolan said. “It’s intensely linear, but it runs backwards. For that reason, you couldn’t eliminate a scene, you couldn’t change the order. I had to do that in the script stage.”

Nolan gave credit to his wife, Emma Thomas, who produces all his films. “Emma is my longest and closest collaborator,” he said. “It’s great to be able to work with people who don’t have an agenda other than helping make the best films you can. It’s surprising how difficult it is to forge those relationships.”

Another family member who has doubled as a co-worker has been his brother, Jonathan. They wrote much of The Dark Knight Trilogy in rooms — or “in the back of cars, boats, planes” — together. “‘Interstellar’ was a project [Jonathan] had written for Steven Spielberg many years before,” Nolan said. “I took that screenplay and combined it with ideas of my own while he was doing other things.”

Nolan grew up wanting to direct, but he majored in another subject in college. “I studied English because that was the academic subject I was best at,” Nolan said. “What I found when I studied it, it greatly informed my filmmaking process, my writing process. I began to become at ease with the literary concepts that underline criticism.” When he was younger, he struggled with the concept of authorial intent not lining up with a reader’s interpretation. “In studying English literature, storytellers grasp evocative symbols,” Nolan said. “They do have … subconscious layers of resonation. That is something I needed to learn and get on board with.”

Nolan described his style as a director. He doesn’t like to employ a second unit because he prefers to shoot every scene himself — even if it’s a quick shot of an actor’s hand. “There’s performance in those gestures,” he said. On movies where he had to divide up those scenes, “it always bothered me afterwards,” he said. “If I’m the director, I have to be shooting all the shots that go into a film.”

He also doesn’t use a common prop in Hollywood. “I don’t use a monitor on the set,” Nolan said. “I stay by the camera. I want to see where things are in a three-dimensional space.”

 

[DoomRulz]

I love that man.

 

[Ryan]

Mercifully season 5 will be the last season of Gotham.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

When I see clips of that show I refuse to watch, the hate toward it seem exaggerated. Some clips feel like they share Shumacher movies quality of stupid nonsense, without his idea for a visual flare for a superhero.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Well I love it and I'm glad it got one final year. It's a wonderful blend of Burton, Schumacher and Nolan, with bonkers storytelling and a true sense of fun.

I've always viewed it as an 'elseworlds' take on the mythos, anyway.

 

[The Joker]

Mercifully season 5 will be the last season of Gotham.

Good riddance.